***The MSI GT60/70 Dominator 970M Owner's Lounge***

980m 970m 880m 870m and 780m use the same vbios boot flag (same memory location) so that does make the older GT60's upgradeable. The only problem is getting a compatible heatsink as the new cards have some SMDs shifted around. Card availability is a bit scarse right now, better wait for around december/january. Also prices should be around ~500$ and ~700$ for the 970m and 980m respectively.

Regarding repasting and NOS/battery concerns:
Always repaste as the factory paste job is a bit sloppy (it was on my GT60 too). It will make a difference and your card will throttle less with more stable temps.
Ryzeki was right in mentioning that changing the thermal pad with thermal paste on the bridge heatpipe makes for a more "balanced" heat distribution (the reason why that bridge was made anyway).
NOS does kick in when BOTH GPU and CPU go in their boosted states. I've measured it and power consumption spikes around the 207W mark (with my 780m and 4700mq) on very taxing tasks (OpenCL calculations on both the GPU and CPU at the same time..)
My battery wear is at the 7% level right now because I use it unplugged sometimes. Just calibrate the battery with MSI's software once every 4-5 months and during the initial 3-4 charge cycles don't let it fall below the 2% mark. This ensures an optimal battery cell "programming"

 

The same reason why I love so much my GT60 (16F3).. I updated to 51x bios and T18 firmware.. I'm just waiting for December or early next year for prices to go down to 600-700$ for the price... Ebay so expensive to buy one ...

The only problem I can see is a compatible heatsink just what you said @felix3650 ... Right now I am hunting for a gpu heatsink for 780/880m so i can mod it later when any one of you guys gets one soon... Or you guys know where to get one?

Oh but wait... Has anyone of you got a picture of 980/970M? all I can see are sticker pictures. If anyone got one,, can you post it here? Many thanks....

 

I've only saw someone else say this. Can anyone confirm?

I have my GT60 hooked up to an external monitor and was wondering does the GT60 pull air from the bottom of the laptop or through the top of the keyboard?

 

It takes air from the bottom and spread to the sides.

 

Sorry I'm about to pull the trigger on a GT70 2293 and I'm a bit concerned at the noise level from the fan. From ur above descriptions I'm a bit confused.

I know that when Turbo is on it's extremely loud. But i want to know what the fan is like when Turbo is off, during 1) idle and 2) under stress.

If we are playing extreme games for hours on end, and choose to not turn on Turbo, are temperatures gona go into the danger zone for the CPU and GPU?

Also, now that u guys mention thermal paste, if we pay XoticPC or Gentech for the option of thermal compound, do they always actually apply the IC Diamond? The reason I ask this is because I know for a fact that SOME sellers don't actually apply the paste, instead ur paying them to do a unmonitored test of temperature where if they find the temperatures are outside what is deemed normal, they will then apply the paste (they call it "Thermo Dynamic Guarantee with IC Diamond Applied" AKA ur paying only for a guarantee rather than actually having the repaste done which I think is pretty BS).

 

Would that also hold true for GT70? Thanks.

 

I can say that MSI GT70 Dominator is very quiet in idle mode. Under stress is louder, but not as loud as when you turn on the Turbo Fan. It gets very noisy, but it's extremely effective. It lower the CPU and GPU temperatures with 10 C. If you are going to play stress games I recommend you turn on the Turbo On. Otherwise the temperatures are going to rise up quickly. Thermal paste can also help especially IC Diamond, but not as turning on the Turbo. Also, you can use some notebook coolers, but they are not as effective in lowering temperatures of CPU and GPU compared to Turbo Fan. One big advantage of GT70 2293 is Nvidia GTX 970M which runs cooler than 870M and 880M. So, you probably not reach temperatures above 75-80C, but it depends of what games you are playing and for how long. I can say that Turbo function is extremely good, and it does lower the CPU and GPU temperatures, but it's loud. The important think is that is the most effective cooling solution that any notebook cooler you can try.

 

Components automatically throttle before they reach designed dangerous temps. This notebook works without turbo fan for most games, but personally I think it really depends on your ambien temperature. Since normal fan control is very silent, even under stress, the machine can get hot but this was a design choice. That is why turbofan is included.

If you select a reseller to repaste, remember them via email. I have bough most laptop from gentech and they have always come through with repasting.

And yes, GT70 also takes air in from the bottom. I use mine as a desktop mode at home, using a Cooler Master U2 cooling pad and hooking up external mouse, keyboard and monitor. I have 0 temp issues, but i use my custom fan profile so I rarely see temps over 70s degrees, specially now with cold ambient temps.

IT really is recommended to repaste, all in all. At least to ensure you will run at full performance with no throttling.

 

You can hear the air coming out of the vents, at idle even.

Fan noise is rather subtle. The fan contains no whine or hum to it like some other laptops. It's easily mixed in with other noises you may have going on such as the game you're playing or the movie you're watching. I've yet to find the fan annoying.

I can confirm that Pherein's fan control works flawlessly on the new gen GT60 as well. You can set certain fan speed % at certain temps and it works fantastic.

Buy the laptop, you aren't going to regret it. I did 2 hours of crysis 3 and didn't hear the fans ramps up to 100% nor did I encounter throttling.

 

I really don't plan on using the Turbofan becoz of how noisy it is. If u set Pherein's fan control to 100%, is that basically what Turbofan is? Becoz if that is the case, then that virtually makes the Turbofan redundant seeing Pherein allows u to increase in increments as well as achieve max fan speed.

Does anyone have the temperatures for the CPU and GPU, under max load, WITHOUT any fan control and also WITH Turbofan on?

I'm still deciding between the GT70 and ASUS G751 JT, I've always been with ASUS but I'm down to try MSI. However, if the cooling system/temp/noise for MSI is that much inferior to ASUS then I might just go with ASUS.

 

I can do a benchmark when I get some free time.

I am a pre-asus user. But not being able to paste CPU/GPU is a big no no for me.

 

Is the graphics cards soldered or is it a mxm card?

 

MXM.

I think we've already covered that.

 

Thanks, sorry for being lazy

 

I currently own an Asus G53SW, and even though getting to the CPU/GPU is abt a hundred times harder than the new asus g751 or msi gt/gs (u literally had to tear the machine apart as opposed to just removing the back lid), i still managed to replace my paste.

And please do the benchmark thanks ✴

Ps: Wot ab the Pherein fan control,?

 

Just to give you an idea, the fan usually operates around 30 to 45% I think. Turbofan does go to 100%. Personally, even overclocked on my much more power hungry and hotter 780m OC, I usually max at 70% fan speed to keep really cool temps. You can definitely use up to 60 or so % of fan speed and play without issues.

But if noise is really your concern, go for the GT72. Simply runs cooler by virtue of having two massive powerful fans

 

What were your temps like during the crysis session? Do you have the PLS screen or is it TN?

 

It's MXM:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/msi/760347-ms-1762-trouble-upgrading-780m.html#post9809706


And here is 3DMark11 with temperatures with IC Diamond, without TurboFan:

 

Wow those are pretty decent temps, esp the new 970m GPU.

Now is that the GT60 or GT70? Will the temps be the same for both of those?

***

With regards to Pherein's fan control, and Turbofan:

- Can Pherein's be set anywhere from 0% to 100%, at max making it equivalent with Turbofan?
- Does Turbofan allow u to select the fan speed increase, or is it just a flat unadjustable 100%?

Many thanks~

 

how are you getting these scores in 3dmark11? mine can barely reach 8600?

 

Depends on his settings vs yours.

 

Depending on the tool version, yes, you can adjust a fan table to which fan speed operate at which temps. You could put that if temps reach 90 degrees, C, it should turn fan speed at 100% if you wish.

Turbofan is a single button command that turns your fans to 100% in a ramp. You can't adjust it, it is an ON/OFF setting.

GT60 and GT70 temps are largely the same, perhaps GT70 slightly benefiting from the larger chasis.

 

What settings would u be referring to?

Ah ok thanks! Apart from Pherein's fan tool, are there other fan tools u'd recommend?

 

guys what sort of scores are you getting in 3dmark11 with the gtx 970m?

 

It was tested with GT60 and I am pretty sure GT70 with larger chassis will perform better than GT60 in temperature.

I haven't test Pherein's fan control yet but I am pretty sure 100% max will be equivalent with Turbofan.

Its the normal score for GTX970M and nothing needs to be tweak, watch our video at 13:04:

 

Why do I keep getting 8600 in 3dmark11 with gt70 "4710+970m" , is my unit defected ????

 

Thanks for bench and temps ! that's very promising.

 

Thanks.

I'm sure u will be pleased to know that I've gone ahead and ordered my GT70 from u guys. First time I've gone with GenTechPC, hopefully none of my customisations will be missing (esp thermal paste!) since I live all the way across the world and shipping to and fro would be just costly. I'll be sure to do a full review of my experience when I get my laptop,, can't wait ~~

 

Glad to hear you decided on the GT60 It is a great machine and trust me I will be trying to upgrade my 780m to 970m as soon as money and availability allow it!

Be sure to keep GentechPC posted with any needs you want, via PM or email. It is best to ask them directly for any concern you might have with the purchase you made.

I have dealt with them before though, so I am sure your order will be 100% fine

Definitely! Even if 970m is slightly more powerful than my 780m, it has way more overclock potential and lower temps, as well as lower power consumption. IT sounds like a great fit for GT60/70 series!

What drivers do you have? Be sure to update all drivers, both integrated and dedicated GPU, and try monitoring temps and % utilization. I recommend MSI afterburner if only for their indicator windows, as well as HWmonitor. We need to see your individual scores too, not only the total 8600, but rather the physics, the GPU score etc, to find what could be causing the slightly slower score. But don't sweat it, a defective unit does not score nearly as high in 3dmark. Hell, not even my overclocked 780m reaches that score easily!

 

here is a screenshot , im using 344.24

 

Download Daves's Fan Tool over in the MSI GT70 2OD Owner's Loungs. Page 1.

It's a great program with many other features built into it. Was created by DavePearson a user on these forums and a GT70 owner. It works on my GT60 2OD with 780m. Should work fine on newer GT60/70 and possibly 72s.

Edit: Here is link

http://gentechpcforums.com/Images/Softwares/MSI/GT70 Fan Control V1.6.3 setup.zip

 

Awesome, I will try this one out

 

It doesn't allow you to select temp thresholds like Pherin's Tool, but it allows you to rather select the exact % of fan speed you would like the fan to run at. If the internal sensors detect that percentage won't allow the computer to adequately cool for its current load, it overrides the tool and uses it own built in fan profiles.

Something around 70-80% max fan speed during gaming should adequately cool the 970m and allow for a significant reduction in noise.

 

it seems im getting 8600 cuz of low physics score , any idea what would cause a low physics score even though my machine spec is identical with the other gt70 that are getting 9300??

 

I see, thanks! It should work as an alternative. My profile already runs up to 75% I believe, so I can just set it at 60% when I know I am not doing anything too heavy.

How is your power profile set for your laptop? Are you running in power saver, full performance etc? How are temps on your CPU during testing?

 

it is set on high performance and the cpu temps are 60-70 during tests , do i need to install intel chipset driver or somethin?

 

You can try updating, and perhaps giving a go to Intel XTU. For now, the difference is minimal so I wouldn't worry. Compare your framerates and they are basically the same. The physics score is not so relevant, the important score is graphics and you are doing alright.

Scores can be affected by background software, amount of software opened/running etc.

 

Even just the differences in the Physics calculation run itself can cause variations too.

 

I ordered my GT70 2293 last week, did a rush order with Xotic Pc and so far everything is going smooth. I can't wait to get the unit! Did a few upgrades like ram, blu-ray, repaste of cpu/gpu. Really excited to see how well the 970m is. I was having a really hard time convincing myself the upcharge for the gt72 with the 780m was really that much better than this laptop.

 

I assume you meant 980m? For usability if the saving let's you get a nice large ssd instead then the gt70 still has a lot to offer.

 

Yes sorry I meant the 980m, I have a 500gb Samsung evo SSD I plan to put in it. Still being cautious about the whole warranty sticker though. I know that as long as nothing was damaged that it does not void the warranty, but I worry that something unrelated might break later and that would not help my case for getting it fixed.

 

Exactly... paying a full $800 USD just for an upgrade from GTX 970M to GTX 980M (which is about 20% faster), that's just not worth it.

Unfortunately its the GT70 who has an upgradeable CPU, and not the GT72. And yet the GT70 only comes with GTX 970M while GT72 can have GTX 980M. Plus if very demanding future games bottleneck on the i7 4700HQ/MQ, then the better GPU won't matter anyways.

 

You can't do anything if future games bottleneck the core i7 then people just don't understand that the "upgradeable CPU" is almost useless because the performance difference is very small unless you go with the fully customizable xtreme editions. 3.5gh, 3.8ghz etc won't be the difference btween 30fps and 60fps at all.

If your CPU trully is bottlenecking you to the point you can't game, not even extreme edition will help you there. The main advantage or reason to go with a powerful faster CPU is to ensure very high fps to use 120hz screens etc or minimize minimal fps. This usually makes sense for high end GPUs and SLI. Even 980m has a very small performance increase.

 

U tryna say dat games will bottleneck on the GTX 980m way before they'll bottleneck on the i7 4700HQ/MQ?

 

if you buy a properly matched set of components, bottlenecks are untraceable usually. But yes if you go sli on top level cards and have a lame cpu then you will, but most people don't buy things that way.

The stated 20% increase for the 980m....let's say that's the average in every game. If the 970m gets 45fps in a game, that's only 54fps on the 980m. Not really that huge. Now if the 970m is at 30, I could see the extra 6fps helping but I'd rather just lower a setting and have 800 bucks for something else lol

 

Hey guys, I am back with a gaming laptop for the first time in 4 years! Moving abroad again and a gaming lappy is the only way to go. Anyways, I got the GT70 2292US and have been putzing around with it and though I would share what I have done and found. First off, which is super strange to me, I did a repaste and my temperatures went up about 1-2C! I build computers, especially gaming computers, all the time so I am confident it has nothing to do with my pasting ability or job (I redid it three times all with the same temps) so I am thinking maybe the connection between the gpu and cpu heatsinks has been slightly compromised or something. It is crazy because the stock pasting job was horrendous to say the least and to think my temps went UP after a good repaste is just.. well... it doesn't sit right. I have to note I am using Noctua thermal paste which I know is not the best but I can't get IC diamond in time, I can't get thermal pads in time and I have Arctic Silver 5 although in every build in the past that have I done I have yielded lower temps with the stock Noctua paste over Arctic Silver 5 which is weird, but the numbers don't like.

So, I have been using Unigine Valley as my testing program and my ambient temperatures here are fairly cold; I'd say it is around 18C in the room I am testing in max. Stock paste the temps hit about 76-77C after leaving on Valley for 20 or more minutes with stock fan profile. After pasting I now get 77-78C leaving valley on for around 20 minutes. I downloaded Pherein's fan tool along with RWE and set a custom fan profile which has allowed me to keep my temps around 73-74C having it blow at 70% at 70C. With these temperatures in a chilly room I am not looking forward to seeing what I get at my destination where it is going to be way warmer. I don't like all of this because with nVidia's super crappy boost technology my OC gets throttled starting around 70-72C in order to bring it down to the stock 924mhz at 80C. I am used to AMD where you get to set the clock and then all you have to do is deal with the temps and not have it auto throttle your clocks. I really, really dislike this nVidia boost junk.

With the new fan profile set I get these results: Regular 64.2 FPS - +25 core +100 mem 65.8 FPS - +50 core +100 mem 66.3 FPS - anything over 100 memory negatively impacts the performance.. why? No idea.

The problem with upping the core is that the meager amounts of mhz we gain end up just making the card hotter and throttle more. I wouldn't mind for a second my GPU running at 80C and keeping the core clocks stable at what I set it, but it seems nVidia is eager to displease enthusiast overclockers.

Now for some questions:

1. There is supposed to be Sound Blaster Cinema 2 on this machine where it is only running Sound Blaster Cinema 1 (1.004 to be exact)
2. I cannot get my CPU to boost up to the specified 3.3ghz even though the temps are in the 60s I can only get 3.1ghz
3. Are my temps bad? I kind of want to take this laptop back although there are no other options at the moment and I am leaving my country in about a week. I have enjoyed Asus in the past and even though they have a larger profile the cooling is much better than MSI and also their monitors are of much better quality

Its a decent laptop, but I don't know what to think at the moment. Repasting for higher temps has me in a mediocre mood atm.

Thanks for reading guys!

 

Your temps are FAR from bad, from any possible and reasonable expectation. CPU temps for the intel 4700 and upwards are on the 80s to 90s for 90% of the notebooks except those with exceptional cooling (which still can reach 80s). GPU temps at 70 are LOW. Monitor your CPU and GPU utilization to see the behaviour. It is odd that the GPU "throttles" at such low temps. Usually they would throttle upwards of 90 degrees C. Kepler GPUs like 780m started downclocking at 93 degrees Celsius exactly.

If repasting yielded no improvements in temps, it means it was "okay" to begin with. Even if you do the best job, and the temps it had were lousy, you probably reduced the max temps but not the average work temps. It is also recommended to put thermal paste over the bridge instead of a thermal pad that comes with the laptop, but that is just an extra bonus.

As for why overclocking negatively affects perfomance, I don't know. We don't know much about maxwell yet to know what could be happening.

Maybe you need to tweak intel XTU to get the max performance out of your CPU. I don't know what could be causing it.

 

I run my GT60 with 780m (hot box) at +135Mhz core, and have a 4900MQ. BF4 (the game that heats my laptop the most) on high/ultra settings will get me around 80-83C CPU and 73-74C GPU on MAX/Turbo fan. I don't have the laptop on a cooler, and it is sitting flat on my wood desk.

I also have the 4900MQ undervolted -90mV to get max clocks out of the CPU and best possible temps.

Your temps are great. I would undervolt the 4700MQ -90mV or -95mV depending on stability and overclock it the +200MHz available. Its a great CPU, and I wish I had just stuck with it. It ran cooler and gave comparable performance once overclocked.

 

Thanks for the response guys. I know the temps are good objectively although since the boost clock starts to come down at suck a low temp I am hesitant to see them as good temps. I guess I did not explain what is going on well enough. Boost 2.0 is designed to keep the card at 80C when at the specified stock clock, in this case 924mhz) and will boost all the way up to 1038mhz when thee is thermal headroom under 80c. This means that as it start to approach 80c, looks like starting around 74c on the 970m) boost 2.0 kicks in and starts to scale the card down until it hits 924mhz at 80c. I don't like this feature at all because I would be happy with full "boost" or OC clocks at 80c myself. I guess with the OC I can basically set what it will not go under until it hits 93c. My OC will juggle the base clock and with thermal headroom is will go down from there. I get it, but I don't like it... I want stable clocks like AMD gives. That's just me...

As for the CPU, the first unit I got had a defective keyboard while the CPU behaved in the same manner only hitting 3.1ghz on turbo for all four cores.

I will try putting some paste between the bridge of the gpu and cpu to see if that helps anything and also play with Intel XTU (I had no idea it existed so thanks).

Is there any way to write my fan profile to the EC with read and write everything? I have a task set up to apply it, but it would be cool to have it on the hardware level once I sort it out. Also, if you guys want me to try anything on the laptop let me know and I can share my results.

EDIT: I got my CPU to run at the desired speed during a stress test by upping the turbo boost power max from 47w to 50w. I also overclocked the cpu 200mhz and although it does not stay steady at 3.5ghz it hovers around 3.5-3.4ghz which is better than nothing. There is a lot for me to learn about mobile overclocking so I hope to be able to find out how to get the speeds to stay at their max during heavy use. @Talon any advice concerning this would be much appreciated as it seems you know what you are doing in respect to mobile CPUs. Thanks!

 

is it possible to overclock the 970m to get it to give the performance of a 980m?