Presenting the All-New Intel 10th Gen MSI "GE66"!

New for 2020.....the MSI GE66 10th Gen (re-designed):

 

They have a few models for pre-order on Newegg. Looks like the end of this month they’ll be released. Definitely one of the best IO options of any laptop I’ve seen in a long while. Curious why it comes with a 280w power brick though. Seems overkill for max-q GPU laptop.

 

This looks so GOOD!

 

Ge series are not Max-Q GPU

 

It's Max-P.

 

Do any of these new MSI models have a Gsync screen?
GE66 looks great besides the obnoxious light bar on the front.

 

We should be able to turn that light bar off. I forgot that the MAG had it since I shut that obnoxious light off long ago.

 

The light bar was cute on my GT76 for.... 5 minutes? Then it went dark forever.

 

Is the MSI website wrong? It says NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2080 With Max-Q Design, 8GB GDDR6.

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GE66-Raider-10SX/Specification

 

They just notified us today saying GE66 2080 Super is Max-Q not Max-P. This is third time we have to correct it.

GE75 RTX 2080 Super is Max-P.

 

I've also just noticed that the PSU is 230W on the 2080 super max-Q version, where it is 280W for the 2070 super. We'll probably start seeing people flashing GE75's 2080 Super Max-P's vbios onto GE66's Max-Q and also purchase 280W PSU to replace the 230W in the future.

Edit: Oh wait is the GE66 coming with 2080 super Max-Q or just 2080 Max-Q? Seems like all that hype will go away if it's just a Max-Q

By the way the GS66 has a 2080 super Max-Q. I think the GE66 should also get the Super version of the Max-Q, probably typo from MSI on the product page.

This time the model name 10SGS's 2nd S seems to stand for Super.

 

Is it confirmed the GE66 uses the RTX 2070 super Max P and not last years regular RTX?
When I go configure a laptop on your site it just say RTX 2070 and not Super, just trying to clear up some confusion

Your link shows it’s a 2070 super.....

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GE66-Raider-10SX/Specification

.....but it doesn’t say super on your site , is the GE66 on your site the GE66 10SFS model you linked or a different model number?
Thanks

 

The GE66 is using Super GPUs on the 10SGS (RTX 2080 Super Max-Q) and the 10SFS (RTX 2070 Super).

Only the 10SF has a regular RTX 2070.

Gentech doesn't have the 10SFS listed yet.

 

You're my hero for the day. I was wondering why they were bothering using a 280w psu with a 2080 max-q. Noooow it looks like a worth while buy.

 

What's the difference with the 2080 super vs non super max q? 10 more watts?

 

Here are the Super variants (not specific to MSI, taken from notebookcheck.net):


With RT stuff aside between an RTX 2080 and RTX Super is +128 CUDA and faster (binned) RAM.

 

I read that the mobile 2080 super will not be getting the 16gbps gddr6 unlike desktop but rather get the 1.25 power saving gddr6 like the rest.

 

I've tried flashing Max-p vbioses onto Max-q cards and it just does not work. Nvidia has some safeguard in place that prevents this. The cards will be locked into safe mode at 1350mhz.

Only very specific vbioses somewhat work and even then they dont don't have the intended result.

 

Yeah I just read that its unfortunate, hopefully they're still all Samsung as mine from last year did +1000 on afterburner no probs.

I guess the goal is if they can shave off a little power from the RAM it can go towards the GPU instead which is a good thing.

 

Not for the 180-200w variants which pretty much already hit overclocked desktop performance.

 

Well I have a 2080 Super and even at +1300-1400 (18300) it starts to become negligible even on benchmarks, +1000 becomes the normal sweet spot for regular use.



Where as regular laptops will be pressed for power limits etc.. of course theres the 180-200W variants like you mentioned but yeah its still unfortunate about the RAM still being the 14Gbps versions. Even if it becomes negligible it is nice to see the higher numbers and it made the +128CUDA disappoint a bit more bearable.

 

Based on a 2080 vs 2080 super comparison I read the 2080 super benefits more from having a higher clock speed than a 2080.

https://babeltechreviews.com/the-rt...wdown-highlighting-the-architectural-changes/

I quote:
Lowering the SUPER’s memory clocks drastically dropped the minimum frame rates although we ran the benchmark many times with the same results. One may perhaps speculate that the RTX 2080 SUPER needs a bit more core speed and higher memory clocks to take full advantage of its extra two SMs and the larger cache.

 

Just got some bad news all around for 10th gen Intel parts.

They can no longer be undervolted as they will come with the plundervolt mitigation by dafault.

It's just a great big F you from Intel.

 

That’ll make reviewing easier lol.

Eluktronics is hoping to have some UV capability in their BIOS. The biggest issue is that we don’t know how far these can be pushed so the limit might be small to prevent people bricking their machine.

 

Let me know if they can get it working. I heard that its a hard lock so even if you set it in the bios it will not work.

 

That’s pretty messed up , so the one thing we can do to make our CPU’s run cooler they take away?
Never heard of undervolting bricking a laptop, if you were a little too aggressive using XTU or TS the worst you would get is a hard lock but your settings would just go back to default.
Wonder why they would do this? It’s a really stupid move if true and sort of gives me second thoughts about getting a new laptop.

 

As I stated in my post, its to mitigate the plundervolt vulnerability.

Basically the vulnerability attacks SGX (which nobody uses) by undervolting.

 

So are we going to be stuck with GS66 and GE66 laptops with CPU's running at a constant 90 degrees if we cant undervolt?

 

9th gen 8 cores ran at those temperatures even after undervolting. LM was the only way to stop thermal throttling.

 

Im referring specifically to the 10750H

 

It will without an undervolt

 

I know it will I own two of the 9750H processors in laptops. Thats what my concern is, so this is a no go before we even get started? I have been looking forward for the GE66 for months. There is no workaround this?

This is bios related though, there should be a workaround by MSI, these are gaming laptops that need to be able to control temperatures, its really as simple as that.

 

I've already thought of a way to reduce core voltage without undervolting.

In msi's hidden bios, you can change the AC/DC loadline which basically changes the range and slope between the minimum and maximum voltage that is delivered to the cpu.

I don't know the exact values to set yet but I've played around with it before and it is able to change the voltage similar to what you get after an undervolt.

There is a drawback however. By reducing the voltage range you will get lower maximum voltage but higher minimum voltage.

For example, say at stock the voltage range is 0.6v to 1.4v, after reducing the range you'll get a range of 0.8 to 1.2v. So at max load you'll get a 200mv undervolt but at idle you'll get a 200mv overvolt.

This is just an example BTW, the values here are by no means correct.

 

I doubt MSI would add something that would increase the likely hood of there machines burning up because of plundervolt. This needs to be brought up to MSI. Intel does not require manufactures to add plundervolt to there bios's right? This isnt a hardware feature on intel chips, its bios related. Its like why would any of us even care about 300 Hz screens and super cards if we cant even keep the machine steady in the first place with temperatures. Were not in the early stages of the creation of gaming laptops here, its been 20 years of progress. Has the world gone completely insane!

 

No its not bios related. The bios just contains cpu microcode that mitigates vulnerabilities.

I suggest you take a glance though what plundervolt is https://plundervolt.com/

Essentially, it attacks SGX by undervolting.
"Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX) is a set of security-related instruction codes that are built into modern Intel CPUs."

 

So are you saying all new intel processors are made in a way that its impossible to undervolt them or is it up to the OEMs that use there product. Screwball hackers honestly worthless lives, why do people not have anything better to do.

 

They can be undervolted, but the bios restricts you from doing so.

And while oems can opt to make a bios that doesn't include the mitigation I'm not sure whether Intel will let them or they would even want to. They just include it as part of a better safe than sorry measure so protect themselves from being sued.

 

Yes that may be the case but when there product is being used in a gaming laptop its a critical feature of a gaming laptop to keep the thing from bricking itself from heat or literally causing a fire. Intel should not be selling these to gaming machine manufacturers then if its a given they will not have a critical function that is required of a gaming laptop. If there going to take responsibility by requiring that bios's have plundervolt then they should take the next step and not sell to OEM's that require the feature that is being removed. Either that or make a better damn CPU that does not get so ungodly hot. This is ridiculous we have to have this discussion.

WTH are they doing over there at intel. Why is there no gaming processors designed for gaming machines. Why is there vulnerabilities in there product. Why are these CPU's such crap in the first place running literally at 100 Celsius. Why is the world round and the grass green. No one knows these questions especially at intel.

 

If it makes them money, then they will sell it.

And there ARE gaming processors, you're looking at it. The H series is for gaming/productivity and the U series is for business/light users.

It is ridiculous, its hot, its expensive, its Intel®

 

In no way would I call these gaming processors if we cant even undervolt but I digress.

 

There’s so many great laptops coming out and all with intel chips that are getting beat by Ryzen while pulling less than half the wattage.

This will be a strange year for laptop reviews.

 

I really hope to see more laptops start using the AMD 4900HS in laptops,

 

8th and 9th gen values:

Auto and offset modes: Vcore= vCPU + (ACLL * I) - (LLC * I) + vOffset
VID=vCPU + (ACLL * dI) - (DCLL * I)

dI=d1-d0 (don't ask because I do not know)

I=Current
LLC=Loadline Calibration (mOhms)

Vcore2 (laptops only, aka "fixed")=Override voltage=rewrites vCPU value as override voltage.

Desktop mainboards: Vcore (fixed mode)=vTarget - (LLC * I);
vTarget=bios voltage, LLC=Loadline Calibration mOhms (usually a percentage of Max_ACLL_SKU). VID and AC Loadline values are ignored for vcore here.

vCPU=base VID at x/y core/cache ratio up to max turbo (to find: AC Loadline=0.01 mOhms, DC Loadline=0.01 mOhms) + Thermal Velocity Boost voltage optimizations offset (-1.5mv / -1C @ highest turbo, disabled at x40/x39); e.g. 0C is -150mv lower than 100C. If TVB voltage options is disabled, vCPU will be as 100C.

(tl;dr: vCPU=VID @ ACLL:0.01 mOhms, DCLL:0.01 mOhms)

TVB Ratio Clipping=Don't know, don't care.

ACLL=AC Loadline in milliohms
DCLL=DC Loadline in milliohms

LLC=Loadline Calibration in milliohms, also known as vdroop slope (LLC can not be changed, this is usually hardwired to "MAX_ACLL_SKU"); On S processors this is 1.6 mOhms (8 core), 2.1 mOhms (4 and 6 core).

vOffset=offset voltage

I have no idea what the 10th gen values are.

 

Does anyone know....is the 240hz screen the same screen as the 240 one in the GE65?

 

4 finger salute still works on the 10980HK. However "Overclocking feature" is disabled by default.

https://imgur.com/a/I3Em4Ul

 

So the GE66 is still straight up Optimus, or is that yet to be publicly confirmed?

 

I'm on a discord chat with the guy who owns that laptop.
-140mv undervolt worked after overclocking controls were re-enabled in the BIOS.

-140mv, 10980HK:
70W package power, 76C

0mv:
91W package power, 93C.

 

Ask about graphics switching.

 

ive been in this chat for an hour and its exhausting. He's not good with tweaking or even finding things in windows so i have to do stuff step by step and its draining enough.
I want to go play videogames :/

 

What channel are you in, or is it a private chat?

I'd tag in if I could.