Tested GT70 610US Dragon Edition, maybe I should wait for GTX780m afterall

So I did a fresh installation of win 7 ult on this newly acquired laptop and did some testing on it. Here are the results:

3D mark 11:


3D mark Vantage:


I don't know where my heaven benchmark went but it's around 1643 with a min FPS of ~27 and max of ~124, a bit lower than 追求極致效能與影音享受之高階ç†é›» - msi Gaming GT70完整解析 - WIND3C - 無名小站 this guy's

GTX680m idle temp(at the same time updating BF3 and running CDM) is 37 degrees C
So far so good? Ok, how about the SSDs?

Crystal disk mark testing RAID 0 SSD:


Very disappointed at this as other people has much higher score than mine, see:
追求極致效能與影音享受之高階ç†é›» - msi Gaming GT70完整解析 - WIND3C - 無名小站
and
17.3" high performance gaming NB - Limited MSI GT70 Dragon Edition

With bootracer:

Stable at 8s logon and 8s desktop, total of 16s later. With any combination it did not go lower than 16s, never did even when the system has just been installed!! My desktop has a lot more apps installed with a single SSD and it averages out at 12-13s, 6-7s logon and 5-6 to desktop? What is this RAID 0 BS!
I used AS SSD benchmark as well, results are not good as well.

Next up I quickly played BF3 and Crysis 2, this is where things fall apart:

this is the intro part of crysis 2, under maxed settings with high textures and DX 11, 22.8 fps seriously? it even dropped to 20.x fps a little later.

Ok, how about no DX 11?

Still bad 23.8fps? This is taken when I had a grenade explode beside me just before going into the subways.

And then I tested idle fps in Crysis 2. I was just standing there in the middle of the street.

40.5 fps? I don't know about this...

Finally I played both BF3 campaign and multiplayer: on max settings:
Campaign: Pretty bad, the parachute part (3 Russian dudes trying to capture another Russian dude, late in the game) I got below 30 fps. didn't capture that so I took a screenshot on the road:

30.8 fps??? COME ON!

OK, what about multiplayer?

This is the loading part, 29.9 fps? ?
(When I'm playing I get 30 something fps in combat, so shooting each other, 41-53 fps when I'm running around doing nothing)

and just look at those GPU usage 90+ degrees C and mostly 99% usage

Now I did do some other tests but they don't look too good as well. And just by looking at the above, I can already see me returning this laptop and wait for the new gen to come...

So much work for nothing sigh

It came with Windows 8 but it was brutal, with bootracer I'm getting 10s to logon and 16s to desktop, I thought win8 is supposed to be faster than win7???

 

Hi mate,

Problem is that those 2 SSD used are ty Sandisk U100 with lower bandwidth. When I had my GT780DX with a Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, it went from POST to Desktop in 12 sec (Win7).
Also your 680m is throttling. At that temp it's definitely a bad pasting job. If you can repaste, do it. Your temps will be much lower (around lower 80s I think). If not then returning the notebook is the only option (unless you know someone who can repaste for you..) I'm sorry you had a disapointing first experience..

 

I mean I can disassemble all the components and built from scratch but having all those problems makes me think it's not worth the time and I will lose all warranty if I crack up the case so. I'm just trying to stay at software level. But yea, the RAID, is a real disaapintment at least in this laptop

 

my guess is that you did not turn on write back cache causing the low write speeds, under device manager, disk drive, raid volume inside properties and policies tab check both boxes, go on IRST and under manage, select your raid volume(not separate drives) and in advanced tab you should be able to enable write back cache, then run your benchmarks again

shame you can't flash the unlocked bios unless you get to msi hq forum and ask for one... otherwise you can disable bigfoot boot agent, plus some (a lot) hidden features that you will be able to change(and stop yourself from booting into windows until you revert them)

additional note, it is not risky opening up the notebook for repasting, unscrew back cover, unscrew the fan, take it out and unscrew the 4 screwed heatsink, and finally use plastic tools to remove previous paste on both the card and heatsink, apply paste and undo all the BS i told you, then pretend nothing ever happened to the laptop, except for better temps

 

Your shot of Crysis 2 shows 93 degrees C temp for your GPU. Can you perform more test and use HWMonitor, GPUz, MSI Afterburner or whatever monitoring software you want/can use? 93 degrees celsius is the max temp the gpu takes before self throttling. If that's the case, it could be diminishing your gaming performance considerably.

Repasting will be a must in that case. It shouldn't affect your warranty but if you are concerned, talk to your reseller about it. Your usual temps while gaming should be around 80, not that high, with a proper paste job.

That being said, Crysis 2 is still one of the most demanding games available.

 

Considering this thread's title, my thought is..... even if he gets his GT70 functioning normally, he will still soon drool for a GT70 2OD.

 

I had that turned on the moment I setup my system. And I disable disk defragment and a few other things I can think of and it does not increase a single bit. In fact, it kept on decreasing.

I know how to disassemble and put everything together. It's just this manufacturer warranty sticker is getting in my way and there is no way to take it apart without breaking it. The MSI guy told me specifically I void the warranty if I do that.

I just played a few BF3 multiplayer games and the temperature stayed at 89-92 degrees C. I guess it's a bit lower because my room temperature isn't as high as yesterday. I also played a few mission in Crysis 2 and it ALWAYS stayed at 91 degrees C at its lowest. GPU usage is constantly at 99% via MSI afterburner. I also tried varies Heaven Benchmark settings and everytime the GPU temp will go up to 9x degrees C. I also tried Dead Space 3, same deal here.

I've searched on the web to see what other people have and they all seemed to stay well at under 80 degrees C. IN battlefield 3 the GPU usage is about 50-75% according to Xoptic PC. So the card in my laptop definitely needs tuning or a replacement.

@ryzeki

Haha, now you have mentioned it, I am drooling for the next gen already! Benchmarks look crazy on the new cards.

under the suggestion of @ObserverJLin
I did a ASIC test using GPU-Z and it showed up as 73.5%

I'm assuming that is very bad?

 

It's not bad. It's just that it won't be able to overclock that high. ASIC quality % is meant to measure the chip's efficiency at working out of regular parameters.

 

Might I just ask where you get the unit from? I'd avoid it since MSI international warranty is happy about aftermarket upgrades, its just your reseller doing extra tricks

 

um.... i'm curious about the percentage issue. My 1762 also have 98-99% GPU usage shown by MSI afterburner while playing BF3, doesn't it a "good sign" that the game fully using the gpu (the terms "utilize" for the game) ??????

look forward an answer on it too!

 

Yes, as long as your temps are stable.

 

GPU usage suppose to be at 99% unless CPU is the bottleneck or throttling.

I would suggest check or repaste the thermal compund on GPU.

probably purchased from Canada, the GT70 ONE-610US is a Canadian SKU.

 

But I checked other people's usage and the cap I see is ~75-80% max. I saw the videos on youtube too and their 680m doesn't shoot up to 99%. And I doubt a 3630QM would bottleneck the 680m.

And yes it is a Canadian model purchased from ME.

 

It is purchased from ME in Canada

 

For some earlier drivers yes, also it has something to do with Vsync setting it the game, if it's not properly setup the GPU usage will drop.

Also I am not saying 3630QM is the bottlenect, what I mean is if CPU is the bottlenect or throttling the GPU usage will drop.

 

If you are not running with any limiting software or setting like vsync in game, your GPU utilization should be 99%. Any lower would probably mean CPU bottleneck (provided you don't have vsync, or anything limiting framerate).

Now it also depends on the game, like the case of Splinter Cell Conviction, when in multiplayer it is hardcoded to run at 30fps or the lowest fps out of you and your pal.

 

I am running crysis 2 right beside me in pause mode. The temperature reading atm is 90 degree C. FPS is 31.8 fps (just dropped ) reading on the screen. At full ultra settings with high texture files and motion blur to high

 

If you reach 93 degrees, the GPU self downlocks to lower speeds which makes a noticeable drop in performance. 90 degrees is on the hot side, have you cleaned your fan vents lately? Has it always behaved this way?

If you have cleaned your vents and you keep getting such temps in games, you will have to repaste. Playing on the 80°C range is normal, but reaching all the way to 90 without overclocking is most likely an actual issue.

for comparison, my unit at the same settings, overclocked, runs at 81 degrees.

what's your CPU temp? Normal range of CPU temps for core i7 36XXQM cpu are between 40s and 80s tops. Idle temps can be 34-40 while normal use temps range in the 50-60s, and heavy use on 70s, and only taxing it to 100% cause it to reach 80s.

 

Well I mean, the laptop is basically new and I saw no need to clean anything...

 

Oh I understand, but even after a week of use, depending on where you use it etc you can have dust build up It's best to make sure the issue is not something simple like dust. If it is indeed paste, you should have been noted. Although the majority of machines work without issues, there are some that the paste is not done the same and might be sitting a bit off, or pasted wrongly. In such case, repaste is necessary so you have optimum performance and can enjoy without any bumps in performance

If your machine runs cool, and at 99% utilization and you have performance hits? It's most likely the game itself or drivers. At which point, we have to poke nVidia or the game dev to update!

 

So I sent the laptop back to the store for check up. If they found that it is indeed a pasting problem, is it worth it to fix it by myself? Because I will lose warranty and I've heard that the GTX780m is coming out in 2-3 months. The thing is that I got this laptop for $1400, I don't know if I should just stick with it or just pay like 1000 more for the new gen.

 

$1400 dlrs is a very good price for such a machine. 780m will most likely bring 15% performance improvement in general on stock. You shouldn't loose warranty due to repasting, and your shop and even MSI warranty should cover components heating too much.

I am not sure paying 70% additional cost is worth it for 15 to 20% upgrade right now, that's up to you to decide. Repasting is fairly easy, but I understand it can be quite overwhelming if it's your first time or if you don't have any experience. Luckily users here or in youtube etc you can find tutorials on how to repaste and learn it too Be sure to confirm with your reseller and with MSI that there won't be a problem with repasting. If they say there will be, send it in for repaste and that they test it to have acceptable temperatures.

Whatever you choose, we will help you out

 

Yes stay with your current notebook (or it's replacement) like ryzeki advised you. "Upgrading" to a 780m from a 680m is not worth the price premium..you can sell those 2 mSata SSDs and get something better (like 2 Mushkin Enhanced mSata 128GB). The difference will be noticed.
We are a comunity here on NBR so help is always given to those who ask for it

 

So I got the laptop back. It's running a little bit cooler at 90 degrees C instead of 93.... So I guess I will fix the problem myself, like pasting the GPU?

 

Thanks, So I got the laptop back. It's running a little bit cooler at 90 degrees C instead of 93.... So what would you suggest doing? Get a cooling pad? But the laptop is already huge =.=

 

Cooling pad works, if you don't move the laptop much you can even use it with the botton cover off, just be sure to have no metals touching the computer innards.

Repasting is fairly easy. I am more than used to it after years of doing so, and right now I can do it within 5 mins. If you are up for it, you can find a wealth of information available as well as suggestions, videos and support from us to help you through

I suggest you buy a tube of thermal paste (MX-4, IC diamond 24 or what you prefer of high performance paste) with cleaning kit. It shouldn't run expensive at all. The trick is to put just the right amount of paste. Too little or too much cause increased temps. I suspect your current machine came with a tad bit too much.

 

A chill pad may help but that's still awfully warm...

 

Would thermal repasting get it down to say 80 degrees?

 

I know, I don't know what they did but they said that 95 degrees under load is perfectly normal. I don't know where that came from. And it's not after I nag them when they did take it in. Would you say it's worth keeping and fixing it (whatever that I have to do) or just be done with it?

 

I also looked at the newer A10 5750m, I wonder if you could shine some light for me. Like the processing power it can output compared to the i7 series? Because gaming is not the only thing I do.

 

Wow, no 95 C is pushing your luck. Honestly it's a good system and I think you'll be happy with it if you keep it, so long as you can get those temps down; otherwise they're liable to cause throttling, and then you won't be as happy.

They have a good microarchitecture, but the only advantage to them at the moment is their iGPU compared to Ivy Bridge. They're great for a budget oriented system, but beyond that, Intel has them beat in sheer processing power, and with Haswell on the way, the iGPU crown may go to Intel pretty soon.

 

Yes, it should be able to bring temps down to 80s range. My very initial temps reached 90 degrees with furmark, but that's designed to basically kill GPUs. After repasting, and specially in games, I have between 70 and 80C temps. Only demanding games reach 80.

Normally, GPUs were designed for up to 95 degrees (previous nvidia models, notoriously the 92b core GTX8000/900 and 200m series) and their downlclock temp was 105 degrees. I actually had one particular laptop with normal 97 degrees temp while gaming.

But you see, such temps were quite common with that specific laptop and specific GPU. this GPU is designed and tested to downclock at 93 degrees, and the vast majority of users who have repasted or have had specific paste jobs by resellers, tend to have, at the most, temps on the 80s range. It is normal to see 80, 85 degrees when playing demanding games, but 90s range is definitely on the limit and subject to thermal throttling. I say it's worth repasting for it is a very powerful machine that when properly cooled, has enough headroom even to overclock (mine is quite overclocked with good temps).

AMD's current CPUs (or APUs, as they are) are not designed for high end power or processing. They are very good and affordable computing solutions, but they are even made with power envelopes on the 35w side, considerably less than even the base core i7 models. their performance is not directly comparable, as Core i7 processors are much powerful, but likewise, more expensive.

I see you are eyeing the GX series. They are great budget gaming machines. I do recommend them if you have a very tight budget as they do offer awesome gaming performance at such price, but what you currently have has much more potential, since it's a more balanced product.

I would advise to repaste and check temps. If you are too worried about opening it up etc, it is still demonstrable that the GPU is not working as intended since it throttles. You can download monitoring software to prve your point.

Personally I would just repaste and ensure the best temp I have. I am incredibly happy with my machine, temps and performance.

 

Since I'm already running a GTX680m, I don't care about the GPU or iGPU that comes with the processor. I just want to get the temp down lol. Which thermal compound do you recommend for repasting?

 

I mean at my price point, I can only look at the GX series but I never liked the AMD CPUs as they tend to under-perform compared to Intel ones. All I need to do is sort out this temp problem otherwise I think I got the bang for the buck. Would you mind direct me to a detailed walk-through of how to repaste laptop GPUs? Also if you don't mind, I would like to hear your advise on which thermal paste you think is the best. I am going to do this over the weekend (the warranty sticker is alraedy been broke by the memory express people so I couldn't care less now)

 

If the warranty sticker is broken by them, then you should be fine. Yeah at pricepoint the GX60/70 might be the closest but in terms of performance, the I7+680m is more powerful for most games.

Sure I will help you find a walkthrough or otherwise make one myself to ilustrate how to repaste the GPU. I have been using IC 24 Diamond for a while now, and it has worked great. I have some industrial grease removers and contact cleaners from my line of work, which I use to remove the paste, but I also have some of the arctic clean kit, which comes with a paste remover and surface purifier. You can buy these from several sites including amazon, ebay etc.

The main issue is the GPU right? For example, there are many videos like this IC Diamond 7 Carat vs Arctic Silver 5 MSI GT780 part 1 - YouTube which you can use to dissasemble the laptop. If you turn around the heatsink you will notice the GPU heatsink has thermal pads that reach the memory banks and other parts. those need to be properly aligned but dont worry as the pads are sticky. the core itself is where you will repaste which is in direct contact with the two copper bars. In the video they do not show the cleaning but they do show repasting and you can get an idea of the amount.

Anyways this is just to give you an idea so far. It's a fairly simple procedure. The amount of pace has to be smallish. you will apply a bit at the center, a very small drop (often call pea shaped method) and then you will align back the heatsink, press it firmly and screw back in all. the pressure will spread the paste.

 

Here is another thing, I tested the turbo fan just today (never tried that before) and with ultra settings in BF3 I'm getting 78-82 degrees C in both campaign and multiplayer. The trade off is the loudness of the fan...

 

Excellent guide ryzeki
You can also use isopropyl alchool (not simple alchool) and with a piece of soft cloth you don't need, wet it a bit but not soak it, and start passing it to the gpu core and around it. Turbofan should be a last resort since it's really loud. Once you've pasted don't screw it much tight. Once you feel that the screwdriver turns no more stop.
For 1400$ that notebook it's a steal. If you want to sell it just whistle hahaha no I'm kidding
I used a the pea method when I installed the 7970m in my ex notebook. Temps never went higher than 75 degree. I used Prolimatech PK-3 thermal paste. I also replaced the thermal pads with Phobya XT ones.

 

Turbo fan works but I am surprised at the huge impact it seems to have in temps. In my machine I do not require to use turbofan to have the same temps you are having. If turbo fan does not bother you, it is a real alternative but I do suggest strongly to repaste.

Thank you felix3650! I am so busy these days due to work that I hardly have the time. I was looking for some hardware in my old box and I found several thermal pastes including AS5 and some IC7 and 24 haha, brought back memories

There are some very good videos out there, even for non GT70 laptops, that show how to repaste, amount to use etc. It's one of those practices that makes you feel closer to your machine haha.

 

Yea the price itself made me disregard any of the negatives like size an weight. I will dig into repasting and keep you guys updated

 

I've been fairly busy as well. I don't particularly like the sound of the turbo fan. It's even louder than my desktop system so I will probably go get the thermal compound and other necessary components tomorrow. I will keep you guys updated on how things goes

A side note, when I tried to open the case today, the rubber part on the left deformed and now it's got this crack there...heartbroken. Will upload a photo later to see if it's fixable or not. Right I'm thinking of using clamp and super glue lol

 

It looks like I've already been beaten to the compound question. ICD is great and generally the preferred compound these days. The Gelid GC Extreme and Antec Formula 7 compounds are pretty good as well.