Overclocking 7700HQ and GTX1070

Hello,

I have a MSI GT72VR-7RE, and i need know if there is any possibility to do overclock the cpu and gpu of my pc.

Even if not possible to oc the cpu, is possible activate all the 4 cores at 3.8Ghz?
Another thing that is possible is overclocking the gpu with MSI AfterBurner through the Graphic(Curve between frequency and voltage) but i not understand anything of that curve...also i dont know what values i can overclock the gpu even the core clock or memory clock.

Please any help will be grateful, thanks.

@Mr. Fox

 

7700HQ is hard-locked. Nothing you can do there AFAIK.

 

Thanks for your response, and about the gpu?

 

There's a little room for you to overclock. Your GPU is Nvidia GTX 1070, right?

 

Hi Kevin@GenTechPC

Yes, the problem is how to start test some clocks to understand how much i can go and at minimal voltage possible.

 

It is not difficult at all, but if you have never done it before it is good to know where to start. There is a lot of stuff in this community, other communities and YouTube. Finding good information is work, too.

Maybe this will help. Start with the first video by JayzTwoCents.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+overclock+gpu+with+msi+afterburner

The thing you need to understand about Pascal GPUs is they begin to "throttle" around 45-50°C and unless you keep them abnormally cold the overclocking gradually undoes itself as the temperatures go up. We are not talking about overheating, just lousy product engineering. You need to know that because the clock speed you set the core to run at might not be what it actually does once the GPU boosts into 3D clock mode for a few minutes. It will be something less than what you set as soon as the GPU reaches normal operating temperature.

 

Till now i have a max voltage of 0.8620V with a limit of 1900Mhz on curve graph of MSI AfterBurner.

From what i read is that i cant go above 2.2GHz because the max limit(that i not remember now the value) of voltage.

My question is, should i increase the voltage to get at least 2GHz of core clock and clock memory? And if i only edit the curve this also edit the memory clock?

Many thanks for the response Mr. Fox

 

You cannot increase voltage or power limits with stock notebook vBIOS. All you can do is adjust clocks and manipulate the voltage curve within the limits. With Pascal, this applies to most desktop GPUs as well. And, with Pascal you cannot apply a modded vBIOS except with a hardware programmer.

 

Yes is that, i put a limit of 0.8620V max, at least when im playing gpu-z show this max value.

But for example, im able to put on curve 0.8620/2000 ? Will be the system stable? And after this, should add memory clock?

 

You will have to experiment to find what is stable. Yes, overclock the memory as well. Each GPU will have some variance based on its bin quality and what its vBIOS behavior allows. For overclocking (which I do a lot of) the voltage curve thing is absolutely worthless. No need to use it. It will provide no benefit for overclocking. It primarily useful for underclocking and undervolting machines that have poor cooling systems and struggle with overheating at stock clocks.

Look at overclocked benchmarks run by others with your same machine. You should be able to be close to their levels of overclocking or even higher if they are conservative. If you take the overclock too far the machine will be unstable. Start small and gradually work your way up until it becomes unstable or getting too hot, then back down to the highest stable overclock. Do this with core or memory first. Once you figure out the maximum stable overclock on one, then repeat with the other.

You will have to play with the offset and use GPU-Z to find out how much the offset increases the core and memory clocks. You can click on the little question mark on the GPU-Z Graphics Card tab and open a small rendering window to load the GPU, then click over to the Sensors tab to observe the actual clock speeds. Like this...

 

Oh nice, its like a bench inside the gpu-z program

But using the curve not allow me to put a limit of voltage to get better temperatures even with a high core/memory clock?

 

No, not really. Overclocking requires more voltage, and since we can do absolutely nothing to increase the available voltage, the set limit will cap the core overclocking capacity. The memory voltage cannot be manipulated at all. In other words, if you limit your GPU core voltage, your overclock will likewise be limited and performance will be diminished. The voltage limit is already too low for any kind of extra fancy overclocking.

 

Im saying this because i already use a undervolt on cpu of -150mV and the system is stable since i cant do oc in this cpu.

My interest is getting the high frequency possible on core/memory clock with the lowest voltage

 

So, what you suggest that i do since on msi program i not have control on voltage gpu(only limit with curve).

Just increase memory and core clock till crash or bsod happens?

 

The CPU is different because stock Intel voltage is already way too high for most CPUs. You can undervolt a lot for stock, or overclock quite a bit using stock voltage. You overvolt the CPU when stock voltage is not enough for the overclocking you are looking to achieve. Pascal GPUs are sort of the opposite and you cannot overvolt them. The voltage cannot be raised on the core, and voltage cannot be changed up or down on the memory, so your clock speeds are limited by limited voltage. You can use the voltage curve table to reduce core voltage, and doing so will automatically reduce GPU core clocks even if you do not change the offset to a negative value.

Yes. Using the voltage curve thing will allow you to lower the voltage for a cooler GPU running lower core clocks, but you cannot increase the voltage. You can use MSI Afterburner, EVGA Precision XOC, or ASUS GPU Tweak. All three programs have essentially the same features in this regard. NVIDIA Inspector also works for GPU overclocking.

 

"This is important, because even when you are trying to apply a higher overclock, it may downclock for any number of reasons, from heat to lack of voltage. As stated above, NVIDIA has locked the GTX 1070 voltage to 1.093v. It does not matter what brand you have, you cannot exceed this. That means your maximum overclock cannot surpass 2.2GHz because of how Boost 3.0 works and voltage limitations. Most cards will not exceed 2050MHz, as that's the average number I've come across browsing the Web."

This is for desktops and laptops or only for desktops?

 

@Mr. Fox

So, i will test my max core clock and memory clock....

But for example, if i only get 5fps gained overclocking the gpu in games and my gpu goes to 80ºC, what is the best:

Overcloking the gpu and win a 5-10% fps but with high temperatures that perhaps can increase non-stability and non-performance
Or
Undervolting the gpu with the MSI program curve and get cool temps and probably better performance(breaks, stability...)

 

The bolded part applies to all Pascal GPUs, both mobile and desktop. The part that is not bolded varies by GPU/vBIOS. It varies more among desktops because a 1070 or 1080 reference card is different than a 1070 or 1080 enthusiast card, and there is more variance among the enthusiast cards by brand, model and price. Some are factory overclocked, some are not. If all were reference cards they would all have the same default (reference spec) core and memory clocks and voltage like mobile.

In my personal opinion, overclocking GPUs should be mostly reserved for competitive benching. For doing something ordinary like playing games doesn't really provide much benefit unless the parts you are overclocking are already too weak to produce good results at stock clocks. If the parts are too weak, then it's time for an upgrade. You would be better off leaving the GPU stock and adjusting the game quality settings so the framerate is satisfying and enjoy playing your games. You are right on target about the increased temperatures not being a good trade-off for only marginally higher framerates, as the higher temperatures in turn degrade performance (thermal throttling) and shorten the lifespan of the GPU.

 

My system is stable with this settings and on gpu-z program are the core/memory clock max values....

Now i will try limit the voltage to see how much i can go on clock settings...my graphic had a max value of 79ºC

 

Just wanted to chime in a bit here.

The stock voltage actually seems to be more or less "correct" for most of the Intel BGA chips, actually. If you really want to compare a desktop 7700K and a laptop 7820HK for instance at the exact same mhz, my sample of the 7820HK has a stock VID of 1.08v at 4.2 ghz. This seems to be pretty much not too far away from par for desktop 7700K chips as well, so this matches up (I haven't seen a 7700K that can run below 1.0v at 4.2 ghz). The 3.4 ghz HQ chips, well, that's hard to say but from my experience, I suspect the same thing is happening as I will explain below:

I think the issue with undervolting is not because the chips are overvolted from Intel directly. I believe cancer Bioses and firmware are to blame for what we are seeing here.

At this exact moment I'm writing this, I'm currently running 8 thread NON AVX NON FMA3 prime 95, small FFT, with a target VID of 1.0796v at 4.2 ghz. This is the actual VID going to the CPU itself (e.g. very close to the same vcore), BEFORE VDROOP IS FACTORED IN. There is vdroop on these systems, however VERY few laptops have a VCORE SENSOR. Without a vcore sensor, all you can see is the target voltage (which is usually represented by VID), before vdroop is applied for the direct vcore going to the CPU.

VID is the voltage "target", which can be what the CPU actually is requesting, or what the CPU "thinks" it's getting. However VID is NOT always the actual voltage target going to the CPU at all times; this value can be extremely inaccurate and sometimes just way in outer space.

Laptops also do not have access to a critical desktop setting called "Loadline Calibration." Loadline calibration works on the vcore signal (not on VID) to adjust the vcore droop at load, by making it as close to idle or actual "set" VID as possible (if VID is equal to the original vcore manual override setting). So you're going to have vdroop without LLC. Vdroop kills overclocks as everyone well knows from desktops, so a reasonable amount of LLC is needed so the CPU can have healthy vcore at full load.

There is another factor at play here however:
The "mysterious" setting called "AC DC Loadline".

Laptops (proably most if not all) have to use this setting, and it's always hidden from the user. And it's always set to the "Auto" setting. And Auto basically does whatever it wants, up to the Intel "reference" setting for the chipset. For Z370 (8700K), this is 2.10 mOhms (the setting used by Auto). Auto may or may not change the current value up to the reference setting (I'm not an engineer).

However Raja @ Asus said that AC DC loadline works on the VID signal rather than the VCORE signal. Raising this value adjusts the VID so the VID rises based on CPU load.

However this setting seems to do very bizarre things when CPU voltage is set to adaptive vcore:
1) Current VID may be reported totally and completely wrong (VID reported as 1.12v, power consumption and temps however are higher than a manual vcore override of 1.182v, reporting a VID of 1.18v)
2) manual override set voltage combined with "Auto" AC DC loadline causing EXTREMELY high power consumption and very high temps
3) VID fluctuating wildly (by as much as 120mv (!!)) when the system is idle or lightly idle, when using AC DC loadline=Auto, but power draw not changing whatsoever.

The only way to know true current VID without misreporting or errors is to set IA AC DC loadline to 1 (or the lowest non zero value), which is also mentioned in the official Asus desktop guide for Kaby Lake overclocking, by Raja @ Asus.

My 7820HK (at least with 100% fan speed, and reporting temps 64/62/64/62) is stable with Adaptive vcore, IA AC DC loadline of 1, with VID Showing up as 1.080-1.1v at idle and 1.0796v during non AVX non FMA3 prime95. THIS IS NOT AVX STABLE; IA AC DC loadline would have to be raised up a bit (up to 25) for that, or a positive offset has to be used for that.

At 4.5 ghz, with IA AD DC loadline=1 again, adaptive vcore, the VID is still 1.0875v at idle! Attempting to prime with AVX/FMA3 disabled causes an INSTANT BSOD--instantly. This VID is clearly too low, as vdroop still rears its ugly head. Using a +100mv offset fixes this, which raises the VID to 1.179v.

Using IA AC DC loadline=Auto at the same settings (4.5 ghz) is stable but:1) higher power consumption, 2) VID jumps randomly (at idle) between 1.08-1.21v (!), prime non AVX/non FMA3=1.12v. (but misreported: VID lower, but temps are HIGHER than 1182mv (override), AC DC loadline=1, with VID showing up as 1.18v (reported accurately).


The reason undervolting works is because of the "reverse" vdroop compensation from the VID Boosting of AC DC loadline=Auto. Since this "boost" is pushing vcore past what is even needed for stability, thus you can undervolt.

Obviously at 3.4 ghz, there is a lot less vdroop (which still can't be measured).

Here's an example from @Arestavo 's 7820HK, so you guys can see exactly what's going on with MSI Vid boost and how it was causing him BSOD's:

His VID was showing up with **1.325v** stock at 4.2 ghz. The VID is high because his chip is on the weak end, but it should NOT be THIS high. The IA AC DC loadline=Auto is causing this boost. He was also BSOD'ing due to overheating as well before teh undervolt.

when he undervolted by -100mv, he was STILL spiking up to 1.274v (though during prime it was 1.152v at load, but this voltage is still inaccurate due to how the "Auto" IA AC DC Loadline messes up the readings.

I had to do some work with him. I had him override the voltage to 1175mv, and set the IA AC DC from auto to 25 (0.25 mOhms) manually. This made a MASSIVE difference, far more than what undervolting did: Even though the max VID still showed as 1.245v, notice the temps dropped MASSIVELY:


Down from 85C on hottest core to 75C on hottest core.
EVEN THOUGH THE VID in the screenshot, with prime active, was HIGHER! 1.198v (with AC DC loadline=25 + manual 1175mv override), compared to "Adaptive" voltage -100mv, with AC DC loadline=Auto (85C max temp, 1.152v during prime).

it's clear, in the quoted text (before the screenshot) where he was using adaptive vcore and Auto AC DC loadline, this VID was being completely misreported and was MUCH higher than 1.152v.


Sorry for the wall of text.

tl;dr:

 

I give up on doing oc in laptop GTX1070, even with max core clock at 2113.5Mhz and a max memory clock at 2237.6 MHz even with a VDDC limited at 1.0120V my temperature of GPU goes to 79ºC......

I think that should go back to my stock clock where the boost core clock goes to 1900Mhz and memory clock goes to 2000Mhz with a max VDDC of 0.862V...Max temperatures are about 72ºC

@Mr. Fox Many thanks for your help in this topic.
@Falkentyne I see that you have a GTX1070, can you say something about my case?

 

Mine is TDP modded to 185W, so whatever I say can't apply to your system.

 

But you never did tests with the vbios locked that comes from factory?

 

Using override voltage (static) is always better than adaptive. Some people find adaptive is easier, but as is often the case, easier is not always better. Usually, the opposite is true.

@Prema BIOS has many voltage and power settings settings that most laptops do not have, and they work. It's a shame stock BIOS on all notebooks is so lame. There are many settings they could benefit from having access to, but the OEM/ODM don't care how well (or poorly) their products work. They just want to slop them out the door and make room for their next gimmick. And, since their broken crap flies off the shelves and gets gobbled up by people that have no idea what they are buying, they have no incentive to care, no repercussions for selling broken garbage. Until they are held accountable for selling trash and start losing money on stagnant stock that nobody wants to own we can expect more of the same, year after year.

 

I only used overclocks of +225/300 on the stock vBios.
I switched to the .8a vBios because since the maximum voltage it would use was 0.881v (it wouldn't use any clockspeed on the curve at higher than 0.881v), it tended to have more stable frametimes than the regular vBios, because you would just get TDP throttled more anyway. Wasn't much of a benchmark difference.

After modding, the 8a vbios was far too limited at 150W TDP so I had to go back to the original vbios and TDP mod that.

 

.8A was that vbios from a chinese guy to limit the clock right? How i can do the same on my gtx 1070 with that tdp mode?

 

I don't understand your question at all.

Are you using a TDP mod or are you not using a TDP mod? What exactly are you asking?
The "8A" Vbios limits maximum GPU voltage to 0.881v (not the clock, the voltage), due to a hardware flaw in some 2016 version GTX 1070 MXM cards, causing voltage steps >1.013v and higher to be unstable and crash. This effectively disables boost 2 clocks because the card can never reach the higher voltage steps. Some people with fully working cards found visually better, consistent performance using it, because the clocks wouldn't repeatedly jump back and forth as much from TDP limits.

 

I not have tdp mod, im asking how i can do that

 

Read the thread in the Clevo section please.

 

Mobile Pascal TDP Tweaker v1.1.0.0 Right?

 

Yes it's a hardware mod. You need to buy components for it and you need to make sure the flasher can read your vbios also first. I suggest you take your time and read that thread.

 

@Mr. Fox , @Falkentyne

I think that will stay with these stats, -150mv on cpu and 0.860V on GPU

 

On msi foruns there is a section where we can get a unlocked Bios/Vbios for a little donation....what kind of things will be unlocked? Worth get that unlocked Bios?

 

If you download the Bios from the MSI website, then look for AMIBCP (APTIO 5) and open it, that will be all the options that will be unlocked. some may not work, or have chipset restrictions (you may not have RAM timing access or DDR Voltage, etc).

*EDIT*
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES PERIOD DO YOU EVER, EVER TRY TO FORCE FLASH AN APTIO CAPSULE YOU OPENED OR MODDED FROM THE BIOS WEBSITE, EVER (you have to dump your existing Bios aptio capsule and edit that and flash that, but that requires the Bios Lock setting to be disabled (go look at Sirgeorge's old post in the GT73VR thread for more info on that). Or just....pay svet for 100% safe unlocking.

 

Go look at Mr Fox's old MSI 16L13 unlocked Bios video over on youtube. Most of the options you see there will be on most of the other MSI laptops, with some differences in menus and locations of some settings. Some things may not appear at all (e.g. RAM timings). Some things may appear but be unselectable (DDR Voltage). Some things may give you a nice black screen and force you to clear CMOS (one person had to RMA after this; he disabled the dGPU through the unlocked Bios, without enabling the iGPU (ggwp). This was before the GT73VR CMOS reset feature was known (power button for 45 second press).

 

Svet replied to me about unlocked Bios/Vbios/EC

 

Wow, so even Svet could not do it.

 

He wanted his 1070 unlocked, and wanted his 7700HQ to run all four cores at 3.8 ghz. Svet can't do this. He needs a hardware programmer for the 1070. And the 7700HQ can't run on all four cores at 3.8 ghz even if you prayed to the Volcano God, because Intel Will Not Allow It It's programmed into the chip, because it's a locked CPU. If you want an overclockable CPU, you need to see if you can RMA the system and buy an HK CPU system. Or a desktop CPU with a Clevo. Svet can easily unlock the Bios menus. Even the user can do that himself by using FPTW64 to dump the APTIO, edit it with AMIBCP, then reflash the unlocked menus with FPTW64 again, if he follows sirgeorge's instructions on how to change the Bios Lock setting to disabled by finding the GUID key and booting to an EFI prompt. (in order for this to not get reverted, secure boot must be disabled).

I know svet unlocks menus on the GT72VR 7RE because he unlocked mine (before I knew how to do it myself, and I STILL recommend people WITHOUT hardware programmers donate to him for unlocking, because there is still a chance you can brick it doing it yourself, even though it has been proven to work).

@OP:
This is exactly why I returned my GT72VR 7RE for a GT73VR.

 

FIRST, I not knew that to unlock GTX1070 i need hardware stuff...
SECOND, Svet told me that intel locked this cpu so its impossible to put all cores at 3.8GHZ....
FINAL, I just asked to Svet if he can send me any kind of unlocked stuff(Bios/EC) even for mesures of the values...and not asked him to send me a bios with all cores at 3.8GHZ...

The awsner was that not possible, even for simple stuff like unlock menus...perhaps you donate a golden bar and me not...but as i see, not have any pre-value donation on msi forum...

 

Another reply from Svet,

@Falkentyne , now you have the reason, but next time think that you not know everything

 

Then unlock it yourself. No need to insult me.
Sirgeorge unlocked his. I unlocked mine. I told you how to do it already.
Hell, another user unlocked his brand new G703VI Asus notebook after I helped him.
Anyone can unlock menus. Whether they work or not is another story. (e.g. G703VI power limit overrides are not working). That's what svet is talking about. The other stuff he is talking about are the unique HW identifiers. Those are not in the main bios user space. If you mess around, your machine ID, windows embedded product keys, secure boot stuff can be erased. And it's difficult to get that stuff back. Some people had their machine product name removed, then it has to read the code from the generic Bios (which says "Please Change Product Name"). Then stuff like Dragon Center features may be missing.

I even told my information to Svet and he said "good job, you are learning".

You want to unlock your menus still? Do it yourself. Find sirgeorge's old post and adapt his instructions for finding the Bios Lock key for your system. I'm done replying to you now.

 

If i donate to Svet its because im not secure in doing that myself. But if you say that most of the features not will work dont worth the the effort....

Im testing the mafia 3 on high settings but without any undervolt in cpu or gpu, and i see the first issue on my Gt72Vr... for 1 or 2 seconds in every 1 hour(1 time appears on that time) the game goes from 75fps to 20fps but then back to normal. The temps are max 80C in cpu and gpu... Never had issues back then...

What programs i should use to check what is hapenning? Is the temp? Is the lack of voltage?

Pc are stock in everything when i do this tests...

Any help of what measures i need do verify this will be very grateful.

Thanks.

 

Tune down the setting to medium and see what happens.

 

Hi Kevin, thanks for your response.

Im with Riva tuner on and when that happens, i discover the problem....is cpu, on that 1/2 seconds, the cpu goes to 800Mhz, then 2700Mhz and then stay on 3400Mhz with temps at that moment of 70C on all cores....wtf....

Any idea Kevin? Power throttle perhaps?

@Phoenix Need your help too

 

Test Cpu with CINEBENCH R15. Post your scores. As well test with Aida64 Follow the guide and post results with pict. You will also find a guide how to use ThrottleStop in the link.

 

Indeed unlocking the Bios for a non overclockable cpu is not worth paying for. The only settings that would be useful are undervolting in Bios and adjusting Ram timing.
As far as the Cpu downclocking are using high performance mode? Cpu min and max set at 100%?

Enviado de meu Pixel 2 usando Tapatalk

 

You mean, energy options? Yes is in high performance. Around 70% on cpu and 99% on GPU all the time.

 

But im not able to find what is the problem even if not is a temp issue?

 

Fans in auto, without any undervolt and with high temperature on room.

 

Doesn't seem to be downclocking, all good. Must just be an issue in certain games.