Caution when ordering upgrades with your laptop: A Recent Upsetting Experience

RESOLVED


Hi,

This is my first post here but I feel like I got screwed a bit by XoticPC. The post is very long and detailed, and I have numerically labeled the issues I ran across so that I can expand a bit more on their resolution/irresolution at the end.

So a little over a month ago, I placed an order for a MSI GT60-2OD. I was pretty excited as I was long overdue for a new machine - my desktop was still powered by an aging Q6600, and my laptop, an Asus U46, only had a GT540M.

As this was going to be a DTR, I decided to splurge a bit and got upgrades across the board:

-i7-4700MQ to a i7-4800MQ
-16gb of ram to 32gb
-LCD panel upgrade to the 95% gamut NTSC panel (which according to Windows is a Thinkpad panel)
-Bigfoot 1202 for a Intel AC 7260 (I don't game on wireless, so thoroughput+BT was higher on the priority list)
-Opted to NOT have a 2.5" 1tb mechanical drive (the salesperson told me that they usually got Seagate drives, and I am not a fan of their products)
-I kept the 128gb SSD because the salesperson told me that the SuperRAID 2 module would be missing if I didn't option it with an SSD - frankly speaking, this seems kind of hogwash, but I just shrugged it off and relegated it to a RST drive.

After receiving the product, I noticed immediately that there were some external blemishes, but because I was glad to have a new machine, I overlooked what I had considered to be superficial imperfections.
These imperfections were:
1. The webcamera being off centered
2. The glossy trim above the keyboard was scuffed in the center
3. The flathead screwdriver inserts for the keyboard were slightly damaged
4. The corners for the LCD bezel were slightly loose.

As I had previously bought 2 hard drives, a WD Blue 1tb Sata3 drive (new model, no idea if it's any faster than the Sata2 version), and a Mushkin Atlas 240gb (the older model with Toshiba chips, not the newer Deluxe version with the supposed equally specced chips), I went to work installing them after wiping the original drive clean.

When I had finished installing the drives, I noticed the following:
5. The 2.5" drive had no other retention mechanism in place other than the friction provided by the connector.
6. The bottom panel wasn't flush and I had to carefully reinsert it to give it a proper fit.
7. The philips screws, that were all black, had signs of slight discoloration (the shiny metal was showing) - in other words, slight signs of stripping.

I then went to work installing Windows 7 and realized that:

8. The Intel wireless drivers for the AC 7260, from the Intel website, didn't work on 7.

So I aborted that idea and reinstalled Windows 8.

Now each of these issues, alone, or even a few of them, were things I could overlook/ignore, but it felt like there were so many little minor issues and problems and it kept nagging at me, and I think that anyone who drops 2.6k (3.1k after taxes and shipping - not including the 2 hard drives I bought seperately), would be entitled to a machine mostly free of defects.

The mechanical bay, lacking retention mechanisms, really started to irk me - so did what every researcher who has an internet connection does, I googled pictures. I noticed immediately that most pictures had some kind of stopper or metal clip to hold down the drive.

So I fired up chat and started talking to a rep. He told me that there should have been rubber stoppers in a bag in my large box: 2 problems. Firstly, I never found anything in my box other than: 2 styrofoam end pieces, one bag with the MSI driver disk and warranty cards and sticker, a piece of paper from XoticPC thanking me for my purchase, the laptop, 2 felt-like material hoods - one for the entire laptop and one for the screen, and a few expanded foam inserts. Secondly, I threw away the box. I thought to myself, well, there was always the possibility that the stoppers were in there, but then all the other issues I ignored started to pop up.

I told him that I had thrown away the box after thoroughly inspecting it, and he replied that I should ask technical support to see if I could get some replacements.

I asked him about the off-centered webcam: it was supposed to be centered. He asked if it was possible to re-center it from the front - an impossibility since it was protected by plastic. After these two fairly crappy replies, I started to fume.

So I went to their support message system and put in a ticket about the camera and stoppers. He asked me for a picture of the camera so I snapped one off and sent it in. His response was along the lines of:

... What?

Well, I don't have any guitar picks, but I do have very fine finger nails. Since the corners, as I mentioned earlier, were somewhat loose, I easily inserted my fingernail and was able to pull apart the corner. And what I saw pissed me off. The corner retention mechanism on this machine is, as with most screwless plastic molds, snap in. The snap in for this this model is three parallel plastic hooks, and they were all bent. And you could tell it had been forcibly bent because they were no longer black, but white.

I traded a few e-mails with one of their tech support guys and also included some pictures. I got more and more frustrated along the way and started also pointing out the issues I numbered above (except for 6&7). Most of there were never responded to. His final response was that he would look into seeing if he could issue me replacement stoppers. A week went by with no further communication, so I sent an e-mail asing about the stoppers. It's been over a week since then.

Here is the expanded list of what is wrong, including probably more detail than you'd want to know:

If you've read the entire post thus far, or at least the expanded list of complaints, you'd notice a trend. The damage to the computer all involve some sort of upgrade. On the other hand, you could always claim that I damaged my machine myself. Or you could even maybe make the claim that MSI delivered a fairly blemished laptop, except that MSI has no reason to remove the keyboard or access the screen, etc... And if it had been MSI, it'd be something more akin to me receiving a machine that had already been used and abused.

This whole ordeal has left me feeling soured as I expected more from such a highly recommended company. I mean a lot of these problems, on their own, is really just nitpicking, but as a whole, something is wrong. I hate to say it but whoever worked on upgrading my computer has absolutely no delicacy or attention to detail. And then the response to my inquiries have been essentially mute and non-responsive.

You're probably wondering why I haven't simply returned the unit, well there are a few reasons to that:

Firstly, by the time I got fed up with the issues, 2 weeks had passed and another 2 weeks waiting on a reply for some fabled rubber stoppers: the 30 day return limit had expired.
Secondly, the return policy, with XoticPC for MSI machines has a 15% restocking fee.
Thirdly, returning would have been at my cost.
Fourthly, I would have had to file a bothersome import tax refund.
Fifthly, I don't "want to return the machine for a refund"

Don't get me wrong, this is not a buyer's remorse thing going on here. I want this machine: I had been looking at the GT60 series since over a year ago. And I'm not about to shell out over 500$ to correct problems that should never have been there in the first place.

*Major Update 1*
I was contacted by Tanner and through almost 40 e-mails, decided it was best I sent the machine back to get it serviced. XoticPC has offered to pay for shipping both ways via International Ground. Estimated turn around time after receiving the machine was quoted to be 3-5 days.

I had offered to put down a full security deposit if it was possible to get a cross-shipment but it was declined on the grounds that they would not be able to get a 2500$ charge approved for such purposes. For reference, my original total purchase cost (what I paid to XoticPC) was 2697$: cost breakdown was roughly 2500$ for the system itself, 120$ for express shipping, 80$ for rush build and white glove packaging.

I was asked me to remove the ODD, to facilitate customs, probably due to FCC regulations regarding lasers. I had also stripped out my 2.5" mechanical drive as well as my own SSD - the original 128GB Sandisk SSD is still in the machine. The machine was packed into the box of a Asus U46, foam inserts attached to each end and packed into the box of a Viewsonic VX922. Finally filled with peanuts and closed with copious, although not excessive, amounts of packing tape.

I posted the machine on 10/9/13 via FEDEX and estimated arrival date is the 18/9/13.

*Added more pictures of issue 3, updated issue 4 for clarity, and issues 6 and 7 with pictures.

The machine was replaced and shipped back to me on 23/09/13, arrived 08/10/13 and received 11/10/13

 

Thanks for sharing your story, and I can definitely sympathize with you. I would be upset if my system arrived from a re-seller in that condition.

 

Possibly their skilled monkey have a day off.

Are all those powder-ish debris there when you first get the machine? I read #1 thinking OP is over reacting but #2 is just way too ugly.. yea and the rest just add up.

Your config is actually one that they make some profit , they should had put some one skilled on it ...

 

That's not what upsets me most. The follow up is what disappoints me even more.

Perhaps more irksome is the fact that I know my own handiwork easily surpasses these kind of amateurish/negligent mistakes.

No, that's just dust. The pictures were taken with a macro lens less than three inches away - tends to pick up everything detail wise.

What gets me about the camera is that they pretty much told me to fix it myself. That's great, except with the LCD bezel, with those kind of mangled clips, is asking for something to break - I also notified them of this issue after being told to do it myself - didn't bother replying to me after that e-mail.

If I could have ordered a barebones machine and build it myself, I would have done it in a heartbeat.

 

Ask for a replacement or file a complaint with the BBB or something. If you order a new laptop it should definitely be in new condition.

 

Powernotebooks and GentechPC are the best options when buying from retailer these days

XoticPC is very negligent lately, i ordered a msi machine few months ago and while ordering it was said that it will come with IC Diamond Thermal paste ($50 application fee normally) but on arrival my machine was overheating very badly, 96C within minutes on GPU
So i decided to re-paste it myself thinking maybe they applied it improperly.. however after opening and taking off my heatsink, there was a thermal pad on GPU, Yes Thermal pad.. Not exactly what they promised, when you pay for something its your right to have that thing, and if they dont, they should pay that part back atleast.
However i applied IC diamond myself and after that i tried contacting sales representative and there was no reply from them for 10 days, then i contacted technical assistance, they would not discuss it at all.
There were also very minor scratches near Touch panel but instead of having the hassle of sending it back i decided to keep it,

This should not be their attitude, least they can do is to be helpful in communication

 

I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far as of yet. Might end up filing a complaint if this week goes by. Unless by some miracle they decide to pay for shipping as well, getting a replacement would be a hassle.

While I had considered these other two, I didn't realize that Xotic would bludgeon my system together.

Now I'm kind of curious as to whether they pasted my CPU/GPU properly, especially since I got a CPU upgrade. My temps are quite in line with what the Ryzeki's review of his own GT60. Plus I can only find my tubes of Arctic Silver 3 and 5 - can't seem to find my multiple tubes of my newer Noctua NT-H1.

While I've seen my CPU temps hit 94, my GPU, also loaded in the same situation, was I believe at 85ish. It's annoying that I don't have as much control over the thermal properties of my computer as much as a desktop - already screwed around with undervolting (think it might be stable at -150mV) but it's not nearly as noticeable like on the old Centrino where you could literally shave off 300mV and still be rock solid.

 

I am sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, specially since the laptop is quite awesome. I do recommend undervolting, at least for the CPU. It helps shave off some degrees. I also recommend using pherein's fan tool so you can make your own fan profile, it has helped me greatly reduce average temps, at the cost of higher fan speed and thus sound, without reaching max speed.

my average light game hits me 60s degrees for cpu and gpu. medium intensive in the 70s range and intensitve games in 80s range of temps. I hit 92 on my GPU if the game is very intensive and I am using stock fan profile without turbo boost. The temps I mentioned first are with my fan profile.

I have to mention though, my camera is off center too and I did not upgrade my LCD nor my bezel is open or damage, it came from factory like that. it doesn't bother me but I sympathize with everything going on. I helped Captmario to get his machine up and running so I know it can be frustrating to order a new notebook and after upgrades, receive it like that.

 

I ordered from pro-star because of your review. I was debating to order from them or Xotic. Your review and also how much I see pro-star mods on this forum.

 

Quick question: which profile is used for the GT60-2OD? I believe I read somewhere that the fan never hits her top speed, by default.

I've done profile edits before on for nVidia GPUs, great for making sure the thing stays quiet and only ramps up (and super aggressively too) when it's actually needed. Only problem with these kinds of things is when the temp probe fails - I had this happen before and the GPU cooked itself while under load. When the probe failed, I had to manually change the fan speed, except the fan controller eventually died as well - probably due to thermal damage.

If that's the case then that's fine with me. Edited post above to reflect the fact that the camera placement is probably from the factory.

One less thing to worry about. But it still doesn't fix my mangled bezel.

 

Thanks for posting! I was thinking about getting an upgraded MSI too from XoticPC but not anymore... That's terrible service and I sure don't like their 15% restocking fee for a customized system. I'll get a custom 2014 MSI laptop from somewhere else in the future. I never had problems like this with Dell, but nowadays Dell is too expensive to buy their warranties.

 

1. Do not buy upgrades from a reseller if can do it yourself. You already know that but for example RAM upgrade would be the same or cheaper than their price. Plus you have OEM 16GB which came with laptop.
2. ALWAYS inspect new things calmly, without all that exciting which you have when get шею Like it is not your but someone else's. Only this way you can check what is wrong and decide what to do.
3. ALWAYS remember about return time limit. Their late response is not an excuse for extending it.

 

Sound advice, though not always helpful.

1. Buying aftermarket ram would have cost me as much as what they were charging.
Buying a 4800MQ to install myself would have cost me twice as much, although I would have had a 4700MQ spare.
Intel AC 7260 was (and I think might still be) OEM only
Didn't bother checking for a panel though

On the other hand, I told them to strip the 1tb drive and installed my own 1tb drive and 240gb SSD - I couldn't tell them to remove the SSD because I would then be lacking a 3xmSATA to 2xSATA adapter.

2. I did inspect the machine, and at first I dismissed the superficial scratches as just being that, superficial.
I didn't realize the lack of hard drive stopper until I received my ODD to 2.5" kit.
I had no reason to crack open the LCD bezel until they told me to, although to be fair I did notice that they had some play.

3. If I had returned it within the time limit, I would be out 375$ on restocking, would have to apply for a tax refund for 400$, would be out the 10$ UPS bond fee, would be out the 120$ shipping cost, would be out my own return shipping cost, would be out the 80$ Box+express build option.

My total losses would have been 585$ not counting return shipping, which would run me another 50-100$, and waiting 6 weeks to get 400$ back from my government.
I am not spending 600$ to "return" a machine so that I can turn around and buy the exact same thing elsewhere.

 

There is a modified EC with a different fan profile floating around I believe or you could download the fan control tool and set it yourself.

 

You should post all this in the reseller feedback forum, perhaps some xotic rep will notice, at least buyers should know what they're getting into before spending 3k

 

Yea, this is why I spoke to my reseller representative for months before my purchase. When I got my laptop it was mint condition. After working all summer to afford it, if that were to happen to me I'd flip. I have noticed alot of bad news from Xotic lately. I am very glad that I went with Gentech, who were also cheaper than them aswell. Sorry to hear of your grievances though I don't even want to imagine what that must be like.

 

I am very sorry to hear that op did not receive a response from our service team that is never our intention. I can assure you that we are working on a solution right now. We will be in contact shortly with the options to get this taken care of and we will do what we can to make this right

We do not tolerate any of our Service personnel to not reply to a customer nor any of our technicians to not treat each and every machine with the utmost delicacy. Our sincerest apologies again for this and we will do everything in our power to make it right with you, bottom line.

 

TBH I am pretty much seething with anger on this issue. I have to rewrite posts multiple times, to censor myself, in order to retain any semblance of remaining civil. So please excuse me if my replies/e-mails are curt.

 

My experience with xoticpc has been a very positive one last few times. their rep was also helpful. replied within a few mins via email. This is an unfortunate situation. Hope xoticpc and OP patches things up soon.

Would also like to say what James D said. Everyone should think about this.

 

I am sure they will take care of him. This is one of the most operated forum today's date and nobody wants a bad picture in their company, reflecting their future business.

There is no point in me telling you what you should have done and what you shouldn't, everyone learns their lesson from the mistakes / decisions they are making and now you are aware of them.

Atleast, they could now send you those new parts as replacement if sending it back / having it fixed by them, is out of question due to expenses involved and have the machine fixed by yourself.

Best of luck!

 

We have reached out to the customer immediately and awaiting a reply from the OP from an email later last evening. Again we are deeply sorry for the inconvenience and frustration this has caused. We have never, nor ever will hide from issues and not take care of a customer. Although I wish we were a company that never made mistakes we take accountability for any mistake and will do everything we can to make it right with the customer to make up for it.

 

I'm not quite sure what other options I had other than filing a complaint with the BBB or calling my credit card and putting a hold on payment.

I suppose I could have used other mediums other than their ticketing system or e-mail; but for the record my work hours suck and usually by the time I'm done work I can only reach their voicemail. However, if I'm being ignored through one medium, how can I put much faith in another?

Also, before I escalated to their tech support, I was told by a sales rep that if I wanted to send in my machine to fix a the off-centered webcam (which for the sake of transparency, may or may not be normal) - I'd be probably be on the hook for shipping. Now it's one thing to be told you have to pay for shipping for a warranty issue that was not in their control, it's another to be asked to pay for shipping because of negligence. *It never escalated to this point because tech support had stopped replying to my e-mails well before discussion of this possibility arose.

Perhaps my bias is blurring my hindsight, this is not sarcasm or me being facetious, but what other realistic options/actions could I have taken?

On a different note, things appear to be in the pipeline to get this situation resolved.

*addendum for clarity

 

Indeed.. replacement should be demanded and BBB should be notified. . No new system should have one scratch, defect or anything off center. You also should not have to jump through hoops trying to get this fixed to your satisfaction.
Years ago, I had a bad experience with your reseller. Then I found the finest company for all my notebook needs that treats you like family to make sure you are happy with your purchase. Best wishes and keep us posted as to your progress with this situation.

 

We have been working on fixing/replacing the notebook at absolutely no cost to the customer. This is not something typical and we are doing whatever is needed to make it right and get OP a perfect, flawless machine!

 

The laptop is in transit back to XoticPC for repairs. I have updated additional information in the original post (issues 3,4,6,7). It has also been updated with what has transpired since being contacted by XoticPC agent Tanner.

Due to file attachment limitations, here are additional pictures of issue #4


Insert 1 is not damaged, but is scratched.
Insert 2 is indented - I apologize for the blurry picture, but Insert 3 suffers from the exact same kind of damage
Insert 3 is indented near the insert
Insert 5 has a small chip, similar to Insert 4 in the original post

I have also noticed several quirks with my machine, although I'm not sure if they're hardware related: mainly because I haven't had time to diagnose the problems further:

1. I can crash my machine while trying to enter the bios by repeatedly hitting the delete key. If it doesn't crash, the laptop's keyboard has a high chance of being non-responsive.

2. When booting up with a HDMI device attached, sometimes it fails to detect the sound device of the HDMI device. This isn't a "hide disconnected or disabled devices" problem. They're simply not there. I have to reconnect the cable to get it to work.
3. If I boot the machine with a HDMI device attached, the laptop's own lcd backlight remains turned on. I have to turn it off by switching primary display to the laptop and the back to the external monitor.
*For reference, my other laptop, a U46, is an optimus device and does not suffer from these two issues.

4. When I boot the computer and SCM loads, the trackpad is immediately turned off - the trackpad remains functional until MSI's SCM loads. This happens even if I have no external pointing devices attached - so I have to use KB shortcuts to re-enable the trackpad if I don't have a mouse connected.
This issue is actually related to the Logitech gaming drivers. It emulates or causes the computer to believe that a pointing device is installed when there is none, which then causes SCM to auto-disable the touchpad.

5. Sometimes my GB ethernet cuts out. It will then re-establish "limited connectivity", so limited that I can't even ping my own router. This isn't a problem with my router or switch. I have to either use WiFi (if I'm in a hurry) or reboot the system.

Some of these behaviors might be normal, if so, please do tell. Some of the other ones, I don't think are normal.

*For reference, #3 has been reported to be normal behavior.

 

All of these concerns have been notated and we will do our best to keep within the 3-5 day estimated turn time that was given.

 

The laptop was posted back towards me on the 23rd of September and is still currently in transit.

 

We replaced the laptop and shipped back within the 3-5 business days as promised. We are currently trying to work with the carrier to find out when it will be delivered.

 

The laptop was shipped back to me via USPS on September 23, 2013. It finally made it here on October 8, 2013.

Unfortunately the package was flagged by customs as being taxable, which it is in fact not: it falls under the exemption for articles repaired in NAFTA and Israel.
When I attempted to re-submit the package for re-evaluation, I got stonewalled by the post office and Canadian customs; they were basically passing the responsibility back and forth and even gave me a false address.

After getting fed up with getting nowhere for 3 days, I decided to pony up and pay the custom charges first and then use the customs cost against my business tax deductions - the time frame for a reimbursement is 6 weeks and I'd have to waste even more time filling out paperwork.

Anyways. I opened the box to find pretty much brand new system.

The bezel around the monitor wasn't loose and borderline falling apart. It was tight enough where I was unwilling to pry it apart to verify the status of the retention clips.
The bezel around the upper touch panel was scratch free - unlike the original machine, it had a plastic protective film protecting it.
The keyboard inserts weren't damaged.
The screws showed little to no signs of stripping.
The chassis retention clips were undamaged.
The machine didn't half-lock up going into the BIOS if you repeatedly hit Delete quickly.

Other little things included getting all 6 screws for the mSATA ports, and the 2.5" hard drive retention bracket.
The machine was obviously babied when it was assembled this time: except for the rubber sponge cushion in the 2.5" bracket which was torn - probably got ripped when the 2.5" drive was stripped out.