Wireless Router Using Two Different Protocols at the Same Time?

I'm about to get TWC internet and am looking into getting a wireless router to avoid the extra charge for wireless if I went with their solution. This is probably a silly question, but just to make sure, if a router is B/G/N, is it able to send N signals at the same time as G signals? By this I mean that my laptop is N compatible but my roommates have wireless cards that only support up to G. Would the router operate at a maximum of G speeds to allow everyone to use wireless and would not operate under N, or would these routers be able to work at both G and N protocols so that those with an N wireless card benefit from the added speed and signal strength and those with G wireless cards still be able to use wireless? Thanks. And if possible, what B/G/N router would you recommend around $75 max?

 

That's how it works.

A dual band router can do that.

I haven't found a dual band router for under $100, so if your limit is $75, you'll just have to buy an 802.11n router and be happy with 802.11g speeds. Check eBay for used dual band routers; maybe you'll get lucky and find one close to your limit. As far as brands, I prefer D-Link. I don't know if there's anything available for $75, so you'll have to google and look for prices.

 

Sorry Keg, but you're mis-stating the ability of a Dual-Band Router. While it's true that a DBN Router will do it, a Single Band N Router set to Mixed Wireless Mode will do it just as well. All N Routers have the ability to transmit either N only or A only for the 5ghz band, B,G or N Only or Mixed mode (which is all 4 standards - A,B, G, and N), if you have more than one type of Wireless Network device. The only problem is that the network is limited by the slowest adapter, so for example if your adapter is a G Standard and you're running with an N Router, that device will only see G speeds when the Router is set to Mixed mode.

Dual-Band N gives you the ability to access both the 2.4ghz and 5ghz frequency bands separately and independently, each with its own Wireless Mode Settings and SSID. Although Single Band N Routers use both frequencies for MIMO technology (overlapping for increased range and signal) they can only access the 2.4ghz frequency, which also happens to be the broadcast frequency for Wireless B and G. The 5ghz band is only currently used for Wireless N and Wireless A.

So, in answer to the poster's original question, the answer is Yes - if you have either a Single or Dual-Band Router, you'll have the ability to connect systems with both G and N devices. In your case though, since it's you that has the N adapter and your friends who are still in the slow lane, Keg's Dual-Band suggestion is actually worth considering, though you'll never find one for $75. The advantage of having a DBN Router is that you could use the 5ghz band all for yourself, while your friends are routed over the 2.4ghz band using their G devices. Since the frequencies don't combine, they don't interfere, and there's no traffic slowdown when all of you are on at the same time.

If you can't afford it, a Single Band N Router will work just fine, but remember for your friends to access it, the Wireless Mode must be set to Mixed, and not any of the "Only" modes. This will easily enable all of you to connect at the various standards you're using, though I agree with Keg in that even finding an Single Band N Router for that kind of money isn't realistic. You might be able to find a used one on Ebay or somewhere else if you check around, or even on NewEgg.

 

I should have been more specific - the maximum throughput when G and N devices are connected is G speed. Using a dual band router will allow N devices to attain N speeds, even with G devices connected.

A much cheaper alternative is to buy an N router, and attach a G router as an access point via ethernet cable. N devices will have N speeds, and G devices will have G speeds.

 

Dude, you're still not understanding it! I'll try to put it better.

When set to Mixed mode, an N Router will negotiate with the computer's wireless network adapter in question at ITS speed - if you have a network with 2 computers, and one has a G and and the other an N adapter, the N adapter will connect to the N Router at N speeds and the G adapter will connect at G speeds to the Router. The computer with the slowest adapter is always limited by the speed of the its wireless adapter standard, regardless of the top rated speed of the Router. It doesn't make any difference if it's a Single or Dual-Band N Router - both will allow full throughput of N devices if the adapter and Router are set correctly, which is something that few people ever do. Everyone always focuses on the Router, but rarely do people ever realize that Adapters have Wireless, QoS, Power and other settings that are necessary in order for maximum throughput. I've found many times with N Routers and devices that a single incorrect setting can mean the difference between 130mbps or 270mbps.

 

So, you are telling me that when I have an N device and G device connected to my DIR-655 at the same time, that I will not notice any slowdowns on my N device, when I'm operating in mixed mode? That goes against everything I've ever read, been taught, or experienced in real life. Here is an example: My son's DSi is 802.11g. When I configure my DIR-655 for mixed mode g/n, my e1705 running 802.11n experiences much slower file transfer speeds when the DSi is connected to the network. I'm fairly certain that, with the current draft N routers available, you simply cannot transfer at N speeds when G devices are connected to the router. Even at this point in time, N and G devices don't play well together.

I offer these articles from SmallNetBuilder:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30542/228/1/3/
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30224/100/

If you have a newer article or another technical review that refutes the SMB article, please post it. I will certainly change my tune if I'm operating from outdated information.

 

As far as the "draft", it's going to be ratified within a few weeks, so it's a done deal.

As far as the articles, here's one you should look at that at the same site:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30664/228/

One thing I noted was that all of the devices they mentioned were early N units, not the current ones, and those articles are only a year old - yet the hardware they've listed is at least 2 years old. So I really wonder about their objectivity. I frankly didn't see any objectivity toward N devices at all, which gives me the feeling they're the types that are like Vista bashers - hating it before really getting to know it. I've used N devices since they first became available, with G and N devices mixed, and have never had a speed problem to speak of. Still though, unlike many, I setup networks and I'm a Consultant, so I know of ways to get speed out of networks most people might not.

You're always going to have traffic slowdown / congestion on a single frequency band with the same and different wireless standard speeds and Router communication. You'll only see a slowdown with a legacy device WHEN IT'S TRANSMITTING. If you take steps to keep those transmissions at a minimum (and to give your own device priority access to the router), you won't have that much of a problem. I'll touch on the below as to what you could do, and the reasons you might be having issues.

The biggest advantage of DBN routers is that they allow you to communicate on separate bands independent of each other, without interference. Anytime you have more than one device on a Single band vying for control of the Router, you're going to have slowdowns. I'd also submit that the reason you're seeing slower speeds with your N adapter is because it's not setup right, you're not using QoS setting for your adapter to have priority access to the Router, and any number of other factors that have nothing to do with whether or not you've got a G and N device on the same network.

If your systems are setup to have automatic updates for anything, it means that unless your Router is setup for YOUR SYSTEM to have priority access to it, it will always be second fiddle to whatever is trying to access the Router at any given time. That's the primary function of Quality of Service - to prioritize applications, devices, systems, etc. that need to go to the head of the line for Router access. Without it, as I said, your system is just one in line requesting access to the Router, and if you've got a lot of requests ahead of you, of course it's going to be slow. So if you use Auto updates for anything, shut them off.

Resource Management is another factor in overall network speed, especially in 32 bit systems that are running Vista. The less available RAM there is, the more your CPU is taxed, and the less time it has for network functions. When Available RAM gets to critical or low levels, everything slows down. This is as inevitable as death and taxes.

Even disk fragmentation can cause a speed drop on your network, especially if you don't have a program that defrags the paging/index file, and most defrag utilities (including the native Windows utility) do not perform that function, as it needs to be done prior to Windows booting up. Diskeeper does, if you're interested. I don't know of course how much you know about such things, but if you do, then you do. If you don't, it's worth knowing and checking into.

For right now though, setting up and using your Router's QoS function would be a good first step toward helping you get some speed, as well as matching your Router settings to your Adapter. I just finished a longer post that included some screen shots of setups for networks with all N devices, and setups for networks with Mixed devices. It's important to remember that when using Mixed devices, your Radio Band should be set to 20mhz Standard Channel. You only use 40mhz for N only. It also helps to use an offset channel (I set mine to 11 when setting up a Mixed device network) because it's the furthest from the base 2.4ghz frequency (2.462ghz).

 

Thanks for the information. I had already read the link you provided, which also stated not to mix G and N devices, so I didn't bother posting that one. Regarding my configuration - my router is configured to use QoS and make sure everything is balanced. Channel separation is good as well. Channel width is also set correctly, at 20/40 auto, per D-Link specs (I have strong signal everywhere in my house, so using 20Mhz doesn't offer much in the way of signal strength gains/throughput increases for my setup). For my router, a year old DIR-655 A2 with 1.21 firmware, I do indeed suffer when 802.11g devices connect to my network. When 802.11n is ratified and firmware releases are made available, finally standardizing the specification, the problem of mixing hardware brands and G/N may finally be a thing of the past. But, I won't hold my breath for older hardware to magically be fixed - but new hardware should play well together.

 

Thanks for both of your comments. I learned a thing or two and since the purpose of this router is for connecting to the Internet and no HD streaming of any sort, I think we'll just go save money and go with tried and true G routers. It seems that's G and N working together has too much performance hits for the extra price we'd be paying for. If I was getting a router for my own personal use, I'd have gone with N to make use of the extra throughput if the use was ever needed, but because of the situation, a G router is best. Such a shame my N wireless card's potential still can't be fully realized. The links were very useful. Thanks again and you've been repped. =)

 

This is why I hate wireless connections. They are only good for browsing the Internet.

 

Are you kidding? I stream DVDs over 802.11n, do backups over wireless, transfer files back and forth over my network using 802.11n, and don't have any issues.

 

i even stream on divx files to my xbox on wireless G! with out lag!