Best range wireless cards? MAC changes possible?

Hi!
Are there any comparisons (based on objective/scientific criteria) for wifi cards? I can only find ads and opinions.
I am shocked with the wifi performance of my brand new Intel 8265 in a MSI GS63VR. My old Intel Centrino 6300 is so far superior that it is hard to believe.
The new card only shows about 15 wifi networks, while the old one shows more than twice as many in same location - and I can connect to and use most of those with the old laptop, while I can't even connect to any of those with the 8265!

It's mostly a range problem for me, although stability and throughput are closely related.

I wanted to quickly switch the old card into the new laptop to find out if it's the card or antennas; only to realize, that the connector has changed (mPC - m.2 ?).

Which other card should I buy to replace the crappy 8265? Are there any cards that allow free MAC settings under Windows7? Intel cards are all restricted. I don't mind an old one, it's all about range.

Thanks a lot!

 

Kinda hard to compare two different cards in two different laptops as the antenna layout can make a huge difference by itself along with roaming preferences. I suppose you could try the QCA6174A by Qualcomm better known by the third party rebrand as the Killer 1535 as it seems Qualcomm fixed the driver issues according to some. In general both the 8265 and 6174A should have roughly the same range and speeds. If buying the QCA card just buy it without the Killer rebrand if cheaper as the drivers and hardware are exactly the same only difference with Killer is that QoS suite which is more a detriment that a boon.

On a side note I found the 9260ac to outperform both the 8265ac and 6174A. But some people seem to have issues with different models be it QCA or Intel due to various issues including laptop bios, antenna layout etc so it’s for you to experiment and figure out which works best in your setup. I’m usually more favorable to Intel because in my experience their cards have always worked well out of the box and have always been pretty reliable without much tweaking for me and many others I know.

 

The reason why MSI is doing considerably worse is because it doesn't have antennas in the screen assembly. The only thing there apart from the screen is the camera.
So the antennas are somewhere in then main unit an as such the reception will never be really good.

 

Yes, they are on top of the base in the rear between the screen hinges under a thin plastic cover - everything else is metal. But it's hard to believe this is the reason for the bad performance. After all they are just 22cm lower than on my old laptop where they are in the top of the display but otherwise same position and distance.

I could shorten the antenna cable on the MSI by 18cm for the left antenna - it's unnecessarily detour-routed (presumably to be same length as right antenna). Any idea if that would help or hinder - is there an electric reason for them to be same length (like RAM traces on circuit boards)?

 

Well it is the reason - it's not the first laptop I see this in.
Part of the reason is the placement itself and part is that the antennas as they are located are not subject to interference from computer components that wouldn't interfere with the signal if the antennas were located elsewhere - 22cm is plenty in that regard.

Changing the way the cable is router won't help much, if at all.

 

Especially with plastic covered laptops when they are high up on either side there is no obstruction to the signal from almost any direction. Signal is radiated in a circular to donut shape on the perpendicular to the antenna. Imagine a lollipop if you will, versus when its in the base you have it closer to other sources of interference and other things in the way from certain angles. You will get lower range this way. Some laptops like the Dell XPS and MacBook Pro have it right below the display where the antennas terminate into the antenna bar thingy in the lower display bezel. However if it's in the chassis area then that's just terrible placement, because it could end up being significantly more directional and positioning your laptop would then have a huge impact.

Side Note:
FYI high gain antennas are more more donut shaped and more directional vs standard omni directional antennas which are more spherical in signal propagation. So when people say buy large high gain antennas to improve signal, that only works if you are on the same floor, for multiple floors it would be terrible.

 

@Molvol

Switch to the Killer 1535 and enjoy max range. You will thank me later.

 

He’s comparing 2 different cards in two different laptops. If antenna is in the chassis in the new MSI he’s not going to get much better range. The cards hardware wise perform relatively close to each other.

Good antenna placement is usually in the display frame terminating at the top or at the lower bezel of the display frame.

Range depends on the antenna as well, not to mention his old 6300n was a 3x3 card vs the other two which are 2x2 cards. The newer cards will be faster but the older card would have better signals sure to that extra antenna.

 

Yes it will make a difference. Re-read this entire thread to see how my range is way better with the 1535 vs the 1550 AKA Intel 9260 which has the exact same crappy range s the Intel 8265. Yes, I have all these cards in my drawer and have tested them all. Go figure.

Start from Page 1: Killer Wireless-AC 1550 Review

 

Yes but each laptop is different, I gave you my own examples of the opposite. It just means your laptop is not good with the 8265/9265, doesn’t mean others will have issues as it’s system dependent. If you search the Internet you will probably fine 2-3 people hating the QCA card for every Intel one. But in the end most of it is due to the internal differences of the laptops and APs in use. Both cards are within FCC limits of power levels so there won’t be drastic differences. If there are it’s down to the laptops antenna placement/orientation and bios and power delivery differences.

FYI this one of the main reasons Intel and others refuse to give proper support for self upgrades of WiFi cards as they are meant more for system integrators and vendors. People simply fail to realize compatibility issues due to various factors.

 

I'm telling you, with the same antenna setup, on my MSI laptop, the range difference between the Killer and Intel Card is way stronger for the Killer. that is with the same antenna setup that the OP has since it's an MSI.

Let him try my suggestion and I guarantee you and him it will make a night and day difference. I am willing to put my money on it. The card is only 25-30 USD only so it's well worth a try.

 

Yeah that’s what I’m saying certain antenna setups benefit certain cards. Some laptops hate both Intel and QCA cards and work best with the BRCM43602 by Broadcom for example. I also told him to try the QCA6174A - non branded to see if it works better in that case. The BRCM43602 is a 3x3 card and is also pretty good though you can uses it as a 2x2 unit a third antenna would make it better, it’s also commonly known as the Dell wireless 1830A.


Plus OP was comparing the 3x3 6300n vs a 2x2 card and the extra antenna in the old one helps for better signal. I’m certain on 2.4Ghz it would beat both the 9260/6174A-1535 thanks to the extra antenna even on 5Ghz in N mode, obviously not ac as it doesn’t support it. My old Dell Latitude 6230 had the 6300n. If he wants a 3x3 card Broadcom is the only route. He will get MacBook Pro like WiFi performance (they use BRCM 3x3 cards). Those older cards hit 90+ MB/s without even HT160 thanks to the extra antenna vs ~75-80 MB/s on the 9260ac on HT80 and 100-114 MB/s on the 9260ac at HT160.

You can bet as much as you want but a comparable quality 3x3 card will have better signal than a 2x2 card assuming all antennas are connected and compared in the same laptop.

 

Thanks guys, that is a lot of interesting info!
I think I'll try the Broadcom just for the heck of it, probably not the Killer first as googling for that one brings up hundreds of problem reports with latency and wifi instability. Or should I just go and get a USB wifi adapter because it will way outperform any internal solution?
One more thing I'm really curious about. I wish there was a page explaining wifi HF and those tiny little "circuit board" antennas or bent metal pieces.

If I use a 3×3 Broadcom, can I just get any wifi antenna from ebay and add it somewhere on the laptop? Why are the existing antennas usually labelled main and aux, have different cable colors yet look exactly the same? I read the main one is also for bluetooth, but it looks exactly the same.

 

You can use a standard laptop antenna, despite the labels they’re pretty much the same. Aux and Main have more to do with the antenna positioning and diversity in firmware. Also if only using one antenna a person would for example only connect to Main. FYI Killer doesn’t make any WiFi cards or even drivers the 1535 is a Qualcomm 6174A rebrand and the 1550 is a Intel 9260ac rebrand. Drivers are also stock Qualcomm Atheros and Intel drivers. Only thing Killer makes is that terrible QoS suite.

Here’s more info on the Broadcom BCM43602 (Dell Branded)
https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Dell_Wireless_1830_(DW1830)
Here is the Broadcom branded version (Same card)
https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Broadcom_BCM943602BAED

MacBook Pros use a variant of the same card above.

 

It's been a while but I finally solved all the problems involving shipping to Canada (what a nightmare) and installed a DW1830 into my GS63VR. Couldn't find Broadcom drivers, only Dell, and those are from 2016....

Anyway it worked right away without problems. As for improvement with only the 2 built in antennas it's noticeable but not clear cut. The speed and stability to one router on 2.4GHz is now a different world - it's fast and stable - much better than through the repeater I had to use with the Intel before.

However, I'm still nowhere near the 8570w performance with Intel 4965 agn. I still can't see many of the networks, that the HP can see and I can't connect to the weaker ones like with the HP.
I also had interference problems and wifi interruption when using a 2.4GHz wireless headset, which seems to cooperate better with the Broadcom.
I'll keep the Broadcom in there and maybe when another wifi antenna arrives I'll try to find a spot for it on the GS63VR - but that is hardly possible.