MSI GE63VR / GE73VR Raider Laptops

Ok so auto fan setting and ultra preset my temps hit 80C for CPU and 75C for GPU. Ambient about 15C. CPU undervolted 50mV (peak voltage 1.066V on HWMonitor). Only tested about 15 mins but doesn't feel like temps would get much higher.

 

tomshardware.com
MSI GE63VR Raider Gaming Laptop Review
by Alexander Quejado September 6, 2017 at 6:00 AM

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-ge63vr-raider-gaming-laptop,5170.html

 

thank you for the reply. 15 mins is pretty much fine for the test. With auto fan my temp peaked at 88C for the cpu and gpu stays below 70C. Did not undervolt my cpu yet. my abience temp is around 29C. I will just undervolt the cpu later and hope for the best and lower temps.

 

And one last request. Can you please run AIDA64 stress test for FPU(not for the cpu) and tell me the highest peaked temps for the CPU? thank you. Screenshot will be appreciated. I am just worried i got a defective unit, since my unit is 2 weeks old, i am trying to refund/replace if its faulty.

 

Well, I wasn't expecting this:

"The GE63 Raider runs middle of the pack in terms of heat dissipation. At idle, the components linger in the low-to-mid 40s, but heat up to the mid-to-high 70s after 15 minutes of Furmark stress testing, with the GPU heat sink emitting about 79°C. GPU-Z detects average GPU temperatures of around 69°C, with a maximum temperature of 72°C. The two other GTX 1070-equipped laptops perform much cooler, with maximum temperatures nowhere close to 70°C. The Aorus performs slightly warmer, but this is to be expected considering its more power-hungry GTX 1080. The AVAdirect runs hotter still because of its slim size".

and then:

"Unfortunately, thermal performance isn’t great. The MSI’s cooling isn’t bad, per se, but its primary competition, the Alienware 15 and the SC17, run much cooler during Furmark stress testing, and they contain almost the same specifications. Meanwhile, the Aorus and AVADirect run warmer, but do so because they have stronger components and slimmer builds, respectively. The Raider’s cooling solution would be much better suited when paired with a GTX 1060; MSI offers such a model with all other specifications held constant".

 

It's a relatively "thin and quiet" laptop for its size and power, even quieter than the mentioned competitors, I'd absolutely expect reviews like this to kick in.

For a 1070 to be properly cooled, a robust cooling solution is needed, and in the Raider's case, a proper repaste. High CPU temps are irrelevant, as most laptop reviews are done with the stock voltages. I'd always undervolt first before whining about CPU temps

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I cannot take the Tom's Hardware thermal test seriously considering I didn't see any Temps on the CPU and they said the Alienware had better thermals.

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That 2 week return window is the time to test the CPU for it's ability to undervolt, not later.

The CPU's all have different "personal" characteristics and you can get one that has poor undervolting potential.

I've seen a range of -100mv to -150mv typical undervolt, but also a rare few that won't undervolt much more than -20mV.

If you don't want to get stuck with one of those, then undervolt now to test before you run out of return time

 

which undervolt range do you recommend? and what happens when its unstable and hang? do i force shutdown? or will the laptop automatically restart?

 

There are lots of posts on how to undervolt, and some specific to models of CPU's - there are different ranges possible with Haswell, Skylake, Kabylake CPU's, but in general -100mV is a good place to start.

Kabylake has been the best at undervolting high into the OC range. The BIOS set voltage is so high people are OC'ing at 4.0ghz-4.3ghz with an undervolt, which is wild.

I'd start at -100mV, and jump to -150mV, just to test the limits.

When you crash at the highest (lowest?) undervolt, let's say at -150mV, your laptop will BSOD (blue screen of death), or it might freeze, power off, or restart.

It's important to have everything except for your test software closed when testing the limits of the undervolt.

And, I usually run a boot time disk check, you can schedule it by right clicking on the C partition, properties, Tools tab, Check now, Schedule next boot. I do this for every crash and that way when I crash next time - or simply boot up - a disk check will run and catch any issues before they lead to problems from installing new software or making other disk writes.

Use a CPU benchmark to load up the CPU to 100% on all cores - Intel Extreme Tuning Utility (XTU) has one built it, either run the benchmark or the stress test.

After you find a stable full load CPU undervolt setting, let's say -145mV, then it's time to test for a stable idle undervolt, which might not be as high.

When the CPU downclocks and starts dropping voltage through dynamic voltage setting your undervolt adds to the reduction in voltage and it might be too low at idle.

Let the laptop sit without any programs open say for 2 hours, and if it hasn't rebooted or crashed on it's own then there's a good chance you have a stable undervolt across the CPU load (voltage) range.

When you have a stable undervolt save it in XTU, set the undervolt, Apply, then Save and name a profile that will load each time you boot.

If your undervolt isn't stable and you save it you are still ok because XTU won't apply a Profile at boot up if you crashed last time.

So if you do crash for another reason, a bad program or powering off without shutting down for example, you need to go back into XTU and select a Profile and Apply it and at next reboot XTU will apply that profile.

When incrementing up or down I use -10mV as the increment to get to the crash point, then back off +5mV from the unstable point, and then use +-1mV to hone in on the exact stable point.

But, you can certainly stop the hunt for the unstable point once you are happy with the results, lower CPU temp at load. So if you try -100mV and you are happy there, you can stop spending (wasting?) time looking for that last 10's of mV improvement.

Have fun

 

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. i was about to ask you for youtube videos link which will help me. But this helps me a lot. One thing i dont understand is the idle undervolt part. Can you please explain that to me?

 

Here is the update. Stock clock max temp is 87C during benchmark. I undervolted -100mv and max temp is 79C during benchmark and i forgot and left google chrome open with page. If i undervolt more will there be fps decrease in cpu intensive games such as battlefield 1? im sorry i asked a lot of question. I am new in this thing. thank you

 

No, there is no performance decrease from undervolting

The way undervolting works is by tuning the voltage for the CPU at a *specific frequency / multiplier* for the least voltage for stable operation.

You are setting the performance by running the CPU at that speed, undervolting is optimizing it's heat output by reducing the dynamic voltage set by the CPU to a smaller voltage through this negative offset.

To run at higher frequencies / multipliers you need more voltage than at lower multipliers / frequencies, so as you increase your CPU speed more voltage is needed to be stable at that speed.

Within the range of the voltage set in the BIOS you are able to run an unlocked CPU at higher than stock speeds, even as high as into the 4.xghz range with newer Kabylake CPU's, but you can still undervolt the voltage setting at those higher speeds.

Once you reach a CPU speed in excess of what the BIOS set voltage can support, then you overvolt - add a +positive voltage offset instead of a negative voltage offset.

Even at overvolt, the value you pick to test highest OC will be an overshoot of what is necessary to be stable at that highest speed, so you will drop the voltage down - undervolt - so that you aren't using excess voltage to maintain a stable operation at that OC.

When you have a stable overvolt, you undervolt again to find the lowest stable voltage for that particular multiplier / speed.

It's not complicated really, undervolting is part of overclocking, but with locked CPU's - you can't change the multiplier or speed - the only "overclocking" tool you have left is undervolting.

Probably more of an explanation than you wanted, so simply put: undervolting alone does not reduce your performance

 

The voltage for the CPU is set through a dynamic table of speed vs voltage, as the CPU speed increases the voltage applied increases, and as the speed of the CPU drops as usage decreases the dynamic voltage applied decreases.

So at Idle the CPU voltage will be at it's lowest point.

The undervolting negative CPU voltage offset will be applied to the highest voltage used and the lowest voltage used.

When you test for the best stable undervolt at the highest CPU load you are finding the stable undervolt for the highest voltage setting for the CPU.

You can be stable at the highest CPU voltage used with an undervolt that is too great to use at the lowest CPU voltage used, at Idle.

So if for example -150mV works at the highest CPU load, it might be to much of a voltage drop at idle, so if you crash at -150mV at idle you add a little positive offset - or actually you are reducing the negative voltage offset - by +5mV or +10mV.

-150mV +10mV = -140mV

-150mV +5mV = -145mV

Then you test again at idle with the new undervolt setting, and if it's still not stable drop the undervolt again by +5mV / +10mV.

When idle is stable, you can stop, as you already tested the highest CPU undervolt stability and found a larger undervolt worked, so this new slightly smaller undervolt will work too

 

This is the best undervolt explanation I've yet to see, well done

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Wow thank you so much. Now i get the idea of undervolting without looking up or watching youtube videos. One question though, I set the undervolt, applied and saved it in X profile name.
1. Do i need XTU running in the background for the undervolt to work? Can i close it and will it work even if its closed?
2. Do i need to open XTU each time i restart and apply the profile i created for the undervolt to work?

 

Yes i agree and it helped me so much.

 

The XTU service will set the adjustments in the Profile selected at boot, and then go to sleep. It's automatic.

If there was a crash since the last reboot, or you powered off without shutting down, XTU will notice that and not apply the Profile settings at next boot.

There is also an XTU applet that runs to monitor the system to display values in XTU dashboard, whether you are running the dashboard or not, so I usually exit that systray app after boot, it just takes a quick mouse movement and click, I do / you can disable it's start up, but the XTU service keeps running.

Some people running Windows 10 have reported a bug where XTU doesn't apply the settings at boot, but after futzing around with it - IDK what they do differently or if XTU just needs a few successful reboots or power ups to choose to "do the right thing", but they usually / eventually report it's working again.

I run with hibernation disabled - disables slow shutdown (Hybrid shutdown) and disables Fast Startup (OS setting, not BIOS setting), which may be a factor - although others have found it can be enabled and the XTU profiles load ok at boot time.

Try it and see what happens.

@ThatOldGuy posted powershell scripts to run XTU CLI commands at boot that force the settings if XTU won't apply the profile at boot automatically.

How to automatically under-volt in XTU without opening it
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-under-volt-in-xtu-without-opening-it.802143/

 

Ok now i am now quite happy with the outcome. I was worried about the temps because i expected a better cooling system from this raider series with the new cooler boost 5 and two side exhaust vents compared with older GE72VR model. And since i am from India it cost a lot more, about 700-800$ more and i want the laptop to last for years without any problem whatsoever. Ambient temperature here is 28-30C so my laptop will run a bit hotter compared with other countries. Anyways thank you again. I will stick with -100mv for now. And my core no. 2 runs hotter than any other core for about 8C differences, i guess it needs repaste. Will repaste in the future. Thank you

 

Great, that's good to hear. It's possible that there was just a higher load on Core 2 for a brief time - run hwinfo64 with logging on for a few runs of your tests, and look at the peak temp hit and how often it was reached.

Often there are just a few peaks - the peak temp reading can be a bit deceiving when for the most part the temperatures are good throughout a run.

If there is a misfitment of the heat sink / heat plate you usually get "pair's of hot cores". Like Core's 0/1 will be lower than Core's 2/3, causing a core temperature differential.

A single core usually means extra work was done by that core for whatever reason.

Core temp differentials under 10c are liveable, especially with a good undervolt. The higher core temps from the hot pair are ok until they reach the thermal throttling point of about 93c, then all 4 cores are throttled, so you don't want that.

Re-pasting brings risks, and successful undervolting can remove the need for re-pasting, so if you are stable at -100mV, try going further -10mV at a time until you find the best undervolt, that can be as much as -220mV stable - rare but it's been seen - imagine if they had stopped at -100mV as it was good enough, so it's worth trying.

It's risk free doing undervolting, not so true of re-pasting.

Physical disassembly is within everyone's grasp, with practice, training, and going through mistakes that may be costly. And, after re-pasting the first time most people keep trying to improve their temperatures, re-pasting many times, stripping out screw holes and screw tops, maybe breaking something or forgetting something along the way.

There is a continual need to re-paste over time once you have opened that kettle of fish

I'd rather spend my time using the computer for gaming or other applications - why I bought it in the first place - than pulling it apart and putting it back together - over and over...

Undervolting allows you to get "good enough" CPU temperatures without spending all that time re-pasting

 

So i ran OOCT. Core 0,1 and 4 is 4-5C less than core 2. I guess its fine. not much of a difference. Stress test finished today because of the undervolting. Before that it stops automaticaly beacuse temps peaked 90C.

 

great job man

 

Agree - a good review comparing thermals has to cover size and weight. Eg The alienware is 7.7lb and GE63VR is 4.9lb.. the extra lbs should deliver a lot more cooling but I have no interest in a 7.7lb laptop.

Plus they reviewed the $2300 model but should have done their research to find there is a GE63VR for $1800 with the 1070..

 

I am extremely particular in my requirements and this one is the only laptop that fits what I'm looking for... except I just read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-ge63vr-raider-gaming-laptop,5170.html

"The touchpad offers no clicking functionality; MSI instead includes two separate left and right click buttons beneath the touchpad."

Does this mean you can't do a left click equivalent by tapping the touchpad??? That would be a total dealbreaker if true. But I'm hoping that isn't what the above means. Can someone confirm if tapping the touchpad makes a left click happen? (Like every other laptop I've ever used).

 

Nah. It will still respond to touch. What they mean is the actual touch pad is not clickable like some.

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Thanks for confirming that. Having dedicated left and right buttons is one of my requirements but I absolutely still need the ability to tap the touch pad to do a left click. Saying " ...touchpad offers no clicking functionality" is clearly very poorly worded!

 

Tapping =/= clicking
So... Nah, it's always been this way.

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I am hoping that the 17" GE73VR has a bit more mass and room to deal with the heat. I am really close to pulling the trigger on this. Is anyone else in the same spot and considering some other laptop? I probably would have bought the EVGA SC 15 already but it has a 20ms display.

 

No, I think it means that the "whole pad" can't be depressed to make a click, just the buttons have physical vertical travel.

The option for double tap or tap on the immobile trackpad would still be in the OS, no reason to remove it

 

"The MSI’s cooling isn’t bad, per se, but its primary competition, the Alienware 15 and the SC17, run much cooler during Furmark stress testing"

This genuinely worries me as Alienware 15 is notorious for overheating and throttling so if GE63VR is already hotter than Alienware 15 then it'll likely have heat issues rapidly.

Also for those recommending custom paste, if Alienware 15 is natively cooler than MSI GE63VR then wouldn't it be better to custom paste that laptop over GE63VR? What do y'all think?

 

With 2 x M.2 + 1 x SATA, is there any reason why you couldn't run 3 separate drives? I just enquired from a store about buying it with an additional samsung 2TB installed and they said can't be done cos it only has 1 M.2. I think they are mistaken. Or is the 2nd M.2 special in some way? Can it only be used in a RAID 0 configuration for example?

 

It works either way. You can either tap for left click, or use the left click button. Of course they forget to mention that the touchpad is programmable.

 

The thermal analysis, among other things, is flawed in the review.

1. After Thermal Paste upgrade on the GE63VR w/ nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 we get Max temp of 68C on CPU and 69C after AIDA64 Stress test. This is without any Undervolt.
2. After all the discussion on this forum about using Furmark for stress testing, any 'professional' still doing it should be banned from using a computer, much less writing about them. @Papusan @Phoenix @Mr. Fox @Rage Set
3. We sell both the GE63/73VR series, and Alienware 15. With the nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, after Thermal Paste upgrade, where we also fix the thermal pads and lousy heatsink setup, we get 84C on CPU and 73C on GPU. Without the upgrade, the temps are much higher. So, to say the Alienware 15 runs cooler is simply trash talk.

This is the kind of thing that can go viral, and it is a shame.

 

The proper way to state this is the Raider series can support 2x M.2 SATA SSDs + 1x 2.5" SATA SSD. There is no reason you cannot run 2, or all 3 of them in RAID 0, except they all have to match in size for RAID 0. Therefore since 1TB M.2 SATA SSD is the largest available, matching 2 of them with 1x 2TB 2.5" SATA SSD you would only end up with 3GB if you were to put all 3 into RAID 0...the extra 1TB on your 2TB Samsung 2.5" would have nothing with which to match up.

You can have 2x M.2 SATA SSDs in RAID 0 + your 2TB 2.5" Samsung SATA SSD.

 

You can get an impression from a "good" unit sent for review by AW, but that doesn't scale up to what customers see when they unbox their new AW laptop.

What AW customers report here on NBR are terrible temperatures, core temp differentials from ill fitting heat plates, and bad QA that let's the thermal throttling units ship to customers.

The MSI GE63 temps in reviews match what customers are seeing, that's the important difference to notice

 

Thanks for the info guys - its what I suspected as well (and has been the main reason I didn't - and won't - buy the alienware 15)

Its just a shame that MSI has been super slow to bring this laptop to Canada and that there are no folks like HIDevolution or GentechPC who can do the custom liquid paste mod for me here or I would've bought this laptop ages ago!

That said, I could buy this laptop here with stock paste...but from what I have read so far, that will easily get me into 80 degrees+ temps - and that is something I would definitely rather avoid

 

We ship to Canada, and all over the world

 

Oh I know you do but given the brutal exchange rate, the foreign transaction fee, the import taxes and the shipping fees means that the laptop will end up costing me like 1k more than its mrp - and I just can't justify that

 

Have seen more than one who start on their 4th Alienware in a row or finally change brand and start all over again on 5th laptop. You forgot mentioning stuttering and freezes

It seems people will never ever learn. THIS is from one of the most known firmware modders. Maybe people will learn when they sit home with fried/dead graphics after the warranty have expired?

 

Thank you very much for that detailed explanation, I had settled on the Raider and that review bothered me as the AW 15 Owner's lounge is full of complaints about the overheating.

I live in the UK so buying from HIDevolution would cost more than buying the stock option here directly. I'm worried about the thermals though, I will be undervolting the CPU for sure but what about the GPU?

Would you still recommend the Raider if not 'upgraded"?

I'm curious about the warranty from HIDevolution, does it work outside of the US?

 

@kooltilldend

using Furmark on a laptop =

 

what do you mean by this, ? is the thermal pads GE63VR was bad out of the factory box ?

 

You got me confused. I don't want to use RAID at all. I just want 2 x M.2 drives (pcie mode) and 1 SATA drive. All different sizes, not setup as a RAID array. Is this possible?

 

I think that part was referring to the AW15

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So is chadkamei the only one playing bf1? It would be awesome if other owners could post their temps while playing taxing games for an extended period of time like bf1, overwatch, and witcher 3. I'm trying to decide between buying this comp or the pa70hs-g and temps are my deciding factor (but please let me know if there are other things I should consider). I believe the clevo has tb3 and gsync, which the raider doesn't.

 

No... The Alienware pads are bad.

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I was looking at that model as well. From what I've read, the left side of the keyboard heats up quickly and the fans kick in high at odd times. I only saw one customer report on the PA70 and they said the Temps are in the high 80's.



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I believe this detailed review was already posted here but for those who haven't seen it, here you go.



From what I've gathered over the past month of research, it appears as if the max thermals on the GE73vr average in the low 80's for the CPU and high 60's for the GPU. This is with stock paste and no undervolt.

While I haven't seen any reports or reviews on the thermals with after market paste and an undervolt, I was told by a very reputable source that the CPU will max out in the mid 70's and the GPU in the mid 60's with IC Diamond applied to both.

Honestly guys, I don't know what more you could want out of a laptop the size of the Raider series. There isn't another laptop this size with noticeably better thermals. Hell, we already know it's common for laptops twice this size to max out in the mid 90's CPU and low 80's GPU. If you want stock thermals in the 70's and 60's then get one of the behemoth laptops like the Titan. Good luck carrying it around like a normal laptop.

Kaby Lake runs hot but it can also take more heat.

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No laptop will ever be satisfying. Most users will keep nagging about minor issues because they expect their next purchase to be flawless or thin/light/under 70 degrees. Even the best business class laptops can't be flawless so how come a gaming laptop is?

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You mean run it up to 100C and call it a day? Yeah, I suppose you as Dellienware's support tech team read Intel's data sheet for Core i7's as the Devil and everything is all good if temp staying under 100C Oh'well.