MSI 16F4-018 vs Clevo P157SM

So I am looking to buy a gaming laptop and after TONS of reading and learning I have narrowed it down to the 15.6 inch category, which MSI and Clevo barebones are the leading units, specifically the ones mentioned in the title.

Innards - i7-4800MQ, GTX780m, Samsung EVO SSD 256GB x 2, Killer N 1202 Wifi + Bluetooth 4.0 and I am going to put 16 (4 x 4GB) PC-12800 1600Mhz Corsair Vengance RAM....whoever I go with will have these core components. The msata I am thinking about see below...would only be on the Clevo model since MSI does not seem to offer msata on the barebones unless you give up your primary HDD slot.

No one has really tested the MSI 16F4 780 yet - the closest review is the MSI GT60 2OD-026US model....HOWEVER...the MSI barebones does not have msata slots....which in my reading, if I am going Samsung EVO 256GB SSD x2 in RAID0 perhaps there is no need an OS on a msata drive. My reading reveals that though even SATA3 and on the motherboard the msata is only TWO channel and that is not as fast as a normal 4 or 8 pin hard drive connection. So if msata is not really worth it, I LIKE THIS MODEL - the looks and features are very nice....but I can't get a review, only a review of the MSI straight model, which has inherent MSI features like their Cooler Boost that are not featured, and SuperRaid, on their barebones. So with out anyone testing this (although I have read a German site where they have tested pretty much everything Clevo and MSI model wise but this model) I am a little concerned, like no Onkyo speakers, no Cooler boost or proprietary Turbo boost.

The Clevo P157SM is my other option. I DO NOT like the "tribal" emblem", over all look and from what I hear it is hotter and noisier. I cannot find a review of the MSI model to dispute against, but in similar model "branded" MSI units they seem to appear cooler and quieter. BUT the reason I may lean Clevo is that for some reason in the reviews, even when they are equipped the same, the Clevo scores higher in benchmarks and Windows Experience Index. The MSI comparable scores low in the graphics for Windows and gamings scores, even with the GTX 780 and performs slightly slower in the benchmarks. Not just like 5% but more like 15%. That's a difference I cannot shrug off, 5 maybe, 15 no. For example, the two Windows graphics scores are in the FIVES while the Clevo scores are in the SEVENS.

So my questions are, give me reasons to go MSI, give me reasons to go Clevo, let me know what you think about msata with OS as opposed to just putting the OS on RAID0 SSDs? If you own a MSI 16F4, speak up....because documentation is lacking...People that own the P157SM, chime in, is yours quiet, loud, hot? I hear the Clevo touch pad is terrible besides looking terrible.

Help please, I wanna buy soon.

EDIT - the closest review I can find for the MSI barebones is the Nomad 15 from Maingear, but that is last 2012 modell chassis 16F33. The Valkyrie CZ-15 is also the old chassis.

I really really like the MSI, but the Windows scores puzzle me. What is Clevo doing different?

 

Which scores are you referring to? I was not aware my system was scoring 15% slower than comparable notebooks. I believe you might have the wrong numbers. This would mean a clevo is scoring over 8.5k on 3dmark 11 on stock clocks.

Windows experience index is meaningless. If you would like any info on games or anything, let me know. I have a review of the GT60 with some game tests. I ran them with stock drivers but I can run some of them again if you'd like, with newer drivers. My windows experience index is 7.2, with the scores being 7.9 / 7.9 / 7.2 / 7.2 / 8.0

Reasons for MSI? Better keyboard and sound. If you mention clevo runs hotter AND noisier, then you have two more reasons in favor of the barebone. And you don't seem to like the looks either, so we have a lot of reasons going for the MSI.

Question, are you dead set on 2x256 evo ssds? I ask because the main advantage of branded MSI vs barebone is support and warranty. Plus a single 512GB or even a 960GB SSD will serve you better for general usage, even if it won't beat benchmarks. If you want speed for large files you can do a cheap 3x128GB msata too.

 

As brother Ryzeki said!!!!:thumbsup:

 

Actually we for instance can put an mSATA adapter into the barebone to give you the mSATA slots.

However having mSATA slots in either the retail or barebone will only leave you with 1 2.5" bay (unless you convert the optical port) so if you want to run 2x2.5" bays you want to avoid the mSATA models.

 

Thanks for the replies all...let me clear up a little...

First regarding the test scores...I have no idea why the MSI model was a little slower...it was in benchmark tests, but both reviews of the two MSI models said there was no real world difference. I am looking for the reviews again, but generally the Clevo line of 370 and 570 was beating the MSI line. Kind of bummed me out as I like the looks of MSI. Also, it is the MSI that I read that is hotter, by up to 6 degrees. Also a little worried about what you are saying about support that MSI offers for it's barebones versus branded. Just not a fan of the way MSI sets up their "branded" rigs and costs to much to rearrange.

The reason why I am pretty stuck on the 250GB x 2 EVO in RAID is because the technology that Samsung uses in making the EVO fast. Setting aside flash to act as "SLC" when it is TLC is smart and cost effective...however, when the set aside cache is used up, the speeds slow down...to overcome this, and to save a total of 120-150 dollars depending on the site, the RAID allows the sharing of the cache to pretty much assure no overflow in my opinion and guestimation. I am staying away from msata because it is only two channel and like you said, takes up a drive bay.

I am still leaning towards the MSI...but still need to do some research...the issue of motherboards on Clevos being revised and the issue of MSI not supporting barebone bios like branded MSI still lends me to caution both brands. I am going to be shelling out $2600 bucks most likely here, so making a solid decision is not a rush procedure.

So far...

Clevo - better chance to add and upgrade in the future...horrible tramp stamp...some hardware and power issues...terrible touch pad, inferior sound...perhaps slightly better in benchmarks

MSI - better looks and sound. possibly hotter and slower. not much room left for upgrades, add ons. possible support issues

 

well I guess it depends on the MSI maker...just read a review that compared the Maingear Nomad 15 to some other models. Granted it was last year (November) with a 680m GPU, but basically everything else is the same and they now offer the newer 780m.

Basically he was very impressed with the performance and temps. He did state that the fan always seemed on, but that is a comfort knowing your system is cool. What he did note was the performance. It outperformed the Clevo offerings of such companies like Eurocom, beat Razer, Alienware and what was funny, ran CIRCLES around the MSI GT60 with the same equipment. Something called Virtu MVP that they install apparently allows the integrated graphics and discrete graphics to work wonders together, testing 1000 points higher than the same equipped MSI GT60. It was allowing the 680 to score as high as the Clevo with 680 SLI and Alienware with 7970 CF.

Pretty sure I am set now, going MS-16F4-018 MSI bare bones, going to have it prepared by Maingear in New Jersey USA (any thoughts on Maingear please list) and will get:

i7-4800 mq
2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance RAM 1600
2 x 256 GB Samsung Pro 840 SSD in RAID0
nVidia 780m GPU
Atheros Killer N 1202 + 4.0 Bluetooth
CD/DVD Super Drive
upgraded display

only thing I haven't choosen, Windows 8 or 7 Ultimate. I am leaning Windows 8 even with no touch screen, just the newest IMHO.

 

In my opinion, you make a big mistake. I was looking for so long for a good 15.4' / 15.6" system and in the end I settled for MSI.

I would go anytime with the MSI GT60 2OD-026US (And not with the barebones, you already mentioned few issues like warranty and bios update), as you get overall so much more: an msata ssd boot drive and a quite large hdd (I think you can remove the msata drive and come down on the price). All those are not important because can be changed in time, but you also have a decent screen by default and a bluray reader if you are into watching through the bluray; as well as the warranty for 2 years + 1 year accidental, all that for $2000.

What I did in time, I got a 512SSD and 3X240 mSATA drives and installed them in RAID 0. Now this system is so stable and quite for every day tasks. Only when I game, I turn the turbo boost 2 on (fan at 100% speed) and everything works perfect. I do not have any issues whatsoever. It takes a little bit to make the system the way you want it...

FYI, here below is my windows score (attached)

 

We shall see. I will post numbers once machine is received. I looked A LOT at the MSI GT60 2OD, but I like the barebones better. Msata is only two channel from the motherboard, SATA3 connections are 4-8. Just not a fan of the msata drives. I am pretty positive that in my research Samsung Pro 840 256GB SSD in a RAID config will be plenty fast. Add all that in with a 4800MQ and I will take my chances. Again, Maingear seems pretty competent in the research I have done, I like the look of the barebones, and the use of this Virtu software blows my mind. To my knowledge MSI branded rigs do not contain this software. To be continued...

 

Faster then what??? My mSATA drives in RAID 0 READ at ~1000mb/s and WRITE at ~450mb/s as per the ssd READS at ~500mb/s and WRITES at ~450mb/s; what more then that you want from this system?! There is not much performance you are going to gain anyway... I think this is very close to the best you could get from a performance notebook, though it is not like we are going to use that speed in everyday tasks, unless you keep copying and removing stuff all day long which will anyway, in any case degrade the performance of any SSD, in time.

You just want to show that you have more performance then anyone out there?! Its better to get more space and get the same speed in most of the applications out there, than to sacrifice size over 5% performance... Don't mind my comments, I am just trying to convince you to be more realistic...

 

Super Raid 2 is pretty cool. 3XmSATA in the primary bay. You can use these SSDs for windows and games. Get a WD 1TB and put it in the second bay. This way, you'll get the benefit of having a fast SSD and a drive to store data. Also, there is the option to add anothe HDD to the ODD bay. I cant see how two evos would be of greater benefit than the config I mentioned.

 

I am definitely in favor of 3xmsata for speed and 1 large HDD. Altho in my case I would still like a 960gb 2.5 SSD for the large bay hahaha

Depending on which brand and size of msata SSD you get, some users get near 1400mb/s reads too I believe.

 

I will be just happy with Samsung Pro 256GB x 2 in a RAID0. I have seen the test results. Msata will always come down to being only two channels. The performance increases you enjoy in your msata configs will also be seen in what I am doing too...I have no need of terabytes of storage on a laptop. When I get it I will ask where to get these "performance tests" and run them and post results for you. I am very interested in seeing this Virtu MVP in use, in your MSI model the on-board graphics turn off when you go to your GPU...in this model, the on board will assist in a quasi SLI combo the GPU. Like I said, they had a 680m performing almost (only 3 frames difference) as fast as a 680SLI or 7970 CF config.s

Thanks all for your help. Bottom line is I am shying away from Clevo and that horrible tramp stamp.

 

deleted, unknown why double posted

 

So the 16F4 barebone has native Virtu MVP support?

 

Yes, it is true. Before I kept 1 mSATA by itself as the operating system and 2 X Raid 0. Now I have them all 3 in Raid 0 and the performance is huge comparable to before. Read 1375 mb/s and write 467.5 mb/s. I simply cannot believe it...

 

No, my understanding is that Maingear is one of the few DTRs that use it. When the VirtuMVP works, it is awesome, when it doesn't, well no biggie.

 

They should sell the software for laptops too! I know you can buy it for desktops but only select vendors can sell notebooks with it. So unfair, I wanted to test it out, seems like an interesting solution not only for performance, but the virtual vsync etc too.

 

Well my initial review of Maingear is not promising so far...

I ordered the laptop last week and had problems all week with the order, as of Friday they tell me everything is a ok and the charge appears on my AMEX statement, then I wake up to an email Monday asking how I want to pay for the system. After getting it all cleared up I basically lost a week of build time because of some internal error on their part and while I got an apology, and free upgrade in shipping would have been appreciated to make up for some of the days lost. Further reviews to come of the out of box experience and the actual machine.

 

The most virtu will do is likely boost your FPS counter by counting discarded non rendered frames....