Want to ask about Eurocom Tornado F5

Like a title i want to ask about sound system, i see in spec they said it use Blaster MB5 so i dont know is it same to GT62VR sound system or different one? And the screen is 75Hz or 60Hz? And if it have 75Hz anyone here is Eurocom customer can give me some how long the screen with 75Hz will release or it already is 75Hz :-??

 

Sound Blaster is supplemental software. The actual sound chip (hardware) is Realtek HD audio. The GT62VR might use a similar - or even identical chip - but uses different speakers (DynAudio, while Clevo/Eurocom uses Onkyo speakers).

The screen is 60Hz, from what I recall, but some people have been known to overclock that.

 

So it will come out with DynAudio sound system? Humh overclock very promise . But it will have 120Hz too?

 

I do find it funny that the design of the barebone desktop CPU barebone blows their retail GT62 out of the water...

Anyway it's based on the MSI design so the MSI forum is going to be the best place for discussion on that.

 

Yeah that too funny when they sell the barebone for another guy and have cpu LGA i have no idea now xD

 

Most screens now are 60Hz. Anything higher than that will likely be advertised as such (75Hz - 120Hz).

 

The MSI barebones 16L13 doesn't blow the GT62 out of the water. The 16L13 LGA CPU add's no advantage in games, and offers nothing to most users other than higher power draw and generates more heat.

The 16L13 is hotter and uses more power - 230w isn't enough for it and yet that's the PSU it ships with. The 16L13 needs the 330w power supply.

The GT62 is a laptop CPU design, balanced for CPU / GPU thermal and power. In gaming the GT62 performs just as well as the 16L13, and has CPU power to spare - the CPU utilization in games is under 50% most of the time.

The barebones model uses a different motherboard chipset and only relates to the 16L13 by size and some similar peripheral components.

 

Wow, the 16L13 sounds like a better enthusiast machine no matter how you slice it... with a 330W AC adapter.

 

It's not sold that way, it comes with a 230w.

Testing hasn't shown the LGA CPU add's any value - side by side game performance testing hasn't been done yet.

 

Yeah, but most games are playable with the wimpiest of ordinary consumer CPUs. You're assuming that everyone that wants a 16L3 is going to want to do nothing but play games with it. If that's the litmus test, then everyone should stick with their 970M or 980M laptop if they are playing games at 1080p resolution and not care about 1070 or 1080 because those GPUs are not necessary.

Let's think bigger picture and step outside the box a bit.

And, it is not accurate that the Tornado F5 is not sold with a 330W AC adapter. Take a look... http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,384,0)ec

Along with a variety of drive and memory configuration options, the 330W AC adapter is also available as a $67 option. Even if it wasn't, it doesn't matter. The price is really good and if you had to pay more than $67 to buy a 330W Clevo AC adapter seperate from the configuration options it would still be worth it. And, according to @Diversion he is having no problems running the CPU at 4.0GHz and GPU overclocked using the 230W AC adapter. Only those eager to overclock the CPU would need the 330W AC adapter.

 

@Diversion is also doing rendering, and if he adds GPU rendering components to the job runs it will need that 330w power supply.

I didn't check the Eurocom site for the PSU availability, I was going by @Diversion comments that he needed an adapter to use a 330w PSU.

@Diversion also did a delidding, so he is now getting up to 4.2ghz - it's a good system for CPU heavy work, like he needs.

It's not accurate to say the 16L13 blows the GT62 out of the water, as for most buyers that just want a good gaming laptop they don't need a MSI 16L13 LGA model, and need to hear that so they aren't swept up into the frenzy - and get a laptop they don't need instead of the one they would have been happier with, the GT62.

The people that know what they need don't need to hear this, it's the ones that don't know the difference and get talked into a hot noisy laptop that needs lots of tweaking and tending to get the best performance that do.

Unfortunately they don't know that either

 

It depends on what you're measuring and what you are using as a litmus test whether it blows the GT62 out of the water. It's only true that it doesn't if you only use a measurement that is forgiving of the inferior CPU.

And, I think people do need to be swept up into a frenzy and I would absolutely love to see BGA become an increasingly unpopular object of loathing and contempt to put pressure on the OEMs to stop peddling garbage; or at least offer acceptable alternatives that are not BGA. That's one of the reasons some of us post so much vitriol for this pathetic filth. You will have what you are willing tolerate and nothing more that that, and if too many tolerate it then those of us that have a problem with inferior BGA junk will end up screwed with no acceptable options left. We're almost there already, unfortunately. If enough us stick together and keep railing on it, maybe eventually enough people won't want anything to do with it and BGA junk will earn a bad reputation in the enthusiast community like AMD did with their pathetic laptop garbage.

So, consider it a worthwhile cause for the greater good. People that want BGA can buy an ultrabook with ULV CPUs and rejoice with their wimpy notebooks that are whisper quiet and have long battery life. The people that are OK with inferior or simply "adequate" CPUs in big gaming laptops can tune it out if they don't want to hear it.

 

I'll have to comment tomorrow..

 

I said design, not gaming performance. Look at those power extra phases and extra M.2 slot.

One had a chassis built around it, the other was built down to a price.

 

It's a different laptop, a desktop chipset, of course it's different, but "barebone desktop CPU barebone blows their retail GT62 out of the water" is superfluous hyperbole.

 

The design of the motherboard does, may I remind people I choose my words very carefully so be sure to read all of them.

I don't tend to keep waffling on so it should be easier for people.

 

No you didn't choose your words very carefully, as you say now you are talking about the motherboard, and then you said the whole GT62 of which the 16L13 has little or no relationship.

You need to add words to support your overall thought.

That's why short answers are just shields to protect invalid premises that can't be supported when the full light of complete detail are made available.

There is no water, nothing is being blown away, and again it's hyperbole of a useless and uninformed nature.

That's why I called you out on that buddy slap back talk to join in on the lynching of the GT62.

There is no need to lynch the GT62, it's a fine laptop.

 

I don't need to hide behind anything @hmscott

The GT62 has a 3 phase power delivery that needs a connection to the CPU heatsing to help dissipate heat, the barebone has an 8 phase power delivery capable of running a 6700K without cooling. The barebone has dual M.2 slots and thanks to the Z170 chipset supports PCI-E raid while the GT62 uses the lower end mobile chipset without it and only has a single M.2 slot. The barebone also has a 3 heatpipe CPU cooler vs the 2 in the mobile variant.

In terms of cooling, storage and power delivery there is no contest.

Does that mean the GT62 is usesless? No, it's just a lesser machine.

 

Why so much bickering?

Barebones price with a 6600K, gtx 1070, 32gb ram, 512gb m.2 and 240gb ssd configured at cyberpowerpc after coupon (retailmenot.com) was $1759.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Fangbook_4_XTREME_VR_200_Gaming_Laptop

GT62VR with a 1060 and a slower CPU, slower mechanical hard drive, price is $1800.
https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GT62VR-Dominator-012-Hardcore-i7-6700HQ/dp/B01IO9Y3TW

 

I'd like to see the BIOS options, especially the CPU overclocking section if there is one.

 

Are there any reviews of the barebones one anywhere? I'm having trouble finding any.

Would you guys choose CyberPower or Eurocom?

It looks like I can get a 6700 & 1070 for around $1400 after a student discount from Eurocom.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, no need for bickering. The Tornado F5 is more powerful, made better (no BGA filth) and less expensive. It is what it is. No point in debating. Anyone that wants to pay more and get less should feel free to do so.

Spoiler: You Can't Shag with BGA

 

I'd get it from Eurocom since it'll be cheaper with the student discount.

 

Thanks for clearing up what we all already knew

They are different machines, not a barebones GT62, and if the goal is to get a 1060/1070 for gaming, the extra hardware and power and cooling needed for the 91w CPU aren't needed to provide the same performance in games.

The GT62 comes with MSI's warranty and support, and the GT62 is supported by the boutique vendor and they work with MSI for the whitebox support. There are no BIOS downloads, or driver downloads, or support page from MSI.

So far the GT62 works fine out of the box. The owner can get right to their intended purpose of gaming or working using their new laptop.

While the 16L13 91w CPU needs / leads to the usual pulling apart of the laptop for re-pasting and attention to playing with the hardware and CPU tuning to get acceptable thermal performance.

Just like all the 91w CPU laptops.

 

Been following the GT62VR thread for a while now. @Talon and @Diversion both confirmed that the barebones is different only in cpu/gpu and mobo. Most of the MSI software works and the sound software package is actually better on the barebones. @Talon did a direct side by side comparison with photos.

Without repasting the temps were as good or better than GT62VR according to their benches so I'm not sure why you are saying it is a machine that needs attention. I would say it is a machine that need no more, or even less attention than GT62VR unless you want to take either of them to the next level. In which case there is only one machine that can go beyond.

As @Mr. Fox said, no brainer.

Or you could pay more for less and get the MSI logo. But why?

 

It's the difference between leading and breaking unhealthy paradigms or being lead and shackled by the mediocrity of status quo. We've seen what leading from behind looks like for the past 8 years and doesn't have a happy ending. Push-button gaming is for console jockeys and noobs. You can have the push-button OOBE for $500 with an XBOX or Playstation, or Alienware Alpha.

Pulling it apart and making it run cooler and better and faster is an important part of the joy of owning a beast. I'd still want to do that even if I didn't need to... step number one in the domination process.

User Manual: http://net.eurocom.com/download/m384_UserManual.pdf

Drivers: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/drivers(384)ec

 

You gotta ask yourself, why is the "better" laptop cheaper?

They don't give away free performance, but they will charge less for hardware that shifts the burden of tuning on to the owner.

There are negatives that are computed into the price. You have to ask yourself if you are the kind of person that proactively gets involved in his hardware and will do what is required to get things working.

And, the initial posts look happy, but the later ones from pushing the CPU show it runs too hot, pressuring the owner to disassemble, re-paste, then delid to get the temps down.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.793857/page-110#post-10358794

If you want to push the desktop CPU past what the laptop CPU will do, it takes tuning and talent to pull things apart and make them perform as desired.

If you want to use it out of the box for gaming, both will perform the same, if you want to do CPU intensive work - then you need to be prepared to do the after unboxing work to get the most out of the LGA laptop.

 

Time permitting, I will ask if @EurocomTechspert is willing to let me get my hands on a review unit and showcase what the Tornado F5 is capable of. My recommendation would be to go with Eurocom rather than CyberPower.

 

That would be great. I'm really interested in this machine if the chassis is built well. Can't find a GT62VR near me to check it out myself. Have any of the current owners mentioned how many hours they are getting on battery?

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

 

I am not sure if they have or not. The interest in this model seems to have peaked in the past day or two and I really hadn't paid much attention to it before.

I am going to ask my contact at Eurocom if that is possible. I think it would serve them and potential customers very well to get one of these little monsterbooks in front of more people, and I can give it a rigorous workout and highlight the things folks like us value most. It deserves much better than to be overshadowed by a mainstream BGA turdbook on no basis other than brand name popularity.

 

I disagree. This system is still very much plug and play. If you mean undervolting the CPU to -160mV out of the box to get better temps then yes it will require work. I did the exact same thing with my 6700HQ. I am running 4.0ghz on all cores stable and it will certainly make a difference in certain games and more games going forward. Usually FPS drops won't be there in CPU intensive titles and games like Squad and Arma 3 that pound the CPU get a huge boost.

I repasted because I had to take the heatsink off to replace the WiFi card. I choose the cheap-o realtek card because I had an Intel 8260 sitting around and it saved me $42. Otherwise the ICD7 that Eurocom used would have been perfectly fine.

Delidding is not necessary unless you plan to overclock to extreme desktop speeds. But then again I guy looking for plug and play wouldn't do that right? Especially a guy that doesn't know how to undervolt the CPU to a proper level.

The barebones gains:

Additional M.2, and raid 0 capability.
Better sound with Creative SBC 3
Upgradeable and downgradable CPU -- most likely Kaby Lake support
Cleaner look -- subjective
900Mhz at stock on all cores (nothing to sneeze at)

 

I was actually considering an Alienware again but this seems like a killer deal if build quality is on par. I'll probably end up going with a 6700 over a 6700K since it will only be used for gaming.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

 

Anyway to order from Eurocom without the logo on the lid? I feel like that was option in the past but it's been so long since I've been in the laptop market that I don't remember.

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Probably so, but you would need to ask them if you don't see an option to have no branding on the order configuration page.

 

Doing software tuning on the laptop CPU - undervolting - isn't going to require hardware chops, and can be done by inexperienced people with a little assistance from guides and one-on-one help. It's also not likely to provide a fatal result.

Out of the box means you don't need to take apart the laptop to accomplish the tuning.

You did re-paste, and will need to again when the paste oxidizes / cooks off sometime down the road, which an out of the box GT62 owner won't need to worry about.

Your level of hardware work is way beyond "out of the box", and without that work you wouldn't be getting as good of performance.

As I said, out of the box the performance will be the same, but to get the full potential of the LGA CPU you need to do that very hands on hardware work to get it performing.

Everyone so far has taken their 16L13 apart, re-pasted, some delidded or stated their intent to do so to get the best performance, and are still tweaking for more performance.

Getting an LGA laptop opens up this whole world of taking chances with your hardware. That's not always a good thing. It's a very hands on demanding experience.

That's all I am saying, it's not needed for gaming, it's fun - a diversion of attention and time away from your original usage intentions - and not something most should try.

 

Yes. Just email them and request NO LOGO. Thats what me an @Diversion did and they said no problem.

 

Yeah, going LGA is extremely dangerous! Proceed at your own peril folks! And, BGA is a great thing for MSI and Intel and NVIDIA and financial institutions that loan money to people that blow thousands of dollars buying a new laptop every year or two instead of repairing or upgrading what they have for a fraction of the cost. And, good Lord, don't we all know that what is best for them it is really great for consumers. Thank God we have them watching our backs and making all of the hard decisions for us. What in the world would we ever do without their loving kindness and care for us?

 

Yeah, plug and play and no hassle computing, that's what people want.

They have other things to do, and don't care to spend their lives doing systems tuning.

Just because we do doesn't mean we need to force that on everyone else.

It's a matter of perspective, it's not a 1 solution fits all world

 

Well, maybe some day little Johnny is going to become a man, put on his big boy pants, and desire more than a cookie-cutter turdbook like his baby sister Jane plays with. Hopefully, there will still be some stimulating LGA options available for him when he reaches puberty.

 

Nah, that just means it's time to show/tell/watch instead of being philosophical and let the potential buyers decide what they prefer to spend their money on. It's time to stop defending the malicious greed of the OEMs that are hell bent on screwing the public with their disposable BGA filth. Plus, it's more fun to occupy enemy territory and subdue opposition rather than move on. Break out the Mirakuru and take it by force, so on and so forth.

I should have something interesting to share in the next day or two, so stayed tuned. Things might get more interesting.

 

I'm not quite sure where you are coming from on this. I said in a previous post, @Talon and @Diversion both bought this laptop. They have done repastes, but only because they wanted to. Neither of them said that they had to do it for out of the box performance. Out of the box performance was superb according to both of them. They merely repasted and tweaked because that is their desire and prerogative. I don't see the point you are trying to make here.

You asked why the barebones is cheaper. The reason from what I can tell is simply the MSI logo and some stickers. If you want to pay more for the MSI logo and stickers, knock yourself out. I'm not forcing my opinion on you or anyone, however I would ask prospective buyers to ask themselves if the MSI name is that important to them when the stock performance and quality of the barebones is on par or higher in all testing and reviewing so far.

 

There is no BIOS options, it's practically identical to the GT62 bios aside from being able to enable RAID.

 

There are no reviews other than myself, @Talon and @keftih I believe as we are the only active owners discussing the Barebones.

I really recommend you read through the MSI GT62/1613 Barebones thread over in the MSI forums. We posted countless thoughts, impressions, performance, temps, findings, etc. on both units. Talon and I both owned the GT62 before moving to the Barebones.

 

Well, maybe we can change that... more to follow.

I'm thinking we might change that, too.

 

I think what needs to be the differentiating/deciding factor between the GT62 and the Barebones 16L13 is.. Do you want 2 years of warranty (GT62) or do you want a do-it-all machine with far better CPU sided performance and future upgradeability on the CPU side with 1 year of warranty?

I absolutely still love the GT62.. It's a COLD, quiet machine and with an undervolt, it never exceeded 31 watts (on the CPU) under Prime95 AVX Small FPU load which is incredible.. Of course, that's mostly because it's capped at 3.1ghz on 4 cores. I can also downclock to 3.1ghz on 4 cores on my 6700K and achieve the same exact wattage and be the same exact machine as the GT62.

I prefer the Barebones because I love running various profiles.. Battery saver, extreme performance, and a gaming profile. And perhaps the fact I can upgrade to Kabylake (not confirmed yet) without having to sell the entire system off is a huge bonus.

 

I like being in the LGA group now, i've seen the light! The thought of a desktop CPU in a 15" shell would normally terrify me but it's been a pleasant experience so far.. Maybe Skylake's more efficient architecture helped out things a lot.. Or that MSI has made an extremely nice machine in this regard this time.. Either way, it's an amazing machine..

That being said, I still think the GT62 is a great machine and does what it needs to do in an exceptional way for folks that just want a great all-around machine..

 

I think people are going to be surprised by what is possible with upgrades. The BGA jockeys will be sad 'cause they won't be able to participate unless they buy another notebook. (BGA = Better Get Another laptop.) I can't say more at the moment other than a 7700K upgrade should be available right around the corner for those that were smart enough to choose the 16L13.

 

I achieve the same exact battery life between the GT62VR and the Barebones when I set both machines to similar clocks.. I did run the Barebones at stock 4ghz and still got around 3+ hours of batt life doing normal light tasks.

 

Exactly spot on - the shift of tuning it out is on the customer.. Hence why it's a legit barebones system.. It's a desktop in a laptop.. It's on you to make it do what you want it to do.

 

Yes you just have to ask for it when you order it.. the sku "NO LOGO" is added. We all have the NO LOGO de-branded units.. Looks amazing.. I prefer it over the gamer-looking GT62.