MSI Bios vs Clevo/Sager Bios

I've been a long time Clevo user but their bios options have become completely locked down to the point where I consider them unusable and the guys that used to do custom jobs have all but fled in recent years or have entered partnerships with specific resellers.

How does MSI's stock bios on their laptops compare to Clevo machines? What kind of hoops do you guys generally have to jump through to get control of your systems?

 

MSI has a problem with using barely large enough AC adapters and relying on battery to power additional needs. Of course though, you will find different opinions based on who you ask.

@Falkentyne would be able to better guide you to those proponents

Having to buy from a specific reseller isnt too bad most of the time, though of course your local currency may make that difficult.

 

MSI's BIOS is better and more open than Clevo machines (non-desktop replacement), also regarding the battery that TheReciever has mentioned which is true, but it (NOS) actually offer more performance than machines that can't take advantage of additional juice on top of AC power.
Hope that addressed your concerns.

 

Interesting you say that as it requires hex editing iirc to disable NOS. This feature (unless changed since last I looked on the subject) cant be disabled.

You didnt spell my name right either :/

 

Corrected, it's like those words where we only still perceive even with the letters in the middle rearranged.

 

No harm lol, spelled correctly it tends to be used by football fanatics.

 

Requires hex editing AND removing the internal battery.
It's impossible to disable NOS if the battery is actually inserted without causing 60% power system limit throttle (GTX 1070=150W, GTX 1080=180W I believe is the throttle cutoff point; older cards I don't know)

There is a "way" to disable NOS with the battery connected, and avoid the throttle, but I haven't yet tested if it works if the CPU and video card are fully loaded simultaneously. It does work if only the videodcard is loaded.

You set IMON Slope=10 and IMON OFFSET= negative 31999 in CPU VR Settings, then do the hex edit.

 

I'm not really an overclocker. I'm kind of niche in my needs and prefer to go the opposite direction and underclock/undervolt as much as possible in order to reduce noise, heat, and voltage spiking, even at the cost of performance. Would this NOS thing be a hindrance to someone like me?

 

You do what you need to do to reduce heat/voltage and NOS will not be a hindrance to you. But again, it depends on what you do with it.
NOS is only used when you put load on the system then it becomes activated to provide more performance.

 

What happens if the battery is discharged and NOS is prompted?

 

NOS is disabled when battery has reached 30%.

 

So then the performance of the machine is nerfed to the limit of the AC adapter provides? Or is there some other function that nerfs the machine further to recharge the battery and then reinstate NOS function?

During which time the AC adapter is full tilt? Not necessarily a bad thing to do as most AC adapters are built pretty well compared to seemingly wild west by comparison of the desktop PSU market but its not something you would want full tilt over long periods of time if he/she is the type to play long sessions that could be problematic over time.

 

No.

Performance is limited to the point where the battery would start being "combined" with the AC Adapter, even though the AC adapter is capable of supplying MUCH more power.
On a GT73VR and GT75VR, this happens at 150W or 160W when a GTX 1070 is installed (assuming a 230W AC adapter, but using the 330W makes no difference), and this happens at 180-190W when a GTX 1080 is installed (assuming 330W PSU).

So let's just say that performance is 'nerfed' to 160W for GTX 1070 systems and 180W for GTX 1080 systems.

Exceeding this power limit will cause the CPU to throttle or even be cut down to 800 mhz.

The same thing happens when the battery is disconnected.
(the value in EC RAM register C6 changes from C0 to 40).

Note that this power throttle does not affect the video card at all (assuming the CPU isn't running at 800 mhz). You can have a 180W AC limit and have a TDP modded GTX 1070 or GTX 1080 running at 230W, full speed, and the system will try to throttle the CPU.

You can disconnect the battery and then change two or three EC RAM registers (31 to "09" and 42 to "64", then change register E3 if you want after) to make the system think the battery is connected (this will change EC RAM register C6 to "C0", from "40"), and the system will draw up to the maximum AC power limit allowed (230w for GTX 1070, 330W for GTX 1080; changing the value in EC RAM register E3 can allow 330W for a GTX 1070 if you change it to the GTX power ID, which is "11" on the skylake GT73VR, 91 on Kaby GT73VR and GT75VR, and 11 on GT75 Titan apparently).)..

 

I'm kind of slow so please forgive me but let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.

So, this NOS firmware, or whatever it is, is designed to both draw extra power from the battery when it feels you need it, and yet MSI has also placed a completely arbitrary power limitation on the power draw that makes your cpu take a **** when you exceed this limit? And you have absolutely no control over it? And this problem is further exacerbated by the power supplies being too small for the hardware they're coupled with?

 

You nailed it.

(edit)
The PSU's are large enough to use enough system power to never have to touch the battery. The base GTX 1070 (4 core) systems come with a 230W PSU, and you will never exceed 220W on an unmodded 1070. 4 core 1080 systems come with a 330W PSU which is more than sufficient.

@Papusan is flaming mad about this too.

I was able to pull 365W from the AC Adapter on a *GTX 1070* (modded to 230W) with the battery disconnected and a few EC (Embedded Controller) registers changed in RWEverything. Yes I am using the 330W adapter. (365W is hard, requires AVX prime95 and 230W TDP on the GTX 1070).

 

Can you see the stupidity? And not the only trash Msi push. More here.



All that glisters is not gold—
Often have you heard that told.
Many a man his life hath sold
But my outside to behold.
Gilded tombs do worms enfold.
Had you been as wise as bold,
Young in limbs, in judgment old,
Your answer had not been inscrolled
Fare you well. Your suit is cold—
Cold, indeed, and labor lost.

Please puke with me

 

On GT73VR and GT75VR, the PSU's are large enough to never have to touch the battery.

 

Man, that is quite a frustrating hoop to jump through. I hate seeing this kind of crap with every brand now. Whoever programmed this garbage needs to beaten with a log for ruining such fine hardware.

 

@Mr. Fox
Come please !

 

Soldered hardware have never been a great idea in computers and should only be used in phones who don't need more than the power from the battery to power it... See MSI follow the phone manufacturers Can you see a pattern here?

 

Is this why no matter how much I try change the voltage curve on my GE72MVR 7RG, the GPU ends up running at 0.800V all the time sitting at 1680?