Still concerned: Intel Wireless AC 8265/9260 or Killer 1535/1555 for my MSI GS63 Stealth?

Good morning!

@Phoenix, thank you so much for the information on Killer! I began to research several threads on this forum on Killer, and just as you said, I did see that there was a time (not all that long ago) when you weren’t as much of a fan of the brand...although it seems they’ve recently changed something (within their architecture? their drivers?) that has made the product easier for newbies to use.

I did want to ask a question about something I clearly do not “get.” I understood @Phoenix when he/you wrote that the number of bars showing up at the bottom of my screen, having to do with “signal quality”—the term the network and sharing connections window uses when I click on the bars and then on the name of our wireless connection— has little to do with the speed of the connection (uploading or downloading data):

Secondly, forget about bars, with the Intel cards, I would get 4 bars, which is 2 bars above what I get with the Killer from that bar perspective BUT, and this is a big BUT, when I check my connection speed with the Intel, it fluctuates between 172MBPS to 390 MBPS severely impacting my internet connection's download speed.

However, the number of bars does have something to do with the strength of the connection, doesn’t it? I ask because if I take my laptop, connected with 4 bars (say), and walk outside and down the road, I eventually get to no bars...and no Internet connection. Speed has little to do with that part of things; if I’m not connected—if there are no bars showing—then I have no Internet to measure connection speed.

If, say, Killer’s product knocks me off the Internet randomly and for reasons I would have to determine and attempt to fix, then it won’t matter if it’s speedier than the Intel when it is connected. How would I be able to trust in its stability/reliability?

What I Have Now

I previously explained about where I work (downstairs, where the structure is pretty much concrete, with Spectrum’s modem/router a floor above me and triangularly away).

@Phoenix, yesterday you wrote, “With the Intel, because of the sucky speeds that it connects to the router at...” I took that to mean that the wireless card’s ability to connect to our router is at least as important as (if not more important than) its ability to connect straight to the Internet (the way I used to have it years ago when TimeWarner had me connected directly to my desktop in NYC).

1. The Spectrum modem/router they installed upstairs is a Ubee Model DDW36C. Among its interfaces and standards are the following:

• Cable: F-connector, female
• 16X4 channel bonding
• LAN: 4 10/100/1000 Mbps RJ-45 ports
• DOCSIS 3.0 certified
• DOCSIS 1.0/1.1/2.0 certified
• Supports 8 SSIDs per radio, 802.11b/g/n/ac compliant with link speeds up to AC1900 Wi-Fi (600 Mbps @ 2.4GHz + 1300 Mbps @ 5GHz), beam forming technology and high powered amplifiers to extend range, 3 Tx and 3 Rx antennas with dual-band concurrent, high power radios
• UL/FCC Class B, Energy Star Certified, WiFi Alliance Certified
• MoCA 2.0 enabled
• TR-069 capable

I don’t see MU-MIMO included in the descriptions or .pdf the website provides, so I’m not sure whether it would respond more readily to Intel’s 8265 or 9260; or to Killer’s 1535 or 1555.

I spoke with Spectrum tech support this morning (waste of time, I think), and they indicated that either wireless card brand would work with the Ubee model router/modem we have...so if I assume he knows whereof he speaks (a bit of a leap, but still...), then either the Intel or Killer will "talk" to the Ubee.

2. I work from both a desktop and a laptop, set up in different areas of my home office downstairs. This morning I gave both of them a speed test.

My low-end HP Pavilion desktop uses a Qualcomm Atheros AR9485 802.11 b/g/n adapter. At 4 bars showing for my Internet connection, this was the result:
38 Mbps to connect
35.44 Mbps download speed
11.52 Mbps upload speed

My Dell Inspiron laptop uses an Intel Centrino Wireless N-1030. At 5 bars showing for my Internet connection, this was the result of the speed test:
34 Mbps to connect
32.17 Mbps download speed
6.81 Mbps upload speed

Clearly things are moving slowly where I work. For now, I’m changing just my laptop (to the MSI). Since I’m no expert on swapping out wireless cards, I’d like to be able to have confidence in the wireless card I choose for the MSI, and know that it will work seamlessly and efficiently--as well as powerfully--with Spectrum’s Ubee router/modem.

Can I have that confidence in the Killer 1535--or would the Intel 8265, with a (slightly?) "weaker" ability to offer signal strength, be the steadier workhorse right out of the box?

I apologize for repeating myself, and for my ignorance, and I thank you all for your experiences and input! (And thank you, @Phoenix, for caring!)

 

As you saw in the tests you posted at the bottom, the Qualcomm Atheros (which was acquired by Killer recently so it's very similar) gave you better speed.) Now I'm not saying that the bars don't matter, but what I was saying is, with the Intel Cards (both the 8265 and the newer 9260) I would get 4 or 5 bars but if I check the connection speed in Network and Sharing Center in Control Panel, it shows that I am connected @ 172MBPS or sometimes 399 MBPS then sometimes 73MBPS the speeds keep changing every few seconds. Thus, from my 100MBPS connection speed, I was only getting around 20-26 MBPS download speed, it was severely limited due to the flaky connection speeds. With the Killer, I only get 2 bars but not once was I ever disconnected or had any issues and the signal shows 866MBPS any time I check it, which translated into me getting the full speed from my ISP when downloading/uploading.

I just don't recommend installing the Killer Performance Suite as I have noticed it throttles my bandwidth. I want my full bandwidth to be available to all apps at any given time. I have a very fast connection and have no issues with that.

I am very eager to test the new Killer 1550 soon once I get it as I'm interested to see how the signal will be now that it's made in collaboration with Intel.

To sum it up, what I think is that given your setup as you described, you'd be lucky if you get any decent speeds with the Intel. they just cannot penetrate walls/doors as good as the Killer cards do.

On a side note, I strongly suggest you get a MU-MIMO router in the future for better performance and range.

don't go as extreme as I did with the Nighthawk X10, but you can go with the much cheaper but respectable Nighthawk X4S or the more expensive Nighthawk X8. They both support MU-MIMO.

See this thread, a good read:
For maximum coverage and speed, what is better X10 or X8?

Side Note: In my Nighthawk X10 Router, it has 3 bands, 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and the new AD Band which gives superior speeds but cannot penetrate walls (leave that aside for now, it's only supported on the new Killer 1550 anyway), so you might be sitting there thinking hmm, which band shall I connect to give me the best connection or speeds? 2.4GHz or 5GHz, well, with the recent firmware update for the X10, they introduced Smartconnect, basically if you enable that, you will not have different bands to connect from, (ie. Nighthawk-2 Ghz or Nighthawk-5GHz), they are all combined into one connection (ie. Nighthawk) then when you connect from your phone, tablet, or laptop, the router connects your device to the best band and least congested one for optimal speeds. ASUS has had this feature since ages in their router but it has always sucked until today and always connected you to the slower speed band. With the Nighthawk, that SmartConnect feature works like a charm and always connects me @866MBPS to the fastest and best band available.

Spoiler: What is Netgear Smart Connect

What is Smart Connect and how do I enable or disable it on my Nighthawk router?

Smart Connect balances your 5 GHz WiFi connections into two different radio bands: the 5 GHz radio 1 band and the 5 GHz radio 2 band. Your router uses Smart Connect to choose the best radio band for your device to give you the best WiFi performance.

For Smart Connect to work, both 5 GHz radio bands must use the same WiFi network name (SSID) and network key (password). That means that when you connect to the router with WiFi, you see only one 5 GHz SSID that connects to both 5 GHz radio bands. If you enable Smart Connect and the SSID and passwords for both 5 GHz radio bands do not match, the WiFi settings for 5 GHz radio 1 overwrite the WiFi settings for the 5 GHz radio 2.

Note: Smart Connect is disabled by default.

 

Good morning!



@Phoenix, I know you'll be posting your input on the 1555 when it arrives and you've had time to test it. I'll look forward to that.

In the meantime, I decided not to tamper with my original choice of the Intel 8265 card for my MSI Stealth. When the laptop comes sometime within the next three weeks or so, I'll be checking both connection and speed(s), in my office and out in the world.

I felt that the 9260 was too new for me to start playing around with it; better to wait till I've read what others have to say. And I just wasn't sure enough about going with a Killer card until I've determined that the Intel is not working well for me.

Also, for now (at least), I'm a little hesitant about buying a MU-MIMO router for my office area. It would probably help for all the reasons you mention, @Phoenix, but if anything went wrong with my signal/connection (for normal reasons) and I had a MU-MIMO router in addition to their Ubee modem/router, I'd have trouble figuring out what might be going on, which device was malfunctioning, and how to take care of it.

The more pieces of equipment I bring into my office to streamline my operation, the likelier it may be that I'll be raising my blood pressure at 4:00 a.m. trying to fix an issue!

If I decide I'm not happy with the Intel, I've learned that I can contact @Donald, buy the card I want, and (at my own expense, as is only right) return the laptop to HIDevolution to have the Intel replaced. (I could probably do it myself, but...better not try with a new laptop.)

Anyway, Anthony, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to offer suggestions...and @Phoenix, thank you for the tech info--I've got a lot to learn.

 

I had the Intel 8260 and while it was slightly faster on my network than the Killer 1535 I was using before, its built-in Bluetooth was terrible. When using an Xbox One controller over BT, it was degrading performance in games. Switching back to the Killer fixed that issue. Further, since that time, I've changed modems/routers, and Killer has improved its driver software by an order of magnitude, so the 1535 is now faster than I remember the 8260 being, and for sure more so than the Intel 7265 that's in the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro in my signature.

If you want to change the wireless card yourself, it's not difficult. It's completely visible when you open the bottom panel and is just a matter of disconnecting the antennae, removing a screw, lifting the old card out, then reversing what you just did. You may have to remove a small piece of yellow tape, but it's not sticky enough to leave a residue and is not completely necessary to replace. The only thing you really need to keep track of are the positive and negative antenna connectors. All you have to do is remember which ones you disconnected and make sure to put them back on the right terminals on the new card.

In reading your posts, you're clearly enthusiastic for what you'll be getting, and that's awesome. However, you seem to be really overthinking some of the details. MSI builds good systems. HIDevolution does a great job integrating upgrade components and QC testing, and they will take care of you in the (unlikely) event that something goes wrong. Since you ordered from HID, brother @Phoenix will do a remote session with you to tweak and tune your computer so Windows behaves more responsively and efficiently. Between him, HID, and the rest of this community, you're in good hands, so don't sweat the small stuff.

 

@saturnotaku, thank you so much for your reply—if my work environment clashes with the Intel 8265, I will likely want to switch to Killer (by then, @Phoenix will have tested the 1555, so that may be what I’d decide to use).

Bluetooth isn’t as essential to my work as it may be to others...although it should be made more use of, in my case. I may find that with my new laptop—which I learned this morning has been completed, tested, boxed, and sent to FedEx!—I’ll end up experimenting a lot more than before.

You’re also right that I overthink things (not just in this area, either)...but it’s in my nature to (try to) think of all the issues I might experience, in case the time comes when having thought about them will expedite a resolution. Uh...control freak, I guess it’s called.

I will definitely be reaching out to @Phoenix when the package arrives (fingers crossed it makes it to me without incident), so that I can receive his help in setting it up properly before I do anything.

Again, @saturnotaku, thanks!

 

And another report from a user about how bad the Intel card's range is: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...o-owners-lounge.795498/page-121#post-10673058

 

And that may be exactly what I experience, once I've got my new baby up and running--who knows. One good thing for me is that I can take the time to confirm the Intel 8265 is failing me, both in my office and out in the world.

And by that time, @Phoenix, you will no doubt have tested the Killer 1555--and if I'm thoroughly turned off by the Intel, I'll switch!
But even though @saturnotaku tried to explain how simple it would be for me to switch cards by myself--and I thank him for that!--I won't have the courage. That much, I know. And with a new machine so beautifully configured for me (although not for gamers!), I don't want to take any chances. So I'll be happy to have HIDevolution handle it for me, if it comes to that.

@Phoenix, I know you (or someone) told me that the Killer 1555 has an Intel chip in it (or that Intel is collaborating with Killer on the 1555); does the 1525 have one as well? If not, do you think there will be a difference in quality between the two because of the Intel collaboration on the newer version?

 

The Killer 1550 got delayed for another month so don't expect any answers soon. Right now, as it stands, number 1 is Killer AC 1535 and there isn't even a number 2 in my books due to how crappy the Intel Cards range is. Period.

But yeah, switching WLAN cards is very easy, even a child could to it, you just open the back panel, unscrew the WLAN card, put the new one in and connect the antennas then screw it back. You obviously would've downloaded the drivers before you do this

 

See? This is what I'm talking about! It's not obvious to me about downloading the drivers first--well, it is now, since you wrote that, but...

Anyway, I'll see how it goes with the Intel. I'll know if it's holding me back. Maybe I can practice with my husband's (old, sluggish) laptop--change his wireless card. If I make a mess of it, no harm done.

 

Thank you for validating that. I've been saying it for a couple of years now. The older Killer wireless stuff was totally garbage, but the 1202 and 1535 have been better for me than anything recently released from Intel. As the case seems to be with so many things, the key to having something good is to NOT use a default installation. INF-only drivers with no proprietary software bloatware is always the best approach.

 

Initial speed tests on my new MSI GS63 Stealth-061, wired and wireless; compared with my older Dell Inspiron 15R

So...this morning I performed a few Internet connection tests for speed, with different comparisons.

First, I should mention that our router/modem comes to us courtesy of Spectrum; it's a Ubee DDW36C, and it offers two different connections: one is the basic 2.4 GHz and the other--which none of our current computers (before my new MSI arrived two days ago) are able to connect to--is 5 GHz.

(1) I took my new MSI Stealth--which has an Internet Wireless AC 8265 in it--up to the router/modem, right next to it, and did a wireless speed test on the 2.4 GHz. Results:

24 Mbps (ping/to connect); 108.30 Mbps (download); 10.56 Mbps (upload)

(2) Next I connected it with an ethernet cable directly to the modem/router for a wired speed test on the 2.4 GHz. Results:

22 Mbps (ping/to connect); 118.39 Mbps (download); 11.79 Mbps (upload)

(3) I switched over to the 5 GHz connection for a wireless speed test. Results:

24 Mbps (ping/to connect); 118.51 Mbps (download); 11.80 (upload)

(4) Still on the 5 GHz connection, I plugged in my ethernet cable for a wired speed test. Results:

23 Mbps (ping/to connect); 118.2 Mbps (download); 11.85 Mbps (upload)

I see only very minor differences among any of these variations...and I find that very interesting. After I get to know my Stealth a bit better, I think I will contact Spectrum at the same time I research pricing and models for MU-MIMO router/modems...and find out if I can either switch to a MU-MIMO (as long as it will work with 2.4 GHz, for the older machines we have) or use one as an access hub along with the Ubee.

Because I'm wondering if it's the Spectrum router or even Spectrum's control headquarters that's deliberately moderating these speeds--keeping them consistently low.

Anyway: After that, I brought up my Inspiron 15R, about 7 years old(? not sure); it has an Intel Centrino Wireless-N1030, 1x2 bgn (2.4GHz) wireless card. So the 5 GHZ connection isn't even possible on it--doesn't show up among the wireless options. But the 2.4 GHz does.

(5) First, the wireless speed test, right next to the router/modem:

37 Mbps (ping/to connect); 20.21 Mbps (download); 7.27 Mbps (upload)

(6) Finally, the wired speed test, via ethernet cable:

27 Mbps (ping/to connect); 78.69 Mbps (download); 11.74 (upload)

Clearly a significant difference between the two computers on 2.4 GHz wireless connection, and wireless will be the primary method of connecting, of course.

There were no obstacles in the way of the wireless card, of course--and I'll be trying the speeds on my Stealth when I do have obstacles in the way (walls, floors, etc.). But for now, at least, I have a machine that will offer at least a faster d/l speed (if not much in the way of an upload speed).

Over time, I'll get to know how worthwhile the Intel AC card is--and if I find that it slows me down (if it's not the Ubee making trouble, in other words) or if it dies on me periodically, and so on, I'll likely switch to the Killer card, since that seems to be the favorite now.

Yes, very interesting.

 

My beastie only has PCI-E mini slot for Wi-Fi card.
I wanna upgrade to 9260AC with this :



Anyone used any of these?

 

@i-Diot I didn't use one (only because it won't likely fit inside the machine I intend to put 9260 in); it's a dumb adapter, which simply converts form-factors - there is absolutely no reason for it not to work, as long as there is enough space for it & the card.

p.s. would really appreciate if you measure its dimensions assembled with the card, if you end up ordering one.

 

You see these punctured lines they're meant to be broken like a cracker.
So theoretically fitment shouldn't be a problem.

 

@i-Diot one word: height.

Don't forget antenna adapters. Same seller has the WLAN adapter.

 

There's another devil in disguise here :
You need a specific M.2 (NGFF) KEY TYPE.
If it's meant to be used with 3G 4G WWAN PCI-E mini card - you need the so-called "Key B type NGFF adapter"

In our case we need M.2 NGFF KEY A+E ngff adapter (ngff m.2 key a+e to pci-e mini)

Ordered one with express shipping. Will let you know if okay when it arrives.

 

I went this route in a MSI GT780DX that had a mini pcie slot for the pireless card .I used an Intel mini pcie 7260ac in it and it worked well.

I tried a M.2(NGFF) 7265 in an adapter and replacing the antennas.

I had to duct tape it in place but it did work before the notebook went belly up.

To fully place the adapter with an M.2 type card in it you will need 40mm(1.565") clearance when the adapter is in the mini pcie slot to the top of the adapter pictured below that has a M.2 Intel 9260ac in it..

It's about 20mm from the centers of the mini pcie screw holes in the adapter to the top of the adapter.

The adapter is 30mm wide

 

What happened? You think it had to do with the wifi card?

 

It was the mainboard that gave out.

When using an M.2(NGFF) wireless card in the adapter you may experience lower speeds,I did.

In my MSI GT780DX the mini pcie 7260 gave me the best connection and speeds that was usually 866.7 Mbps with line of sight and 10' from an Netgear R7000 router.

Your Internet service,site you are connecting to or downloading from,time of day,channel and channel co-share and a lot more variables will effect Internet speed.Transferring files on your home network will show better results with newer components than wireless Internet

The best Internet speed package that Spectrum offers in my area is 400 Mbps and it's $25/mo more than the 100 Mbps service.

Closest Google fiber is a miles away and not planned to come here.

YMMV

 

@WhatsThePoint thank you very much! What about combined height of adapter & WLAN card?

 

When the adapter is seated in the mini pcie slot it's 40mm in height from the bottom to the top of the adapter.

From the center of 2 mini pcie mounting holes in the adapter it's 20mm to the top of the adapter.

The adapter is 30mm in width.

The Intel 9260ac is approx 22mm wide and has an approx height of 27mm when seated in the adapter.

IMO it's best to use the mini pcie Intel 7260ac till your next notebook purchase than invest in and try to fit and use the adapter.

 

Can anyone please tell me the correct settings for 8265 to get maximum performance. I'm connecting to Netgear R7800 router.

 

If you reset the R7800 and then login to it 'routerlogin.net' you should get a message asking if you would like to have it set to optimal performance for your system.You should do it.

Your wireless card does not support HT160 so no need to check the box in Advanced Setup.If you upgrade to a Killer 1550 or Intel 9260 then you can check that box

Then right click on the Wi-Fi icon in the lower right corner.There select open Network and Internet settings>change adapter settings>2X click on your Wi-Fi network>Properties>Configure>Advanced

Make sure transmit is on highest.

Try the both setting for Thoroughput.

I set the roaming to lowest.

Speeds will never exceed the source or Internet service.

If you have the inSSIDer program you can view which channels are least congested in your environment and see data speed and connection strength.

 

If using HT160 ensure you use lower channels as you get a contiguous 160MHz, with upper channels it’s a split 80 MHz + 80 MHz channel bonding which the 9260ac aka Killer 1550 does not seem to support.

 

Proud owner of a 9260. Solid bars, full speed. I don't understand why poor network performance is being attributed to this exceptional piece of hardware.

 

That's because you probably have a clear line of sight between your laptop and the router. The problem that I and others are facing is that POS card cannot penetrate walls or even wooden doors without giving your crappy fluctuating link speed (signal). Oh, and I have 3 of em with the best router in the world, a Nighthawk X10 FTW

PS: There's nothing to be proud of for owning a WLAN card

 

It works fine for me through 2 walls from router ~15ft 866 Mbps link (72 Down / 50 Up MB/s real world speeds), its the same one floor below, that is at HT80
At HT160 it connects at 1.3 Gbps Link (108 Down / 45-50 Up MB/s actual transfer speeds) in my room 15ft away and one floor below at 1.7 Gb[s Link (112-114 Down / 70 Up MB/s actual transfer speeds)
It even connects in the basement which is two floors down from the router. I mostly have wood/drywall interior so that helps.

I seriously think you got a defective unit or a non spec unit that was illegally sold via contracted factory. The latter would occur more often when a new product is just released and all those discarded units would make some people a nice profit.

 

2 of em were bought from Amazon and the first one was from eBay, all have the same issue.

Also, are you sure you got an 866 MBPS link? reason I ask is because mine would connect @ 780MBPS at first then drop down to 390 then to 173 then slowly to 35MBPS making my internet crawl. Can you post a pic of your link speed.

Also, the head of customer engineering from Killer is contact with me and told me that they identified an issue with the current driver that is causing this for both the Killer 1550 and Intel 9260 since they are the same card anyway so let's hope by next week when we get a new driver then I might try again.

What router do you have by the way?

 

Yeah I am certain, sure I can post a link and in the same image you can see a download from my NAS to Laptop. This is with my laptop in my room 15 ft away from the R7800 with two walls plus the R7800 is under a wooden table.

GRR.. paint keeps double pasting one image over the other, now fixed. Also it does go below 866 Mbps link occasionally but not very often. I would check your transfer rates more than the link rates.

 

Actually, I don't have line of sight. My other devices have a weaker connection than my rig.

Claiming Netgear to be best is silly, at any rate. Newest tech? Yes, that is reasonable. But to be honest? I think you are living through early adopter syndrome.

It all makes sense though, first gen "high end" router from the providers of all things finicky, Netgear.

I would strongly advise getting something from a brand that doesn't have a recent history of hardware issues months after launch. I am on N, not even ac. 5ghz, from an old POS xfinity router, and I am full signal strength full (300Mbps) speed. There is something wrong with your setup and it isn't the 9260.

 

I don’t think the issue is with the R9000 either, it did pretty well in my testing during the beta period. There is something else in your setup as the previous poster mentioned.

The R7800 IMHO has the best 5Ghz range and performance in the consumer space, granted the R9000 uses the same Qualcomm QCA9984 WiFi chip, I guess the the board layout and antennas are more optimal on the R7800, I gave away my R9000 test unit to my uncle. I mean the R9000 hasa better CPU if you run stuff like PLEX and you need the extra LAN ports and SFP port but I have a dedicated NAS for media and storage. However I never bought into the whole active antennas thing as it clearly doesn't help it beat its older sibling.

Honestly though it doesn't matter if you buy Asus or Netgear just buy a model that is at least 1 year old when the performance is optimal and bugs are cleared out, I mean the Asus for example GT5300 is great from a tech standpoint but still has issues with latency. When it comes to routers old is usually gold.

 

Bro you really need to start quoting people when posting a reply as now we don't know who are you referring to

 

So the Killer 1550 is an intel chip? https://www.anandtech.com/show/1217...-networks-launches-the-killer-wirelessac-1550

I'm interested in messing around with either the 9260 or the 1550 and came across this. Sorry if this is old news.

 

Yes