Titan GT80 not booting off a clone drive 2.5" SSD

So I cloned the primary boot drive to the 2.5" SATAIII SSD that I installed in that slot, historically the clone process with Macrium reflect has always worked from one 2280 to the other 2280 SSD but having issues booting off this 2.5" drive. In fact BIOS does not even see it as a boot option, just the 2280 Samsung PM951.
No Samsung 850 visible which is what in the 2.5" slot.
This is very strange as I see it everywhere else, can access it, cloned to it with Macrium, ran bcdboot to put the boot files on it, followed the exact procedure that has worked for me with the other 2280 drives.


Used easybcd to create a bootable entry, Yet when I try to boot, it say something about missing files. It's like it does not even find it.

Is the 2.5" not even capable of being a boot drive? Is it something to do with PCIe versus SATA III?

 

What did you use to clone the drive? Personally I use macrium reflect and not once had an issue with a cloned drive.

Are you able to re-clone the original drive you cloned before?. If so give macrium reflect a try see if that helps.

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My clones have always been bootable without any tricks - but just on a Sata HDD. Either Macriun or Easeus used. I have used VisualBCD to create boot entries.

 

I think the problem is the UEFI mode the machine is in. It works with the M.2 PCIe drives but not SATA III 2.5" drive.

 

VisualBCD does not appear to be a user-friendly piece of software.

 

Not, but I got it working by just copying and altering the important entries from a working boot to another . And fix boot option did really fix some non booting disk.

 

Yeah, the SATA III 2.5" drive is bootable in the original GT80, and cloning from M.2 SATA to 2.5" SATA III works - I've done it before.

First off, did you go into the BIOS and set the boot order to add the 2.5" SATA SSD to the boot options list and make it the first choice? Or did you use the boot time F11 option to bring up the boot options and select it manually? If it's not added to the boot options list it won't show up in the boot order or the boot time F11 popup options.

Is the 2.5" SSD disk formatted for GPT or MBR? Legacy mode won't boot GPT, make sure you are in UEFI if you have a GPT formatted 2.5" SATA III drive.

Here's a doc for going the other direction, converting from MBR to GPT, which is the typical scenerio:

Converting a Data SSD or SSD with Windows® Installation from Legacy to UEFI without Data Loss
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...8/memory-and-storage/intel-optane-memory.html

That's converting from MBR to GPT, but GPT isn't bootable on Legacy mode, going from MBR / Legacy to GPT / UEFI is the subject of that link, which is the usual direction people want to go, not what you are doing if you are going from a PCIE (GPT) to SATA (GPT?/MBR?)...

See related note the this text about booting GPT in Legacy:

Boot from GPT hard disk in Legacy BIOS mode
https://www.aioboot.com/en/gpt-legacy/

"GPT is modern and has many advantages over MBR. However, there are also some issues with GPT booting in Legacy BIOS mode. GPT is part of the EFI specification, of course it will work best in UEFI mode. But maybe it will not be compatible and can not boot up on the BIOS computer, see more here. Microsoft also does not support booting Windows on a GPT hard disk in Legacy BIOS mode. However, in some ways, you can still install Windows on a GPT hard drive even if your computer only supports Legacy BIOS mode.

So far, MBR is still supported in both UEFI and Legacy BIOS boot. However, there are several reasons that you must use GPT instead of MBR. You can only create partitions up to 2TB on MBR disks, if you need to create partitions larger than 2TB or the total size of partitions on disks larger than 4TB, use GPT instead of MBR. For 3TB and 4TB hard drives, you can create multiple partitions with full disk space without having to convert the MBR to GPT, see how to partition a 4TB hard drive...

Windows Boot Manager does not support booting into Legacy BIOS mode on GPT disks. AIO Boot uses wimboot to do this.

How to Easily Convert GPT to MBR without Data Loss Using Command Prompt?
If you want to convert GPT to MBR during installing Windows, you can press Shift + F10 to bring out command prompt. After you open the cmd window, type diskpart.exe and click Enter. Backup data ahead of time is the promise that you can convert GPT to MBR using command prompt without data loss.Sep 25, 2017
https://www.disk-partition.com/gpt-...r-without-data-loss-using-command-prompt.html

Please let us know if your resulting SATA III drive clone is formatted GPT or MBR. Try adding the 2.5" drive to the boot options list as-is before going through a conversion attempt.

Hmmm, I also remember editing something in Windows to change booting from / to PCIE / SATA, but can't find a reference for it right now...

Also you need to pull the original drive before booting on the cloned drive so only the cloned drive is available to boot.

Otherwise you can get a hybrid boot where Windows boots from the new boot drive, but uses the partition from the original drive, which is a pain if you eventually "clean up / erase" the old boot drive still connected before fixing that hybrid boot.

When you get it working, please post the steps you used to get it working here.

 

When I go into properites, I see NTFS for Filesystem.
And partition style is GUID Partition table (GPT)

So yes. I am in UEFI mode and have a GPT-formatted 2.5" SATA III drive. Why doesn't it work then?



Please let us know if your resulting SATA III drive clone is formatted GPT or MBR

 

I'll send you a DM we can discuss off line...

 

Here is the pic when I select the 2.5" drive option, does not boot.
After doing the bcdboot C:\Windows /s X:
and it runs, okay copies all the header files.
The drive was copied with Macrium Reflect, worked very well with other drives.



And in BIOS, I cannot find the 2.5" drive in the list of bootable drives, it's not even there at all:



Except I see it here, in the rectangular box.

The PM951 at the bottom, that's the primary boot drive, the 2280 - that works without issues and that was the basis for the clone.

 

Let's go back to the DM to finish up, we can summarize the solution here later.

I added some additional questions in the DM, please check it out.

 

How did it go? Looks like you are cloning from SATA to NVMe which does not work because you need M.2 driver in the original OS.

 

It did not work.
I am trying to clone the OS from the boot drive which is Samsung PM951 1TB installed in the 2280 slot to the Samsung 850 1TB installed in the 2.5" slot.

The 2.5" drive is not even visible at all as one of the boot choices when you go into BIOS.
In the "boot" section. Why is that?


BTW:
My model is: GT80S 6QE

 

Is this what you did?
1. Inject the NVMe driver to the existing Windows on the SSD
2. Clone the drive
3. Swap
4. Test

 

1 - no. I am cloning from the 2280 SSD which is PCIe to the Samsung 850 which is SATA III. Why do I need the NVMe driver?

the problem is, I can see the SATA III drive if I am booted into the primary Windows 10 off the 2280 Samsung PM951 drive. But in the BIOS, the 2.5" Samsung SATA III drive does not appear in the list of bootable drives. I can make the SATA III drive bootable with the bcdedit but BIOS does not see it.

 

This seems a strange one even for me. I have gone from SM951 to a Sandisk X400 (SATA based) without issue and even from a Sm951 to HDD on 2.5" SATA.

I know you said you can not see the drive in bios is this at all or in the boot menu?

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Right have you changed the UEFI Harddisk Drive BBS Priorities?

If your SATA drive is bootable and using UEFI Windows install it will show up there and then it's a simple swap them over.

Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk

 

Right have you changed the UEFI Harddisk Drive BBS Priorities?

If your SATA drive is bootable and using UEFI Windows install it will show up there and then it's a simple swap them over.


I do not see the drive in the BIOS options.

 

NVMe SSD needs to have driver injected, otherwise it will not boot.
Can you try the procedures from my previous post and see if it works after? You will also need to change boot source since OS is trying to look for the OS from sata controller instead of NVMe controller.

 

You aren't hearing him.

He is already booting ok on an NVME M.2 SSD.

He is cloning from that NVME M.2 SSD to a SATA III 2.5" HDD, and it's not showing up in the boot options menu as an option to add to a Boot Option #1,2,3, etc

He is seeing the HDD in the devices listed elsewhere though, just not in the bootable devices available. The image cloned from the NVME M.2 drive to the 2.5" HDD isn't showing up as bootable in the BIOS.

If he selects it via F11 at boot time to get the popup menu he see's the 2.5" device but it fails to boot.

I suggested he do a test install from a fresh OS (Windows or Linux) install onto a 2.5" SATA III drive as a test, booting on an OS Install DVD / USB device and installing directly onto that 2.5" drive - to see if that will at least end up showing that 2.5" drive as a bootable drive.

He just isn't going the direction most do, what you are suggesting, from 2.5" SATA to M.2 NVME, he is going the other way...

 

1. From NVMe to SATA, still need to change the boot source.
2. Possibly need to recreate/rebuild from Windows utility bcdboot.

 

He also did that #2

But, I was concerned there might be a problem seeing GPT vs MBR on the SATA III, or Windows boot BCDedit might have messed up switching from NVME Windows to SATA Windows - I recall long ago doing this and needed to edit / change things in Windows for it to boot going this direction.

Also, I did this on the original GT80 SATA III 2.5", not the GT80S SATA II 2.5", not sure if the GT80S supports booting as off the 2.5" SATA 2 it does on the GT80 SATA 3 port.

That's why I thought a simple install of Linux / Windows from installer media on a freshly formatted 2.5" HDD would resolve the 2.5" SATA II boot-ability question, then go from there.

 

Gotcha. Perhaps there are multiple factors behind this, but SATA port shouldn't matter as long as it can be seen by the system. There are other things we gotta look into.
This is an interesting topic which is also a complex one that requires a lot of time to validate and to resolve.

 

That is correct, I have recreated the boot sector with the Windows tool bcdboot, followed the process that has worked for me for years.

 

I may have to try that option, remove both 2280 SSD I have, one of them holds the primary Windows 10 boot and install for example Linux onto the 2.5" SATA III -- however my question is, why would this SSD suddenly become visible during the Linux install when the BIOS does not it see it at this point?

I am not sure formatting it accomplishes anything as the content of the drive is not what enables it to be seen or not see by the BIOS, correct?

 

That is correct. It is seen by the system, from the primary Win10 boot that's located on the primary 2280 SSD, the PCIe one. I can see it, write data to it, use with Macrium Reflect, etc. Just not seen in BIOS at all as a boot drive, where you select the sequences of bootable disks.

 

I'd reformat from GPT to MBR as a test, GPT may be required depending on the OS / BIOS settings.

Also don't rule out installing Windows as a test, it's also easy to download and make an install DVD / USB flash drive to do a test install / boot.

No need to confuse things with a Linux distro / device support / conflict, stick with trying to make what you want to make work - a Windows boot of the 2.5" HDD.

 

The SATAIII disk is GPT-formatted at this point, You are saying to reformat it as MBR?

 

Yup, that's what I was saying. MBR format is what I booted from on the GT80 SATA III port.

 

Will try that.

 

In "Disk Management", when I right-click on the SATAIII disk, the "Convert to MBR" field is grayed out.

 

Did you format it first? I don't think it will allow a data containing (with partitions) conversion, as the conversion would destroy the partitions / data.

You can google it, but watch carefully the direction of conversion before following the instructions, most instructions are going the other way:
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+format+a+GPT+disk+as+mbr

This section looks ok:

Convert GPT to MBR using Disk Management
https://neosmart.net/wiki/convert-gpt-to-mbr/

Again, I'd try to do the Windows / Linux install on it while it is still GPT first, then if that fails do the reformat and convert to MBR.

 

Never mind, I deleted all volumes on that disk and now the "Convert to MBR" option became visible.

https://www.easeus.com/partition-master/convert-gpt-disk-to-mbr-disk.html

and I had to use the force option

https://superuser.com/questions/107...ion-without-the-force-protected-parameter-set

 

Now converting to MBR

and cloning with Reflect. Once the cloning process is done, I will bounce the box and see if the SATA III disk Samsung 850 shows up in BIOS as a bootable option. Of course after the bcdboot stuff.

 

Did you already try to install and boot on a Windows fresh install on the GPT HDD?

 

No. I do not have a Windows disk, just what came with the machine. I don't have a disk or a USB or anything to install off.

 

The Macrium reflect cloning process is almost done, I shall know shortly. It copies much faster over SSD, even with the target SSD is a SATAIII.

 

After the MBR conversion, I cloned the working boot disk to the SATAIII disk, did the usual bcdboot command and upon a reboot, no results. The same thing as before. It just does not see the disk in BIOS.

It sees in the storage section but not in the bootable disk section. Just Samsung PM951. Not SATAIII 850 Evo.

So I am back to square one.

do we have a solid understanding why this is going on and how to make bios see this SATA III disk in the boot section?

I am very close to giving up and will probably just give up at this point.
It's not a big deal.
I will just get a 2 more 2280s for the empty slots I have now and make them clones and keep this SATAIII as a storage disk, which was its original design anyway.

Samsung's PM981 1TB has dropped drastically, it's the same thing as 970 Pro it seems.

I have had luck with making the 2.5" SATAIII an encrypted container using VeraCrypt and accessible regardless of which disk I boot off, the primary 2280 or the mirror disk 2280 (both PCIe obviously) Maybe I should keep using this strategy.

 

The only thing I'd suggest from your list of steps is to not do the BCDedit/BSDboot steps after the cloning, make sure to remove the original drive and any other bootable drive besides the 2.5" HDD before trying to bot on the HDD.

IDK what's wrong, it's like the 2.5" SATA II port in the GT80S isn't bootable, seems like an odd thing to do by MSI.

What did MSI say about this?

 

For verification purposes, what if you use diskpart to clean the disk completely, then would BIOS sees the drive? Try flipping between UEFI & CSM mode and see if the SSD gets detected or not.

 

If you go back to post #10, image #3, you'll see he can see the drive in the BIOS. He can even see it in the F11 boot options at start up - image #1 in Post #10 - but it won't boot.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...f-a-clone-drive-2-5-ssd.825709/#post-10816692

In the BIOS it won't show up under the popup menu for setting the numbered Boot Options, post #17 image #2:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...one-drive-2-5-ssd.825709/page-2#post-10819956

 

IDK what to say, you need to have parts around to do stuff.

Pick up some cheap 4GB-32GB USB 3.0 flash drives for data / booting flexibility.

You don't need the original Windows disk, get some burnable blanks and make one - you must have a DVD burner and blanks? Get them.

And, build a second computer while you are at it, it helps for testing out problems like this - you could be plugging in the drive into another machine and try booting there.

Also, an external USB 3.0 hot swap stand / caddy for drives is handy, or USB 3.0 external cases that are easy to swap in / out drives.

Build up your tools chest

 

Thanks Scott, so the drive is detected by BIOS but not bootable. I was confused with the previous post saying the drive is not detected nor bootable.

etcetera, you can download the ISO directly from Microsoft then just load it from there.
I guess you can attempt a repair using the USB flash drive.
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209

 

Did you try changing the Boot Mode from UEFI to Legacy in the BIOS?

 

I don't want to change from UEFI to Legacy because I fear it will jeopardize my primary disk which is working just fine. If I have to make such major architectural changes, I will just use the 2.5" SATAIII as the data disk and forget about booting it.

But I was just curious why it does not work. The Samsung EVO 850 1TB 2.5" SATA III disk.

 

Bummer, as this wasn't easy. Regarding the option which shouldn't cause boot failure unless you make changes to the OS.

 

what does changing the boot option from UEFI to to Legacy do? I thought it was supposed to be UEFI by default.

 

It would render GPT partition unable to boot if it's the system drive. Nothing on the drive itself would be altered.

 

Use Syncback or CloneApp to backup everything incl. App data and reinstall the OS OR you can try changing the UUID of cloned disk and new SSD so that BIOS can see that UUID and boot off it. It seems like UUID conflict to me.

 

I did and it failed to boot completely. Had to change it back.