XoticPC 16F2 vs. PowerPro 11:36 $150 difference?

Can anyone help me to understand the $150 price difference between these two? They seem to be exactly the same but they have a large price difference of $150 in XoticPC's favor. I'm in the process of ordering now. But now worrying about the reason PowerPro/Powernotebooks can't touch this price.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

Is it too good to be true? Please help me gain some confidence via knowledge.


Specs below: (anything not listed is stock or opted out to clarify the specs)
1x FORCE 16F2-012 / MSI 16F2

- Processor: 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM, 2.2-3.1GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache) (SKU - X2N167)

- Primary Hard Drive: 120GB OCZ Vertex 3 MAX IOPS Sandforce Solid State Drive (Up to Sequential Read 550MB/s - Write 500MB/s SSD Serial-ATA III) (SKU - X5R001)

- Second Hard Drive: 750GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) (SKU - X5R310)

- Optical Drive Bay: 6X Blu-Ray Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive (SKU - X7R552)

- Wireless Network: Intel® Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module (Includes 3rd Antenna) (SKU - X8R108)

$1,503.00 before discounts

 

this information is correct. remember this is a barebone computer, coming from the msi gt683dxr, so no flashiness in this one, but pure performance.

The price is indeed 1503 before discounts. i would proceed if this is what u want.

Just a tiny tip in case u plan FUTURE upgrading. choose same processor and gtx 580m. its easier to change the rest as time passes but its more dificult to change the video card and expensive as well.

Other wise id say go for it.

 

Not sure what the deal is. I'm configuring the same as you are, and it's right at $150 less. But both places say they'll price match.

 

i believe he is asking if the page is legit since the price diferrence is alot. yes the page IS legit and some offer better prices than others. BOTH pages will get u the exact premium product. their locations do change (one in the east coast and one in the west) so if shipping time is a must then u go that way. other than that go for the less expensive

 

Thanks for the info. Yes configured anyway possible the difference is still there. Just wanted to know if these truly are "the same".

But, can you elaborate on the difficulty with upgrade the GPU later? I figured in the future the price of the gtx 580m would only come down. Making it cheaper to upgrade later not more expensive.

From what I've read the 570 should handle just about anything out right now. $400 is a big jump for me.

Thanks again for all of the responses.

 

They are the same units. A lot of times, Xotic has great deals on their "secondary" drives, that other resellers don't have. They all have the price match guarantee though, so you can't go wrong really. Just go with the one that you feel will treat you the best, or is the easiest to work with otherwise.

The 570 is still a great card. The 580 will come down in price in due time, and if the MXM cards stay the same for the new generation of cards, then you should be able to upgrade then. It's not that difficult to upgrade, don't let that sway you.

The 580 is considerably faster/more powerful stock vs stock. Overclocked, the 570 can reach 580 performance, but when you overclock the 580, once again, it still beats the 570 considerably.

Go with what your budget allows. It is the most expensive upgrade that you can make (other than extreme processors). I'd say stick w/ the 570m and you'll be fine. It'll run everything, you may just have to tweak some of the settings and not run EVERY detail at max.

Good luck eelkered.

 

What he said....except I believe Xotic ships from Nebraska and PowerNotebooks from Cali or Nevada..so there is no East coast with either of them ...both resellers have great reputations and both will price match so go with who you feel comfortable with...also, I have the 570 GPU and I can play almost any game at max settings...so at this point in time I think $400 is a bit much for the leap to the 580....but thats just my opinion...

 

Not so. I have been informed by Donald at PNB that they can't match the price on this model. But he could not tell me why not, or if there was a difference in the two models. He suggested "I do my homework" to ensure It wasn't " too good to be true". So here I am asking for your help to find out.

 

Have you looked at Gentech? The guy who runs the show over their (Ken) provides great customer service and frequently posts on these forums. If you ask him, he will personally run benchmarks on your computer to make sure everything is working correctly and all temps are within normal limits. When I ordered my barebones from them, I opted for the Steelseries Keyboard upgrade and being how there's a lot of problems with them I was a little worried I would get a problematic keyboard. I told Ken this and he told me he would personally go over every single key on the keyboard to make sure it was working right and if it wasn't, he would have the techs keep swapping it out until they found a good one. That right there is great customer service. If you call him, he will either match or beat any price out there.

In terms of GPU, I have the 570 as I was told that the $400 upgrade wasn't worth it right now and that I should wait a couple months for it to come down in price or upgrade the to 680 when it comes out. If you have the extra money than why not. You will get a little bit more performance but as of right now, there are no games pushing the GPU limits. I've only played a couple games so far such as BF3 and Batman Arkham City. Both were played at 1080 with everything except Shadows on Ultra. I keep Shadows on high. During the single player campaign on BF3, I max all of the settings to Ultra but during Multiplayer, I would rather have the extra FPS. When the new 600 series cards come out, the 580 will probably drop to less than $300 and the 680 will probably go for $450-500.

 

Hi eelkered,

I just made a purchase from PowerNotebooks.com just under two weeks ago and am waiting for my laptop to arrive (Tracking says it arrived in Malaysian customs on Saturday!). I cannot speak for XoticPC as I had virtually no dealings with them beyond initial research on Sager models and a quick look at the Force models.

Now, I've just taken another quick look at their prices and have configured the following for comparison:

-15.6” Full HD (1920x1080) LED Backlit 95% NTSC Color Gamut Matte LCD (AU OB156HW01 V4)
-Special Savings on 30 Day "No Defective Pixel" Guarantee - Call us for details
-nVIDIA GeForce GTX 580M 256bit w/2.0GB GDDR5
-Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM (2.2~3.1GHz) w/6M L3 Cache - 4 Cores - 8 Threads
-8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3/1333 Dual Channel Memory
-Primary 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive
-Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti DVDRW/CDRW Drive
-Built-in Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1102 - Ultimate Gaming Card - No Bluetooth
-Windows 7 Premium - 64-Bit w/Full Version OEM + Drivers & Utilities Disks

At this point, the price difference between PowerNotebooks.com and XoticPC is 79.00 USD, XoticPC being the lower of the two. Reason I picked Special Savings on the 30 Day "No Defective Pixel" Guarantee is because I actually got it free during my purchase for which I'm grateful for. I suppose XoticPC would match that or even if they did not, they'd still be ahead but by a smaller margin as it only goes for 39 USD bringing the difference down to 40 USD. Didn't pick the Intel Ultimate-N 6300 network card simply because PowerNotebooks.com didn't offer it as an option and the Bigfoot card was available on both sites.

If you take a closer look at the HD and SSD prices on XoticPC though (more evident when you make a comparison for secondary drives as it starts from zero), you'll find that XoticPC sells SSDs for about 80-100 less which may or may not be a site bug. 169 USD to 255 USD for the Patriot Wildfire which is a difference of 86 USD. It does look to me that there's a mistake in pricing the HDs and SSDs though because that's quite a lot of money. Now if they decide to honor the full price, go for it by all means. I've done enough research on the MSI 16F2 whitebooks to know that I'll be happy with the final product because this is a beast of a machine.

As for my experience purchasing from Donald, it has been spectacular. There was a total of 31 e-mails exchanged between the both of us (22nd through 31st January 2012 - made the purchase on my birthday ) and he patiently discussed with me both my build and payment options as an international buyer. He threw in a 50 USD discount for being a member of the NBR forums despite promising 30 USD initially which was a really nice surprise and I had reached the point where I knew I would be making the purchase from PowerNotebooks.com having experienced such great and personalized service.

As I've said, I cannot speak for XoticPC and if they are able to offer those prices, I'd say go for it. Their reps have proven on these forums time and time again that they offer top notch service and great discounts. I just wrote this to point out where I found the price differences and to state my personal experience with one of the companies you listed.

Best of luck with the purchase!

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that XoticPC will be giving you a free dose of ICD on your CPU and GPU for the upgrade to the i7-2670QM while PowerNotebooks.com offers the same chip on their standard model so you may not get ICD on it (I'd ask to be sure). They offered the i7-2630QM as the standard when I made the purchase and I got the same ICD offer for upgrading the chip.

 

Hey thanks for the replies.

I have been quite impressed by the customer service of both companies.
Donald was great for me too - answer many questions VERY promptly. Derek S. at XoticPC has equally helped me in my order and really went above and beyond to help me out in this order.

Like I said before I'm in the process of ordering now from XoticPC. Just awaiting wire transfer information to make payment now.

Just wanted to confirm what I thought was true - that one company did have a substantial price advantage over the other on the "SAME" product.

Thornduck, thanks for the info as well. I sure am feeling more confident about this purchase already. But, don't go jinxing the SSD pricing! I really hope that is not the case. That would really blow to find that out at this point. LOL

 

actually the force models aren't exactly the same, they don't come with the premium DYNaudio speakers. I would have bought from them already if they did though

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/msi/616025-msi-16f2-gtx-570m-november-2.html

Read a couple other places too that they did.. ?

 

that response is from a retailer.

 

I think all of the 16F2's come with the same DynAudio speakers as the GT68X series.

So they should be the same in that aspect.

 

Force 16f2-012 - XOTICPC Forums

 

i dont know then, i spoke with one of their well known sales guys and they said no, hence why their 16f2 barebones are so much cheaper :S

 

although I only found out after negotiating price/discounts..could be a factor or im just over analyzing D:

 

No such thing as over analyzing. Analyze away my friend. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Who did you talk to? What company?

 

If this thing doesn't have Dynaudio, I'd love to hear one that did. This is the best sounding laptop I have ever owned. Got it from Xotic.

 

that's pretty good to know..hope one of their reps confirms so I can order already..lol

btw, what other laptops have you owned?

 

bunch of dells, a sager and 2 lenovos.

 

When I ordered my notebook last month, I called Gentech, PowerPro and Xotic. I specifically asked if the 16F2 came with Dynaudio speakers and the rep told me no. The reason why I asked in the first place is because the other suppliers had the Dynaudio speakers listed in their specs. Xotic was the only one who didn't. This is probably the reason why Xotic can sell the 16F2 much cheaper than the 1671 from Gentech and 11:36 from PowerPro. The Dynaudio speakers could easily be a $150 difference. Once you hear the Dynaudio speakers you will understand why they cost more. Seriously, you will not find better sounding speakers on any other notebook from any manufacturer.

Put it this way. This is the 3rd gaming laptop I've owned and it's the first one that I actually use the built in speakers when gaming more than I use a headset.

 

Hmm, sounds like an interesting point. Hope the Retailers chime in soon. Sure have gotten a lot of good info from you all! I'm sure it will aid many others as well in their quests. "Rep Power" sent!

 

I just talked to Derek from Xotic PC and he told me it does not come with the Dynaudio speakers.

I'm not sure if it is a deal breaker for me, but I really would have wanted to have the Dynaudio speakers in this thing .


EDIT: I saw on the tech specs for the Force 1761 and it said it had Dynaudio Premium Speakers. I asked Derek and he said it shouldn't, but he would e-mail me after the production team gets back to him and lets him know. I also asked if he could double check on the 16F2. I'll keep you guys updated. I was reading on Xotics forum about the Dynaudio and seems like people love the speakers even if it may not have Dynaudio.

Quoting a member from Xotics' forum "My brother is an owner of the Force 16 and that was a selling point for him as well. They are Dynaudio, if they're not then they're just as good! Beats every two piece speaker set i have heard, and is comparable to many three piece sets(quality wise)."

 

that blows, might just opt for the 17" version then. or go with pro-star but their warranty kinda worries me. its only for the US and no free shipping?

 

Pro-Star would actually be cheaper if configured the same as Xotic! Anyone have reviews of Pro-Star? Only dissapointment is that I would have to pay tax on Pro-Stars . However.. I live close enough to potentially pick it up if they allowed me to.

 

Those who are thinking that the knock offs are just as good as the Dynaudio's might want to think again. The Dynaudio's not only have a larger surface area but they also have a larger frequency spectrum. This is just another area where MSI decided to save money with their barebones units. If you haven't heard the Dynaudio's yet then your in for a treat in terms of notebook speakers. You would have never thought quality sound could come from a laptop.

I'm not saying the knockoff speakers aren't good. They just aren't as good as the Dynaudio's.

 

What does the Realtek HD Audio Manager look like on the 16F2 and 1761?

Here's my GT780DX with Dynaudio at the bottom.

 

Realtek HD Audio Manager on my 16F2; which I bought from GenTechPC:


However, these should be the same audio drivers that are on the GT683, so the "DynAudio" logo may just be an included image.

I think XoticPC is simply mistaken here. The alternatives would be that all of the other resellers are incorrect in saying that the 16F2 has DynAudio speakers; or that for some reason, XoticPC is the rare reseller selling the 16F2 without DynAudio speakers.

 

This could be the case. So much good info here. I applaud you all for the help.

What's with the frown in your Signature near "95%". Unhappy with the screen?

 

The screen is great, it just lacks 10% of the pixels that my previous laptop's screen had.

I haven't really gotten over that yet.

I still miss them.

 

I also believe that it's the sales people at XOTIC are in the dark about all the features of products they're selling.

They rarely show up here on the MSI forums.

The speakers should be the same on the same Whitebooks shipped to all resellers.

The speakers are installed at the MSI factory and manufactured to fit in these notebooks.

Not having the Dynaudio logo on the Whitebooks is strictly a marketing decision.

 

Hey can some one verify the overall dimension on the 16f2 and the 1761 for me. Only place I found this info was on Gentech's website. It lists both as exactly the same:

8.6 lbs (9 cell) 16.85 (L) x 11.34” (W) x 2.17 (H)

From the photos and common sense - I have a hard time believing they are exactly the same. Going to keep looking for more specs myself...

Thanks for the suggestion jrwingate6.

 

Either way, if the barebones systems from XoticPC come with Dynaudio or not, why would you still want to order from them? If you order from Gentech or Powerpro, at least you know your getting them. Both of them are very reputable and provide great customer service so if their all going to price match each other, you misewell be on the safe side.


On a second look, it appears that XoticPC's 17in. barebones system has a different chassis than the systems used by Gentech and PowerPro. If you look closely, you will see that both Gentech and Powerpro have the larger speaker grills to accommodate the larger Dynaudio speakers. It makes perfect sense. Xotic is just cutting cost by not including the Dynaudio speakers.

That would seal the deal for me. If someone else is going to match Xotic's price, there's no way in hell I would order from Xotic if I wasn't 100% sure I was getting the better speakers.

 

They are not the same. The 16F2 is 1 inch shorter in both length and width. It also weighs roughly one pound less. In my opinion, the larger display more than makes up for the slight dimension increase. rust me man, unless your traveling "a lot", your games and moves will look a lot better on 17". I just came from a 15" gaming laptop. I'll never go back.

 

Here's what MSI says about pictures of model they themselves post.

"The product picture may differ from the actual product. Only for your reference."

If you guys don't actually know things for a fact,you shouldn't speculate and very possibly be wrong.

 

Hi Pot! My name is Black!

Weren't you just speculating a couple posts up? Post number 33 to be exact.


Dude, All I'm trying to say is why not order from someone else if they are going to match Xotic's price? Wouldn't you want to know 100% you were getting the better parts for the same price. I think you would.

 

FWIW, my xoticpc has the same Dynaudio logo at the bottom of the sound manager. If other places are price matching, and it's that big of a deal for you go with the "sure thing".

I have a feeling the Xotic pc's have the same hardware, and the employees just don't know as much as others retailers. Whether that bothers you or not is up to you.

When the girl from xotic called to confirm my order she said "I see here you opted to have no hard drive, and I want to make sure you understand we can not install Windows since it comes with no processor". After a long confusing q&a we determined that removing the hard drive did not also remove the processor.

All that to say that I wouldn't necessarily believe what they say as far as tech specs (they don't know the cpu from hdd). Unless someone got two models one with dynaudio and one without, we won't really know for sure either way. What we do know is that there aren't any complaints about the sound from the Xotic notebooks that I know of, and imho it sounds great.

If you can get a price match go for it, its your money, do what you want.

 

just confirmed that the Force 1761 model doesn't have Dynaudio as well. They listed it incorrectly on their page. sigh so much trouble T__T

 

Those looking to order a MSI Barebone system should look elsewhere besides XoticPC. It is apparent that their customer service reps/sales reps have no idea what their talking about. Not to mention, going with someone else seems like its the only sure way to get the better speakers.

Call Ken at Gentech. He knows everything about the products he sells and he is also very informative. I'm sure Ken will price match any other MSI Barebone system.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/msi/642211-any-experiences-prostar-2.html

Check out that thread for dynaudio info. Power notebooks And Rk say yes, Xotics huxstady says no Dyna. So Xotic doesn't have and all others do- Or Xotic's mistaken. I would tend to believe the latter for now. Time will tell. Just saw the post above this one. Damn maybe Xotic IS somehow the only one missing them.

 

Well I'm for sure checking around in due diligence. Definately not trying to drag names through the mud here-- Just will be my first rig this big for me, so trying to inform myself best I can. Always had outdated frankensteins up until this. Also considering that 17" now though.

Thanks again and again everyone - keep it civil and respectful please.

 

hey eelkered, when do you plan on buying?

 

Was planning on ordering right away. Already initiated ordering. But won't finalize now until I get everything straight and decide between that 17in and the 15in.
I guess as soon as I get all of the details worked out. Why do you ask?

 

I am sorry for the confusion here on this issue. All of us sellers get the SAME Barebone machine, a seller can not request to remove a certain speaker or option in a barebone machine. Both MSI Barebones DO have Dynaudio Tech speakers. Derek is new to our sales staff and again sorry for the confusion on this subject. I will make sure he is aware of this.

Sorry I didn't come in sooner.

 

Hutsady too? So I guess I can finally place my order now

 

I think some of our reps had some confusion on it with the lack of the "Retail Branding" you see on the Branded models. Apologize again for the confusion on it.

 

To quote Justin@XoticPC

Yes they do have Dynaudio.

My follow up e-mail from Derek I received this morning

"I have verified that the Dynaudio do come with the MSI based Force models. Sorry for any confusion"

So they do come with Dynaudio! Woohoo!

 

I was wrong sorry glad we got it all cleared up though, now i wont confuse anyone else