If your MSI notebook has micro-stutters or mouse-pointer-freezes, try this.

A common problem for owners of the new "VR-ready" MSI notebooks with Pascal GPUs is micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing. It's been discussed in multiple owner's lounges, and so far, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. But thanks to a collaborative effort of several MSI notebook owners, a number of fixes have been identified--and more continue to be discovered.

Instead of only discussing this problem across multiple owner's lounge, where owners may come up with solutions that others are less likely to see, let's centralize the conversation here and share what we've learned!

Here's what we've discovered so far in the MSI GS43VR Phantom Pro Owner's Lounge. Please feel free to contribute anything missed here.

First off, if your laptop has Optimus, try going into the Nvidia Control Panel and setting your preferred GPU to to "High-performance NVIDIA processor", then reboot and see if your stuttering issue is gone. If so, congratulations! This has been enough of a fix for some users. If not, or if you don't wish to always have your computer preferring the dGPU, carry on with the rest of this post.

What causes the micro-stutters/mouse-pointer-freezes?
While we can't be entirely certain, the most likely cause is high Deferred Procedure Call (DPC) Latency. Here's a brief explanation of DPC Latency from @PMF, which includes some additional links if you'd like to read more:

But my micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing seems to be Optimus related; it happens only when the iGPU/dGPU switch.

Most owners experience this issue when the iGPU/dGPU switch, and some experience it at other times. (You can tell that your dGPU turns on when your power light color turns yellow). Here's an explanation from @PMF of how DPC Latency and Optimus may interact to cause the stuttering:

How do I measure DPC Latency?

You can download and run a program called LatencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Run this program for about 30-60 minutes, and see if any error messages come up indicating that your system may have difficulty handling real-time audio. Also click on the "Drivers" tab to see which drivers have the highest Execution Time. One or more of these drivers may be the culprit.

Oftentimes, but not always, an offending driver may be "ndis.sys", which is the Network Driver Interface Specification (NDIS), and is the driver for your network card. For example, @spaceray noticed he had terrible micro-stuttering when he was on wireless internet, but when he disabled his wireless and used the Ethernet port, the micro-stuttering went away. He then ran LatencyMon and saw that the Highest Execution Time for ndis.sys was 5468.120370 ms when on Ethernet, but skyrocketed to 273534.716821 ms when on wireless. This indicated pretty clearly his micro-stuttering was being caused by his Killer Wireless.

Sometimes, it's clear what device uses a driver--like ndis.sys being used by your network card--but it's not always. For example, on my computer, LatencyMon showed that Wdf01000.sys has a high Execution Time, but there's no easy way to figure out which devices may be using this driver (and it can vary).


How do I resolve the issue micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing?

As I said before, there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. But here are some things you can try - most of which involve experimenting with various device drivers.

1. Run LatencyMon to identify which drivers have the highest Execution Times and DPC Counts.
2. Try to identify which device uses the driver (using either the info LatencyMon gives about the driver, or Google search the driver name). See if the device's drivers are outdated. If they are, download the latest drivers for the device. You can get them typically from the manufacturer's website, or by going into your Device Manager, right-clicking on the device, and clicking "Update Driver Software."
3. If that doesn't resolve the micro-stuttering, go into your Device Manager (for Windows 10, right-click the Start button, and then click "Device Manager") and disable that device, assuming it's not something critical. Reboot and see if micro-stuttering is still there.
   • If the micro-stuttering is completely gone, then you've identified the device whose driver is responsible for your stuttering. To prevent future stuttering, you can:

• • Simply keep the device disabled. But this would then prevent you from using the device.
  • Double-check that you have the latest driver version. This might not work, however.
  • Try rolling back to a prior driver version (which again, you may be able to get from the device manufacturer's website). You can try experimenting with various prior versions to see if you find one that resolves the stutter. This still might not work, however.
  • Simply uninstall the driver (via the Device Manager). This might make the device unusable, but there might also be other default device drivers that will take over in their absence. (You can pretty quickly figure this out depending on whether the device still works or not after you uninstall the driver. If it doesn't work anymore, you can always re-install the driver to make it work again). You might lose some functionality using default drivers, but it might be a pretty minor loss, especially in comparison to bad stuttering. Note that Windows Update may try to force the previous non-default driver back onto your computer; if so, see this workaround: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...os-owners-lounge.793376/page-47#post-10344748
  • Keep looking out for new driver updates from the manufacturer; a future driver version may get rid of the stutter. @SirGadden reported that an ELAN driver update (which he received through Windows Update) resolved his stuttering issue. Note that not every device will receive driver updates through Windows Update, so you may have to hunt down new driver versions from the device manufacturer's website.
• If the micro-stuttering is still there but is occurring less, then you've identified one device whose driver may be responsible for your stutter. Repeat steps 2-3 for other drivers that LatencyMon identifies as having a high Execution Time.
• If the micro-stuttering hasn't changed, then you haven't identified the responsible driver. Repeat step 2-3 for other drives that LatencyMon identifies as having a high Execution Time.

​

Note about the Killer Wireless Card Adapter: Killer Wireless seems to be a common culprit for several owner's micro-stuttering woes (although it's not always the cause, as @whirledpeas can attest to). Especially if LatencyMon identifies ndis.sys as having high Execution Time (although you might want to try out this tip out this regardless of what LatencyMon says) - try what @spaceray did. Disable your wireless card in the Device Manager, reboot, and plug in Ethernet. Then see if your micro-stuttering issue has been resolved. If so, you can either (1) connect to the internet via an Ethernet cable in the future and keep your wireless disabled (obviously not ideal), or (2) switch out your Killer Wireless Card for an Intel Wireless Card, like @spaceray did (and successfully resolved his issue). I personally had my reseller swap out the stock Killer Wireless Card for an Intel Wireless 8260 card when I bought my GS43VR, and I've been one of the lucky few to have hardly any micro-stuttering. If neither of the above two options sound appealing to you, you can try (3) downloading prior or different Killer driver versions, or (4) keeping your Killer drivers up to date in hopes that a future driver will eventually fix it.

Note: Even if your ndis.sys driver has high DPC latency, there's no guarantee that swapping the wireless card will fix your stuttering issue, and it certainly hasn't worked for every user that's tried it, but multiple users have reported that swapping cards has worked. Thankfully Intel 8260 cards are relatively cheap ($15 USD or so), but it's still a potential solution that involves spending some money, and there's some risk it won't work. I personally think if you're having terrible stuttering issues, it's money well spent, but obviously it's up to you.


If you tried the above steps 1-3 and they didn't work, then you may have to start throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. Here are some other options:

• Make sure all of your computer's device drivers are up to date, in hopes that an updated driver will fix the problem.
• Try updating the BIOS; a fix might eventually come through a BIOS update
• Try experimenting with disabling devices in your Device Manager, one by one, to see if you can identify the culprit. This obviously will take some time.
• Alternatively (or additionally) to the last suggestion, just start uninstalling various drivers - you might eventually identify the culprit this way, too.
• If you're up for it, you can also try rolling back to Windows 7; Windows 7 drivers may, at least for some devices, cause lower DPC Latency than Windows 10 drivers.

*Shortcuts to possible solutions: With all these principles in mind, here is a list of various solutions that other users have found worked for them. This list was originally compiled by @hmscott and later supplemented by me. If steps 1-3 don't work, or if you'd rather take a scatter-shot approach, you can try simply going down this list and seeing if anything works for you.

Lastly, you can always report this issue to MSI Support. The more people who raise it with them, the better likelihood that they can help fix this through a BIOS update or otherwise.


I hope that all of this information is helpful. Many thanks to the many owners who have offered their insights and time trying to overcome this annoying issue; this thread is merely a summary of what has been a collective effort. I am by no means an expert, and if anything above is incorrect, please feel free to point that out. Additionally, if you have come across any other solutions, or have any other ideas about the problem or how to fix it, please do share!

 

I've been running latencymon and as suggested in the original post, I'm getting the most activity within the ndis.sys

I've ordered an intel 8260 wifi card off amazon for $26 USD, but my only question to anyone that has replaced their wifi card on the MSI GS73VR is, is it easy to detatch and reattach the antenna wires from the existing killer 1535 wifi card and place them onto the new wifi card I plan to install?

 

For what it's worth, I had this problem with a GT72S 6QE with 980m. Replacing the killer wireless card with an Intel unit fixed the problem for me.

Also, excellent guide. I love seeing this helpful stuff on NBR

 

I have the same problem on my razer blade 1060 !!!! ( stuttering on happens on desktop background never in games! )

it's so frustrating, i have the killer 1535 as well, i tried the preferred nvidia graphics and maximum performance it worked !!!!!! but it's not ideal as my laptop is small and i can hear the fan running a bit more faster than normal on background cause i can hear them while laptop is on idle.

i ran latencyMon and that's what it gave me:
Your system seems to have difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.

LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:22:35 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

does that mean it's from my killer 1535 ? do i have to change it ? because i disabled it from device manager and the problem did not stop, does it mean it's not from the killer or it might still be? hopefully anyway here can help ? and thx for all the info that has been given here .

 

Ah, a number of non-MSI owners have complaining lately of the same issue, so it looks like this isn't unique to MSI laptops. Sorry to hear you've been affected too!

Have you tried disabling your wireless card in Device Manager and running off ethernet? See if that helps with the stutter. If it does, then swapping our your killer 1535 for an intel wireless card will likely help (though not guaranteed)

 

i did try, i disabled my network and sound card nothing fixed it , only putting nvidia as preferred card and maximum performance worked for me, i sent a copy of latencymon results to razer support and they r working on it to see a fix hopefully they do , for me it happens only in background not inside game at all,
and it's so weird when i update my Nvidia driver WITHOUt RESTARTING my laptop not stuttering at all !!! nothing !! until i restart laptop which make me feel it can be fixed by bios update!

 

I experienced a moment of mouse lag when I booted up, after loading windows, but I haven't experienced it in a while now. the only different thing I have done is that I uninstalled Dragon Center, and updated my graphics drivers to the latest version. So far, I have had no issues with freezing/micro stuttering etc.

 

Last week I had to send back 2 different msi vr73 laptops. They came with a crazy amount of bloatware, so both times I attempted to just to do a factory reset. Both times, the laptops froze at 9% and wouldn't budge. Support recommend a restart which sent it into a repeating boot cycle.
After I sent the 2 laptops back, I decidedto get the msi vr43. I received it today. I manually removed the bloatware, but noticed that I was getting mouse pointerfreezes about once every 3 minutes. I'm glad that Im not so unlucky to get 3 laptops that are malfunctioning, and that other people have this issue. I love the look of the MSI laptops, and their specs for the price are great, but I find it hard to justify the cost of it with these kinds of issues. Even with the workaround. The laptops are expensive. I don't really want to replace a wireless card less than 24 hours of owningit when I could go get a fully functional Asus laptop.. am I wrong? I hate the idea of sending a third laptop back in one week, but these are issues that should be resolved before they are sold... Feedback would be appreciated

 

Have you tried the solutions proposed here? This topic is not exclusive to MSI. These DPC issues happen to many other laptops, and the stutter problem is also present in optimus laptops from other vendors, so you might have gotten the same experience with other machines.

Has any of the solutions actually help you address the issue?

 

I'd like to chime in regarding the micro-stuttering/freezing, I own the GS63VR 7RF but the laptops are essentially the same. I'm a mixing engineer so DPC latency is of the utmost importance to me. I ran a couple of tests with LatencyMon (I was having a LOT of micro-stuttering) and immediately noticed NDIS.sys being the culprit, after disabling the Killer NIC adapter, guess what, DPC latency is reporting excellent values

Here's some screens.

First two are with wlan adaper ON. Look at the monstrosity amount of interrupts. It was spiking like this every 2-3 seconds.




Now, here's with wlan disabled. Yep.



I was even running on battery which is bound to have a bit more of interrupts due to speedstep and other power management features.
I've already ordered an Intel 8620 to replace this POS nic. I've never seen anything like this. I've tried all driver versions.

 

im experiencing what i think is this issue on a brand new gt72vr 6re, it keeps stuttering mainly on fallout 4, can anybody help at all, is this a faulty system? its driving me nuts, my first and possibly last MSI laptop :-(

 

for what its worth I have completely eliminated the problem on my msi gs43VR. I removed the driver for the touchpad. When you do that it removes the two finger scrolling. Once i did that the problem was gone. I reinstalled it to see if it would bring it back and it did. Removed the driver again and the problem was gone. So for me at least , the guestures dont seem to work at the moment.

 

For people with GPU switch stuttering, there's a reliable way to cause the stutter:

1. Disable "Lock the taskbar".
2. Move the mouse somewhere along the top of the taskbar so that the "resize" cursor shows up.
3. Click.

For me, this causes a stutter and a momentary GPU switch every time. However, I don't always see a spike in LatencyMon, and even when I do, it's only ndis.sys.

 

I loved my MSI GS43VR laptop because of its power and small form factor. Unfortunately, I also had the micro-stutter problem. The only times it would happen is when I use my touchpad while watching a video. If I use my mouse, nothing seemed to be wrong-- it was smooth and perfect, but whenever I used my touchpad, it would always freeze up. I tried to uninstall the ELAN touchpad driver and it actually helped. There were no problems, but it was really annoying because I couldn't use two-finger scrolling (which is really useful when reading online articles for school). So, I reinstalled the drivers and the problems came back. In another forum, it was suggested to uninstall the Killer Network WiFi driver and the Nahimic program. I did this today and I have had no micro-stutters since. I'm hoping it sticks (if it doesn't I will make sure to post back here). I tried every other solution on here and none of them worked (except for the touchpad driver uninstallation, which wasn't worth it). This solution, however, worked for me and I thought that I would share it with you all, since this forum was useful for me to realize that this was not a problem that only I faced (I called MSI last month and they told me that I am the only person that they have ever heard of with this problem).

[Also, when I first got my laptop, I did a fresh install of Windows]

Good luck to you all!

 

The Microstutter issue looks to be related to both Windows 10 and Optimus!
The Windows Insider build 15042 update seems to have fixed all the stuttering occurrences, including, but not limited to:

• Changes in the wallpaper slideshow.
  
• Resizing the taskbar.
  
• Opening various menus (battery, WiFi)

You guys will probably never see Microstutters again once this update turns official. Until then, stay tuned!
If this is really true, I'm probably getting an Optimus laptop for the sake of having an all rounder, non dGPU only machine.
Credit goes to @ D_Steve595!

 

You beat me to it
Glad Microsoft finally got it sorted out. It's been an issue since launch.

 

It was thanks to your heads up. I'm very well alarmed about the issues because I'm seeking the perfect chance to purchase an Optimus laptop. I've been eyeing MSI laptops for long, and I think this could be it!

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

 

Do you happen to know when it could possibly go live? I realized my fix wasn't perfect. It only decreases the frequency of microstutters.

 

If you want it right now, you can enroll in the Insider program and choose the Fast ring. The latest build is pretty stable as they're getting close to release. It takes a few hours to register your computer, then the update takes about a half hour to install. Just look at the known issues to make sure nothing you need is broken, and expect some things to not go perfectly.

 

SOLUTION (msi gs43vr) : device manager=display adaptors=nvidia=roll back driver= after this uninstall geforce experience=then go to nvidia site and download the latest driver BUT CHOSE CUSTOM INSTALLATION= i installed everything BUT nvidia audio, and geforce experience! since then i never had any problem and the pc only swtich to nvidia before starting games not all the time, which caused the stutters! hope it helps, cause this was driving me crazy

 

[SOLUTION]

Hi everyone,

i bought a MSI GE72MVR two weeks ago and was experiencing that microstutter/mouselags in Windows 10 and in Warcraft 3 as well.

My solution was disabling "Share" in nVidia GeForce Experience" - Settings.

Notebook works like a charm now!


hope that helps you too!

 

Has anyone successfully swapped the Killer NIC for the Intel 8620 and saw improvements in DPC Latency?
I got a refund for mine as I moved cities and didn't want to go through the hassle, I'm contemplating getting this one again and changing the NIC if it does yield good results. I don't want to turn off Wi-fi whenever I need to work with audio, nor it's even usable for youtube viewing etc as you'd need to have Wi-fi on.

Check my previous post for a brief overview of the issue:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ointer-freezes-try-this.798873/#post-10451683

 

@spaceray was dealing with microstuttering on his GS43VR. He ran LatencyMon and determined that his Killer card was causing high DPC latency. He then switched out the Killer card for an Intel wireless, and it resolved his microstuttering.

 

I dont have ELAN Driver nor Nahimic nor Geforce Experience nor Killer Wireless. I still have this issue and I couldnt find any solution yet.

 

Your solution is to either roll back to Win7 or wait for the Win10 creators update which has addressed the microstutters. I see no point in trying solutions that have not worked for all, while the problem is already located.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

 

Can anyone confirm this is the correct card for the MSI GS73VR? My latency is pretty bad, and I'm on the creators update with a clean install, no Killer software, and updated BIOS.

Could the high ACPI be caused by the Killer card as well?

Note: I was connected to the system with TeamViewer with it on WiFi for this screenshot.

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Wirele...TF8&qid=1493730004&sr=8-1&keywords=intel+8265

 

Hey Guys, I've just registered to let you know this:
My model is GS73VR 6RF
Here's what I did: delete killer driver, delete realtec HD audio driver (MSI website version), delete Nvidia HD Audio and geforce experience (leave only latest Phisyx and gpu driver), and install latest realtec hd audio from realtek website. Try to recreate issue, it worked for me, hope it works for you too
PS. I did clean install of windows, latest version as well.
Cheers!

 

Just get here with some solution for you guys its not listed in main post.
My model is GS70 2PE Stealth Pro
I have this terrible mouse pointer freezes mostly when playing some consuming games like HOTS or Overwatch, it was sometimes really unplayeble and frustrating i can tell you that! I even downgraded form Win10 > Win7 with no success. As it turns out the problem was in USB 3.0 configuration. If you have 2.0 ports you can simply plug in your mouse there and see for yourself but all my ports is 3.0
I went into my BIOS and disabled this:
XHCI Mode = Disabled - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 2.0 port
Also just in case i disabled "Legacy support" for usb. And thats it, no more freezes! I hope someone find it useful!

 

I have replaced Killer WiFi with Dell Wireless 1830 but still freezes. Also created this topic on MSI forums:

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=288483.0

 

Has anyone tried disabling Hyperthreading to see if that stops the stuttering?

Skylake / Kaby Lake Hyper-threading bug

Is it possible to disable Hyperthreading in the current MSI BIOS / UEFI?

Maybe ask MSI for a tool to disable hyperthreading until a new Microcode is released?

 

I've seen quite a few "unofficial" microcode updates for 6th and 7th gen CPUs, which even Intel claims they work and are not harmful. If hyperthreading remains an issue, I might think about buying a quad core i5 laptop...

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

 

Hyperthreading was an issue to test for for a number of years, some apps ran slower with it on, it causes extra heat - thermal output - in excess of it's added performance value - providing a less than 50% improvement than doubling of the threads suggests.

Most games for many years only used 1-2 cores, then slowly 3-4 cores, so leaving hyperthreading off quad-core CPU's wasn't harmful performance wise.

For OC'ing turning off Hyperthreading can make a big difference by removing additional heat and power draw, depends on the benchmark if it uses those extra threads - for many years they didn't.

For now disabling Hyperthreading in the UEFI / BIOS should be enough, I wouldn't downgrade to a non-hyperthreading CPU laptop just yet

 

I have installed Latency Monitor and it can not detect this problem. Latency Monitor itself is also stuck during this process. This is way more low level hardware stuff IMHO.

 

I have created a topic on Microsoft forums. Please click on "Me Too" and leave a comment.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...-problem/93e7004a-62b1-4211-8e37-4c136608865e

 

Hello, why do I have msi gs63 7rf losing frames when watching video 60 fps (10-15 frames at a time) using Google Chrome browser. On an old laptop everything was fine

 

Update: Microsoft identified the problem: https://support.microsoft.com/en-ph...c-or-wake-up-on-computers-that-have-two-video

 

I'm not sure, but this doesn't sound like micro-stuttering. Try asking about it in the GS63 owner's lounge: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/msi-gs63vr-stealth-pro-owners-lounge.795498/

Is this the right link? The support topic appears to be describing black screen issues, not micro-stuttering?

 

This is what was told to a user. NVIDIA is also actively investigating the issue. A proper reply is imminent.

 

Update: I can confirm that it is the same thing with UAC black screen and freeze.

 

I'm not sure if this is going to help anyone but it helped me.

If you have Intel Rapid Storage Technology (IRST) installed, try disabling "Link Power Management".

I almost smacked my laptop right out of the box because of IRST, it's causing a weird and constant stuttering and freezing during gameplay. Disabling "Link Power Management" or even uninstalling IRST (if you don't have raid) fixed the problem.

 

This sooooo much!! I figures this out a few weeks ago. One night my drive entered power saving mode and got a 10 sec freeze during a team fight in a moba. Event Log displayed a warning reset istora raid:0 or something like that. After a lot of research I found this setting. I am guessing my C drive entered sleep mode since all my games are in the D drive.

 

Digging up an old thread here. I just bought a GT83VR with a Killer 1535 wlan card in it. I have a logitech wireless gaming mouse and it would not work if I plugged the dongle on the left side USB ports(very close to where the wlan card is installed). The right side USB ports work perfectly with the wireless mouse. Now a corded mouse worked on any port. Not sure if this is helpful or even the same thing as what everyone else has experienced, but couldn't find anyone with my same exact symptom with a GT83VR in any other forum. Maybe this will help someone.

Thanks,

Matt

 

Which mouse?
A G403 or G900/G903? None of the left side USB ports work? Does the mouse receiver get detected or does the mouse even move?

 

Interesting find. I have a bluetooth mouse that I occasionally have connection and stuttering issues with, and I bet it's related. Guess I really should order a card lol.

 

It's a G900 mouse. The 3 ports on the left, if I plug in the receiver work, but it gets choppy and freezes. Ports on the right, no problems at all. A wired mouse on any ports(left or right), no problems.

I also tried a completely different wireless mouse on the left ports. It was a Logitech M510. Cursor doesn't move at all(maybe a weaker signal from the mouse).

This points to interference with the wlan card IMHO. but it looks like replacing it might be a real pain. .

Other than that, my new GT83VR 6RE seems to be a solid machine. I did have it crash on me once while playing GTA V for about an hour though. Screen went completely white, made a loud buzzing sound, & rebooted itself. Hopefully that was a freak occurrence!

 

White screen and reboot? What is the gpu on this?

 

Dual GTX 1070's in SLI.

I think I've heard of GTX 1070's crashing on the GT73VR. There's virtually nothing about it on a GT83VR. Anyway, hopefully it was a one time glitch!

I thought about returning my new laptop for the mouse issue(cause I've never seen this), but after reading other things around here, I might be lucky that this is all mine is doing. This might be a gold nugget.

 

Run fans at max speed and let your gpu temp fall to less than 40C. Then run Heaven at Basic settings. This will trigger boost 3.0, see if your laptop reboots.

 

No need to physically replace the card on my GT72... just don't install killer suite as is ! Use the driver only version and install it via windows devices manager.

 

@lizardking88mph

Is this an Intel or Killer wireless 1525 card? Sorry if I missed the wifi card. (edit: killer i saw)
I just tested my G900 wireless receiver with the G900 and plugged into the back left port and there were no problems at all. (the mouse was on the right side of the PC). I have an Intel 8265.