About the guys next door wireless modem

Rite i want some help on this one the guy next door is running some power house wireless modem,The thing is it is unblocked for people like me 2 hog net speed of.So iam lookin 2 know if this is fraud,and 1 more thing this guy hates me and i f**kin hate him with all my guts.So if he did know i was on it would it still b fraud[?].I checked out his modem on the net but i dont think he has anyway of knowin iam on it (judgein what people and my computer m8s and me say).

So like i say people is this fraud of me useing his waves threw my 4 inchs of brick [?]

 

Well, it's certainly noe fraud, but you may be breaking other laws. I'm not exactly sure which one(s) but I've read before that it's illegal to use someone else's access point.

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cheers for the info abaxter

 

Alright, I dug into this some more, it's definitely not legal to connect to and use someone else's access point.

This falls under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, which is federal - http://www.panix.com/~eck/computer-fraud-act.html

Many states also have laws on the books -
http://nsi.org/Library/Compsec/computerlaw/statelaws.html

In the end it's hard to prove, even harder to prosecute, but you have to wrestle with those ethical issues yourself. It is a felony though if you want to roll the dice.

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this sort of thing happens all the time, but technically and by law it is not allowed.

 

cheers 2 brian for the info[ ]

 

it is technically illegal

most routers have a log in which you can see history of what computers have accessed the netwotk. (used mostly for administrative concerns. If guy next door wasn't smart enough to secure his network, chances are he doesnt know how to access this log or interpert it. So tecnically he CAN see if you are on the network

 

The majority of home networks operate unmonitored and unsecured. They don't realize it, until someone tells them. Seemingly, everyone just plug n plays, more or less.

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Stealing is still stealing, even if the person robbed doesn't miss what you take. Use your head.

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Its not stealing,its called sharing [ ]
You have not deprived your neighbhor of his radiowaves.
Is there any law against someone being bombarded with unwanted radiowaves from next door ??
Its like being forced to smell others fart or smoke [ ][ ][ ]







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follow your nose

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You can always play dumb and say you thought you were on your own network.[:I]

 

Receiving the benefits without consent while someone else pays is at the very least not nice. I doubt that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act applies to you since you are in Northern Ireland. You may want to check into your local laws. Good Luck.






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You want to really piss him off, start moving his files around or make slight changes like the wallpaper.

 

zazonz

Like I said if someone else is smoking and and you are inhaling the same smoke ,you have not taken his consent and you have not paid for his cigarette [ ]

If that joker had any sense , he would encrypted his modem [ ]



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I have more than half a dozen wireless signals in my neigbourhood and only one has the security up.

I tried to connect to some of them with my PocketPC and some worked while others didn't mainly because of very weak signals. Couldn't figure out though whom they belong to let them know. Maybe I try to do that when it warms up. I guess it would be suspicious to walk around the hood in front of houses to surf the web.[:I]

One word of caution. Our cable internet provider has just capped the bandwidth to 60 GB per month. So if your neighbour has a service with a cap and you use his bandwidth and it exceeds the limit he has to pay for it and he will eventually check into it where all the GB are going.

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by lapboy

Like I said if someone else is smoking and and you are inhaling the same smoke ,you have not taken his consent and you have not paid for his cigarette

If that joker had any sense , he would encrypted his modem

<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'></font id='quote'></blockquote id='quote'>


That is assuming I wanted to smoke. Isn't that like saying it is OK to rob someone if they put their money in their wallet and not the safe.





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<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by zazonz

 

not really, unless they charge you if you go over your limit.
For one unlike money most people never come close to being able to use all of it at once to affect another person. We have 4 heavy users on one cable connection with no effect on our pings.
For another the wireless all have the ability to turn on at least a little bit of security that would make it not worth the hassle for a lot of people. If they really cared the setup tutorials always show how to turn this on.
So unless they have a cap of xgb per month it really wont affect the other person at all and most likely they wont even notice/care that it is being used

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Obvious question. Why do you hate this guy so much?




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Using something, anything, without consent is theft, plain and simple. If you are amoral enough to believe differently, then go ahead and do it. I wouldn't.

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'Morals' is a very subjective thing [ ]
Someone's goose can be others gander [ ][ ]



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wait cable services have bandwith caps? I thought it was unlimited like my dsl...

 

I thought legally if they don't do anything to protect themselves then it's their problem because they are giving consent to everyone being able to use their connection.

However, if you are actively trying to crack their code/use their secure net then it's definately stealing.

An unsecure line is automatically put under public access.

Plus true they could see your MAC address of your computer but there's no way of tracking down who's computer is it unless you are in an apartment setting where they could say it's my neighbor.

And there is definately no way cops are going to go into your house to check your computers mac address without more evidence. Else they have no probable cause unless you are shooting off at your mouth that you are using so and sos connection.

If people were smart they would only allow their own personal wireless computer onto their network. Ie the only computer that can log into my current network is the computer with my exact mac address. That's how I setup my network.

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This is not correct. If you get on their network you have broken the law. Just because the guy's house is unlocked doesn't mean you can take his tv.

Brian

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Brian you are using two completely different scenerios. Going into someone's unlocked house and taking a tv to bring back to your house would be more like getting on someone's network and taking their files from their computer. Not to mention it's not the same because the person isn't publicly broadcasting that their house is unlock take whatever you like.

Just like on a network of computers. If you share documents and don't actively protect them it's automatic public domain/access. Anyone can copy those files to their computer/look at them. You are giving implied consent. Broadcasting your internet access across a broad range without securing it is implied consent that it is a public acess and not a private usage line. How am I suppose to know that the signal is from a private user and not from a free hotspot?

Yah yah you are going to say well it's in a residential area no free hotspots around. Well unless the guy broadcasting his signal to everyone doesn't have a problem with it ie doesn't care enough to secure his line which is stated on most of the router boxes/instructions then I don't feel terribly sorry for him. Maybe there are people that wish for everyone to use their unlimited access?

However, if you are getting on someone else's wireless and actively causing malicious things like virus attacks, spamming, so forth that will definately cause you problems because you are using someone elses line to do malicious things trying to cover who you are or get someone else in trouble.



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Look, no matter how you try to rationalize it, you're breaking the law. I agree that the liklihood of getting caught is low and the odds of getting prosecuted is nil, but it's still against the law regardless.

Brian

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Brian I would just like to point out that the law about computer fraud and abuse has nothing to do with using someone elses wifi.

First if you read there are alot of mentionings about intentionally causing harm. Next the entire thing is in reference to government computers which are protected and not private home users as they don't fall under government computers. Also it refers to computers used in finacial institutions and retrieving data from said computers.

There is nothing in there about using someone elses connection that is publicly broadcasted to the world to use unsecure.

You are not accessing their computer, you are accessing their network which like I said is implied consent it is open to the public if it is not secured.

It's just like radio waves. They are broadcasted out there for anyone to use. The ones that are secured like satelitte/xm radio you have to sign up for to have access for them else they would be free.

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Mike -

I don't know what to tell you, but you're wrong. It's against the law to use someone's access, without permission, even if they don't protect it. If you can find legal cases to the contrary I'd be interested to see them.

Brian

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I had avoided using wireless network since I was afraid it would interfere to my cordless phone, my wireless home alarm, wireless head phone, and even to my family health (I had a newborn at that time). Eventhough these frequencies are said to be safe for public but who knows. Anyway, I finally set up one and to my surprise, I could detect about a dozen of wireless network inside my house. Should I be mad of my neighbor for sending these high frequency signals into my house?
Can anybody tell me if this is right? I adjust sprinklers at my front lawn to maximum. It not only waters my lawn but also my neighbor's. My neighbor doesn't ask me anything and he turns off his sprinklers. Now, it ends up that his lawn is using my water. Is it illegal that he's using my water everyday? I have to pay for that water. I even see him putting a bucket on his lawn to collect my water and uses it for his plants. He cannot do that, right? It's my water. I can spray it anywhere but I don't want people to use it. It's the same as my wireless internet. I pay for it. I can transmit it across my neighbor but I don't want anybody using it.
Maybe nobody wants me as a neighbor by now. To tell you the truth, it's up to you. If you don't want your neighbor uses your water then re-adjust your sprinklers. If you don't want people come in your house and steal things, then lock your doors. If you don't want your neighbor hear what you say, then don't yell or scream. If you don't want people see what you're doing in your bedroom then cover up all windows. And finally, if you don't want people using your wireless, then enable the security. If you have done all those and people still trying to break it, then you can complain or sue them. Sending unprotected signals out likes inviting people using it free. If you put your money in front of your neighbor's house, do you think they will take it, return it to you, or just leave it there? It's just wrong that people using your free network and trying to do something that you don't want.
For me, I just hate those unwanted frequencies inside my house. Can anybody tell me how to get rid of them?

 

Legally, I agree with Mike on this. I don't think it's illegal to use the network that someone else is broadcasting unsecured. My reading of the statutes you quoted seem to apply to intentional misuse of computer resources and files. I think it's debatable if using unsecured wireless falls under this. Do you have any examples of someone being specifically prosecuted for this? I don't think it's the same as entering the person's unlocked house to take his TV. I think it's more like standing on the sidewalk to watch his big screen TV through his picture window.

Also, I didn't know that some cable companies were capping bandwidth. I do know that it did NOT used to be forbidden to share the access with others, according to some of the ISP user agreements I saw quoted a couple of years ago. That may have changed, however.

That being said, I do believe it is at least impolite to use it without asking. Some people don't care. I know that I left my network open on purpose in case someone else wanted to use it. I don't really care as long as they don't slow down my access, or try to break into my computer (not the router as they pass through to the internet).

Just my $0.02 worth....

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<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by hieunknown
For me, I just hate those unwanted frequencies inside my house. Can anybody tell me how to get rid of them?
<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'></font id='quote'></blockquote id='quote'>

Tin foil, or you could be able to put up some sort of conductive screen and ground it. It would look pretty "industrial" to say the least.

Russ

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I also, get a neighbour's unsecured signal and it is annoying because in certain areas of my house his signal seems to be stonger than that the WAP secured signal of my own router and I'm having a hard time getting a decent connection. A way around that may be to uncheck the option to connect to non-preferred networks.

As for the sharing analogies, how about that of music pollution. When someone plays their music very loud, I don't think they care that their neighbours did not pay for the pleasure of his "sharing" [ ].

 

If I have a (frequency) spectrum analyser at home, I'll plot out all the frequencies inside my home. You are just surpise that you are living with so many of them. I bet if your house is White House, the secret service won't allow most of those frequencies due to security.
When your neighbors play loud music, it means their speakers are generating high amplitude sound waves (sometimes they also generate very high frequency noise that can really bother your ears). These waves travel into your house. It's like their wireless routers keep sending 2.4GHz waves into your house. You can't sleep because of the music. {It's like your wireless card keeps locking on or gets interfere from your neighbors' networks ( I think all routers now are using same 2.4GHz and your card has to find the waves that have the matched ID to lock on)}. You call the police and complain about your neighbors music and the police says that it's illegal to listen to your neighbor music because it's NOT yours. Your neighbors have to pay for all the equipments the copyrighted music so if you want to listen to it from your house, you have to ask for their permission. Otherwise, you have to cover your ears or listen to your own music only. LOL.
Everybody know that if they don't install any antivirus software, soon or later, their computers will get virus. It doesn't matter where the virus comes from, you can't go after and sue the author of that virus. It's somebody else's job, not yours. So if you open your wireless network, somebody will use it and even hack your PC. If you don't want so, you need to have at least some basic security features turned on. You know this can be done easily and the information on how to do it is everywhere (internet, router manual, computer magazine,...). The fact is a lot of wireless networks out there are not secured. Their owners must have some reason for it.

 

It seems to me if his wireless network is over in your house then setting up one of your own would interfere with both of them. Im supriesed he doesn't have some sort of router or internet security to automatically detetc an unknown system. But I suppose if I set up a wirelss network I wouldn't really watch out all the for various people logging on to my bandwith, unless i noticed serious slow downs.

 

Is it illegal to unknowingly connect to a wi-fi network that is un-secured? For example, I was at a restaurant, and my Pocket PC happened to find the Wi-Fi of the office next door, and beliving, that it was the Wi-Fi of the restaurant, I connected to it and went online to sync my e-mail. I found out it wasn't the restaurant's wi-fi when I said to the waiter, how nice it was that they were offering free wi-fi.

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If the AP had WDS you could just buy one with WDS and put it in your house.. extended range i have an unsecured network because i cant seem to get all my devices to work with the WEP or Radius but i switched off DHCP so even if their lappy connects it wont get access to my network. +theres a gateway through the net he cant get that

 

Ahh, this topic is alive again. Yes, it's against the law to use anyone's WiFi without their permission. Whether or not it's secured is irrelevant.

 

The more interesting question is, SHOULD it be against the law?

 

Good question, where I haven't completely looked into this matter but couldn't it be considered a "theft of services" issue? Almost like cracking open a fire hydrant on a hot afternoon. Or better yet you need to crack open a fire hydrant, sorry for the spelling, to get the water for some work your doing but then you close it back up when you take say 500 gallons worth. Almost the same situation.
You access the internet through the other guys wireless router, log off when your done.

I don't know I think I'm just rambling here.

Valsmere

 

to me, yes it should be illegal, although I think the owners are partially to blame for leaving their network unsecured. I am not going to pay 50 a month for DSL just to let someone else use it for free.

 

It is stealing, it becomes sharing if you "share" the cost of the ISP. Until then it is stealing. There is no real argument that would make it ethically or legally acceptable.

The only people I really see arguing the fact are the people that are stealing bandwidth from their neighbors, but don't in fact want to call themselves a thief.

 

I read an article on CNET today about WiFi at neighbours places. It is bad about stealing bandwidth i mean why cant you just get an ADSL or something at your place? unfortunaetely for me i have to pay expensive broadband for living in remote areas!

 

The thing is that he left it unsecure so you could argue that maybe he left it open on purpose for people to use. Even if you do get caught, i doubt you'll get in any trouble.

 

Actually i have to leave my network unsecured to allow all devices to connect.. not all support the encryption. Still i have set the range short not to allow anyone in. also i put it so DHCP is off.. meaning when you connect to the network without the settings you can't connect to the net. i dont want intruders but its not all devices support WEP 64 or WEP 128 which is what my AP offers..

 

You'll probably not get in trouble, unless the guy who's being prosecuted now gets fined or something. If so, that sets the standard for anyone else who gets caught and has charges pressed.

 

I would compare it more to a sprinkler than a fire hydrant. The guy has his water sprinkler going and sprays it everywhere, including on the sidewalk and on your yard.

I think anyone is allowed to go walk on his sidewalk and soak up the water. If he doesn't feel like you should be using water that he's paying bills for, it shouldn't be going onto your property or public property.

Going onto his yard to cool off with the water would be wrong, but when that water hits the non-private area, I'd say it's ok.

Therefore, if his signal goes to your house, and he leaves it unsecured, I see nothing wrong with it.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/techbits...ZkjtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Man Charged With Stealing Wi-Fi Signal

"ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Police have arrested a man for using someone else's wireless Internet network in one of the first criminal cases involving this fairly common practice.

Benjamin Smith III, 41, faces a pretrial hearing this month following his April arrest on charges of unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony.

Police say Smith admitted using the Wi-Fi signal from the home of Richard Dinon, who had noticed Smith sitting in an SUV outside Dinon's house using a laptop computer.

The practice is so new that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement doesn't even keep statistics, according to the St. Petersburg Times, which reported Smith's arrest this week.

Innocuous use of other people's unsecured Wi-Fi networks is common, though experts say that plenty of illegal use also goes undetected: such as people sneaking on others' networks to traffic in child pornography, steal credit card information and send death threats.

Security experts say people can prevent such access by turning on encryption or requiring passwords, but few bother or are unsure how to do so.

Wi-Fi, short for Wireless Fidelity, has enjoyed prolific growth since 2000. Millions of households have set up wireless home networks that give people like Dinon the ability to use the Web from their backyards but also reach the house next door or down the street.

It's not clear why Smith was using Dinon's network. Prosecutors declined to comment, and a working phone number could not be located for Smith."

 

lol, nice analogy except for one thing...you don't have a choice with the sprinkler.. The water is going to go where it wants to go whether you like it or not. With the network, you can choose not to use it.

 

Why do routers have an option of security then, the security should automatically be on when you install the router then say if you don't want security you can take it off.