Network based storage

Over the years, my family has developed such a large media library (movies mainly) that my current NAS (1TB) isn't sufficient Anymore. I want to move on to a more permanent solution that is able to expand with my increasing needs. I am aware of the WHS, but apparently, it may corrupt my files if I use certain programs to write to it, which wasn't very appealing. I also thought about building my own computer (or buying one) and use it as a server, but can't decide whether to put XP Pro, Windows Server 2003, or Ubuntu on it. I don't have much much experience with the second one, but considering it's specifically designed to run servers, it suit my needs better. Besides sharing files, I also need it to do one other thing: download torrents. I currently use an old computer to do this and also thought about turning it into a server, but I'm worried that it might be too slow (p4 2.4 ghz, 1gb ram). For torrents, I generally use uTorrent, which has the best (the only, I as far as i know) web interface for a torrent client. I want around 3TB of space, but I'm not sure how would I arrange this yet. So any ideas? Thanks a lot

 

Unless you actually have a domain, you don't need a server edition. You can use XP to manage your media files. Just make sure you give it an IP address.

Don't use the "server" machine to do downloads. Keep the same machine you have now.

 

No, I don't have a domain. The network settings are mostly left at their defaults (except, of course, for a few tweaks here and there) to save me additional headaches.

What do you exactly mean by "
Don't use the "server" machine to do downloads. Keep the same machine you have now."? I prefer to kept everything in one machine if possible>

 

Oh, I just remembered something: I use a software called My Movies to managed the films I have. It's a windows only program, so I guess that eliminates any possibility of using Ubuntu.

 

You can always use your ms pc with NAS storage. I would use raid5 storage so you have some redundency. You maw want to look at commercial/industrial class NAS, since most of these are expandable. If your pc needs to be redundent set it up with a Raid1.

 

I don't suppose you could recommend a commercial/industrial NAS?

 

What about a windows home server box. You can upgrade the drives in there, but i hear WHS is a great solution for your situation. I've been wishing i had more cash to buy a copy of WHS. However, i really like the HP home server boxes that already have WHS installed. They are small, upgradeable, power friendly, and quiet.

500gb
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/prod...AFEED->PRODUCTS&cm_ite=1 PRODUCT&cm_keycode=4

1000gb
http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-ex475-mediasmart-server-1tb-windows-home-server/q/loc/101/205466509.html

Im fairly certain they can run 4 drives:

so i would think you could get one to a high capacity pretty easy even while running them in a raid configuration. And they are able to use external drives also.

 

They seemed quite appealing until I heard that they may corrupt files if certain programs were used. I don't want spend a few days restoring my files everytime I use a incompatible program

 

Yeah i did hear about that too, which sorta turned me off. The fact that microsoft said that there would be no fix for it anytime soon either is upsetting.

 

Do you know if it's possible to load my own OS on there? If I could reformat with XP Pro, then it's definitely the most appealing option

 

Never mind about that. The thing doesn't even have a optical drive. There's no way it's going to support another OS

 

Knowing the way HP operates you want have drivers either. There are some server cases out there that can house 10+ drives. That would give you plenty of room for expansion. But server setups are anything but quiet.

 

Sure it could. There are 4 sata ports, just snag a sata optical drive. They are replacing ide optical drives anyways. The only problem i could for see is a possible driver issue, but i would think most new operating systems would be fine with it.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that will work since the "server" will be placed in the study.

 

anyone? -.-

 

If your using a true NAS, these connect via 10/100/1000baset connection. Location is not important, as long as it has a network connection. And the same goes for you Server. If you are using an old pc for your server, some of them can be pretty quite, provide that you open them up and clean the dust bunnies out atleast once a year.

I have over 2.6T of nas storage with my Snaps. But since these were design for a server room they can get quite loud and heats a room up pretty good. These are fully expandable using expansion units or iSCSI. I had to add a window unit to cool this room during the summer. These are not cheap units, design for heavy use, so most shy away from them for heavy use.

 

The professional equipments sounds like it's going to be more trouble than its worth. Anyhow, I have a D-Link DNS323 that connects via gigabit to my router (which is also gigabit). However, to me, speed is not as important as storage and safety of data (and not to mention effort, or rather, lack thereof). Price is relatively not a factor. Considering this, what is the easiest method I could do?

 

Since you have Software that requires a PC/server, you must at least have 1 pc. With large capacity drives, setup a 4 x 1T raid 5 array will yield approx 3t of space. Most all of the modern MB, supports raid5 and 8 drives. You can setup the OS on a RAID1, this could be a low capacity HD since all of the music and movies would be stored on a Raid 5 Array (4 x 1T). In any case you will need to fail drives to see how the recovery process works if a failure accours. Even on the Dlink you need to test. I would run a APC Smart-UPS on the server and NAS. I hope your NAS supports remote shut down. Auto startup is a nice feature too. The UPS can auto shutdown the server gracefully. Raid 5 arrays do not like being shut down improperly, particulary in the middle of writes. Which you should test too. Keep note so you will know what to do,, during panic mode. An please do not by maxtor drives. I have seen these fail within days of each other. Not giving you enough time to replace the failed drive before you loose the whole array. You still need to do backup even though you have redundant arrays. Does not cover catistropic failure.

I have all of these features are on my Snaps. It's nice during power outages, which is rare in my area but does happen. Including 1 APC Smart-UPS 1500VA with a network card that can remotely shutdown and startup all of my equipment when my battery backup gets low due to a failure.

 

Here's what I have currently:


1 x old 2.4ghz p4 desktop with 80GB internal drive (EIDE), 1GB RAM used exclusively for BT download

2x 500GB HD (maxtor and samsung)

1 x D-Link DNS-323 NAS (which holds the two 500GB HDs)

1x 320GB HD (seagate) though this drive exhibits excessive vibration (which may or may not be a sign of imminent failure). This drive is currently not in use and is collecting dust in my drawer.

1x Thermaltake esata/usb enclosure

1 x 500GB seagate hard drive (connected to my laptop via esata)

1x HP m9040n desktop (which I use as a HTPC) with a Q6600 cpu and 2x320 samsung HD connected (by wire) to the network


My question is, given the current equipment, what is the easiest way to expand my total network storage capability by 1-2TB? Besides storage, my main requirements are: 1. Quiet and 2. Safety. 3. expandability

*I don't believe my desktop can support raid, at least not without additional hardware.

*I use a program called My Movies on my HTPC, which requires a 'server' end. Also, I love torrents and my favorite client is uTorrent. This means that I must have at least 1 pc on the network running 24/7.

* I don't think power failure is a big concern since that has never happened for the 4 years that we've lived here. I think there might be some sort of generator in the garage, but I'm not completely sure.

 

You can't underestimate the value of redundancy.

I would buy a high end MB that has Raid5 support and at least 4 (prefer 8) sata ports. You don't need a killer cpu, but a couple gigs of RAM will help. You'll also need a big case.

Build the pc, set up for raid5 with at least 4 1TB drives, and install WHS. The corruption bug you're speaking of only affects computers with more than 1 HD visible to the OS. Since the raid array will appear as 1 drive to the OS you won't have that problem.

You'll get full PC backups for all of your other computers, data redundancy for everything on the server, and remote access to your files. Plug it all into a UPS and you'll be set for years to come!

 

Ideally, that's what I should be doing, but it's too much trouble. I need something simpler - something I can buy in store or online

 

How about a couple http://reviews.cnet.com/external-ha...station-home-server/4505-3190_7-31864376.html

Run them raid 1 so they would be 1tb each.

Basically your options are a nas box (like above). Windows home server box, professional server box, or build your own pc. You dont want any of those last 3, so just get a few of the regular nas's.

 

OK, lets look at this another way...

How important (monetarily and your time) is your data to you?
How much do you want to spend so you have a reliable, expandable, and easy to maintain solution?

 

I just priced a Dell PowerEdge 840 with raid 5 controller for $1000. Add WHS for $170 and 4-1TB drives. All you have to do is buy the OS and drives and install. It's a hardware controller so it would be much faster than on-board.

If you don't want to deal with it send me the money and I'll build it.

 

If someone could explain the potential difference between these 2 configuration, I'd very grateful.

1) Just stick a few 750GB-1TB HD's into my current "server" without raid or anything. Time = a few minutes

2) Buy a small, quite computer. Perhaps one of the Optiplex desktop ones with a internal storage of 2TB and expansion via Firewire, esata, or USB.


How dependent is transfer rate on cpu speed? Basically, if a p4 Northwood 2.4ghz cpu is sufficient to run 1) file transfers 2) a movie cataloging software 3) utorrent, then i'll just stick my current setup as it is the easiest.

My priorities are:

1) Minimal effort (thus, time)

2) Present storage and future expandability

3) Quite

4) ease of operation (say, if something goes wrong when I leave for college next year, could my technologically challenged parents fix the problem?)

I rather not get more NAS devices because they lack expandability (most only come with 2 bays) and ease of use (my current D-Link one is particularly creative in giving headaches)

 

If my current computer won't suffice for above stated purposes, perhaps one of these will?
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?catid=10607&logon=&langid=EN&MSCSProfile=

 

The cheapest one there ($320) is more than enough for your needs performance wise. For that matter your old 1.8Ghz is enough to run WHS on.

I know you're worried about time, but give some thought to raid 5 before you jump in. I mean how many hrs do you have in ripping CDs and DVDs alone?

 

I will. So, if I were to run raid 5 on my current computer (via pci raid controller) with three 1TB drive, what kind of transfer speeds would I get (assuming I'm using gigabit)? I know it won't be the full 125mb/s, but can I get something like 20mb/s? Also, will I have trouble connect sata drive to my system (which by itself doesn't have sata) via some like this? http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2329305&CatId=1454

Also, since there is still 1 ide port left on the mobo, can I plug in a 500GB IDE HD? I tried googling, but I'm still not sure whether it's going to going to be affected by the 137GB limit.

 

It's possible, but there are too many variables to give a figure. It will most likely be faster than what you are currently getting.

 

Never mind about the speed then. What about whether or not this setup will work?

 

Just adding a sata controller to your current pc will not give you RAID. You will need a raid controller to control the drives.

 

In any case, this should do right?

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2329305&CatId=1454


Or is there a better one you can suggest?

 

I used to have that card. Right now, it is in my trash can. I would not buy that card if I were you.

 

so which one would you suggest?

 

What is the maximum number of internal drive bays a computer will have? Right now, if my current computer won't negatively affect transfer speeds, then I see no point in getting a new one, unless I can put more HD's in. The current max is two (one is already occupied). I looked at a few dell ones and either they don't say or they says it's 2.


If what I said above is indeed correct, then the only 2 choices I see are:

1) stay with my current computer and add 1 international HD and more external ones

2) WHS

With WHS, I have a few more questions:

1) How serious is the bug? If I just accidentally used a "incompatible" problem once, does that corrupt all my drives?

2) When will it be fixed? I head dates ranging from june to december!

3) Can I install programs on there? i.e. can I install uTorrent or other programs

 

how silly of me! I forgot to mention that everything on these drives will be backed up to dvds, no need to worry about redundancy.

 

You're going to back up 2-3TB of info to DVD? WOW!

 

I think he meant to say the data is already on DVD so he does not need to back any thing up. So at this time he's against RAID, which is a big mistake. I guess he would rather spend a week restoring his data. If you need more than one HD to hold your data do not use RAID0 to span the drives. The likely hood of failure is twice as high and you loose all. Raid 0 has NO redundancy. Some NAS can bridge multiple drives making them appear as 1 and not be in raid.

 

If I'm not going to use RAID 5, why would I use raid 0? Anyhow, would the card that I linked to even support raid?

 

To clarify my position: raid or no raid, I need something simple, expandable, and easy to use. Price is not a huge concern. Whatever this may be, I need to be able to set it up in 2-3hr time.


My current idea, which do date has been the most promising, is to buy 2 3-port Sata/raid cards and 3X1TB drive and attach all of them to my existing desktop.

SATA/RAID cards I'm considering

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10074335&catid=21990#
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2329305&CatId=1454
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2254079&CatId=1455
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3501413&CatId=1455

Hard drives:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3529747&CatId=2459
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3346290&CatId=2459

 

anyone? -.-

 

The cards you selected do not support raid. I would buy a new computer that has a large enough case to house 4 HD's and supports Raid for and when you decide to use it. Or get a NAS that will support the latest high capacity drives and use your existing pc.

You have been given all of the options/info to make a decision. Time to bite the bullet and do it.

 

I have a Hp MediaSmart Server running Windows Home Server, my box has a full load of drives and let me confirm one thing with you people, that corruption bug is a nasty one, I have done alot of testing with it and my conclusion was to shut it down till the fix comes for it, at first when I got this thing, everything seemed to be fine, but thats only if you run one drive, add a second or more then things get interesting, the problem seems to comming from the drive extender, there are more issues also (just to many to list), Im also in talks with HP, to send my box back for a refund, Im not going to wait months for a fix, MS can damn well fix the problem, then maybe I will buy the box again, the bottom line here is, stay away from Windows Home Server and any box it comes in, wait for the fix and confirmation that the fix actually works.
P.S If anybody is interested, I can start a new thread on WHS, listing my full experiance with it and what I have been through, warning, its going to be a big write, so if any interest, reply here and I will write.

 

But the problem is, I could find one (a computer with 4-6 HD bays)!

 

I showed you the Dell PowerEdge earlier in the thread.

Tell us exactly how much you want to spend (USD) and I'm sure we'll get you several working solutions.

And, I did offer to build it for you if time is that much of an issue.

 

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3645858&Sku=P450-9102%20N


How much effort is required to put together that thing? and why is it so cheap? I'm willing to spend $800 (this is just a random figure that I thought was reasonable and can be subject to change if the need arises) not including extra storage.

 

You will need to add , cpu fan, HD's, DVD and OS to the price. Since it only has 4 SATA you will need an EIDE DVD drive. And you may want to get a KVM to share your monitor/KB/mouse. If your going to run MS OS buy it with the hardware and get the OEM pricing.

The first time you set on up from scratch will take you longer. But Normally less than 1 hr. Setting up RAID requires you to load drivers prior to loading the OS. There are may forums covering this. If you can read and follow the instructions you will not have any problem. YOu will spend more time installing OS & software.

 

Get a hold of John Colby. He has good raid 5 level knowledge and is currently running R5 and WHS. - http://www.colbyconsulting.com/

I will tell you that onboard raid is a different bird than a good raid card

 

The good raid cards cost $1000+ with onboard CPU. Most all low cost cards are the same as the builtin raids on MB. Software RAID. Even most commercial NAS's uses Software raid since their deicated units.

 

I would be interested in hearing your experiences with it.