GS65 throttles, tricks and thoughts on WS65

So, I bought the GS65 to use as a mobile workstation for high performance computing. It's the most usable laptop with a good GPU that I could find. Mostly, I run Linux on it and occasionally boot it into Windows 10, mostly for productivity uses.

I saw the announcement of the MSI WS65 workstation, with the i9 and the Quadro P4200 the other day. That sounds really great to me, but I'm thinking this over carefully.

After repasting and doing some rounds of testing on the GS65, I am finding the following basic truths:

1. The GPU power limit throttles long before it hits thermal max.
2. The CPU thermal throttles quickly and before it hits power max.

After many rounds of testing, that's what I got. Weirdly enough, "cooler boost" aka, "screaming fans" mode, does little to improve things versus auto fan mode.

The only way to increase GPU scores is to remove the power limit. Not sure how that's implemented in the GTX1070 Max-Q, but it isn't easily tweakable. One could probably locate the current shunt on the mobo and short it. But that's a different thread. It is what it is.

Focusing on the CPU side, the issue is heat removal. With 12 threads, the CPU heats quickly. The factory paste job wasn't bad actually. The real gain would likely come from some careful machining of the cooler to mechanically close the gap at the CPU. The GPU fits nice and tight, the CPU had more goop on it, a sign that the mechanical fit could be tighter. Various youtube and other images showed the same as mine in the GS65, thin paste on the GPU, thick paste on the CPU from the factory. It's not over-application, it is mechanical gap being filled. Liquid metal would fill the gap the best, short of doing some filing on the cooler and support. If you want to be conservative, just LM the CPU.

One curious thing I found: CPU benchmarks improve considerably when the GS65 is held a few inches off the desktop, allowing much greater air circulation.

Bottom line: Buy a laptop stand or prop it up on something and let it breathe freely. Safer, easier and cheaper. I'm finding Cinebench CPU scores go up 50-100 points by simply elevating the laptop. With the GS65 elevated, my CB CPU scores are in the 1170 range consistently. No tweeks to voltage. Just out of the box software/bios. Heck, CPU work is faster on this laptop than my 3-year old skylake workstation.

While I'm eyeballing the forthcoming WS65 with the i9 and the Quadro, the issue that jumps out is that the i7-8750H is thermally throttled in this laptop platform already. Putting the i9 seems great, but if it can't breathe, it really isn't going to do much good. Likewise, the Quadro GPU (virtually the same as the GTX1070) if also power throttled, isn't going to gain me anything.

I understand the GS65 is a gaming machine first and foremost. But the cooler is a bit overkill on the GPU, since it is power throttled long before thermals kick in, and the CPU is under-cooled. Balancing the cooler sizes a bit more towards the CPU would make it perform better, and likely cost nothing on the GPU performance. But that would be more important to people like me, who are using the CPU a lot for work tasks, rather than gaming.

Cliff Notes:
1. Raise the GS65 off the table and orient the power cable towards the keyboard so the fans can move maximum air to improve CPU performance.

2. GPU is power-limit throttled, not thermal.

3. CPU thermal interface is where gains are to be found, if you want to risk it.

 

Don't even touch the WS65. It's a BGA turdbook. The only MSI workstation worth touching is the WT65, which is actually LGA, which means it would take an 8700K or 8086K no problem. The only question is would MSI provide bios support for the 9900K or not, since that's the CPU people actually want now.

Liquid metal would not fix the problem. The problem is that the CPU heatsink is CONVEX while the GPU heatsink is FLAT. So of course you need more paste. In fact using LM would actually make the problem worse because you would wind up having two cool cores and two hot cores (usually the cores closest to the VRM's if the heatsink is lifted up slightly by having to cool the VRM's on that side!). The *ONLY* fix to this problem on the CPU is to sand the heatsink flat on the BGA turd versions, and then to reduce the thermal pad thickness on the CPU VRMs and chokes, so that the reduction in pressure by that side of the heatsink resting on the VRM's is ALSO reduced (This is safe to do. I've done it).

Having a LGA laptop fixes this problem because then the heatsink would HAVE to be machined differently to fit on the LGA heat spreader, rather than the BGA turd. So if you want a laptop without heat problems, buy the LGA MSI, not the BGA turd. So buy the WT65.

Of course you're still better off getting a Clevo P870 Tm1 with a Prema Bios, from HIDevolution, if you want all that CPU power without any chance of throttling and the best cooling, rather than the MSI. But if you must choose a MSI, don't buy BGA. Buy LGA please.

 

Did anyone tried to use thermal pads in the rear side of the cpu/gpu as this buddy did in his Matebook?

http://bradshacks.com/matebook-x-pro-throttling/

 

To be fair, the CPU scores of the GS65 are quite good in reality. I have a desktop machine with an i7-6700k and it only gets 900 on Cinebench CPU, while the GS65 easily gets to 1100, if not more. The desktop is loaded with 1080ti's though. Of course, the real heavy lifting work I do is off-loaded to cloud where the Voltas are.

For a 4lb, slim and easy to carry notebook, that's pretty darn good. In no way should this be considered a put down of the GS65. The fact that it is a good overall notebook and has enough GPU that I can get a little work done on the go, makes it well worth it. I'd prefer it with even more toned-down looks and honestly it were as sturdy as my Macbook Pro 15 (late 2013), I'd be even more happier.

My skepticism is for the upcoming WS65 actually delivering anything with the higher-spec CPU and GPU vs. the GS65. We'll see, but given the how the limits are already being hit in the GS65, I tend to wonder.

I can't honestly see myself running around airports with a 9-10lb heavy and thick laptop like a Clevo anymore. I'm getting way too old for that. Did my time with lunchbox computers years ago, when that was the best you could do.