Networking questions

hey guys..
i have a few questions on creating a small home network. this is a pickup from another thread of mine, where i learned the basics of wireless networking at home. i need a few more things clarified, i hope u can help me:

firstly, i was always confused between the network setup wizard and the wireless network setup wizard. now i realise that the difference between the two is that wireless network setup has WEP protection, and is the major difference between the two, right? also, i believe u need to run network setup wizard on any connection on which u want to share files or printers?

secondly, sometime back, i used the network connection wizard which added both my laptops to the same workgroup, and now i can share files and printers. today, i created a wireless network using the wireless network wizard, and created a connection between the two. i dont have a USB port on my router, so i manually keyed in the new network name and the key. it successfully connected the two computers, and it also had internet access. i was under the impression that i would lose my internet connection after setting this new wireless connection. i guess i was wrong?

thirdly, i disconnected my new wireless connection, and connected back to my usual internet connection, i was still able to share files the way i used to, before creating the new wireless connection? is that normal? i thought the whole idea of the wireless network connection was to provide security? but here, as soon as i disconnect, i can still access the shared files and printers with no WEP protection... is that normal too?

lastly, i created an ad hoc network, with my router turned off. the connection worked fine, and both laptop shows that theyre connected..but i cannot access shared files of the other laptop. i ran network setup wizard again, to share my files and printers, but under my network, i see my workgroup, but only the current computer is listed, even though the other computer shows it is connected too.

im sorry if this post is very long, and quite complicated, and i'd really appreciate it if someone could answer each point separately..thanks a lot!

 

ok, i think i understand most of the above problems myself now...
but i have one more question:
i have two laptops, and one router. both laptops are connected directly to the router and to the internet. i relase that i dont need to create an additional wireless network using wireless network setup wizard (as i asked in the above post), coz my current wireless connection is WEP secured, and connects the laptops to the router. however, when using Network Setup Wizard, i need to know which connection method to use to share my files and printers. the one i found most appropriate for my setup was "Other/This Computer Connects To The Internet Directly Or Through A Network Hub. Other Computers On My Network Also Connect To The Internet Directly Or Through A Hub"

however, i get a warning saying that my computer is open to the internet if i do this, and that its insecure. i also read on another website that this mode is insecure, and that i should manually configure this later on..i dont know how to do that, so my question is, which connection method should i select on Network Setup Wizard? and if im choosing the correct one, how do i manually configure it to be more secure? thanks!

 

first off...WEP is a NO...NO...set your router up in WPA-PSK/TKIP...WEP is almost like having an unsecured network...very weak encryption...to add wireless accounts manually...open network connections in control panel...right click on your wireless NIC...choose properties...middle tab (view wireless connections)...select add a new connection and configure the workgroup name...and the type of encryption...also at this tab you can remove any connections no longer used...such as a hotel wifi...restaurant wifi...etc...etc

 

actually, imo, use wpa2......

min 20 random generated characters-- but remember, hackers use dictionaries w/ their programs, so be sure not to use words found in dictionaries........

 

ok, thanks. but can u reply my second post? coz i already have a wireless network set up (the one which i had for connecting my computers to the internet)..but when running network setup wizard (to configure file sharing n stuff), which connection method do i use? i stated my setup (two laptops, both separately connected to a router which is connected to the internet). the one i used gives me a warning saying its insecure as my files will accessible on the internet. thanks

 

if your network is set up...don't think you have to run any wizards...just do a left click on you drive in my computer...i'm guessing your drive isn't partitioned...if not left click on 'C' drive...properties/sharing/select the whole drive or just a created folder in the drive used for sharing purposes only...

 

To secure you files make sure you require ID and PW. This will make them more secure so when you at hot spots they are PW protected from prying eyes.

 

Excellent suggestion 'blue68f100'...security is something we all sometimes take for granted...definitely set permissions for the shared folder...this is what a good forum is all about...ppl...helping ppl...kudos to all here!!!

 

ok..here's wat i did. i thought i needed to create a new wireless network using the wizard n stuff. then, after doing that, i realise it creates just another connection just like the one i already had for my wifi. so i decided to just leave the wireless connection i already had, set up by my ISP, which is secured. however, i want to run network setup wizard to ensure both my computers are configured similarly etc...so if i choose the option i did (where im warned about security issues), how do i configure an ID and password? or will permissions be enough? and can i set permissions on XP Pro? thanks

 

and yeah..this forum is awesome..all the guys are damn helpful

 

been a while since i've had my network set up this way...believe in permissions you have the choices of allow others to make changes...or do not allow others to make changes...so basically first gives full permission to folder...second gives only read only permissions

 

sorry, but i dont know how to set permissions on XP Pro.
basically wat i want to do is share my printer, so that one laptop (a desktop replacement) can be connected to it, and the other one doesnt need to be connected, but simply share the printer thats connected to the desktop replacement laptop. how would u set up the network that i require? thanks

been a while since u set up ur network this way...how do u set it up now? wat am i doing thats wrong, or incorrect? i dont need to create a new wireless connection, do i? i have my router, and the two laptops are configured to connect to it wirelessly, i dont need a new wireless connection? please let me know. im eager to learn this stuff, and ive learned a LOT on this forum, but as u can see..not enough yet lol

 

Everyone with read is not a good idea. That will mean everyone at any public hotspot would be able to read his files.

On XP Pro you do a rt click on the file/folder then there is an option. I think. I'm not in front of my XP-Pro machine at the moment.

First I would setup a unique Work group name for all pc's you want to have access. With default you will catch about 80% of all users.

 

thanks...i changed my workgroup name from default, and used network setup manager to configure them (and set the workgroup name, actually). when i right click n go into sharing and security, i get only checkboxes to Share the folder, and "Allow network users to change my files". tell me, ive chosen the correct Connection Method from network manager, right? (i chose Other and This Computer Connects To The Internet Directly Or Through A Network Hub. Other Computers On My Network Also Connect To The Internet Directly Or Through A Hub). if the only way of securing it is by setting permissions, then ihave no idea
and also, the only data thats available on the internet would be my Shared files, right? thanks

 

I do not think you want others to change your files. The options you selected are correct. To test, disconnect the isp connection from the router, then see if you can connect from the other machine. This way you do not have to worry about others accessing your files. You can also set your FW to only allow from a specific subnet. This only helps if you are not using the def lan's subnet. 90% of the users do not change the subnets.

 

if you want to add a printer hooked up to another machine in the house...first off...that pc will have to be booted up to set up printer sharing...and also will have to be booted up for the printer to work through your network...i'm using XP if yur on Vista may vary slightly...control panel/printers and faxes/add printer/choose network printer/(if the pc with the printer is called Bob/in the network box add \\bob\printer\...your network will find the printer...as i said before though...the workstation with the printer installed will have to be booted up to be able to print over your network..

 

thanks for that. i already hooked up the printer to be networked. so my laptop shows my printer which is fixed to my desktop replacement laptop..
yes, i disconnected the ISP connection from my router, and everything worked fine...but i cant leave my connection removed just to keep my network secure...wat can i do to secure this network? i dont know how to set permissions on XP Pro files. if u say the connection method and the options i selected are correct, then wat do i do? thanks a lot!

 

With XP Pro you have group permissions as well as file permission. If you do not have an account on the guest PC, see if you can access the files. If you can it's open to the public. If not you will be prompted for ID and Password. Most all router use a NAT firewall, which will prevent others from the outside seeing your files. The danger is when you connect to a public hotspot. Rt click and sharing and security is where it should be set. If your only going 1 way only the host file need to have sharing active.

This is one of the main reason I use NAS's. Being network drives, if I'm not home I can not access them without starting my VPN up.

 

thanks a lot. just a couple of points i'd like to clear up:
1. so u mean to say, if i take one of my laptops outside, and use a public hotspot, my shared files will be at risk?

2. only my Shared folders and files will be at risk, right? not my entire computer?

3. under sharing and security, i cant see a permissions tab or anything. i only see a "allow users on this network to change files" checkbox. do i need to enable something?

4. i have a 2wire firewall, about 2 years old. i believe it should have the firewall ur talking about, so i should be safe at home for the moment at least...but please help me with this..thanks a LOT!

 

If you were to set your lan so you have a unique subnet. Your personal firewall can block outside access.

Only your shared folders are at risk.

I hope this helps you. This will make the files private to you only. If I recall if some one try to access the files and folder they should be prompted for user id and pw. This is from MS help on setting up shared. Excuse my slow reply, I have fractured my left wrist so typing is a new adventure.

Like I said earlier I use NAS's so I do not run file sharing. maybe some one else can sheed some light on the finder details.

To make your folders private
Open My Computer.
Double-click the drive where Windows is installed (usually drive (C , unless you have more than one drive on your computer).
If the contents of the drive are hidden, under System Tasks, click Show the contents of this drive.

Double-click the Documents and Settings folder.
Double-click your user folder.
Right-click any folder in your user profile, and then click Properties.
On the Sharing tab, select the Make this folder private so that only I have access to it check box.
Notes

To open My Computer, click Start, and then click My Computer.
This option is only available for folders included in your user profile. Folders in your user profile include My Documents and its subfolders, Desktop, Start Menu, Cookies, and Favorites. If you do not make these folders private, they are available to everyone who uses your computer.
When you make a folder private, all of its subfolders are private as well. For example, when you make My Documents private, you also make My Music and My Pictures private. When you share a folder, you also share all of its subfolders unless you make them private.
You cannot make your folders private if your drive is not formatted as NTFS. For information about converting your drive to NTFS, click Related Topics.


To share a drive or folder on the network
Open Windows Explorer, and then locate the drive or folder you want to share.
Right-click the drive or folder, and then click Sharing and Security.
If you are sharing a drive, on the Sharing tab, click If you understand the risk but still want to share the root of the drive, click here.
If you are sharing a folder, go to the next step.
Do one of the following:
If the Share this folder on the network check box is available, select the check box.
If the Share this folder on the network check box is not available, this computer is not on a network. If you would like to set up a home or small office network, click the Network Setup Wizard link and follow the instructions to turn on file sharing. Once file sharing is enabled, begin this procedure again.
Notes

To open Windows Explorer, click Start, point to All Programs, point to Accessories, and then click Windows Explorer.
When you share a drive or folder, anyone who has user access to the network can read the contents of that drive or folder. If you want to remove the drive or folder from the network, follow steps 1 and 2 above to get to the Sharing tab. On the Sharing tab, in Network sharing and security, clear the Share this folder on the network check box.
To allow complete access to the contents of your shared drive or folder, follow steps 1 and 2 above to get to the Sharing tab. On the Sharing tab, in Network sharing and security, select the Allow network users to change my files check box.
To change the name of your folder on the network, in the Share name text box, type a new name for your folder. This will not change the name of the folder on your computer.
If you are logged on as a guest (a guest account provides access to the computer for any user who does not have a user account on the computer), you cannot create a shared folder.
The Sharing option is not available for the Documents and Settings, Program Files, and WINDOWS system folders. In addition, you cannot share folders in other user's profiles.

 

thanks a lot for that, i appreciate u taking time to reply despite ur wrist, i hope u recover soon..
again, im not too sure about setting a unique subnet. wat ur saying is, if i set up a unique subnet on my lan, then even if i take my laptop to a public hotspot, my shared folders will still be secure?

setting my folders to private didnt help, as it then greyed out the Share This Folder checkbox. thats ok though, i can find that out by myself or on google thanks for the tips, please clarify the first point about the unique subnet, thankxs!

 

ok, i found out how to get the permissions tab on the sharing and security page (folder options, disable Simple File Sharing). but now, i cant add users from my other computer on the permissions tab. i can only search my current computer for users, as in..i cant change the search Location to my other laptop or to my entire workgroup. any ideas? coz wat i want to do is to deny the Everyone group access, and add the user from my other laptop and give him access. thanks!

 

Recheck your groups, make sure they are identical including case sensitive. If you don't have an account on the pc that is not connecting use add users and use your same ID as all the others.

On most all router they default to 192.168.0.1, change it to something like this 192.168.XXX.1 Where XXX is a number between 10 - 253. Doing this will allow your personal FW control subnets access. Just add yours in as allow all, becareful with this because a lot of FW def to the /24 mask. I have setup quite a few 2wires networks, this can be found under you local lan settings. It's tied to the gateway.

 

my workgroup names are the same for both computers...coz i see both computers under the same workgroup in My Network Places. however, when i try to add a user on my permissions list, the only location it will search for users is my current computer, not the other one

and i dont understand the subnet thing. firstly, why should i do this? is it so that even if i take one of my laptops to a public hotspot, my shared files will be safe? if i dont, will my shared files be at risk? thanks so much

 

I'm assuming that one of the two laptops in question is the _Sony running WinXP-Pro, but I don't think you've told us what the other laptop (presumably the DTR) is running.

If it's running WinXP-Home or WinXP-MediaCenter, you are not going to be able to add a user account from the remote computer to the computer running WinXP-Pro because Microsoft gelded the network functionality in WinXP-Home/MC so that the only way those two OSes can access a network share is through anonymous login - in other words, they are per-se untrusted and therefore cannot be given account specific permissions other than giving blanket permissions to everyone.

I currently have a similar problem with my home network - not with printers but with access to the drives on my XP-Pro system - and it is a very, very pestiferous, intentionally engineered flaw in the XP-Home/MC editions. I have two unused copies of WinXP-Pro (retail) and I'm to the point of using one to at least upgrade one of my XP-Home laptops to XP-Pro.

EDIT: Setting folders to private is basically a pseudo-version of "hide system files" that can be optionally applied to user files - basically, if private folders is set, no one other than the owner of that file can access it, and then only through a local account (i.e., you have to be logged onto the physical system on which the file resides, you can't access it remotely through a network share - to access it remotely, you'd have to actually log onto the physical machine using something like remote desktop).

 

oh sorry! thats exactly my problem, my DTR runs XP Home. it IS a major flaw in the OS version, definitely. im quite disappointed. now that i cant set permissions, i think i'll stop sharing files and folders, and just share the one printer. that shouldnt cause any security risks, right?

and btw, now i understand wat private folder setting is, but i cant use that to share, i realise.

and blue68f100, if i can trouble to u explain the unique subnet thing, as in...why exactly do i need to do it (security if i take my sony laptop to a public hotspot) etc? thanks!!

 

OK, Now you see why NAS are a very nice when you need to share files with security in mind. Plus you can have remote access (ftp) if needed. I my case, I use VPN to connection to my router and have access to all network equipment and PC's that are on.

For subnets:

By def most all routers def to 192.168. 1.0/24, 192.168. 1.1/24 or 192.168. 0.1 with the Access point SSID as Linksys (mfg name). Some people change the SSID to Home/office ....

I like changing the 192.168. XXX.1/24 (24=255.255.255.0) where XXX is the subnet. Choose any number between 10 and 250. This setting is found under your LAN Settings (router). When you change it you will need disable the network port then re-enable it, do so will get the new IP address with the new subnet, sometimes repair works. You can also change the DHCP range if you like (I normally do). Once this is done you can set your personal firewall to only allow traffic for that subnet, you just setup. With most FW you have to option to allow the complete subnet or a range, or single individual IP. Now with all other subnet blocked you will be safer.

Now when you connect to a public hotspot hopefully it will have a IP that is not in your range. Most all FW will allow you to setup rules to control traffic. You can restrict what ports are used and block all of the back doors software companies use to check for updates or report to the mother ship. You have to becareful not to block IM or chat lines if you use them.

With Business class routers all outbound & inbound is blocked till you setup your rules to allow traffic. With a good software FW, look at the logs and see what traffic you have. This is why symatanious connects counts need to be know. I see std pc's uses any where from 20-50 ports open at any time, if you play games more. As you close the back doors they start looking for others to use. Most will tell you what program is looking to get out. With that info you can deside to allow or block. I block a lot of auto updaters, only running them monthly or after I have read what if does.

I had my FTP access by using a non std port, a number between 1024 and 65535. This hides it from most all scanners and the china hackers.

 

thanks so much for all that info. i probably wont do it right now, as i dont have the need to share files....sharing the printer is the reason for me networkign these computers. but in case i do, i know now how, and why. so thanks a lot for that. btw, sharing a printer involves no risk right? yeah im paranoid