Why does MSI still use the HDD - HGST Travelstar HTS721010A9E630?

I am completely amazed MSI keeps including cheap HDD with such expensive machines.
For that price, I would expect at least a Samsung 840 or 850 1TB model. They are not that expensive anymore.
The HDD that comes in top MSI models is still only 1TB and runs for $57 on Amazon. Unbelievable.
It's getting good reviews I can see but mine was getting some read errors, while continuing to work.
I promptly replaced with it an SSD.

I don't know if they upgraded the HDD model but looking at the GT83VR specs, the model that supposedly replaces GT80, and sure enough, it too comes with 1TB HDD "Spinning rust". If they are going the HDD route, I would expect at least 2-4TB but even that does not make sense either in light of SSD coming down in price rapidly.

I swapped this HDD that came with GT80 SLI for a Samsung 850 and performance has been improved ten-fold. So has reliability. So has machine runtime. So has noise level.

HGST Travelstar HTS721010A9E630

 

My point exactly.. HDD is completely obsolete, it just does not rhyme with expensive, high performance laptops.
Not even for data storage which is what this drive is, presumably.
I get it that the boot drive is RAID'ed and very fast -- but even that has low capacity given what's out there.

In my GT80, I replaced the 2 Toshibas with 1x1TB Samsungs and the HDD got replaced by a 2.5" 1TB 850 Samsung. That's just a no brainer. I will probably upgrade the 2280 modules with SM961 (Samsung) and the 1TB 850 with 860 Pro 2TB.

But even a cheap 1TB SSD by any maker would be light years ahead of any HDD and this HGST isn't exactly "hot". In fact it's slow. The last HDD I had was a full size 3.5" 15500 rpm unit and 10 years old at that so 7200 rpm feels turtle slow to me. It honestly feels like 5400 rpm drive. The icing on the cake I was getting read errors. I installed it in another machine and some files got corrupted there. I strictly use it as a backup at this point.
I don't trust that HDD model.

 

HGST and Hitachi (who also make the same drives) are owned by Western Digital so they should be just as reliable as any other hard drive. That said, you are right - i'd expect an SSD for that price. A HDD is useless as an OS drive nowadays.

 

I am aware that HGST and Hitachi are one and the same. I did not know Western Digital owned them.
I don't think you can infer from that they are as reliable as anything else. WD makes a gazillion models for all kinds of markets. Entry level to data center server grade. This one strikes me as a budget choice.

Oh and it's slow as a <fill in the blank>

I've seen - either here, or on the MSI forum that someone lost their 1TB HDD in an MSI machine, was it GT80, IIRC.

I put mine in another machine and cloned its operating system to it. So it's in the backup capacity. It worked for a while, then tried to boot off, something got corrupt during the login process. Re-cloned it and it works - for now but my faith in it is limited. CrystalDisk/CrystalMark check it out OK so maybe it was a Windows problem.

Amazingly, the Amazon reviews are 4.5 stars. I do tend to believe the reviews generally. So maybe it's OK compared to other dinosaurs.

Literally any SSD is a better choice versus spinning rust.

The only HDD I've had that were a positive experience were server-grade Cheetah 15.5K RPM 3.5" HDD and they were noticeably faster than any laptop HDD at 5400 or even 7000 rpms. They were also huge and noisy. It seemed like they were half way there to SSD performance, although of course that was just a delusion. Running one side-by-side with SSD will make them look sad. In any case, cannot get 15.5K in 2.5" laptop format, so it s a moot point. These 15.5K Cheetas are a fond memory now.
But this Hitachi, at 7200 rpms or whatever it is, is just not acceptable in 2018. Not in performance laptops. maybe 10 years ago. HDD are as obsolete as CRT monitors or VHS tapes.

 

That is the main issue with HGST drives - they are realy slow. I have a 1TB 5400RPM one in my laptop for storing music and films and its still going strong after 3 years with no errors. When used for a purpose such as that, the lack of speed isn't really an issue.

 

Yeah, I see your point.

 

I think HGST drives are pure garbage. I had a 750GB 5400rpm hdd of that brand in my old asus laptop and with it inside it would randomly shut down every few days to weeks since it was like 6 months old - I gave up on the warranty as I learned to live with it and they couldn't find what was wrong with it so I just didn't send it in anymore. After being swapped for an ssd (since windows 10 would freeze all the time after I upgraded from windows 8.1), no more issues in the past 2 years. I have to say my impression of the drives in the MSI laptops: despite being 7200rpm, they feel just as slow. There are also youtube videos of people trying to install games on them just to find that the textures in-game aren't loading and the entire game freezes periodically because of it.
I would not even bother using these drives at all anymore indeed... And if they really want to put in a hdd for storage make it at least some decent brand, not the cheapest junk you can find.

 

I have both a 7200 rpm drive by another brand and the 7200 rpm HGST feels much slower. It does not feel like 7200 rpm at all.
In fact it's the slowest drive I have ever had.
compared to the old 15.5K rpm server grade hard drives I've had since 10 years ago, it's crawling. Just incomprehensible they keep including that garbage in high-end machines.

 

My 7200rpm 1TB HGST has reads in the 130-140MB order, and thats a 4 year old HDD, what are you guys doing with your drives to trash them?

HGST is leaps and bounds better than the crappy Toshiba HDD's that Asus still uses..

 

The thing is the new 7200rpm hdd's perform either the same or worse. Yeah you might get read/write speeds of 130-140MB/s on large files, but that is not how most new programs/games/OS's work thus these drives are totally unsuitable for those things. They are ok for movies, photos or music but that's about it. And if the antivirus tries to touch the hdd it might likely freeze. For today's standards they are just horrible and from my experience can fail horribly too, especially when you move the laptop around a lot (ok to be fair, no hdd is actually a good choice for a laptop for that reason but since HGST are budget drives, I can't think of them in a good way). Just compare my benchmark results of what I am used to: my 7200rpm HGST vs my raid 0 samsung ssd's. You can Guess how the hdd makes me feel in this premium laptop that costs over 3000 euro new here. It just doesn't belong. And those super budget msi laptops that do not even have an ssd and totally rely on the hdd? Unusable.

PS. for the fun of it I tried to bench my external toshiba usb3 drive. It should be 5400 rpm... the results were too sad so I stopped the test halfway. First column went like 89, 0.4, 0.45,... lol.

 

Wow - that's something.
What a clear difference.

The Age of HDD has clearly passed. Even the very best HDD are not much faster than that.

 

But, the HDD is there for bulk storage..

The GT75 can be bought off the shelf with up to 1TB of NVMe SSD's installed in RAID, and even the GT72 where sold with at least 256GB of SATA SSD's.

I have all my music and video and random crap in the HDD, the rest sits on the SSD RAID.

I'm not really getting the point(more or less, people want only SSD's and no more HDD's, well, MSI needs to turn a profit, as all company do)..

 

Well if you buy locally here in EU you don't really have much choice storage-wise. There is just 1 option and that's it. Also, 256 GB is nothing at all, install 3-4 games and OS on it and it's filled to max (which is not sth one should ever do anyway). I don't feel like my 500GB raid is enough.
I owned several hgst drives and pretty much all failed at some point so I just don't trust them even for storage. One made my laptop shut down since it was like 6 months old for no obvious reason, one suffered from some data loss around the time it was 2 years old, one failed when it was like 1.5 years old but could be recovered to some extent, one failed suddenly when it was like 4 years old and could not be recovered anymore. All 2.5 inch laptop drives. The only one I did not see fail was in my previous MSI as I only kept it less than a year when it got exchanged for another model due to cpu throttling. Imo it's just a matter of time, you could just be getting lucky or you don't use it all the time (the failed drives were OS drives used every day continuously). My bf owns 3.5 inch drives which are reasonably old and worked reliably till last year when they got replaced for an ssd, now they just sit inside a cabin catching dust - but I'd bet they all work (a WD Caviar from around 2004 or 2005, WD blue from around 2011 and seagate barracuda from around 2008/09). All were os drives at some point for a few years.
I am not saying hdd's are no longer needed, as ssd's aren't suitable for long-term storage. I just think backing up to an external hdd is wiser for bulk storage, which is where all my photos, videos, etc live. I don't want to risk that someone sets their greedy eye on my MSI when I use it abroad/at school and I not only lose a 3000 euro machine, but around 15 years worth of photos that I don't have printed out. The money can be earned again but the photos can't be recovered unless the thief has some conscience - they usually don't. If it's all on my 1TB inside the MSI (since I don't own a pc) then that is what I would be risking in my eyes. That's why the hdd in the MSI is totally useless... I'd prefer to have more space for games which is why I have my old 850 evo 500gb waiting to replace that hdd.

 

NAS, either a cheap-ish QNAP/Synology with 4 bays, and a second off-site backup to Backblaze/Amazon, relying on a single HDD as a backup is a bad idea, even worse when that HDD is a portable USB drive that can be easily dropped when moving around.

I have seen drive failure from Seagate, WD, Toshiba, HGST, HP/Dell 10k SAS, and every kind of SSD.

Any HDD can fail, I dont like Seagate nor Toshiba, Kingston SSD's that are used by MSI also like to die a lot.

I have HDD's with 10 years working fine, I had one WD Black die with less than 6 months, backups all the time and dont rely on a single point of failure is the most important thing, lots of people only learn it after losing years of data..

With some 1TB SSD's are already at the 200€ mark, with some promos making them even cheaper, like this MX500 for 165€:
https://www.amazon.es/Crucial-MX500...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B077SF8KMG

Yes, MSI should put bigger SSD's in the laptops and "better" HDD's, and they do it, in other markets, because market indicators show them that with the retailer tax put on top of their re-sale value nobody wants to pay an extra 500€ for 500GB of SSD..

 

The fact of the matter is, SSD 1TB model have been coming down in price rapidly, you can get a 1TB model for under $200, or about that. I got a Samsung 850 a year ago for $270, used, like new with just a few gigs written to it, works real nice.

I see the same thing today for about $200. Ever since it has been superseded by 860. I would think prices on 840 are even better. And if you go with a cheaper brand, expect better still.

There is just no reason not to get an SSD these days. Since the price delta is shrinking daily.

HDD are more expensive in terms of higher risk of failure. If you drop it at just the right angle, your data is gone. I've had that happen to a desktop 3.5" HDD.

A used 1TB HDD goes for something like $30 on the used market, which indicates that it's nearly worthless.

I would rather spend $200 than $30 and get a modicum of safety.

But MSI should do this by default.

 

I went through a nightmare data loss last year, it did not involve an MSI product but a 3.5" Cheetah by Seagate 15.5K HDD.

I had the system encrypted with Vera Crypt and the disks mirrored. The primary disk went bad. I tried to boot off the mirror disk and ended up having issues with it, it needed a decryption key. I used Macrium Reflect to copy the disk and I think it missed something from the header and just would not boot.

I spent a week recovering the data, it was a nightmare. 15 years of priceless photos gone.

I have 4 SSD in the GT80 machine and the primary 2 are mirrored by the other 2. All are 1TB. It's expensive but not as expensive as data loss.

I think a moving parts device is inherently less reliable than solid state electronics.

This especially becomes obvious if you drop your device at just the right angle. The head will crash, or something. The tolerances are measured in microns. Come to think of it, it's a miracle HDD work at all.

Anyway, I understand the concept behind MSI, the OS is on the RAID SSDs and the data is on the 1TB HDD. The problem is, the data is worth more than the OS and by far. So the SGST drive does not fit in any scenario.

 

Having a large SSD is very nice, and yes, if you can afford it, you should definitely consider investing in one, but at the same time, with this type of fear mongering about HDD's, it's a complete miracle we made it past the last decade without the next great computer crash, using HDD's !

And don't get me started on the prices of 1TB-2TB NVME drives....

 

Losing data just once with a HDD will make you reassess its usage. Just once is enough to discredit it. SSD *is* more reliable, with no moving parts. It does wear out but in a different fashion.

I know, backups are backups, but still.

I don't trust HDD, plain and simple.

I am looking at it in the context of 1TB SSD having come down in price steeply. To the point of being affordable for the masses. And 512GB SSD are dirt cheap.

Now I could not afford 4x4TB in the machine, with each one being $600 used at this point and closer to 800-900 new. So we are looking close to 4000 just in SSDs alone.

 

To be fair the only hdds I have witnessed failing in my 23 years of life were the 2.5 inch hgst drives...
I actually think normal 3.5 inch drives are quite reliable and last as long as they are not moved much and kept in good conditions? I mean you have those "exploring old school laptop/pc" videos on youtube and they often run off the original hdd so just how bad can it be?

 

There is also the fact that what MSI/WD call a HDGST 1TB at 7200 isn't always what you get. I've had two MSI laptops supoposedly with 7200 RPM HDD, and I open them up to find a WD Blue 1TB at 5400RPM That's a bit naughty when the sales bumph says 7200rpm.

 

That does not surprise me. My "7200" HDD that came with the GT80 MSI laptop runs suspiciously like the 5400 rpm drive. I put it into another machine that has the 7200 rpm HDD as the primary boot device and it's really obvious, side by side that one is a lot slower than the other.

HDD are completely obsolete at this point. And should be discarded along with VCR tapes, CRT monitors and typewriters. Yes, they *work* but so far below the optimum abilities of the best what's available out there.

 

The ideal thing to do with the 1TB is to remove it, replace it with an SSD like samsung 850 or 860 and install it into another machine.

I use it as a drive to mirror the data to in another machine so it's all working out nicely. It found its purpose as a backup device. The primary HDD is old, can fail anytime and I have a full mirrored image on that HGST Travelstar HTS721010A9E630.


If the primary HDD fails, I will install an SSD and recover the date off the backup. Using Macrium Reflect.

Oh and I cannot believe how slow it is. I tested the 7200 rpm primary drive and the HGST is slower. In fact I don't believe it is 7200 rpm at all.

 

It's not just MSI.
I will not buy a machine in this day and age with a HDD in it. Not in 2018.

 

Expecting the laptop manufacturers to start shipping 2.5" 1TB SSDs as the storage drives is out there to the point of insanity. Prices simply have not come down that far.

 

MSI and other manufacturers like to have a lower adverized price than their competitors so a cheap hdd is in the base model along with maybe a lower range graphics card.

Today,with a glut of memory chips some popular SSDs are at their lowest prices ever.The Crucial MX500 and Samsung 860EVO are being offered on the egg,B&H and amazon at prices hard to resist.

SSDs with newer cheaper to make chips and controllers will be out shortly.

A 500GB 860EVO is a bit over $100,1TB is under $200 and the 2TB is $450 on the egg.The Crucial MX500 may have even better pricing than the Samsung.My son got a 500GB MX500 in the mid $80s a few days ago.

I'd like to see a lot more notebooks offered without the OS and storage.I have lots of Windows 10 Pro from the time of the free upgrade from Win 8 and 4 W10 Pro serials bought for $12ea.

 

Given what these machines cost, I fully expect at least a 512GB SSD.

It's nuts to spend about 4 grand on a machine and not get an SSD. These are not Walmart or Costco-grade laptops but the hardware that's above the average performance-wise.

I don't want an HDD in any size. I trust solid state more as far as reliability.

 

I keep getting email notifications while there is no new meaningful info. You keep repeating the same stuff. I suggest this thread to be locked as we've discussed as much as humanly possible about hdd vs ssd problem. Move on or buy from companies that offer customizable storage options.

 

IMO it's very often better to buy with the hard drive and upgrade it to an SSD yourself.

While getting the notebook shipped to you all set to go it may be more costly depending on what the customizer will give you for the factory installed hard drive when you choose "no HDD" and what their price is for the SSD you want with the OS installed on it.

Some notebooks require mainboard removal to install or replace M.2 type SSDs so if you can't take the hassle of doing it get it customized with the M.2 type SSD by the reseller.

The SSD will also need to be set up as a new volume and formatted before you can use it.

I don't see any reason to close the thread.

 

On Amazon Prime, Samsung 860 Evo 1TB SSD 2.5" is $127. I am sure MSI could negotiate an even better deal with them to bring the price even lower.

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch...id=1543593077&sr=8-1&keywords=Samsung+860+evo

SSD prices are through the floor these days with no signs of slowing down.

 

It's 2018 for the love of Pete. All laptops should have an SSD.

 

Good point.