GT780DX Upgraded to GTX 980M & i7-2960XM

Hello,

I have done a lot of research before attempting these two upgrades, but I have a few questions so that I can avoid damaging anything, maybe someone here can help?

I understand that the TDP for the 980m is 125W and the TDP for the i7-2960XM is 55W. My current charger is capable of 180W, so I just want to confirm that I am correct to purchase the 230W MSI charger that goes with the GT72 Dominator Pro? Is there anything that I need to consider if using a charger that is not designed for my notebook as long as the voltage is the same?

For someone who has specific knowledge of the parts that I mentioned: my current MSI BIOS version is E1761IMS V1.0B, the 980M is an official MSI card (non-SLI) and as I understand it, this should be plug-and-play. Is there anything else to consider?

If I make sure that the 230W charger can handle the required 180W TDP, is that everything in terms of power considerations? Do the other components have a TDP to consider as well? Is 230W enough or do I need to go even higher?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

IIRC, the 980M has a tdp of 100W, but again, like the 2960xm, if you OC it, the tdp will go up. Other system compenents should amount to ~30W give or take in total power draw, so yes the 230W charger was a good idea.

 

Thank you Grant,

After more research it seems that the MS-1761 (GT780DX) cannot go over 180W - so if I bought the 230W charger, I would see no greater benefit. Can someone confirm this? I am not concerned with overclocking the CPU, and any GPU overclocking would be minor so do you think that the 180W should cover me?

Thanks

 

It would be slim, but it should? 30W+~55W+~100w=185w I don't understand what you mean it can't use the 230W adapter, but the 180 should be alright

 

Due to the EC controlling wattage I think it doesn't go over 180W, perhaps just some Watts.

 

weird.... someone might have a modded bios, but I wouldn't know sorry

 

The GT780DX has something called NOS, which due to the EC firmware limits the TDP...but, I understand that you can go a little bit above 180W if you have the battery attached because it will pick up some extra power from that.. Can anyone confirm this... @Meaker@Sager or @omega939 maybe you can help? Thank you

 

Look through this thread. Might be of some help to you.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/i-just-disabled-msi-battery-boost-hybrid-power-nos.812991/

 

Yes i can confirm that u NEED the 230w power supply. No. There is no problem with wattage over power the motherboard. Or any throddling. I have built over 30 msi gt660 ms16f1 through ms1763 gt70. I have built a gt685 with the 2960xm and the gtx980m. It runs at 4.1ghz with auto turbo. For some reason the turbo button no longer worked maually. We thought this was odd but when it reached 3.8 it auto selected it and the turbo button comes on and it goes up to 4.1 to 4.3ghz . we use core temp to monitor temps and speed. I personally have a gt660 with a 920xm 55w chip and a gtx 880m 122w gpu. That 980m will run about 118 w at peak performance. U should definitely buy the larger power supply because lack of power is a major no no. Just look on ebay for a 230w brick with a 5.5 by 2.5 tip. They are around 35 to 40$.

 

Thank you, but I'm still looking for a definitive answer on this subject. Many people here have told me that my model (MS-1761 / GT780DX) will never draw more than 180W. I think the exception is that because of the NOS feature, it may go slightly over that with the removable battery connected. The 230W charger I'm told will do nothing for me because the system does not know how to use the extra power... unless you know something different? Please describe how the MS-1761 could take advantage of the 230W

 

I have used battery care to monitor the usage of the electricity the wattage, I have used it to monitor that while I was playing games and while idling and it would run somewhere around 111 to 115 Watts at an idle and when I would power up a intensive game it would go up to 187 to 192 Watts. I plugged in the 230 watt power supply and I continue to monitor it and it went all the way up to 207 Watts. There was no issue with the play ability or the availability of power. This was in a MSI GT 685 with the 2960xm and the gtx980m card. That is basically the same exact machine as the GT 780, ms1761 that you have. There was no issue with anything. It's simply allowed the video card to go all the way up to 90 degrees instead of throttling back at 76 to 79 degrees. That video card should run somewhere between 88 and 90 degrees at Peak Performance. You can use MSI afterburner to adjust any settings that are available for that card. I'm not sure how to attach pictures but I can show you a first generation gt660 which is in the same family. With a 920xm and gtx 880m 8 gig video card. Get uses 217 Watts at full power. Any machines I build that I put a 80 series card in I almost always get the 230 watt power supply. I built these professionally and my best friend is a programmer for 3M. We have done our research and have come to this conclusion. You should also invest in the .65 amp fan if you don't have one already. Instead of the .36 or .45 amp fan that comes in those. The 4th generation machines they upgraded the cooling. They created the heat sink that has this secondary arm on it that goes over in connect to the processor heatsink. You should purchase that as well if you're going to put the 980 card in there. They make two versions of it for the 70 series and the 80 series cards. Make sure you get one for the 980 because it is different than the 770. The grid layout of the cooling platforms is different

 

You should have no problem. You have one of the most powerful laptops ever created. The motherboards are such high quality and the Machine is built out of Parts on a different caliber or a different level of performance than standard gaming laptop parts.

 

Thank you for that info. I did buy the heatsink with the arm, designed for the 980m. I will be using Fujipoly thermal pads and Prolimatech PK3 for the GPU and Coolaboratory Ultra on the CPU (I know it is conductive and to be very careful applying it).

I did not know about the .65amp fan, but I will get that and the 230W power adapter because I believe you know what are talking about.

I always understood that this model was capped at 180W, are you able to tell me anything about the "NOS" feature controlled by the notebook's EC firmware?...I will using the latest BIOS and a vBIOS from Svet.

If I can occasionally bounce questions off of you I would appreciate it and will post them here.

Thank you again for the additional information!

 

Google MSI NOS feature and go to the MSI website. It should be easy to find.That only applies to 3rd and 4th generation, MS 1762 or 3 and only certain models like the dominators and the dragon Edition. That feature is not available in your laptop, even when it is available it is to supply more than 180 Watts when necessary. By using the battery and the AC adapter at the same time. There's a list on the MSI official website of all applicable models. It's mostly the GE and GS models some GT 60s and some GT 70s, it's more prevalent in the gt72 in GT80 models. If it is not listed as an option in your bios to turn that NOS on and off, then it is not an option for that machine. I know from experience that those machines will use what power is necessary. I've spoken with professionals other than myself, and we have never had any problem with power. NOS does not limit the power anyway, it is there to help the machine provide extra power above and beyond the 180 Watts when necessary.

 

You have a rare computer right there. It's the first generation 17in, it's special because it is direct video.its the only 17in model they made that way. It has no Intel HD hybrid graphics. Only the gt660 ms16 F1 and ms16 F2 GT680 and the gt780. The first and second generation models do not have Hybrid graphics. I have an MS 1762 gt70 and it has hybrid Intel graphics. You will get better playability and better frame rates and smoother transitions with your machine than I will with mine. Not having the hybrid graphics is a major advantage. The gt780 is the only 17 inch model that they made that did not have hybrid graphics. All the way up to the GT 80 have hybrid Intel graphics. The gt80 went back to direct video and bypass the Intel graphics. They realized that the hybrid graphics was not such a good idea. It works good for battery life but forcing the GPU to go through the CPU limits it. Your machine is video direct to screen or direct to HDMI, the second generation gt70 like mine, has the Intel processor in the middle as a middleman. And it can limit your frame rates and throttle your machine if things are not exactly perfect. I learned that the hard way.

 

Ok, I will get the 230W

 

I love the machine and that's why I'm willing to invest a lot in it. I also bought it on Craigslist for only $100, I got very lucky. The person who sold it to me wanted to upgrade and the only thing wrong with the laptop was that the right side hinge was broken. I have since fixed it and want to turn this laptop into a gaming monster. It is already awesome with a 570M overclocked and 2760QM.

Question: can this machine handle 32GB of RAM? I am currently running 16GB. If so, what kind would you recommend? I think 10600 is the limit, that is what I have now. Thank you for all of your help!

 

Yes it can handle 32GB of ram. It can also handle PC3 14900 1866megahertz Ram. Since u have the 2960xm. 10600 is the base Ram that it can use. I would definitely upgrade the RAM to at least 12800. You also need to be very careful with modding the BIOS. If the BIOS Edition model number that you have is the same as what is listed on MSI website then it is not necessary. There should be no reason to flash the BIOS unless the video card is not recognized. If you purchased an MSI video card not a Dell video card then you should have no problem. The MSI video card will have a number stamped on it like ms10w51, or something like that. If you have issues you can follow the steps to flash the BIOS and it will also Flash the V bios if necessary. As far as I know there's no way to separately flash that V bios unless you remove the card and hook it up to another computer. If it is recognized by your motherboard then flashing either one of those biases is not necessary. It also has to be done from a cold state meaning that it's done from a boot to an external thumb drive not from a executable program. It is very tricky and very risky. I've seen many of them bricked by trying to flash the BIOS and it not being necessary. If you already have the BIOS Edition that is listed as current on the MSI website, and you try and Flash the same addition over it, it runs the risk of bricking it.

 

The best bang for your buck will be Kingston hyperx impact PC3 12800 cl9 Ram. You can pick up 8 gig sticks ordered from Walmart which is about the cheapest, look on their app or on their website and you can pick them up for somewhere around $75 a piece. The 1866 megahertz cl11 Ram will not add as much of a benefit as the price entails. It's just not worth it.

I live in Southwest Missouri and I wish there was some way that I can meet with you and build that. You have the machine that I've always wanted to build. I have built 16 in models of the same generation the same way that you're building that one. I told you about that. And I have built 3rd generation gt70 very similar to that. But I have always wanted that specific machine because it is a rare unique item. In the programming world that machine you have is very sought-after because of its direct video capabilities

 

In all honesty 16 gig of RAM is enough, as long as it's the 800 megahertz or 933 megahertz Ram. Unless you're a programmer or doing very heavy video rendering or program compilation you will never use more than 10 gig anyway. Even the newest games that I play rarely use over 10 gig

 

If we can't meet we can still keep in communication here - I will let you know each step and my progress. It will take a little time for me to get all of the parts together. I will update you with my BIOS version, but I am pretty sure it is not the version listed on the MSI site.

Svet from MSI forums will also be helping me with a custom vBIOS, He has helped me previously with my GTX 570M to change the voltage and overclock it.

Once the machine is built, I am not looking to get too carried away with overclocking, I really don't want to harm any of the components.

I currently have three SATA drives attached to the computer - 6TB of hard drive space. I have ordered the 90% gamut glossy screen as well.

Because it was dusty when I bought it, I of course cleaned it as best as I could but never fully took it apart... would you advise me to fully disassemble it and to clean out all of the dust before the other modifications? I am very tempted to do so..

 

The GTX 980M is an MSI original. It is green and says on it Micro Star MS-1W0H1, it is the 8GB version.

The GPU die says N16E-GX-A1

 

Sounds like you have the right video card. Everything seems to be correct, taking it apart is very easy. The machine comes apart in 13 pieces. As long as you take out the heat sinks and clean all the dust out of them when you replace the CPU and the GPU, that should be fine. And for your information it is not msata compatible. I know they make an msata 2 slot and 3 slot board to go in the hard drive space next to the GPU for gt70, but the connector on the 1st and 2nd generation machines, which yours is a second generation msgt series, is not compatible with the hard drive connector for the 3rd and 4th generation msata boards, just so you know. I have 5 terabytes in mine and it's awesome. I would take the keyboard off and use a vacuum cleaner to suck out the dust from the backside of it. Your fan intake is underneath the keyboard. So it will filter dust through the keyboard.

 

You'll need to check as well once you get it installed because the A1 cards are usually to 4 gigabyte versions and the A2 cards are the larger 8 gigabyte versions, but it should make no difference. You'll rarely use over 3 gigs of your video card to begin with

 

And for your best performance I would really recommend getting a good solid state drive and put it in the zero slot next to the battery. That's the slot that it likes to have the solid state drive in. It lists the slot next to the battery as 0. the slot next to the GPU as 1. the esata on the back as 3. and the DVD drive slot as 4. Since you have the extreme processor and the extreme graphics card you will really need the solid state drive in order to bring the computer up to full power. On a standard hard drive I've noticed that they only run at 75% of capability.

 

And when you install Windows you need to make sure that you get the correct system control manager program and the correct Nvidia overclocking tool program to match the video card. If you're not familiar with MSI products they require the system control manager and the overclocking tool in order to utilize the bezel buttons and other functions. When you go to install your drivers install the CPU first and then the graphics card and then the system control manager program. The system control manager is required for many other functions. It's required for the killer light manager and other such things.

 

Be careful with the 2960XM "overclocking" since I think it's disabled on that platform. If I remember correctly second gen MSI laptops were locked out from being able to overclock the XM chips. This may have changed or was only on the 15.6" platform, but I do remember this being an issue.

That said you should download Throttlestop or Intel XTU as I think the 2760QM has a few unlocked turbo bins for overclocking anyways. I think you get 2 or 300Mhz free just by upping the turbo bins.

Edit never mind that was 3720,3740,3820,3840 and 4th gen QM that had the unlocked turbo bins.

 

Yes manual overclocking is disabled. As I mentioned before in another post the turbo function becomes Auto. The turbo button no longer works manually. I have tried everything to get it to work including reinstalling everything. But, the kicker is that it is auto clocking. When you reach the limit of that 2960xm, about 3.8ghz, it will automatically turn on the turbo if you need it. I know this from experience because that chip and that unit was used to run 50 cellphone emulations and it would Auto overclock itself up to 4.1 gigahertz.

 

You can use XTU for the extreme i7s. and you should be able to adjust multipliers. That will give you your overclocking. But it's really not necessary.

 

Really, the 3840qm has unlocked turbos bins? I have that in my gt70 and it goes up to 3.8, I've been curious if it was able to be overclocked. Totally unnecessary but thought I might Tinker with it anyway. I know I won't break it. What programs do you recommend or say that will adjust multipliers, or unlocked turbo bins? I'm not familiar with that except on the extreme chips

 

I will try the Intel XTU program for the third generation, I just never tried it because it was not an extreme chip, I have used it on the second generation 2960xm and the first generation 920xm. It works like a charm

 

The BIOS I have is v. 2.10.1208 (E1761IMS.10B, Build date: 08/15/2011 10:10:10). MSI website seems to have a 10H version dated 10/28/2011. So am I looking at a BIOS flash then?

The EC version is 1761EMS1 v. 4.18, Build date 08/16/2011

...I really hope my A1 card is 8GB of RAM, it was sold to me as being 8GB and has 8 VRAM Samsung chips that I can see

I was planning to put a Solid State and will put it in the 0 port - would like to keep 2 TB if I can manage it, but if I attach a drive to the eSATA port at the back how high can I go? Maybe I'll put a nice Samsung EVO of 500GB in the 0 slot and then have 4.5TB internally and another 2TB/4TB externally. Is there a limit in terms of total drive capacities?

 

You just need GPT filesystem for drives over 2 TB. MBR is restricted to 2 TB per drive.

 

I always use GPT, but if I have 4.5TB internal and then another 8TB connected by eSATA the OS can read all of it?

 

In theory yes. Everything listed is correct. You can attach as big of a hard drive is you wish to the esata port. And I have put a 5 terabyte internal drive along with a 1 terabyte solid state drive in the units before without issue. As far as it goes on the BIOS issue I'm not sure that you would need that bios because you have an actual 780 dxr and that is added support for the 783. I would say that the BIOS flash is not necessary. If the machine currently works then I would leave it as it is. Unless you run into a problem installing the 980m card then you may have to do a bios flash which will also do a v bios flash at the same time. It will make sure that everything matches if necessary. Normally being that the 980m card is GM 204 architecture you should have no problem. And since you got the MSI card it should just be plug-and-play. On everything.

An added note when installing RAM, you may have to stack the ram, if you're not familiar with that you'll need to put one ram stick in the bottom bottom slot, which is number one. Then turn on the machine and let it register that Ram, then remove the keyboard and install your second stick on the left side which is slot number two. Then turn the machine on and let it register, then turn it off. Remove the battery each time when you're installing RAM. Then install the third slot on the bottom top slot. Then turn it on Let it register. Then install the last number four slot on the right hand side under the keyboard. You may need to do this in order for it to register all of the ram correctly. It's the only bug that I found with that motherboard. Sometimes it requires stacking the ram in order for it to read all of it. If you install four RAM chips and turn it on sometimes it will not come on or will not register, and sometimes it will come on but only read the first slot.

 

Ok, but if I remain on the older BIOS could I miss out on some features/functionality?

Thank you for the additional info on stacking the RAM, I will do that

 

No. Unless you plan to use a raid 0 setup on your hard drives or something. I can't see that it would make any difference. Someone else may have more experience with that specific issue than I do...but I've not run across the need to flash a bios at all except on a first-generation unit. So that it would use a modern 880m card.

 

You mentioned earlier buying the charger that goes with the gt72 Dominator Pro, I believe those have a different tip, like an HP. The GT80 also has a different tip. You will just need to find a 230 Watt hp or Delta power supply that either has an adapter or has the tip that goes to 5.5 mm by 2.5 mm because that is what the plug is on your gt780

 

Ok, I'll have to give some thought whether to update the BIOS or not. Svet at MSI recommended I should, but I think I will try to boot it up with the card and see if it is recognized. Would prefer not to flash if I can avoid it.

 

that charger with the correct tip is hard to find, if you cannot find a 230 watt charger with the 5.5 by 2.5 tip then you can get an adapter like this on eBay to make a 230w hp or Delta MSI gt72 charger work for your application

 

And you should know that svet over at MSI is just another enthusiast. He sells unofficial modded biosas. They are not supported or MSI official. They are custom and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. But he gives you a disclaimer right there that states if you mess up your machine it's your fault. I would only use official bios is provided by MSI. I've never had any other reason to use anything else.

 

I was inclined to use Svet's BIOS because he can make tweaks to prevent the GPU from throttling.. but with the new info here I will try to make the best call.

 

Afaik you never get 980M to work without modified BIOS, even GT70 0Nx does need a modified BIOS to get 980M (and even 1060) to work.

 

You do not need a modified bios, I have put the 980m directly into an ms16 F2. Which is the 16 inch version of the same computer you have. There have been 980ms put in 780 dxr and they do not require modded bios. You just need to make sure you find the correct driver. . As long as you're using an MSI brand video card. Not a Dell or Clevo video card it should be Plug and Play

 

I have a GT 70 0nC and a GT 70 0NE. I also have a ms-16 F1 and an MS 16 F2. I did not need to modify the BIOS in any of those except for the ms16 F1 first-generation in order to make it use the gtx880m 8 gig video card. Any other modifications to those others as long as I stayed in the correct Nvidia architecture platform for each model I was able to Plug and Play the appropriate video cards. That's a whole nother list of questions but not applicable here. You're dealing with the 980m which is backwards compatible to g k 104 g k 106 g f 116 and so on. The GM 204 is mostly backwards compatible with all units

 

Yes I understand. If I use Svet's help it would only be to get better efficiency out of the card - lower temps, less chance of throttling, etc.

But it seems that what you are saying is that the card + cpu shouldn't throttle if I get the 230W adapter. All of this is new information to me.

I trust Svet's expertise to maximize the card, I have worked with him before...but first I will make sure the card POSTs with my current BIOS.

 

That is exactly what I'm saying. We had a throttling problem out of the 2960xm with the gtx980m in a ms-16 F2 machine. That is the 16in equivalent of the gt780. It is the GT 680. They are basically identical machines only different in size. The motherboards are interchangeable all of the hard drive parts are interchangeable everything speakers everything is interchangeable. It's simply the case size and screen size that is different. Once we acquired the 230 watt power supplies for the machines that we were building with extreme processors and video cards we no longer had throttling issues.

 

Not sure where "sometimes work sometimes doesn't work" came from, but Svet's standard warning is "use it at your own risks", and his tool and mods have been proven to work all the time and had rarely caused any failures.
He does not release experimental features to users unless they requested it and agreed to the terms "use it at your own risks". Anyone can trust his expertise to make your system runs leaner and better.
There are companies who also employed him to create custom-made BIOS for their products.

 

Yes, I have been very happy with Svet's work in the past. @AdamManMsi - before changing the vBIOS I will make sure the card POSTs and do some general stress testing on the system.

 

Yes, I wasn't up to date - info can be found, for example here: https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/8272-gt780dx-and-upgrade-to-the-gtx-9xxm/