HIDevolution Experience ! High Temps 99c+ on a new Gaming Laptop, Amateur Thermal Paste Job(Photos)

Hi

Update: 10-Nov-20
since no one noticed this in their MSI laptops i will raise this issue for future GS75 owners..
I noticed that the CPU heatsink is tied with 3 screws only, I think this is related to the disproportional temp between the cores i saw on the GS75 !
https://ibb.co/TY2bLVD
the best option IMO is to use LM, currently am not exceeding 99c, but the temps are pretty close: http://grabilla.com/0ab0a-043c1b53-2b80-44b3-ab21-fb2da0be2aaa.png
what i did this time is tightening the Up screw more than the bottom ones (but all are well tightened), i think the lower screws were creating more tension and hence the EVEN numbers of the cores were seeing LOWER temps, the overall the ODD core numbers were seeing higher temps ! due to that flawed heatsink around the most critical part which is the CPU, also am seeing less thermal throttling for some reason and no longer hitting 100c under stress test !...

===========

I have been recently posting several threads here and there, I recently bought an MSI GS75 Stealth from HIDEvolution, I came to know about them from MSI Website thinking they would be decent, they were bragging in their chat that they ship 40-70 System Internationally everyday, from my experience with them they'd better do something else not sell gaming laptops ! They have many services offered with each and every laptop including screen calibration, ram, ssd upgrade, but what caught my attention is that they were offering a Custom Thermal Paste job (Gelid-Extreme) for 65$, i read on few placed the GS75-Stealth had some relatively higher temps, but if i only knew that they are such hobbyists and amateurs i wouldn't have chosen that service !

M laptop arrived like 2 months ago and i have been posting here and there asking about the temps, when playing Doom Eternal, Stress testing, or even playing an android emulator, they the temps would go as high as 99-100c, actually Core Temp wouldn't even read values higher than 100c, so i wouldn't be surprised if it actually went beyond that !!

some of my threads:
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?posts/2003940/
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?posts/1996696/

Here:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-1004f025-5634-4826-b95f-2b60ce954611.png

Also on techpowerup and YouTube..


I was basically asking if my temps were ok or not, most replies were either NOT or GARBAE !

I then started really worrying since when encoding a video using premiere pro would hit 99-100c even in a freezing cold room ! there was just no way to fix that !...

Since then I've been always referring back to them, since they have supposedly installed a Custom Thermal Paste, and from my experience in this area, any custom TP, especially something like the Gelid-Extreme (i used it in the past) SHOULD exceed the stock TP !...

First email:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-34a2dfc1-72f7-46e5-8c11-f390b0b2dc16.png

Here they agreed getting 99c-100c is NOT normal when gaming !:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-77cb5cb2-949f-413b-acf6-30a824a360bd.png

Here they claimed AIDA64 never exceeded 94c when testing my system which they kept stressing about that they have a STRICT Quality Control !!
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-5fc2063a-df35-43f3-9918-3652011cefea.png

My reply to them i get those results with AIDA64:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-aa0247f6-eb45-4512-a967-ef9c62af5661.png

Then they provided test results from similar system claiming it never exceeded 90-94c (i have the pdf with me !)

While you can clearly see temps reaching 99-100c

then they asked me to remove the heatsink and tear down the laptop and see if the thermal paste was applied properly or not !

Since then i didn't do nothing for quite some time because this laptop was my MAIN work laptop and i had no time doing this, also i was really WORRIED doing this because i had little experience doing so...

I decided nonetheless to ask for a refund for 65$ + crappy temps supposedly using a high end Gelid Extreme TP !! because they simply couldn't fix my problem, and i wanted to take my laptop to the service center to look at it ! Shane from HIDE, replied asking for my paypal account and then he vanished into thin air !...

I latter on bought my OWN thermal grizzly TP, reading a lot of excellent reviews about it, it was really costly for a 3g syringe only at around 20$ but supposedly superior to all other NONCONDUCTIVE TP...

I was worried really taking out the MOBO since it was flipped up side down, and i didn't want to screw my 2020 USD gaming laptop, until i finally decided to do so after watching this amazing video:




The job took my 3 Hours of Excruciating pain and worrying, I disassembled the thing with extreme caution:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-ca47fa5a-6835-458d-aca0-5159c31de3e5.png

http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-bda91c3c-b4de-4953-ba13-ec7260b49460.png


Then i was on my own removing the heatsink since there was No tutorial explain how to do it for the GS75, only the GS66, but i didn't need to watch it, i guess it was straight forward, removing 7 screws (one was stripped) but eventually i got it done:


AFTER RREMOVING THE HEATSINKY I WAS AMAZED AT THE CRAPPY REDICULOUS AMOUNT OF THERMAL PASTE APPLIED AND THE JOB OVERALL LOOKED LIKE A PAINT OF A 3 YEAR OLD !!!!

THE AMOUNT OF THERMAL PASTE THEY APPLIED WAS NOT ONLY GENEROUS BUT IT WAS A MESS ALL OVER THE SOCKET AND COMING OUT AROUND THE EDGES WITH TRACES OF THIN LINES HERE AND THERE !!!!

Looking over here it looks like some pouring thermal paste like there is no tomorrow !!
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-7a89aad1-7abf-4ad0-aa36-4395f60ee832.png

the excess thermal paste was really thick coming out from the sides after the removal of the heatsink which is a clear evidence they put a lot of TP material !!

looking here too for both the CPU and GPU showing the paste at some areas even coming out from the socket touching the motherboard, i know its nonconductive, but that an amateur work in my book !!
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-1ce5710f-ab5c-43df-98b2-49f4ec75acb2.png


look carefully at this mess an sorry for the lack of focus from my phone camera !!
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-f0bbaa19-ab51-4e1f-9895-46cea402c721.png


this material was all over the place no wonder the heat dissipation wasn't optimal and extremely inefficient !
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-50526b3a-8fd1-44db-acf4-2887fc5999b3.png


again here is how EXCESSIVE they applied thermal paste it was coming out from the edges:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-2f955720-c78f-4c4b-a2c2-d873b13d373b.png

I even suffered to remove the thermal paste they applied because simply it was too much and it was going inside the pours and little openings and gaps in the heatsink and around the edges of the GPU mostly...!!

here you can see what am talking about:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-79272bae-4175-405f-9ecf-21f202cb0fcf.png

LOOKING AT SUCH DEGREE OF CRAP JOB DONE THEY HAVE NO SHAME TREATING A NEW CLIENTS LAPTOPS AND SYSTEMS LIKE THAT !!!! LET ALONE OFFERING SUCH A CRAP JOB FOR 65$ AND BRAGGING THEY SHIP 70 SYSTEMS INTERNATIONALY A DAY ! ITS UNJUSTIFIBLE BEING ON MSI WEBSITE FOR AUTHORIZED RESELLERS AND HAVING TO DO SUCH A CRAP THERMAL WORK !! ALSO SUCH A TP JOB SHOULD GIVE LESS TEMPS NOT HIGHER TEMPS SO WHATS THE POINT IN GETTING IT DONE THE FIRST PLACE !!

It took my a good 30 minutes cleaning every thing out, using artic silver cleaner and polisher, i applied a 3x3mm of the Thermal grizzly as recommended, i think they must have really huge amount of Thermal Paste they wanted to get rid off !

I then returned everything back, and thank god they system was functional again !

again those are my temps before when gaming using memu emulator reaching 97-99c:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-aa957eb1-b779-45f7-a9a7-59a860aafd24.png

in a very cool room (i was wearing a jacket) but it managed to hit 99c, maybe 100c.

and now it is in 80-94c max !
http://grabilla.com/0aa1b-64c0a94c-e7de-4c6c-bc09-9b4829ebd6a9.png

I was glad to fix my issue on my own, but they made me pay 65$ for EVEN WORSE RESULTS !! and wasted a lot of my valuable time and i even had to open up my own brand new laptop which am not totally happy about !!...

i will never recommend their services to anyone, if one thing i came to know about HIDEvolution is that they are a bunch of Amateurs, and i feel absolutely obligated to shared my experience with everyone out there and with MSI especially, am sure they had done this crap before to other clients (or maybe 70+ clients a day) and MSI needs to know about this and everyone considering them as a provider !


god speed,

 

None of your picture links seem to work for me.

Sounds like you may have had bad contact pressure or a thermal pad wasnt correctly placed, its all it takes for basically any system to be unstable, even more so on these thin laptops.

@Spartan@HIDevolution

 

Thats strange !

I have reuploaded them for you and anyone having the same issue and placed a title on some of them:
https://ibb.co/JmdYfwX
https://ibb.co/HKDpnfM
https://ibb.co/mGgxkgr
https://ibb.co/93H0N60
https://ibb.co/FXbJ6GW
https://ibb.co/0Q7Q5n4
https://ibb.co/0qsXN3k
https://ibb.co/SdH0bmP
https://ibb.co/wz41FZ1

As for the new temps after I fixed it:
https://ibb.co/PWZX1c9

not sure if you are referring to a thermal pad or thermal paste on both the cpu and gpu, the heatsink was fixed properly, but the excessive amount of paste was coming out from the edges which means they probably flooded the chipsets with too much paste, it wasn't pretty to look at, and for sure it didnt perform well !...

sadly they charged me 65$ for a terrible job and i ended up fixing it on my own !

 

Yeah looks to be pretty generous on the thermal paste, which in and of itself isnt exactly a deal breaker generally

Generally speaking if you have poor contact that will cause the issue of hitting TJmax immediately even with lighter loads

Its looking better now but it would irritate me to have a 12c core differential, but its generally why I dont buy these types of laptops in the first place.

 

Excess of thermal paste is only reducing the store profit, because it just oozes out, like you see, nothing BAD in that.
What is bad is the round void in your CPU, indicating that it cooked the paste and the paste pumped out of that spot, coverage seems fine on both CPU and GPU, just buy a thicker paste, clean it all very well and repaste, and stop running torture tests on a thin and light laptop equiped with an 8 core CPU or get used to repaste it once a month.

Post a photo of the whole heatsink, to check for any folded thermal pad, besides that, its not HID blame TBH, unless they lied about the paste brand, because by the pictures it seems pretty runny and everybody says that that paste is pretty thick..

And undervolt your CPU, so it runs cooler.

 

Ive been reading a bit of conflicting info on undervolting 10th gen, is it OEM > Model specific still or is it across the board concerning undervolt capability?

 

With MSI laptops you have to enable undervolting on an hidden menu in the BIOS, but its there and there is no dumb limit like Asus is doing, or just plainly removing the possibility of doing so.

 

Good to know thanks

 

@jojonono

Honestly, it does seem like a lot, BUT that's what happens to Gelid after it's applied. It spreads a lot, so if we put a smaller amount, it spreads to the point where there's none on the die, and temps get even higher. The photos you posted don't look abnormal to me.

We've been using Gelid for quite some time now. So we know how to work with it on specific models. Some need more TIM than others. GELID GC Extreme is not as thick as other thermal pastes such as IC Diamond or PHOBYA NanoGrease Extreme and it is normal for it to spread out that way and that does not impede its performance.

We got 94C on AIDA, which was acceptable for this laptop (thin and light).

We have issued you a refund of $65 USD for your dissatisfaction, we always strive to keep our customers happy and we are sorry you felt this way about your laptop.

 

I have good knowledge how to apply thermal paste, despite all different says and opinions how to do that, most agree that less is more ! i cant say the same how they did it, i spent forever asking about the temps am having, and you replied to some of my threads, i wasnt stressing out as you said, i was mostly playing games such as doom eternal and android emulator (Memu) and as i said again Premiere Pro, the laptop kept triggering core temp limits @ 100c every 15 secs or so, all those problems are a thing of a paste after i reapplied the thermal paste the right way, if gelid extreme isnt reliable for the job, they could offer something better for that 65$ job, no need to ooze out their store profit in my laptop like that and yet FAIL to deliver even an acceptable level of performance ! i think i will stick to the stock thermal paste in the future, coz that thermal job had no advantage from my experience, btw 10875h is locked, and i locked here and there couldnt find out how to access this hidden menu, not for the gs75 stealth. thanks,,,

 

I have responded to your emails saying that aida64 tests go as high as 100c not 94c, and provided you with this crystal clear screenshot:
http://grabilla.com/0aa1c-9e150b6f-6a79-44a7-b0b7-0d9309709f96.png

i think there are better options for 65$ such as Thermal grizzly nonconductive paste (which i used here) or even MX-4 (cheap yet reliable), but its ur call on which paste to use and charge ur customers for !

thanks for the refund but i cant say am happy to open up a brand new 2020$ laptop, cleaning it from the EXCESSIVE paste, and putting it back together by hand !...

 

Thermal Grizzly paste is a worse thermal paste on notebooks with not the best heatsink design.

And you have still 12C between the coldest vs. hottest core. Re-run the test after a week or two. Not so sure it will last long before you see 100C again.

 

i didnt know such a thing existed, i did my research and found it to be the best out there regardless if its for laptop, PC or your toaster, no one said to me its not good for laptops until now ! i thought a good thermal paste is a good thermal paste, maybe you can recommend a good thermal paste designed specifically for laptops then ? otherwise i will stick with this for a while... i wish i stuck with the DEFAULT TP from the manufacturer and didnt have to ask them to replace sh*t, its all on them and their poor work done... the GC Extreme they installed triggered 100c like crazy !....

 

I prefer Liquid metal. But not the best option for heatsink that doesn’t sit well on top of Cpu/Gpu. Other good options in the link http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-gpus-avoiding-pumpouts.833774/#post-11038223

Remember also check if thermal pads isn’t too thick or thin.

Edit. See also this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...nd-apply-traditional-and-liquid-metal.806840/

 

I don't have any of the aforementioned issues with Kryonaut in any of the hundreds of laptops that I've repasted with it (even after months of use), but some users here seem to have worse luck in that regard.

When it comes to excessive thermalpaste, I don't quite worry about that either:


It's not a apples to apples comparison for desktop vs laptop, but too much is far better than not enough.

 

People are eccentric these days with thermal paste, all of them fall in margin of error which makes it more or less a moot point.

In your case it looks as though you didnt have proper contact pressure, which is why your temps would hit below TJmax, most chips last I checked would throttle or shut down at 105c so it looks like MSI put in a limit for 100c. Regardless of thermal paste if you have poor contact you will always have crappy temps.

Also stock paste wouldnt have been much better, its basically a lottery to whether or an acceptable temperature range is present in a system OOB.

A lot of people here have been quite critical when it comes to thin and lights, as they are extremely sensitive and easy to not operate optimally due to being thermally limited right out of the box. As mentioned before 12c core differential still means you have either uneven pressure or a warped heatsink.

I personally use NT-H1 and dont have any issues and its not the best out there, just something I can get fairly cheap at the time.

 

Follow any GS66 undervolting guide, the 4 key combo is easy to find, and order matters, try pressing the 4 keys in different orders, I think F2 is the last key to be pressed..

 

Of all the laptops i've repasted with kryo about 50% start to see temperatures creep up 6 months to 9 months down the road. Others go on to have 2 year+ lifespans

Do you spread it or use a pea/line method?

 

I used to spread but now I do the pea/line method.

 

I also use the pea/line method so that rules out application method as the culprit.

How hot do the laptops you repaste with kryo run?

 

Depends on the laptop/component. I typically buy "thin & light" laptops so they usually run hotter than a full sized, but I've done a few m17s and 51Ms.

 

Tripod or 4 sided mounts? And is the coldplate a solid piece of copper or just a thin copper plate (<3mm)

 

Again, it varies based on the laptop. Here are the laptops that I've repasted with Kryonaut:
Dell Inspiron 13 7373 2-in-1 (repasted 3 years ago and still great)
Lenovo T540P (repasted 1 year ago and still great)
Dell Inspiron 7577
MANY XPS 15 9550s
A few XPS 15 9560s
A few XPS 15 9570s
XPS 15 7590
A few XPS 15 9575 2-in-1
XPS 13 9350
XPS 13 9360
XPS 13 9365 2-in-1
XPS 13 9310 2-in-1
Gigabyte Aero 15x V8
Gigabyte Aero 15 OLED SA
Alienware Aera-51M
Alienware m15 R2
A couple Alienware M17 R2s
Vostro 5590
MSI GS65
MSI GS66
Asus G14
Razer 15 advance
MSI Presige 14
A couple Lenovo A485s

And then add to the list a TON of desktop CPUs and I'd say I've done a few jobs with Kryonaut. To be fair the vast majority of the XPS laptops that I've repasted I did so for customers with the majority of whom I still do hardware support for (friends with businesses). Many other the other laptops I only owned for a few months but used extensively for benchmarking. I typically have 3-5 laptops at home at any given time and alternate between them.

 

My GT75 9SF does 65-68ºC on the GPU, 80ºC when the CPU is dissipating over 70W, 70ºC is the usual temp, Kryonaut on both, lapped heatsinks, because the finish on them was the worse I ever saw on a laptop, pitted and scratched and not even flat, on a freaking 2.6K € laptop...

 

I vote for this comment, i think something is wrong with MSI heatsinks, how could a HS not be flat for a laptop, isnt that a design flaw ?! and how did u work around it especially that ur using Kryonaut like i did ??...

 

this whole thing sounds like rocket science to me ! i installed several heatsinks in the past and even have my old liquid cooled Desktops which i installed on my own, also did dozen of thermal pastes, i dont understand how a gaming laptop could be any different when it comes to screwing the heatsink back on the socket ! i tried my best to screw all 4 screws EVENLY,

Also windows WILL sometimes prioritize some cores over the others so it doesnt necessarily always mean what u suggested, but yes i was playing RE3 shortly, and i do see 12c difference, i followed the suggested TG recommendations of adding 3x3mm (actually probably more) on the CPU and spread it, i think i might open it up soon and add even more thermal material, will that fix the 12c difference ?! i dunno, if it doesnt, probably will do liquid metal or try to udnervolt ...

 

Having a completely flat surface is kind of a difficult feat to be honest, I have also been working on computers for a majority of my life but that doesnt change the fact that thin and lights have a small margin of tolerance when it comes to their systems, they are thermally limited out of the box, you have one bad anything in that mix and your temps skyrocket.

What I suggested has nothing to do with how windows treats a core. If you are benchmarking for the sake of seeing your systems thermal performance then all cores are loaded. If not, its not a benchmark for the performance of the systems thermal solution and therefore has nothing to do with what I said. You have a 12c core differential, this is large.

Throwing on liquid metal isnt a solution to a physical issue of your contact plate, it will only flare up and also dry out the liquid metal. Undervolting will help, but that also isnt a solution either. That is a problem with the manufacturing of that laptop but there is likely nothing you can do about it as its not breaching Tjmax.

 

I lapped the heatsink, since the GT75 heatsink is made of 3 parts, comprised of the CPU heatsink, GPU heatsink and GPU VRM heatsink, its easier to lap the CPU and GPU cooper plates.

To do the lapping I used my kitchen stone countertop as the flat surface and wet and dry sandpaper starting at 200 grit and ended at 1200 grit, took around 3-4h to do both heatsinks, but I have been lapping parts for the better part of 15 years, there is a lot of small tricks and methods on how to hold the parts, as well as knowing how much pressure the sandpaper will take without tearing that lets me do this faster, if you never lapped anything, it might take a novice some 8h to get the results I got..

And yes, I never saw such crappy heatsinks, the cooper contact plate was pitted, I had to sand over 0.5mm to reach a decent surface, and there is still some pitting left over, but I was getting tired of sanding..

 

I see, thanks for the insight...

i have seen this issue before on desktops but my impression was that not all cores work equally...

i will definitely try undervolting soon, but i just didnt like having a silly app like throttle stop keep running in my task bar, so maybe ill undervolt in the BIOS...

also i was really hoping to apply LM at some point, but before that, can i open up the system one last time and apply More krynaut thermal paste ? last time i did it i didn't go cheap on it, but i applied just enough and spread it with the applicator, could adding more fix this difference or make it less worse ...?

 

so i guess MSI makes crappy heatsinks, understood. i dont think i will go through the trouble of polishing or sanding the heatsink sounds like a lot of work for a laptop !

is this the most reliable thread for undervolting an 10875H ?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...trol-of-the-i7-8750h-advanced-version.823065/

i gave it a try but got worse results, or at least didnt notice any change with a 0.50 mV undervolt using throttle stop...

 

You need to unlock undervolting on the BIOS, its on the hidden menus that you access using the 4 key combo unlock..
Follow this video:

 

For the purposes of a benchmark to to determine upper temperatures, no. Outside of that, sure, windows may only use 1 core/thread for background tasks but thats not a benchmark.

TS remembers the configuration, so you shouldnt need to run as a startup program, if if so that option is there as well. Throttlestop is anything but "Silly", its practically one of the main reasons we have options in the first place in the laptop arena.

There is nothing wrong with liquid metal, as anything else, do your due diligence and you will be fine. We've seen many users just throw it on and expect sympathy afterwards because they fried there boards. You will be unlikely to find any here...

 

Yeah their coldplates always looks rougher than other vendors but it's mostly cosmetic and doesn't affect temps much, I've lapped mine so I know. At least they don't have unevenness issues.

Their heatsink designs are much beefier than most brands though which is the most important thing.

 

Funny thing i was just watching that, but despite enabling this last week and enabling the XTU function in the bios (anither video for that same guy showing how) i still see the core voltage grayed out in the intel XTU app, did u face such issue in ur msi ?!...

 

Thats interesting... the utube video i came from actually suggested to create a scheduled task for throttlestop to boot and maintain being minimized the entire time thats why i hated it !... so ur saying i can close TS and it will maintain the undervolt values forever in the bios no matter how many reboots etc...?

 

If u read my thread here am still seeing 12c difference between cores and thanks to some members now this bugs me like hell that the brought it up am sure i will end up using LM at some point, is urs holding up alright on that gs75 of urs ? And do i need to reapply after a while ? Any issues ?!...

 

12°C difference is not out of the ordinary for stock paste. With a good thermal paste you will still get 8°C difference between cores. Only LM can reduce it to 3-5°C delta between cores

And yes, LM is doing just fine on my GS75 though I have already gone through the repasting phases. You'll need to repaste 2-3 times as the LM diffuses into the copper. There's no set time when you need to do so, just repaste when temperatures start to climb again.

And as long as you apply LM properly you don't need to worry about anything.

 

How many times did u repaste LM and in how long ??...

 

I used LM on my gpu so I had to repaste a lot of times so I never saw how long it took for a cpu only LM to degrade. I don't recommend LM on the gpu btw, a high quality paste is within 2-4°C of LM on the gpu. If you want LM performance on the gpu, stick with a mirror finish lap of the heatsink and carbonaut.

 

ThrottleStop has no interaction with the BIOS. If you use ThrottleStop to set your voltages, you will have to run it every time you boot up into Windows. If you do not want to look at the icon in the system tray, you can turn off the icon so ThrottleStop quietly runs in the background. There is an option so you can turn off the majority of monitoring it does and it will consume next to nothing in terms of CPU cycles or memory.

If all you need is voltage control and you have that option available in the BIOS then set your voltages there.

 

Why? TS uses less than 0.1% CPU and on my laptops it uses 3-4MB of RAM, its nice to check my CPU temp by just hovering the mouse on the tray icon, and quickly change profiles between max performance and a power sipping profile for extended battery..
And you need TS to run on startup, or at least open it after booting into the OS, or your undervolt wont be applied.

 

TS barely use 2MB Ram. Not much other useful software on this lavel. @unclewebb

 

No, i was referring to ur cpu, i wont waste time and effort repasting my gpu, i run stable at 70c in the gpu, i can even oc it, just hope LM on cpu wont become a routine task every couple of months or so coz thats a pain in the butt !...

 

ts in system tray is absolutely tolerable ! How to have it there ??? When i used it it got minimized to my task bar (where all windows usually get minimized) and thats annoying for me and it didnt go to my tray, maybe i didnt look well for that option i dunno ...