Media Extender or HTPC?

So sometimes I get these ideas in my head and they usually dont go away until I what I want to do.

In this case I really want to build a server, right now looking at building a cheap PC and using windows home server. It will host and backup my files.

Thats part one, but part two of it is that I would really like to be able to que up any of my music or movie collection in the living room on the TV and I am just trying to think of the best way to do this.

Windows Home Server supports that function from media center to work with media extenders, also with a new add on I think it does some other streaming that may work with other equipment.

So I am just trying to weigh out the pro's / con's.

Media Extender
Pros:
> Small
> Family will be able to use it like a normal part of the entertainment system
> Probably good on power & heat

Cons:
> I think its limited to types of media it works with
> Have not really found one yet but they look expensive

HTPC
Pros:
> Well its a computer, so it can do anything no worries
> Maybe can be cheap, but probably not if I go with a htpc case & matx

Cons:
> Would need mouse/keyboard and more space than what I have probably, to built it like a true htpc will cost a lot.
> Have to deal with computer hassles like OS issues, may use more resources like space/energy ect.
> Family would not use it probably other than me

If I am not mistaken is there not just some wireless streaming devices that will give me what I want with none of the hassles? Not one that acts like a media extender witch is what I keep finding when I look on google for one. Meaning that it remotly accesses your files and can only read certian kinds of content. I want a genuine device that just can take your audio/video out from your pc and convert it wirelessly to an output for your tv. I read that wireless is not good for video streaming, I understand that for 720 and 1080 probably but most of my stuff is DVD quality and I would think that with a "N" network and not B/G that even HD stuff would stream just fine. Id have to que up what I want to see on my computer in my room, but ultimately may be the easiest to setup & use if what I want exists, and hopefully cheapest.

So looking for suggestions and help with my setup, this is my planning phase the $$$ is not there for the building phase

 

you can built a cheap htpc, and if you set it up right, buy a tv tuner($30-100) and a media center remote ($20-50, might be included with tv card) anybody can use a htpc, (windows media center in vista is really easy to use)

 

Dont need a TV tuner, or rather no use for one. Our premium tv service is Direct TV, last I checked it is not compatible with any kind of TV tuner so you have to use a DTV receiver.

Unless you mean take the output from the receiver and run it through the pc but thats kind of taking a step back and then would force everything to run through the pc and I would not want that. Id rather just swap input to the HTPC on the TV for when I want to see a movie on the network so it wont effect all the other stuff and can stay in sleep when not in use.

I know with cable that your solution streamlines pretty well.

If I find the HTPC route to be the best, I may just use a laptop
Heck my G50V already has everything for the job, if I can just set up a little docking area for it as long as I do not mind the hassle of hooking it up when I want to use it, its a pretty much free solution for now and a good way to test the waters.

 

I say go with an xbox 360 extender, it's easy to use with a universal remote and it has 2 ways to access files. Through the dashboard and through the mediacenter extender. Plus if you have a good programmable remote you can set it to turn on straight int MCE or Dashboard depending on your preferences. I bought mine mainly for this reason to replace my old XBMC which was less compatible with Vista so I could continue playing stored videos from my PC in my livingroom.




I've tried using a HTPC and the 360 as a media center extender and niether come close to the capability or elegance that the original XBMC has.

 

2 x post....

 

the way I have it:

I have the cable box connected to both the tv, and pc tv tunner, when I want to record something I do it on the pc, or when I want to run the tv in a pc window, its also cool that you can pause live tv on media center(u probably know that ) its great to have a pc running 24/7 with a tv card, u can use programs like "orb" that will let u stream your home live tv anywhere in the world online, or just all the videos on your network, you can also set up an ftp/printer server/ NAS storage/ torrent server/ and use a VNC(I use ultravnc) to connect to it any time you want

 

Thought about it, problem I had is that again only some kinds of files are supported. I have a lot of anime and stuff and that kind of video is usually encoded in odd formats that most extenders will not support. Also Id never play the 360 but the cost for one is probably about the same as your average extender I guess, so if it works just as well its a valid option.

I thought about getting a used 360 on ebay (saw one earlier from a good seller for $140 with accessories) and use the 30% cash back so it would only cost about $100.

 

Yeah, that's the point. The price of an extender = the cost of a 360 plus features are being added all the time. Xvid/Divix support was added, and now I'm looking forward to being able to stream Netflix movies to it as well.

Anyway, I've done both the HTPC route and the mediacenter extender routes and they both have their benefits. Like you I don't have any issues working with a PC to stream movies and home videos to my livingroom. My wife on the other hand never used the HTPC, but uses the 360 as a media center extender (the purpose I bought it for) all the time. That's the reason I suggested it, ease of use.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Xbox media center extender does support WOL.

 

I'm waiting until Directv releases its USB tuner before building my HTPC again. It looks pretty sweet.

 

so DTV is finally loosening there death grip? You will have to share that with me when you get it and I would appreciate any links to specs/pricing.

I have to upgrade the connector on my dish to add another signal output, forget what that piece of equipment is called, I just know its way too expensive for what it is

I do not watch any TV other than cartoons all day with the kids, but if I can DVR it and record stuff to watch later, then I may actually be able to get into some stuff.

Im having my doubts about Media Center... I opened it up for the first time on my desktop in over a year and over half my movies wont play in it, if its lacking codecs that badly right on my PC where I already have the codecs installed... then an simple extender has to be even worse.

Looks like you can go to a Microsoft page and download some codecs for it, dont know if they will have what I need. Still tho the extender (the 360 in this case) wont make use of the codecs on the computer so it wont really matter anyways.

I'll take us off topic for a second. If I do get a cheap 360 at some point, I will also have to invest in the wireless adapter, that thing MSRPs for $100! know off the top of your head a valid and same or better quality adapter for less (may as well get "N" too if I am getting it new if its same price range) I know there are standard AP's and stuff that work with the consoles and your not forced to buy the overpriced branded versions.

 

Smallnetbuilder ran some test on streaming video, I would recommend you find those test and look at the performance before you decide. If I recall there was a lot of problems on the high def side even with 11n speeds.

 

I got my Buffalo wireless converter for $20AR from CC. I installed DD-WRT on it (mostly for fun) and haven't had to mess with it since. The M$ adapter is a waste of money.

 

Buffalo is what I use for my router actually WAY better than anything I ever had from dlink or linksys. Shame they are having some issues in there company, some kind of lawsuit or something.

It supports DD-WRT but the normal firmware was so good I never bothered to change it.

http://www.buffalotech.com/products...uter-and-access-point-with-high-gain-antenna/

Was cheap (on sale for like $30 I think, but now they go for over $100 due to said lawsuit) Insane signal power and never a single issue with it.

So whats the one your using with the 360?

Edit, nevermind google told me
Its a function of the firmware, not the router so any router that can use DD-WRT will work. I thought you had an actual adapter and I couldn't find it so thats why I asked.

I know the Nintindo DS usb adapter is popular for modding stuff. Shame tho I had no idea that the 360 did not come with wireless until I saw the adapter and was reading into the media extender stuff. My little wii has it and does just fine.

 

QFT!

I was trying to google my router and converter so I could show what you could get for a good price. I was wondering why they were showing up with such a high price tag. I know I got both my router and converter for less than $60 and they are good products. It sucks that they're now selling with a 300%+ mark-up.

 

Linksys products these days are.... meh. I used to have their MIMO wifi-g router which worked wonderfully, got 3/4 bars of signal strength in my room. When that finally died I got a WRT350N. It had issues when both wireless G and N devices are connected. Replaced that with a WRT600N. Now, whenever the Microwave or phone is being used, I get no signal strength in my room. not fun.

 

I had been using my modded Xbox with an original MS Xbox remote as my media player until I finally got around putting together a Shuttle SN25P to be my new HTPC. For a remote, I just reused my old ATi Remote Wonder and a Logitech Media Board. Plays everything I want so it works for me. Still needs tweaking though.

There is something you could try if you have to time to test it out. TVersity apparently works on the Wii among other consoles.

A couple of codec packs will solve that. With these, you should be able to play almost everything out there:

CCCP - Combined Community Codec Pack
Lazy Man's MKV
Real Alternative Lite
Quicktime Alternative Lite

Actually, CCCP and MKV should be all you need.

I know people like using the Linksys WRT54GL and flashing it with DD-WRT. I bought one but I haven't tried setting it up yet but it's suppose to work well with the Xbox 360.

 

Good post purehazzard, one thing thoug. Media Center does not use the same codecs as the rest of the system. Thats what I was referring too.

I normally use CCCP, and I can play all my files in Windows Media Player, Zoom Player, Media Player Classic ect. Media Center though has its own separate codecs for what ever reason and I have not found a way to force it to use the ones already in your system. However when searching for that information I did find that there is an offical MS page that has some of the mainstream codecs avalable for Media Center, Xvid and stuff like that but still some of those anime files wont play they use rather odd coding sometimes.

I have to look into that TVersity deal, I wonder how well the wii can handle streaming video. Id actually not mind relocating the wii from my room to the living room anyways.

 

Vicious, you can tell VMC to use different codecs for playback. You need this tool:

http://mediacenterexpert.blogspot.com/2006/07/vista-media-center-decoder-utility.html

Personally, I use ffdshow. I stay away from all other codec packs. On my HTPC machine, I installed ffdshow and configured it for my system (here's a great guide: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041), and then told VMC to use a specific codec to have the best playback quality for my DVD vob files with the VMC decoder utility.

I've read that you can use Orb and turn the Wii into a media extender. I'll be doing that after Christmas, when Santa delivers a Wii to my boys!

 

Cool will look into Orb too. It looks like it works EXACTLY like TVersity does. Except you have to have an accout with them.

TVersity is more of a for fun thing tho as I read it does not have really high quality with the wii and will not work with large video files (so dont plan on watching movies) and its due to the limited memory of the wii and how it handles flash (TVersity has your main pc transcode your movies into flash 9)

So maybe Orb does not have the same problem. I can test it all pretty easy when I find some time at home. My PC & Wii are both hooked up in my room to my 37" Monitor and I can just toggle between them or even use PIP

 

I have used both tversity and orb. I use TVersity for my HD20-100 directv Reciever, and it works fine streaming 720p over a 1GB ethernet connection. I tested it with a Blu-Ray rip of Bourne Ultimatum. ORB I use with my cell phone, watching my movies and shows over an evdo connection.

 

Well there is an idea, wonder if my existing DTV receiver can do this. I dont think so tho. Its a pretty basic model.

Im assuming your receiver can go online and do some sort of browsing and must also have a hard drive.

Im still looking forward to the tuner card for DTV thats something I wanted forever, id rather finally have access to the satellite in my room and be able to record stuff, than watch my computer stuff in the living room.

 

DTV is waiting for the WMC update before releasing the Pc tuner, due to new copy protection code. I have the HD-DVR and it is awesomes!

 

Wonder how much that thing is gonna cost, I just looked it up, its pretty expensive looking ;P

 

+1 for orb. I've been using it for quite some time to stream, watch, and record tv shows from home PC. I don't remember if I've ever tried TVersity as I did try a lot of software when I first bought my tuner card.

 

Just decided to do a random ebay search for media extender and ran across this: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Linksys-Media-Center-Extender-DMA2100_W0QQitemZ170265660825QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170265660825&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A2|66%3A4|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

$110 - 30% possibly with cash back. (free shipping to boot, strange .m14 url so you have to copy & paste it)

I then googled up reviews and it looks like at launch it has a few bad things, but firmware updates have come through it and is doing well now.

Significantly faster than the 360, plays xvid & divx nativly, has wireless N built in already, super small footprint and no noise.

Other nice things, already has a remote, no waiting for the 360 to boot and running through all those windows. I think this is just what I wanted.

I even found that there is a device that does direct wireless video feed too: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AITech-ProA-V-Media-Extender-06-078-002-08_W0QQitemZ400002815852QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item400002815852&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A2|66%3A4|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I have no idea how good this unit is, but its nice too know its out there, you would have to que up and play stuff from the PC but atleast you know there will be ZERO issues with what can play and how it plays, since its your computer directly doing everything rather than some extender and your just feeding the video & audio wirelesly.

I think if anything I would be more prone to get the linksys extender right now than the 360, more of what I want and less of what I dont.

I also solved the codec issue on the PC with WMC, since I use vista x64 I have to have x64 codecs for the program to use them. WMP & MPC ect all use x86 codecs. I found this download fixed it all in a snap: http://www.majorgeeks.com/VistaCodecs_x64Components_d5535.html

 

Even with 802.11n, you'll notice lag. It's a problem with all current wireless models. Besides, with the volume of data that will be transferred, it's better to have a wired connection. When I break down and buy one (right now we just have the Christmas present Wii that will connect as a media extender for my boys' room) I'll be looking for GigE and vob support. When I rip my movies, I don't worry about space, since it's cheap to add another 750MB drive to my WHS, and my kids just love all the special features on the DVDs, so vob support is necessary for me.

Regarding the price on eBay - you can buy one from Newegg for $114, and you don't have to worry about the "no warranty" problem with eBay stores.

 

Id take the 30% cash back over a no warranty plus is NIB so it should have a warrenty.

I read into it people said even 1080 was ok over wireless N, but I would not be playing more than an occasional 720p, all my movie rips are going to be encoded to 700mb using autogk and that usually cuts the res down to just under DVD (great quality still just like dvd but mutch smaller space)

I like the extender idea, the HTPC just would not fit as well I think.. but somebody tossed me an idea that was neat. The EEE Box as a HTPC.

Since its ultra small, uses no power makes no heat/noise its pretty much perfect for HTPC. Has wireless N already. Only issue is that the atom is only good for 720p, it wont handle 1080 and $300 is still too much for it I think.

The flip side of course is absolutely no issues with file formats or compatibility, and would even have internet in the living room.

Would have to get a wireless mouse (V450 nano was cheap only $13 not long ago and has advertised 1 year battery life)

I do agree that wired is the safe route, but I need wireless, I cant really run a cable in the atic where I need to go its in the corner of the house (Not even floor there its a very old house) Plus if i was going to run a cable, I would just run a video/audio feed from my PC and only spend like $30 for the wire instead of any kind of extender or htpc.

 

I thought about a similar thing a short while ago when the Atom desktops were released. You can probably build one yourself.

ECS 945GCT-D Intel Atom FCBGA 437 Intel 945GC Mini-DTX 200x170mm Motherboard/CPU Combo - Retail @ $69.99 after $15 MIR
APEX MI-100 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply - Retail @ $49.99

You can always reuse an old hard drive or optical drive, maybe add in a ATi-based 2400 Pro PCI and you've got a decent media center. I would just toss in an old 40GB or 80GB 2.5" hard drive myself along with a DVD Writer.

These are just quick links and does not reflect the lowest prices online but you get an idea of pricing.

 

Super great idea, the mobo looks good, no wireless is the only major loss there. Plus wth a pci-e slot I can upgrade to a cheap dedicated graphics later if needed too.

That case looks kinda big though and people are saying temps are way too high. I suppose thats one big advantage of the EEE Box is that it is about as small as you can get. I like to build stuff so much though that I may end up building my own unless I can find a great deal on pre-built.

If anything I would wait for the dual core atom, should be here soon and probably has enough power to handle 1080p, if not I can get cheap dedicated and use hardware acceleration.

 

Actually, the Atom mobos currently only have an ancient PCI slot as oppose to PCI Express.

Really? I thought it was a decent case since I saw it at [H], " Wiretap's High Definition in a Small Package mini-ITX Project," a while back. Atoms should run pretty cool though.

Apex does make slimmer case but maybe a little longer that are mATX. They have some of the least expensive "small" cases.

I though dual core Atoms are already available. They sell them at one of our Canadian store here, which, incidentally, also sells to the US. A couple of weeks back before our Canadian dollar plummeted, the single core/mobo + case was $100 CAD and the dual core/mobo was $120 CAD (might have been $110, can't remember).

 

Hmm I dunno, newegg only has that one mobo with an atom and I do not think they are like normal cpu that you can buy and install on your own, I know the EEE's have them soldered to the mobo.

I'll look around for a dual core model and see how much it is, EEE Box $300 on ebay = $200 with 30% cash back so thats one think to keep in mind and thus the limit for a DIY HTPC needs to be under $200 or have benifits that make it worth the difference.

 

Ok guys I am going the HTPC route!

I picked my parts: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11010688

Total is looking pretty good, I am lacking a optical drive because I do not really think I need one. The DVD player we have now is one that has its own amp & speakers so I doubt anybody would want to to replace it and I will just add a nice BR/HD-DVD drive later when they are cheap. (plus I am going to rip every dvd onto the hard drive anyways with my desktop)

Looking for feedback on the build, and the only other really "important" thing am missing is a TV tuner card.

There are no cards that can directly receive Direct TV at this moment that I can find. I found some mods for the box but they are like $500 so thats not gonna happen.

I have two options, Just use it as is and toggle between the video inputs on the TV, one will be for the HTPC to watch movies/music/pictures and the other for watching Satellite TV.

Or if somebody can tell me a cheap capture/tuner card that I can hook up the signal from the DTV box and let it run through the HTPC and will integrate into Windows Media Center, I will definitely go that route.

I would assume if all works right you could just use the "Watch TV" from the interface of WMC and it would then display the live analog signal coming from the DTV box and possible even allow me to capture it so I can use the HTPC as a somewhat limited TIVO (pause,rewind, record ect but only manually)

I really would like help picking a card that can do that.

 

Guess what? DTV just released Directv2PC, which is an app that allows you to watch the recordings on a HD-DVR on a pc. Its pretty nifty!

 

Thats half way there lol, do not have a DVR and that would not work with live television but its a start.

Edit: Think I found what I need: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100014

works in WMC, has low profile, its expensive but it comes with a remote so I can remove my existing remote from the setup and use this.

 

Looks pretty good it also has an IR sender so you could control your DTV box. If you get it let me know how you like it. I'm looking at adding another tuner card so I can record multiple shows.

 

But it does do live tv! Its pretty cool. i was watching tv on ly laptop about 3 rooms away from my actual tv.

 

An update,

First of all here is my parts list: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11010688

I have gone through all the TV cards and narrowed it down to this one for being the best in value & quality: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815293002

It was mainly going up against the Haupaage (spelling) 1800 card. The Asus has better overall reviews and I found a AV forum post where somebody owned the Asus & the 1800 and he said the Asus was better in quality, had a better remote, and more stuff came in the package so it was no contest.

The main problem is every site, resource, person, ect have all notated the seamless integration with Media Center using the TUNERS. Everybody uses a tuner card to tune there stations, but since I am stuck with Direct TV and there proprietary signal I will not even be using the tuners on these expensive tuner cards but just the line-in (s-video) so the big question is, does the line-in work in WMC??? I have my doubts.

So I may just have to play it safe and spend a bit more for a piece of equipment that does exactly what I need (plus a bit more)

The HAVA - http://myhava.com/product_hava_gold_30.html?gclid=CJWyiZCnxJYCFQRhswodIFSOzA

The HAVA unfortunately is not an internal card, its like a small box but it has a ton of inputs & outputs including pass through (so I can still use the TV without the HTPC that may come in handy)

So what it does exactly is convert ANY video input into a MPEG2 (local) or MPEG4 (internet) stream and send it to your entire network.

Then on the software side on your PC (and HTPC in this case) it creates a virtual tuner for Media Center to allow you to view the streamed content.

It even has virtual remotes that match your normal remote and the IR blaster so you can change stations and stuff.

So no wasting money for a tuner that I cant use, but I am still wasting money on the streaming over LAN/WAN technology that I really do not need. Unfortunately they do not offer just a simple plug & play for one device only type model. The Platinum starts at $150 MSRP for wired LAN only and then the WIFI model is $250 MSRP.

So I KNOW the HAVA will work, but its more expensive, and not quite as streamlined because I would have to have the small box and also it has to be hooked to a DHCP enabled router/switch, or I can hook it directly to the HTPC with a crossover cable but then the rest of my network wont see it (I do not have a wired network to the HTPC anyways).

The wired versionis all I need for for the HTPC but the primarly function of the HAVA is to let "placeshift" and watch TV anywhere on your network or even the internet so I may just splurge and get the wireless one so it can be sent to my router. Then I could watch the DTV in my room on my desktop with the big 37". That unit is like $250 though. I figure I will get it on ebay with the 30% cash back. (saw it for $170ish - 30% cash back is like $120ish)

So new problem though. If I get the wireless one it will stream the signal from the HAVA about 60/70 feet over to my router 2 rooms over, and then the signal has to come all the way back to the HTPC, sort of pointless when its already right next to the HTPC and that would have to induce lag and reduce the quality some. So I really wish the HAVA was able to do wired & wireless both at the same time. The highest unit the one that has the wireless does have wired ports, but when you run your setup its setup as one or the other. Not sure if I can find a way to make it do both.

So now I have to take the chance with a tuner card that may not work and be paying for tuners I wont even use, or get the Wired HAVA for just the HTPC and be overpaying just a bit more than the Tuner but have piece of mind knowing it will work perfectly for what I want (and can easily hook other stuff too it too), or Get the Wireless HAVA and possibly gain the ability to watch my DTV anywhere at any time but it may have a negative effect on the HTPC having to go through wireless for the signal.

 

But can you do this?

 

Yeah it could

So your saying that software works for live TV not just recordings. But you still need a compatible DTV STB and that do not have

I want it integrated into WMC though thats my main goal so I can just leave the HTPC on and it will have WMC open at all times.

I could spend the money on a new DTV STB for a beta program that may or may not get off the ground and it would only be good for my DTV, or get the HAVA that is a neutral unit that works or any audio/video source so it can stay with me for all of time and intergrate itself into any system I ever have, be it a new DTV unit, fios, playstation 3, ect.

If you already have the STB it works with its worth a shot but if your having to buy it, I dont think its a good option.