GT80 questions on bottlenecks and cooling

Hi,

I just caved and ordered a 001 Titan model rather than wait an extra week and pay even more cash for a slightly better cpu.

So I wondered, what is actually the bottleneck in the 001 model if any? From reviews that I've read, there seema to be a general consensus that for gaming laptops, ram abd cpu are usually never the problem but the gpu is. Not read any word regarding hdd speeds either.

Also, as the Titan is 18.3in, I was wondering which cooler it would even fit on, as I only recall seeing 17.3 ones at best which had reasonable reviews. Reading some posts in the lounge also made me wonder if i need an external cooler in the first place, as i opted for copper sinks and thermal paste add ons.

Thanks for any advice you can offer

 

Double 980M SLI maybe very high demanding on CPU. If your CPU can not feed it just in time then you will get "CPU bottleneck".
Depending on the game you may not get the highest FPS possible because the GPUs will be there waiting/idle.
I don't know if the 4720HQ of the Titan-001 will be enough on the long run. Does any one knows? Have any metrics appropriate to make an estimate?
Also, the 4980HQ (Crystal Well) have an integrated Iris Pro 5200. That's fast! Similar to a GTX 560M[1].
It also will achieve higher CPU clock than 4720HQ when overclocking (3 times higher I've been told).

[1] Mobile Graphics Cards - Benchmark List - NotebookCheck.net Tech

 

There is always a bottleneck. Either its your CPU, or your GPU, or any other component. If you have a sufficient CPU performance, your GPU will be the limiting factor.

This is why we hardly call it a bottleneck when using such high end GPUs and CPUs. An actual bottleneck is that which prevents you from attaining playable performance. 4720hq nor 4980hq will be a bottleneck whatsoever to dual 980m.

Personally, unless you want the absolute best performance, 4720hq should be great for gaming. I doubt you will have issues with this CPU even in years to come.

 

^this 100%, i still know of friends gaming on a 2630qm and 580m, playing starcraft and whatnot (which is a moderately cpu intensive game), the general rule i think still stands, games should run find on anything thats "i7" as long as its not a kneecapped ULV. These 47xxhq/mq as well as 4980hq will last quite a while i imagine, will generally outlast the lifespan of the laptop's gpus.

 

Here are some benefits of the 4980HQ against the 4720HQ:
-32% higher on 8-threads "CPU Mark"[1] (10060/7639)
-27% higher on single thread "CPU Mark"[1] (2248/1771)
-115% higher on 3DMark 11 GPU[2] (1957/910.5)
-71% higher FPS on Unigine Heaven 2.1[2] (26.1/15.3)
-3 times more overclock on Intel XTU (600MHz/200MHz)
-Intel vPro Technology
-Intel Trusted Execution Technology

NOTES:
-Same TDP 47W
-$245 more expensive

[1] PassMark PerformanceTest - PC benchmark software
[2] Mobile Graphics Cards - Benchmark List - NotebookCheck.net Tech

 

Technically a perfectly balanced system has no "bottle neck", no one component that improving that will improve performance

However most often it is just more GPU power needed yes.

Remember the 4720HQ is still fairly fast however, 3.6ghz 4 core with xtu tweaking is pretty fast.

 

The problem with the bottlenecking tends to be how the games are developed, that is why there is always a bottleneck somewhere. But both Core i7 and nvidias gpus are so powerful that the bottleneck will shift between games, but it won't be the kind of issue that will prevent you from getting extremely good performance.

So that is why I am against calling it a bottleneck when regardless of the configuration, you get tremendous performance.

And of course in a perfect world we could get a perfectly balanced system where both get pushed to the limit without limiting each other, but that is hardly the case in such a dynamic world hahah or we could attain it, only to loose the balance to a new technology

 

Well every workload has a different balance of CPU vs GPU so there is that too, but you can get fairly close to where it's a very wide bottleneck.

 

Thankfully the GT80 is not using an AMD APU with SLI graphics.

 

True, however my CPU clocked at 4.3ghz helps keep up with my high refresh rate monitor. If going 1440p 120/144hz it is recommended to get as much CPU horse power as possible.

 

I'm relieved to hear that even years down the line the cpu ought not cause too many issues
my old gt70 with i7 32xx and 680m 4gb (that incidentally died playing wasteland 2 due to poor coding) made games like DA:I unplayable.
but i suppose new releases will always have greater demands

 

LOL... that would be an abominable combination, even worse than the msi gx-lines with the kneecapped apu but good gpu's xD

 

Are you getting 4.3GHz on the 4720HQ?
How much demanding is the 120/144Hz (DisplayPort right?) on the 4720HQ comparing with the internal 1080p?

 

No, he is running a different CPU. 4720hq only goes up to 3.6ghz.

Rather than demanding, a higher end CPU allows you to push more frames. It does not increase the load on the cpu whatsoever unless you run low resolutions, that is where you quickly cap the CPU. He mentioned in his post his clockspeed because it allows his GPU to push even higher framerates. So for example if you have a game you push 112fps, with a higher clocked CPU you could reach 120 to fully enjoy the refreshrate.

 

That is a very good explanation. Sounds like that if you are happy with staying at 1080p 60fps, the 4270hq should be fine for the majority of the life of this machine due to 980m sli (assuming the application has an sli profile...damn you Marvel Heroes!)

 

For 1080p 60hz you will be set for quite some time even with the 4720hq at stock.

 

Yeah, that is why I am not worried about 4720hq

And thankfully, even when SLI is not an option, a single 980m is still a powerhouse and considering MSI said they plan to offer up to two additional GPU gens, well I think this machine will last a long while

 

I would recommend those looking to hook up to an external high refresh rate monitor or overclocking the internal panel to think of the higher CPU.

 

How much more heat would OCing the 4720 generate and how much would it impact on its lifetime?
Something I didnt know until reading the replies here was that running lower res (read, low grapgic settings) actually forcea more cpu usage. Interesting find

 

The thing is, when you run non graphically intensive games, without any framecap, you force your CPU to try to produce the maximum amount of frames per second it can muster. When you shift the burden to the GPUs, the CPU might be able to push 100fps but your GPUs can only do 80, so the burden on the CPU is less.

You can "OC" the 4720hq to 3.6ghz and it shouldnt increase temps that much over stock. They can often run both overclocked and unvervolted, resulting in less heat. You could in theory overclock the BCLK but its way too easy to run into issues, because those clocks handle a lot of things.

 

It's complicated! lol
Overclocking's Impact on CPU Life - Overclockers
The big problem is that to be accurate you can only deal with estimates based on statistics of certain product series/technologies.
In this case you need some parameters from Intel Core i7 products, particularly the 4720HQ.
I don't think Intel publish those numbers. Not even the MTBF is available at it's website.
One thing is certain: high temperature will shorten the life of your CPU (any circuit, BTW). To protect it from certain damage you need to cool it properly -- the cooler the better.

 

By "overclocking the internal panel" you mean increasing the refresh rate of the GT80 LCD? How do you do that?

 

Did a test with my 4900mq last night on BF4.

I underclocked my CPU to 3.0ghz X4 cores and check FPS staring at he same object in a full server, alt tabbed out and clocked to 3.7ghz X4 cores and FPS increased only 2 FPS.

Now granted this was in an area of no action or much going on. I am not sure how much of a difference the higher clock would matter in areas of intense action.

I also game on my external 144hz monitor at 1080p.

One thing that did change is my temps. I went from low 60s C to 70s C when clocking the CPU back to a normal
setting.

IMO the 4720hq is adequate for gaming. Both chips are limited to 47w. I am willing to bet the 4720hq will come very close to hitting 4980hq speeds with its unlocked turbo bins. Unless the 4980hq has unlocked TDP I have my doubts about it being able to do much beyond 3.8 to 3.9ghz across all 4 cores when under load.

In order for me to hit 3.8ghz stable across 4 cores in BF4 I have to undervolt to stay under the TDP limitation.

This is why he 4800/10mq is a better investment. The 6 unlocked turbo bins can't be fully used on the 4900/10mq chips.

 

I've been told the 48xxHQ and 49xxHQ would have only 4 and 6 unlocked bins, respectively. Are MQ different than HQ in that matter?

 

No, they are the same. "Only" is a relative term of course.

 

Just physical connectivity where one uses pins and the other uses ball contacts, but everything else are pretty much identical.

 

Thanks for testing talon If you do get the chance to try any intense action 64 player multplayer it would be great, but as you mentioned and found out, I agree with your point of view.

 

I did test with my 4700MQ too OCed vs non-OCed. The only thing I did notice, apart from lower temps as a result of undervolting (XTU tinkering ) is that the minimum framerate was a bit higher and more stable. The game tested was Far Cry 4 with ultra settings and a stock 780m. Minimum fps without OC was around 22. OCing the CPU up to the max allowed by XTU helped keep the minimum framerate to a stable 25 fps. The average fps however saw a lower increase overall from waht I expected, around 35 fps non-OCed vs 38 fps OCed.
The 4930MX is a bit overkill for the GT70/GT60 single fan. To keep it under control on high overclocks you'll have to run your games with the turbofan constantly on.

 

How many bins did you go with the OCed 4700MQ? Did you stay at 3.8GHz? Any thermal throttling after 10min on full load (100% CPU)?

 

Max I can get is 2 bins so the most I get from it is 3.6GHz on single core tasks. The frequency stays pretty stable as after repasting my temps dropped a bit (4°C on average). Also I do undervolt up to -90mV on the dynamic offset voltage so here's another 5-6°C shaved off for a max of 81-82°C during gaming (76° with turbofan on). I've noticed no throttling at all during a 1h testing with XTU so it seems pretty stable for now

 

Very good indeed!
It looks like the GT80 cooling system can safely sustain even higher TDPs.
I think the next generation (GT80) will come even thinner.

 

It's unlikely they will change the casing much since that would require revalidation and design which costs a lot of money.

 

i posted this in owners lounge but after research this looks like a better place to post

Hey guys i just purchased my 001 lastnight and was curious if anyone has replaced the compound yet and seen any good results, i'm considering CLU but im alittle scared to use it. can anyone report the temp drops from stock tim to a high quality tim or CLU? also i've noticed Hidevolution has an option for adding tiny copper heatsinks to the existing surface areas, anyone experience with that leading to temp drops?

Thanks in advanced!

 

I didn't try it yet but if I get one GT80 I will go with CLU.
You must be careful if you've never repasted before. The CPU is soldered and any damage will need a mobo replacement.
BTW, I think the Coollaboratory tutorials are very bad. In one of them they use a cotton swab to spread the liquid over the IHS.
For best results you don't want to contaminate the TIM with residues from anything. So clean it up and use a plastic spatula for the application.
Here are some guidelines for the correct TIM application that I've made:

You must off course also follow the instructions from the manufacturer of the TIM.

 

Apply a thin line of paste and use the pressure of the heatsink to spread it. Spreading it yourself will form air pockets and reduce performance.

 

Indeed that's one of the wrong things I've noticed in the Coolaboratory tutorials.
The TIM layer over the processor must have the right thickness to be spreaded evenly when the cooler is mounted.
Here are the results of some methods of application:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffK7L0Qj13Q
I will have to find the right words for a better "procedure".

 

I used CLU on my aw18 with exceptional results but for it to work I did have to use the included brush to spread as instructed. Use too little and it won't work and you certainly don't want to use too much. It's a very different application and you must be very careful when applying.

 

i've heard that brushing a thin layer over the CPU and GPU dies, then another thin layer over the heatsinks as well, to form a good bond between the two

 

anyone have any before and after a repaste job temps?