MSI GT75-056 please help me customize & optomize!

Hello,
This is my first post here...but I've recently read at great length many threads here and it looks like in general, most are extremely helpful to those in need...lets hope I get so lucky...and even perhaps have the notorious @Phoenix swoop in to aid me??

I am interested in buying the MSI GT75-056 (i7 8850H CPU) from either XOTIC PC or HIDevolution, although it looks like HID has a 10% restocking fee if for any reason I want to return it.

Long story short:
I have been doing research about this laptop, ad nauseam, and have discovered through the forums, things I didnt even know I should be considering, so I know I need help.



What I'm thinking about doing with the stock model is:

* Upgrade the ram to 32Gig G-skill Ripjaws RAM (2x16)

*Get (2) Samsung 960 Evos and have my OS installed on one, (because I heard it's faster than HDD).

*Upgrade the HDD to either a 1 OR 2TB seagate OR A 1Tb Samsung 850 evo HDD.

*Order it with a clean install so I don't get lots of bloatware.

-Now, I would like to know what those with much more experience than me think about this setup or if they have any reccomendations or even warnings. I have read on here that resellers can help you optimize your computer and much adieu about Bios etc, but honestly that all goes right over my head.
I'm not really sure what I would need to ask for...it seems all those working with the resellers know them by name and exactly what to ask these guys to do to make their gear "da bomb," and I simply don't.

-Is there anything I need them to tweak?? Or should I just pick my parts and have them send it?


*****
Continuing on with a few concerns I have:

1. Manufacturer lists the nit screen brightness of this panel at 270 nits, when I read 300 nits is average...making this panel supposedly dim?? Any info or opinions on that??

2. Which thermal paste should I choose? IC Diamond or Grizzly Kryonaut? I heard Grizzly needs repasting every 6mos? I'm not confident I can do that...(never have delided a laptop and afraid to f-up).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, *Some history of my current rig if needed*

Right now the rig I have is nearing 7 years old. It is an MSI GT780 DXR and I've got (2) 750 Gig HDD's striped in raid-0 to give me the (1.5) Tb Hard Drive. It's got 16Gigs RAM and an i7 2760QM CPU (I know...I know...some pretty old stuff, but I can still play Rise of the Tomb Raider on low/medium settings LOL!)

Anyway the hardware in this rig has been a trooper and luckily never crashed on me: no dead HDD's, RAM, or CPU burn out after all that time and dear God I've never even delided it once and given it a thermal repaste or anything at all...cuz Im a noob like that who didn't even know about thermal paste till last year.

The right hinge on the screen did break around year 4 of ownership though, and is now stuck open and unable to close, (though its conveniently stuck in an upright normal viewing position).

I've heard MSI hinges are notorious for being too tight and breaking with time and that they still have not addressed this poor build issue after all these years...anyone had hinge issues? I think I'd die if I bust $3k and get a broken hinge again.

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to help me with my new build, and I apologize if I was too long-winded...Im new here and will learn fast.

 

HID only charges a restocking fee if you don't like the laptop.
They don't charge restocking if a part is defective or broken.
I do *NOT* know if they charge restocking if you decide you want to *upgrade* to a higher end laptop and do an RMA exchange. For those you have to email or call them in person and ask. Being polite goes a very long way on things like this.

XotiC PC isn't bad, but their "Copper heatsink upgrade" service is absolutely useless. It lowers the temps by a huge 0C (it might work with very low fan speeds but that's a bit silly; 0C difference with cooler boost fan at 100%). And you can get copper heatsinks of the same quality as theirs for <$20. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0077DH0WE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Just a heads up on that (there was a gigantic thread discussing that years ago).

I bought my own laptop from Xotic PC and I would choose HIDevolution ii i were you.
A heads up however.

No one knows how the LOCKED DOWN chips of the H series Gt75 6 core locked processors will throttle and under what conditions. But the base clock if it exceeds 45W TDP is *2.2 ghz*, which is even lower than the 2.8 ghz of the 7700hQ. Keep that in mind. If you can afford it, I would get the i9 chip, simply because you can avoid all that throttling and the "Advanced" Bios menus (should you choose to manually unlock it in the future when you are more experienced with your laptop can remove all of the other bizarre throttling and voltage boost crap, EXCEPT for the Embedded Controller CPU "overcurrent "current trip limit (no one knows at what point the EC will shut the laptop off).

If you do get the H series chip, no one here can help you with it if you have throttling issues (or what conditions it will throttle) as no one here owns one. What we DO know is that it's going to be a hot mess (there have already been two review videos posted, one from South Africa and one from China, of a GT75 Titan i9, and an Alienware i9...both were hot throttling messes )

 

@Falkentyne

Wow thank you so much for a fast response. May I ask for some more info on your warnings against the 8850H?

1. What do you mean by "locked down chip?"

2. I thought the 8850H had a base score of 2.6?
(I am still shaky on my understanding of TDP, but do recall seeing much info on 45w TDP).

3. I noticed the 7700HQ in the GT73 had a base clock of 2.8 and during my research saw a consensus that the 7700HQ would throttle with the GTX 1080 GPU...which is why I turned to the GT75...when I compared those 2 CPUs (the 7700HQ and the 8850H I did indeed notice the base of the new 8850H was 2.6 (slower than the old 7700HQ with base 2.8) so I emailed Ken at GENTECH PC and asked him why the 8850H has a slower base clock than the 7700HQ...his response was "base clock really doesn't matter, the CPU still outperforms the 7700HQ). And that was it. Can you clarify the info about GDP 45W and how it'd lower me to 2.2? Also I'd assume the 7700HQ would lower even lower than 2.2 if it has the 45w TDP?

4. You recommend the i9, but I see at the bottom you mention 2 people left reviews for it and it's going to be a hot mess? Maybe I misunderstood you, can you clarify?

5. Are all H series chips going to have the 45w TDP issue?

Thank you so much buddy

 

The 8850H is a locked down processor like its predecessor the 7700HQ.
That means:
1) CPU multipliers can NOT be adjusted for overclocking. There is a maximum 1 core, 2 core, 3 core, 4, 5 and 6 core multiplier ratio that is fixed for this SKU. The more threads/cores a program or application uses, the maximum clock will be lowered. For 7700HQ, the base clock (if TDP throttling occurs) is 2.8 ghz, and max 4 core boost clock is 3.4 ghz. Max 1 core boost is 3.8 ghz but no one will ever see that speed (cant make something only use 1 core/1 thread). For 8850H, base clock is 2.2 ghz (instead of 2.8 ghz), and I'm not sure what the maximum 6 core speed is. Max SINGLE THREAD frequency is 4.3 ghz https://ark.intel.com/products/134899/Intel-Core-i7-8850H-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_30-GHz but you will never see that.

The HK processors can have the turbo multipliers adjusted up to the limit of the silicon, until you reach thermal limits, processor limits or the Embedded Controller (EC) says you are using too much current and shuts the laptop off (no one knows what this point is).

For the 8850H, if you exceed the maximum TDP (watts) of 45W for more than 28 seconds, it will throttle down to 2.2 ghz But no one knows under what conditions this will happen yet.

 

@Falkentyne
I just checked and you are right about the base clock of 8850H being 2.2...I thought it was 2.6! A base clock of 2.2 is even worse!

Do you know why this new chip has a base clock of 2.2 when the 7700HQ has a base clock of 2.8? The 8850H is supposed to be better!

The whole reason I wanted to go with GT75 was because GT73 didnt come with the new coffee lake...

Bcause I actually originally wanted the GT73, but I read that it had throttling issues and couldnt handle the GTX 1080 with the 7700HQ...now the 8850H is worse than the 7700HQ?

Can you please clarify on the i9? You recommended it at the beginning of your reply, but then I saw at the bottom you said 2 users had reviewed the i9 and it was a hot throttling mess? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding you...

 

@LapOnMyTop Because it has 45W TDP and 2 more cores.
@Papusan
Can't have 45W TDP at 2.8 ghz.

6 core @ 2.8 ghz on 12 threads will always exceed 45W.

An "8700K" series processor is basically simply a 6 core Kaby Lake on a more refined process. The 8850H is basically an 8700K which failed both 8700K binning and 8950HK binning.

 

Do you know what the TDP is on the 7700HQ by chance? It'll help me understand TDP in relation to both base clocks of the CPUs since the 8850H is 45w bringing base to 2.2.

And I won't keep bugging you after this about the i9...but please...clarify your original comment about recommending it to avoid throttling, then mentioning 2 users reviewed the i9 as a hot throttling mess? Thank you so much!!!

 

@LapOnMyTop

Exact same as 8850H.
45W TDP.
HK processors can exceed their rated TDP. HQ/H processors can not (can only exceed it by 1.5x (50% higher) for 28 seconds!

Hot throttling mess: all 6 core BGA laptops are hot throttling messes. HK and H processors both!
Just the H processors will throttle first anyway !

cooling solutions on the BGAbooks are insufficient to keep these chips cool !

Only Clevo LGA chips with P870 TM/1 (8700K) has good enough cooling to keep the chips running at normal temps.

Alienware 17R5:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/official-alienware-17-r5-owners-lounge.815492/page-2



hot throttling mess.

MSI GT75 Titan core i9:


hot throttling mess (almost throttling).

 

Thanks for that...I guess I'll wait for someone else to weigh in on the i9...
Anyone?????

EDIT: saw your edit to add about the i9...GTEATLY APPRECIATED!!! I will watch video now, but you still recommend the i9 over the 8850H correct?

 

@LapOnMyTop

Read my above link and look at the videos.
NO ONE HERE CAN WEIGH on the i9 because no one on this forum has one!

 

Thanks, I saw your edit and am going to watch the vids now...I just thought you had experience with it because you said "If you can afford it, I would get the i9 chip, simply because you can avoid all that throttling"

All this is really hard for me to absorb, but I'm trying to follow you.

 

I mean, the TDP throttling (the throttling from exceeding the 45W TDP).
The heat, all of them run hot, so you're going to have to get a custom repaste job. That's why I would buy from HIDevolution and request they do the Liquid metal cooling upgrade on the CPU.
Sorry.

There's multiple ways a BGA chip can throttle.

TDP (locked down chips)--45W exceeded--throttles down to BASE clock.
Thermal throttling (exceed 98C)
PECI power limit throttling (Embedded controller limits).

 

I see...the biggest reasons I wanted to go to Xotic PC is because:
1. They dont charge the 10% restock fee if I dont like it and
2. They dont charge tax...
3. They also have a 3% cash discount <3

If I buy from HIDevolution it'll cost me around $300 to return it (if I dont like it) and if I keep it, it'll cost me an extra $300+ in taxes.

I dont mind paying for a custom paste job through Xotic...I was going to have them repaste with either IC Diamond or Grizzly Kryo anyway...but I will look into that link you posted with the info on their copper heat sink or whatever it was called that you didnt recommend. Youve been great help so far btw.

 

Pinging @Phoenix

 

I am in the Gym bro @Papusan I will read this thread in about 5 hours after tanning (part of my job)

 

Just want to add that I do see there *is* a GT73-427 with the i7 7820HK 2.9 base Ghz on special on Xotic PC right now for closeout sale...stock $1899. But it has a GTX 1070.

The GT75 with the i9-8950HK and GTX 1080 starts at stock $3299

Quite the difference in price, but I wanted to throw this one out there (GT73) for opinions as a *possible* alternative in case I feel like I just can't GT75 it.

I had gathered up the gall to drop the $2799 stock +upgrades on the GT75-056 with the i7 8850H, but since its not overclockable and has the issue with 45W tdp bogging it down to 2.2Ghz, I feel like my options are basically the GT73 on special now with the 7820HK 2.9 base or the fricken GT75 i9 8950HK 2.9. Both same base clock...opinions? I'm so grateful for you guys!

 

just fyi, the GT73-427 comes with the Intel® HM175 Express Chipset which means it doesn't come with the HiFI DAC, iirc. I believe there are some other things missing with that chipset as opposed to the CM238 which are in some other GT73 variants.

check out some discussion here - http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ussions-lounge.794968/page-1034#post-10699972

 

@LapOnMyTop

1) any SSD not only the 850 EVO will blow an HDD or even an HDD RAID setup out of the water in terms of speed and snappiness. Even if you get the cheapest SSD, once you go SSD, you'll never be able to use an HDD

2) Order the RAM you want from the get go because this laptop requires a full disassembly if you wanna access the RAM on the other side under the keyboard so let the reseller do it for you. You wanna have matching pairs for all 4 RAM slots to be in Dual Channel mode and to avoid any compatibility issues. Don't do it yourself! Period

3) I would only get it form HIDevolution as they do a far better thermal paste job than anyone else and they have a little upgrade if you want for the Fujipoly pads which enhances the cooling of this laptop even more

4) Get it with a clean install to avoid bloatware, you're right. The MSI factory image has Norton Security and even with Norton's Removal tool, it still leaves a lot of remnants behind.

5) If you do get it from HIDevolution and thus join the HIDevolution Gaming Team, then I will help you tweak it via TeamViewer

6) What's your budget? I need to know that to recommend you the perfect build and do mention if your budget is tight or a bit flexible

7) Don't forget to email [email protected] or call them and speak to him to get your NBR Discount

 

Thanks so much @Phoenix,

On your point #2 about ram...

"You wanna have matching pairs for all 4 RAM slots to be in Dual Channel mode and to avoid any compatibility issues."

- as far as I am aware...the 32Gig RAM only comes in (2)x16Gig sticks from Xotic and HID...at least on the customization options online. Are you saying I need (4) x8Gig sticks? I'm sort of lost when talking about the 4 slots needing to be in dual channel, because I thought I'd only be filling 2 slots...2x16gig sticks.. (And no sir, I will not be attempting any of these upgrades myself. I know I'm too inexperienced at this point).

On point #3

-Yes I do see that it sounds like there's a few perks from HID, but I feel the points I listed 2 replies up are moving me pretty firmly with Xotic. Because Xotic does not tax, they don't charge a restocking fee if I don't like it and they have a 3% cash discount. If I buy from HID a $3-$4k rig it'll potentially cost me $3-$400 to return it if I don't like it and if I keep it-it'll cost me $3-$400 more to buy itbfrom HID because they charge tax. I justbdont have the extra $3-400 to blow on a return or tax. Much better invested in a better SSD, CPU, RAM etc in my opinion (although I know for a fact I'd love a tweak session with you). I'll also investigate the discount from HID you mention if I mention NBR...perhaps it's hefty enough to sway me.

Point #6

My budget...lets just say I could afford the Acer Predator 21X right now if I really wanted it (but I don't lol). I am feeling like $4k with upgrades is probably my absolute max...although I'd *prefer* to be spending more like $3k with upgrades. If in the end the hardware I need in order to avoid redundant specs is the higher price tag I think I'm willing to pay. Ive always been the type that says if youre going this far, you might as well go the whole mile.

May I ask you what your opinions are on that GT73 with 7820HK CPU, GTX 1070 and 2.9Ghz base clock at Xotic PC on special for $1899 is? (Previous commentor warned against its chipset...that it doesn't have CM238 chipset. I read another thread saying the CM238 is better).

Both these CPUs in the GT73 7820HK ($1899) and the GT75 I9-8950HK ($3299) have a base clock of 2.9

 

Unfortunately, you missed this thread, my current GT73VR Titan Pro with the CM238 and a great binned CPU (meaning it can overclock higher and stay cool) @ 4.4 GHz was sold instantly to @Dr. AMK

Yes, either go for the CM238 chipset or don't. Not only for the Sabre DAC which I couldn't care less about, but the CM238 is a far superior chipset and doesn't throttle the CPU

My theory in life is if you're gonna go, either go all the way or don't. Even if you have to delay the purchase for a little bit and save up more cash but hey, that's just me

As for the RAM, yes 2x16GB would give you dual channel, just tell XOTIC PC to install that RAM under the keyboard so in case you ever want to upgrade in the future, it's as simply as opening the back panel, installing the new RAM and closing the panel again, even a 5 year old can do this (no pun intended)

you also wanna make sure you have Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut on the CPU not Kryonaut! Kryonaut is rubbish.

On a side note, I don't think HIDevolution collects sales tax, but email [email protected] for sure, and to get the Notebookreview discount of up to $70 USD

The MSI GT75 8RG TITAN-056 comes with the latest CM426 chipset.

Intel® Core™ i7-8850H is overclockable by up to 400MHz

The MSI GT73VR 7RE -427 is on sale at $1,899 on their site as well

With their Grizzly Conductonaut and Fujipoly pad, the MSI GT75 8RG TITAN-094 is 84C GPU, and 86C CPU after AIDA64 stress test, multiple benchmarks and an hour and a half intense gaming when I enquired while purchasing my own GT75 Titan 8RG

Without the thermal upgrades GPU Is 91C and CPU is 99C under the same testing methods.

 

As far as going with the chipset CM238 then, it looks like I'm narrowing down to the GT75 with I9-8950HK...

(it has the GTX 1080 that I prefer over the GTX 1070 in the GT73 anyway).

I can afford the GT75 I9-8950HK and more...Ive just got to let it sink in that I'm about to spend that much money. Gt75 $3299 with the premium Gskill ram & Evo ssd upgrarades I want is probably going to run me $4200...

But as I understand you from your first post-I can still go with cheaper ssd & ram and still see great improvement, correct? (Would shave off couple hundred) any real benefits to Gskill or Samsung EVO you know of that really matters in the end?

Thank you so much for recommending I ask them to installments ram under the keyboard-I watched a video of Taking the GT75 apart (just so I could get a better visual idea of what SSD RAM, CPU, actually looks like and where it all is etc...and I did see that other ram bank behind there. Still never occurred to me that I could ask them to install the ram there for easy upgrade later, just another small reason why yall are so great. *Little details easily overlooked that matter*

With the thermal grizzly...the only grizzly paste option xotic offers is the Kryonaut...gentechpc has conductor, but they're gonna tax me and restock fee me like HID.

Xotic PC only offers: IC Diamond or the Grizzly Kryo (at least for the GT75 I9-8950HK), but I was leaning towards IC Diamond anyway...because I have it on my laptop now and saw on a review that grizzly needs to be repasted every 6 months? That reason alone discouraged me from going with grizzly, because I'm not ready to be doing all that. Do you think IC Diamond should be ok?

 

Read my last reply again. I edited it and included more facts at the bottom.

also, see my recent order I just posted: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...our-orders-here.800581/page-147#post-10714045

Be smart...be like Phoenix....

Trust me, if you buy it from HIDevolution and once you realize what a great machine you will get that works out of the box. I am almost 99% certain that you wouldn't wanna return it! this is the best laptop out there with the best cooling, best screen, best keyboard, and superb performance. Why the heck would you not wanna keep it is the question!

PS: Liquid metal like Liquid Ultra or Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut does not require repasting for at least 1.5 years or more. IC Diamond requires repasting anywhere between 3 - 6 months for optimal performance.

Kryonaut on the other hand is the worst thermal paste in the world! It will require repasting after 3 days! Tested by me extensively! It's horrible!

 

@LapOnMyTop the i9 8950HK is a good choice, much better than the 8850H, which will have TDP restrictions. Expensive, but you should be able to overclock it as far as the silicon allows. For extreme overclockers, there is an EC amps limit on the CPU where if exceeded, the EC just shuts off the laptop (the GT73VR and GT75VR both have this too), but this is if you bypass MSI's own internal calibrations by drawing more current than what they "think" would prevent the heatsink from keeping the CPU under 100C. They fail to have factored in users using liquid metal, sanded down heatsinks, AVX stress testing, and pushing close to 5 ghz (which would always cause the stock paste job to reach 100C), but no one knows what point that triggers at as no one has tested it yet (since no one has an i9 on this platform). On the 7820HK, FMA3 prime95 at 4.4 ghz @ 1.18v or AIDA64 CPU stress test at 4.7 ghz @ 1.27v is enough to trigger this, although if you disable AVX/FMA3 in prime95, you can run small FFT no problems at 4.7 ghz at below 1.3v. You start running into EC limitations if you really start pushing things (MSI's own decisions; the actual VRM's can handle the load). It would be interesting to know if you can push >4.6 ghz on all 6 cores and all 12 threads with the i9.

I don't know how much XotiC PC charges for their liqud metal upgrade, nor if they use proper prep protection like HIDevolution does. So that I can't help you with. I did LM on my own laptop and bought my GT73VR from them with stock paste and did it myself. Since you said you won't buy from HIDevoution, I can't give you advice on XPC's quality with liquid metal repasting. But they do have a good warranty if something goes wrong.

Enjoy your laptop. Make sure you post results when you get it.

 

HID unfortunately does indeed charge sales tax...I tried to upload a screenshot, but cannot find out how to on here...(you should see the tax on your bill if you bought from them though lol...unless you get a special hookup or unless they only tax USA which is where I am). If you put any GT75 etc in your cart and go to checkout on there-you'll see the tax added. (At least in USA).


About the model ( MSI GT75 TITAN-056 with the i7 8850H), you linked in your edit:

I apologize...I should've been more specific, its the MSI GT75 TITAN-094 with the i9 8850HK, not the 056 that I'd narrowed down to vs. the MSI GT73VR 7RE-427 since the start of the thread and for these apparent reasons:
(I dont know if you read the replies on the thread from Falkentyne, but the he says...)


"No one knows how the LOCKED DOWN chips of the H series Gt75 6 core locked processors will throttle and under what conditions. But the base clock if it exceeds 45W TDP is *2.2 ghz*, which is even lower than the 2.8 ghz of the 7700hQ. Keep that in mind. If you can afford it, I would get the i9 chip, simply because you can avoid all that throttling and the "Advanced" Bios menus (should you choose to manually unlock it in the future when you are more experienced with your laptop can remove all of the other bizarre throttling and voltage boost crap." -falkentyne

"HK processors can exceed their rated TDP. HQ/H processors can not (can only exceed it by 1.5x (50% higher) for 28 seconds!" -falkentyne

Because of that I was leaning towards the MSI GT75 TITAN-094 (which it looks like you have). Because the MSI GT75 TITAN-056 supposedly has the *un-clockable* locked down CPU that will throttle it down to 2.2Ghz when it hits 45W TDP...he went into great detail on that for me. But you say it is overclockable??

Im beginning to get confused...I need clarification please! <3...

 

Trust me, contact [email protected] regarding sales tax. He can also give you good information about overclocking and performance.

 

He has privately messaged me already, but look at this...its taxed.

 

Don't get stuck on what you see there. Please see my PM

 

Thank you so much!!

 

@Donald@HIDevolution glad I got 3 people happy in this thread. You, Laptoponmylaptop and PhoenixSteelseriesKeyboard.
Enjoy the sale and enjoy your new full RGB keyboard, @LapOnMyTop I wish I had a full RGB keyboard I didnt have to carry in my backpack with me to enjoy such beauty!
Yes, the 8950HK is better than the 8850H (there is no 8850HK btw).

 

Me >>>


And, he's not buying it from HIDevolution, he already said he can't afford it

 

Thank you @Falkentyne for all of your detailed advice and help...seriously learned so much. I'm just waiting to hear back from Donald and it looks like he'll be helping me fine tune my choices for the GT75-094 i9 8950HK.

 

*He is actually a *she lol (yes women are hardcore gamers too!) That's me in my profile pic.
Donald has made some adjustments for me and I'm going with HIDevolution.

 

@Donald@HIDevolution is a great guy as well as everyone on the HIDevolution team. You made an excellent decision.

Make sure you do the liquid metal upgrade service on your i9 8950HK because those chips run quite hot (as you can see from the alienware 17 r5 battlefield 1 gameplay video posted on that thread there. Their processor was reaching 95C and throttling.

There's also some juicy stuff in the hidden bios menus that you can use if you ever decide to unlock them and you figure out what each option does.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/8th-gen-cpu-gtx-1070-or-7th-gen-cpu-gtx-1080.815584/page-10

 

I will absolutely do the liquid metal upgrade to keep temps low. As I continue to learn, hopefully you guys can throw more advice my way with the BIOS. And since I'm going HID, maybe @Phoenix will do a tweak session with me.

 

I have responded to all of the messages I have received from you...did I miss one, and if so, how was it sent...email, PM??

 

It was a private message on here, yes

 

Hehe...already replied