*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Hi everyone! Welcome to the Official MSI 16L13 (Late 2016) Barebones Eurocom Tornado F5 Owners and Discussion thread.

This is NOT a discussion for the GT62VR. If you wish to discuss the GT62VR, please visit the high information thread for that model here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.793857/page-131#post-10363431

This is the new home to discuss all things MSI 16L13.

The MSI 16L13 is a MSI "Barebones" model aimed towards super enthusiasts looking for a full desktop CPU LGA powered notebook based on the MSI GT62VR shell.

Where to buy?

USA:
Highly recommend Eurocom's Tornado F5 variant: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,384,0)ec
EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Custom Built Gaming Laptop w/ nVIDIA GTX 1080

Key differences between the 16L13 and the GT62VR:

Update:-Full powered Desktop LGA CPU (Up to i7-7700K)
-Intel Z170 System Board
Update:-Two m2 Slots RAID capable (NVMe IS supported)
Update:-Available Unlocked BIOS (by Svet via donation) Eurocom is about to release their own custom BIOS with Kaby Lake support and other features!
-Can be had in a "NO LOGO" form with no markings, all black stealth
Update: -Up to MXM Nvidia Geforce 1080M (can also be configured down to a 970M) Future upgradeable to Nvidia Volta cards (we expect)
-Same great speakers from GT62VR but instead of Nahimic software suite, you get the (arguably better) Soundblaster Cinema Suite 3
Update: -Same LG 1080p G-Sync Panel, future upgradable to eDP other panels (Now offering 4K Samsung G-sync and upcoming 120hz G-Sync!)
-Same great fan setup, very quiet!

Comparisons to the GT62VR (I had the GT62VR previously)





Close up of the CPU and GPU heatsink setups



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EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Custom Built Gaming Laptop w/ nVIDIA GTX 1080

Review of this laptop, it's the same as the Tornado F5: EUROCOM Tornado F5 Mini-MonsterBook Review Thread

This laptop is based on the MSI 16L13 but it's also loosely based off the GT62VR because it has the same look and feel of that model but with a thicker chassis to accommodate the desktop components

Quick Overview
EVOC 16L-G-1080 Custom Built Gaming Laptop - 15.6" Full HD (1920x1080) IPS or 15.6" 4K UHD (3840x2160) Samsung PLS Matte Type Display - with nVIDIA® G-SYNC™ Technology Antiglare Matte type display - w/ nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 with G-Sync Technology - Intel 7th Generation "Kaby Lake" Delidded, Under Volted and Overclocked Core i7 Unlocked Desktop Processors - 8GB DDR4/2400MHz upgradeable to 64GB DDR4/3200MHz - Up to 2x M.2 2TB PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe or SATA SSDs + Up to 1x 2.5" SATA III 2TB HDD or 4TB SSD - Windows 10 or Windows 10 Pro (Optional)

 

Eurocom's delivery and packaging:

 

Warranty info (thanks @hmscott)

 

@Diversion - Great job starting this thread. I hope it gives everyone the info they need before they purchase the 16L13.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

from what I have gathered reading the original thread covering various aspects of the similar models GT62VR / MSI 16L13 / Eurocom Tornado F5 (all posts : http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-gt62vr-owners-and-discussions-lounge.793857/), listed below are perhaps the possible potential issues/downsides of the (MSI 16L13) barebones (Eurocom F5 : http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,384,0)ec) unit that have been mentioned or read about. please correct/advise on any misunderstandings or discrepancies, or anything that I may be way off-base on / misunderstood, or anything that I may have not mentioned or have possibly missed entirely(thanks!):

- fairly difficult to access the upper 2 primary RAM slots (partial disassembly of MSI 16L13 barebones / Eurocom F5 chassis required)

- only 1 display type (FHD 1080p Matte) available for MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) > (no other display options such as 3k / 4k / glossy / 1440p or 120hz are available at this time)

- potential issues with keyboard (space bar), trackpad (click buttons), issues are hit or miss depending on the barebone MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) unit received from Eurocom

- MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) has an internal battery (non-swap-able / not easily removable)

- upon Purchase of barebone MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) unit, a full re-paste is required on the CPU & GPU / under heatsink to keep internal temps within reason, possible De-lid & re-paste / Re-lid required on 6700k to bring temps down a bit

- no custom BIOS readily available at this time when MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) is purchased from Eurocom (would require a re-flash of BIOS IF & When a custom BIOS can be had, the availability of which is a crap-shoot thus far)

- no custom vBIOS (on 1060 or 1070) included when barebones 16L13 purchased (Eurocom F5)

- compatibility with upcoming Kaby Lake CPU (upgrade / cpu swap) not determined and would most likely require a major BIOS / firmware upgrade, some chance that this might not happen with MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) unit as it is not supported in this way (like retail MSI units)

- IO port configuration somewhat odd (all USB 3 ports only on the right side of machine, all audio jacks on left side

- possible need for the larger 330 watt adapter (PSU) to meet possible power needs (especially if OC is done) on MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) unit

- some possible sound issues on MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) unit, requires a specific driver update ?

- MSI Dragon controls etc not available at all in barebones MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) model

- Killer WiFi issue, requires the substitution of Intel 8260 WiFi card WHEN MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) IS Purchased (the changing / swapping of WiFi card requires a full re-paste as card is partially buried under heatsink assembly)

- native Linux install untested so far, so undetermined if Linux will install properly on this barebones MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) model

- some issues installing Windows 7 on this barebones MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) model, requires special instructions / exotic approach of installing Windows 7 on a separate HDD, and then installing that separate HDD back into the MSI 16L13 (Eurocom F5) laptop

- non-branded / No-logo sleek MSI 16L13 barebones unit (Eurocom F5) is a hit or miss, may possibly require an additional fee paid to Eurocom for No Logo ?

 

1) It is fairly difficult, requiring a lot of patience to get to the 2 extra slots under the system board. It requires near complete disassembly of the unit having to remove the entire system board up and out of the unit

2) An excellent LG 1080p G-Sync panel is provided (same as GT62VR) but these are standard eDP connected displays, you can easily already purchase a 4K Panel for this model for $68 online and in the future a 120hz G-Sync should be available

3) I had the keyboard space bar issue on my GT62VR but the issue is far less prevalent to non-existent on my Barebones 16L13.. I think everyone's experience will be "hit or miss" .. get it? Hehehe

4) The battery is EASILY removed once you remove the under panel. It's a single plug and it's not tacked down or anything, it just lifts right out once you unplug it. I'm sure buying another as a replacement will be easily findable for purchase online.

5) A full re-paste IS NOT required if you're okay with 80+C under big cpu loads, Eurocom pastes everything with IC Diamond and it's perfectly fine if you're not up for a full re-paste. However, a fulll de-lid and repaste with CLU/CLP for me netted a 10-12c drop in temps.. I could probably redo my job with more patience to further improve it.

6) Eurocom has expressed some thought in offering a fully unlocked BIOS as an option upon purchasing the Tornado F5. You can already get an unlocked BIOS from Svet via a donation.

7) Nobody has a unlocked vBios on ANY mobile 10 series GPUs at the time of this writing, the signature check to flash an unlocked vBIOS hasn't been cracked yet.

8) Compatibility for Kaby Lake needs to be done via an unlocked BIOS (probably will be figured out once Kaby Lake is available) and Eurocom has already mentioned they will offer Kaby Lake equipped Tornado F5 in the future.

9) IO Ports don't seem to be a problem, you can easily use the rear USB-C port as an additional USB port and connect a small $10 4-port USB3 adapter to it from Amazon to further expand your IO.

10) 330watt doesn't seem like a requirement yet unless you're attempting to simultaneously run a triple A game at 4.8ghz clocks or so. I haven't experienced any problems with the 230watt running at 4.2ghz and gaming. I did encounter a few crashes with Crysis3 at 4ghz though. Once I backed off my clocks to 3.6ghz all was well.

11) No sound issues with the Soundblaster Cinema Suite, @Talon has figured out an easy workaround.. Otherwise you need to use their included sound drivers to make it work.

12) Dragon Center is pointless and not needed/required. Just use KLM (Keyboard LED Manager) to control the keyboard lighting.

13) Simply don't get the unit with Killer wifi.. Just get the Intel 8260, problem solved.

14) No fee required for "NO LOGO", just ask for it.

Hope this helps!

 

thanks much for the reply, glad we could cover all those questions and put some confusion to rest, it puts things into perspective for many of us who are considering purchasing this laptop from Eurocom. please feel free to mention any issues (or things to consider for people thinking about purchasing) or any other important aspects regarding this MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) unit, would be most appreciated, and most helpful. thanks again !

 

So far my experience is grand. No issues I can think of so far! It's everything I wanted in a laptop and knowing I can upgrade it's components later is an amazing feeling. Plan on keeping this unit a good long time.

 

Can someone clarify what the Killer wireless issue is? I actually ordered mine with the 1535. Are there issue with this? I wonder if I should change it before it ships.

 

yes, from all your past informative posts, I have been impressed with your assessment of this MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) machine and plan to purchase one myself. based on your detailed response to my last lengthy post regarding possible / potential concerns ....I am quite sure that when I DO in fact purchase, I will pursue the Non- Logo, and will definitely make sure that I order with the Intel 8260 WiFi Card, and make absolutely sure to have the 2 upper (primary) Ram Slots already filled.
the only things that may cause me to wait a little on purchasing is to make sure that Eurocom offers the F5 with the custom BIOS (Svet) in place so no Re-flash is necessary, and to also allow for a Kaby upgrade later on. would be nice if other display options were offered, however as you mentioned, one can purchase a replacement display & swap, hopefully that process would not be very difficult on this MSI 16L13 barebones (Eurocom F5) unit. thanks again for all your work detailing this particular model, most appreciated

 

I have personally experience with the Killer 1535 and had zero issues.. I'm not sure what the issues are, but most people just prefer the Intel counterpart which just probably has more solid drivers and support mostly.

 

I doubt Eurocom will partner with Svet, even if he IS a programming god. Eurocom is a Prema partner. Not to mention, there are probably some legal lines drawn by MSI about what Eurocom can, and cannot do to the notebook.

 

I cannot speak to those issues specifically (as I do not own this machine), however I did read about some issues that people were having in the original thread ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-gt62vr-owners-and-discussions-lounge.793857/ ), you might want to check thru that thread. personally, I would change your order if it is still possible, that is, to avoid possibly having to swap the WiFi card yourself later if there is a problem.

READ This Top Post here, describes replacing WiFi card in this laptop > http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/want-to-ask-about-eurocom-tornado-f5.796862/page-4

 

So interesting change I noticed after applying the modded BIOS. The core voltage offsets lost their decimals in XTU, and thus became whole numbers \ /

 

Can you overclock your i5 any higher, is the 230w psu enough for say 4.3-4.4 for the i5. I ordered my with a i5, since i dont need HT and it was cheaper.

 

There are no legalities of what you can do with the barebones or how it's sold.. That basically defeats the point of a barebones.. It's designed to have the BIOS a reseller wants to put on it. It's just a standard AMI/Aptio BIOS anyways.

 

That is weird.. but I don't use XTU.. I don't have that behavior with Throttle Stop.

 

The Intel 8260 is $24 on Amazon.. It's a fairly trivial thing to swap it out if the Killer is giving anybody problems at least.. And you can access the Wifi card easily without removing any heatsinks or anything crazy on the 16L13.

 

good to know this conclusively, as I recall having read in the former thread ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-gt62vr-owners-and-discussions-lounge.793857/ ) that it was somewhat problematic to swap the WiFi card in this laptop model, that it required removal of the heatsink assembly, or was partially blocked or covered by it ...glad to hear that it is not in fact the case, and that it is easy to change / swap-out if need be. thanks for clarifying !

 

I have a 330W PSU, so I don't know if there would be any power issues using the 230W. However, Diversion and Talon both have the 6700k, which theoretically pulls more power than the 6600k, and they're doing just fine with the 230W.

That being said, I could push my CPU harder than 4.2 GHz, but I like my CPUs to run cool. I do not want my CPU going over 80 C, even running a Prime95 torture test.

 

It's like halfway under some of the heatpipes but I was able to remove and replace it easily.

 

How far have you pushed you processor too. Have you delid your processor.

 

Biding my time till I can purchase this. If all goes well I'll have the cash around black Friday and the laptop might ship in time to be a Christmas present to myself. Anyone ever seen black Friday deals from resellers like Eurocom/cyberpowerpc?

 

Right now, I'm trying to find stable settings at 4.2 GHz (my goal). Unfortunately for me, the laptop is performing a bit too well, so I might be tempted to shoot for 4.3 or 4.4 GHz

No. I am a student, thus income is limited... this laptop needs to last me 3-4 years, so that means taking it easy on my baby. Heck, I haven't even repasted yet (still using the stock paste from Eurocom).

I'm pretty confident that if your are willing to do at least some of these:
1. Replace the thermal compound
2. Tolerate higher temperatures (I'm shooting for <80 C)
3. Increase the fan speed

and/or

4. De-lid

You could easily hit over 4.2++ GHz.

 

Not specifically Eurocom, but most online retailers go for a "Cyber Monday" the following Monday after Thanksgiving holiday.

Interesting Laptop in all.

Any plans for Eurocom modding it to take a GTX 1080?

 

The 1080 would reproduce too much heat. I dont think there is a 1080 in any 15 inch laptop.

 

Yup. AFAIK, the Clevo 1080 is a 190W (or is it 150W?) card. No 15" laptop will be able to handle it.

It's the same reason that the DT 980 never made it into any 15" laptops last gen.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

Nope no 1080 option on 15" notebooks. It needs a beefy cooling setup (something like 4-5 heatpipes on the core alone) and as space constrained as 15 inchers are it would become difficult...just check the GT83VR & P870DM3. Both have a beastly cooling system to sustain those cards. The Clevo even uses vapor chamber..

 

Is it just me, or is the power limit locked on the GTX 1070 =/

 

All mobile Pascal have voltage and power limits locked. At the moment Pascal is totally locked on desktop and laptop as far as flashing a custom vbios. If this changes in the future we can probably flashed an unlocked vbios to gain access to those controls.

 

It's time we put some numbers in this thread. Here are my Firestrike and TimeSpy numbers for anyone interested in the 6600K + GTX 1070 model.

Stock profile:
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/10485429
http://www.3dmark.com/spy/592377

OC profile: [email protected], GTX 1070(+225 Core, +500 Mem)
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/10485061
http://www.3dmark.com/spy/592195

CPU temp hovered at 80C (60% fan speed), and GPU temp around 75C (50% fan speed) for all tests.

I suppose I could push my 6600K harder than 4.2 GHz to get better physics scores, but for now, I am extremely satisfied

 

To expound on this.. There are no custom vBios yet because the signature check when trying to flash a modified vBIOS hasn't been bypassed. It will be figured out soon i'm sure.. Obviously nVidia spent a lot more time on making sure people can't modify it this time around.. Maxwell was cracked quickly :/

 

The AW15 with TN-WA 120hz has been released.. keep an eye out on acquiring the panel for that unit so I can order one ASAP and make the swap

 

Hmm, I'm someone who has only owned 60 Hz monitors, is 120 Hz it worth it? I would think that in order to hit 120 FPS in current and future games, you will need to turn down a few graphical settings.

 

God yes.. High refresh screens are amazing stuff for games. Plus it raises the g-sync cap up to 120hz so it further helps if you can't reach 120hz. Nah, you'd be surprised how easy it is to hit 60 fps in a lot of games.. but g-sync will help for the ones that don't.

 

so what might be, at this point in time, some reasonable alternative 15.6" panels for swapping out the stock display for the 16L13 / Eurocom F5 (matte or glossy, 60hz or 120hz, 1440p if even possible) ? any links to specific replacement panels would be most helpful. and as far as the current default stock display (matte 1080p) that currently now comes with this 16L13 / Eurocom F5 model, how does it stack up, and how does it actually compare with what 15.6" displays are currently available now (from 3rd party vendors) as possible replacement displays, or as a potential upgrade ? in other words, is a significant display upgrade feasible / worthwhile / warranted considering what possible replacement displays are actually available now. also wondering if anyone who currently owns this machine has attempted or done a display swap thus far for this particular laptop, and what a new purchaser of this laptop can expect (the actual mechanics of / difficulty of swapping it out) if they might choose or consider swapping the stock display on this specific laptop model. thanks all !

 

Only the included LG 1080p and a 4K glossy IPS: http://www.laptopscreen.com/English/model/MSI/GT62VR 6RD DOMINATOR/

These are your current "official" choices.. but pretty much you can swap out to almost any eDP type LCD panel.

How do they stack up? No idea really, although the LG 1080p that is included is a really good screen, contrast could probably be better it's at 700:1 but outside of that it's great. There's little reason to try and swap screens as the LG included is G-sync.. and the 4K is not from what i've heard. So there's no many G-sync choices out there in the 15.6" market at the moment.. Pretty sure this LG and the just-released Alienware 15 TN-WA 120hz G-sync are our only choices if you're trying to keep G-Sync.

 

I'm waiting on this too, pretty eager to see what panels come available. I've seen people posting about eDP compatibility, no idea what that means. Educated guess is that anything with an eDP connection in roughly the same spot as the stock lcd should work.

In my browsing I have not found a TN WVA 120hz yet, but someone will. Only a matter of time.

 

thanks guys, most helpful info, really good to know where things stand regarding the stock default display. much appreciated !

 

Speaker demo! Excuse the mess... These speakers are nuts. You can even hear the bass in the recording from my iPhone. Volume on laptop was set to 70%.. It can get even louder.. and no loss of fidelity.

 

I feel like the bass was so crisp in part due to the Soundblaster Cinema 3 software, which isn't even listed on the Eurocom website under drivers... It is on the driver disk that they give us, but the laptop does not have an optical drive making it unnecessarily complicated to install. Another inexplicably missing piece of software is Silent Option, which controls the GPU & CPU fan curves. Is there a way to upload the files to the forums so that future Tornado F5 owners can grab them?

 

Silent option = Auto fans? My unit is silent.. Even if I throw a huge CPU load at the machine, it won't start spinning the CPU fan up until he hits over 70c most times.

 

Are there any 4K G-Sync panels that can be swapped into this? I really want to replace the panel with a 4K panel at some point (for movies, I'll be downscaling to 1080p for gaming).

 

Check previous page, was discussed and I provided a link.

 

Yup, although I didn't think that it was a G-Sync panel. Then again, the G-Sync approved panels confuse me since it's a module like on the external monitors.

 

Right, don't think there's any 15.6" 4K G-Sync approved panels, but could be wrong. I'll only be following where to find the 120hz 1080p panel unfortunately.

 

Google searched showed me this Samsung 4K 15.6" that is supposedly G-Sync approved.

http://www.panelook.com/LTN156FL02-L01_SAMSUNG_15.6_LCM_overview_23360.html

 

Silent Option, as in the software:



You can set for it to be totally silent at low temps if you want.

 

@Diversion

There may be another download place by now, but here is the thread for the Beta:

(Updated:2016/05/06)"Silent Option" Fan Control Application for MSI Laptop
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=255972.0

 

I'll look into it and see what comes up..