Surface Book 2 (13" and 15", GTX 1050/1060) announced

Does MS sell a bigger AC adapter? I thought they max out at 105W. I believe if they went with a Max-Q 1060, the battery would never drain, or like you said, a bigger PSU. What's also damn funny, after googling the battery drain issue while gaming, nearly every site reporting on the issue has half of it's commenters defend MS, because it's “not a gaming machine”. Sometimes i do wonder if this fanatic fanboyism is real or just high end trolling.

 

What kind of connector they use? is it usb type c?
150W is ideal one to use. Otherwise you need serious undervolting of cpu and gpu to stop battery drain.

 

They use this magsafe style thing:



Cool thing is, if you buy the MS dock, you can charge and exoand from just one port. Bad thing is: not enough juice from the PSU and according to reviews on the MS store, very badly made PSUs.

 

Am I seeing TB3 port then see if you buy Apple's Macbook charger 65W and MS Magsafe 3 or whatever can provide enough juice.

 

No, you are seeing normal USB C. MS refuses to put TB3 in their machines so far.

 

What undervolt you guys are able to do on the 13 inch that is ok for everyday use, no gaming?

 

Right now I am about -85mV on Core and Cache and Intel GPU. System is running fine even while gaming.

Best regards

phila

 

Personally I don't recommend undervolt of iGPU because sometimes it introduce UI lags or stutters. If the undervolt of iGPU isn't causing any issues then go ahead.
I undervolt CPU,cache,System agent and analog/digital IO to same values to see great reduction in temps.

 

Im using -125 core and -80 cache

 

The issue with battery drain while still plugged in is one game, set to one setting....anything else is fine.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. The battery drain happens with all kinds if apps ( not just games, but anything that pushes both the CPU and the GPU, including encoding video). And, I've seen it happen in both "Better" and "Best" modes.

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From what I was reading and understanding it was only one game that was causing issues.

 

I've done a bit of my own testing, and that's absolutely not the case. I remember Destiny 2 being used as an example, but no other references to this being just a single game.

For example, just last night I played Halo Wars for about 40 minutes, on "Best Performance" and plugged in. My battery went from 100% to 95% during that span. That happens with every game I play. I also tested encoding a video using Premiere Pro CC 2018, and went from 100% to 94% after about 30 minutes if encoding.

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Which will cause premature wear on a battery that is not removable... But hey, the power brick is several ounces lighter than the competition

The chances of a firmware update + new 140W power brick is low. But that the only thing needed to fix this.

 

I believe there's a 120W (or some such) limit to the Surface Connect Port, and so it may not be possible to completely fix the problem. Now, I'd be happy if Microsoft did release a power supply that would max out what the port can accept, and 120W would be better than 95W (the current supply is 102W, but that includes 7W for the USB port on the adapter; drop that thing, who needs it?).

And a firmware update is only going to throttle the CPU, GPU, or both in order to bring its power envelope within whatever the system can provide. That's basically what we're already doing by moving the slider to "Recommended" -- slowing things down to the point where the system isn't pulling too much power. But, yes, maybe a firmware update along with an extra 25W would get the system that much closer to full performance without needing to hit the battery.

Perhaps Microsoft can adjust the power settings to get just enough performance while remaining right on the edge of what the power supply can provide. Right now, "Recommended" does spare the battery but it also significantly decreases performance. And I haven't tested it that carefully, but I'm pretty sure that "Better" can also hit the battery (although less than "Best"). So maybe there's some room between today's "Recommend" and "Better" where some additional performance can be squeezed out.

Ultimately, I'm okay with it because the SB2 provides an overall set of features and functionality that meet my needs. I'm okay with using the GTX 1060 a bit less than full speed -- it's still faster than the other options I've considered. But I can easily see that people might have a problem with this.

 

Those of you playing games, how are you finding space for everything? External spinning drives? I just bought a 256GB sd card, and it's already full. Grand Theft Auto V is 77GB. Final Fantasy XV is going to be more than 100...

That said, this is my first gaming machine and I'm still loving it. Yes, the 1050 struggles to run a current AAA game, but there are years of great games for me to play that is handles beautifully.

Even aside form gaming, after almost two months I'm still very, very happy with this machine. Is this what Apple users have been feeling all this time when they buy a top-end Macbook?

 

AHHH.

Very good. There was an article on windows central and MS power user that both stated it was just one game. I think destiny 2 was the game. They changed the graphics settings, and away they went with no battery drain while plugged in. I guess this just made my decision easier. xps 15 2 in 1 it is!

 

Did you undervolt the GPU using Afterburner?

I had battery drain on my AORUS X7 until I undervolted the GPU (they also included a sub par PSU).

I would be interested in this!!!

Best regards

phila

P.S.: What are your CPU clocks like under (very) heavy load?

 

I have a question for the folks with the SB2.

If your not using the surface dock, and just plugging in a single monitor into the USB-C port via an HDMI dongle, I understand that a 4K (3840 x 2160) display will run at 60HZ.

What I'm curious about is what about a monitor that's a widescreen 21:9 and not the standard 16:9. Specifically, something like Samsung's CF791. It has a resolution of 3440 x 1440 and a 100hz refresh rate. Would those specs be realized using the SB2 or would it be limited to 60hz (or less)?

Thanks

 

Could you guys please tell me the sustained performance you get on your 13" machines (something like a cinebench R15 loop that they use on NotebookCheck would be nice, so I can compare it to stock) and your temperatures for the CPU? Thanks a lot. Anyone else with the 13" is welcome to answer and would be greatly appreciated.


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Hi there! I installed in run cinebench 15 x64 and run 3 loop with 20 repetitions of the multi CPU reindering:

You will find the folders with the files log files of cinebench and throttlestop under the folowing link: https://1drv.ms/f/s!An6sVWggT749irpKxT-_5y7kYdjUvg

Room temperature was 23,5°C:

1.) First loop (-89,8 mV on core cache and gpu) with multiple small tray apps runing and with direct sun shining on the back of the SFB2. Consequently the performance drops from 556p in irst run to 488 points in last run. Temps averaged around 70°C, Multi average ~23.

2.) Second loop (-94.7 mV on core cache and gpu) with most tray apps closed and no direct sun light on the back of the SFB2.
The performance dropped less: 547p in first run to 506p in last run with jumps back to 517. Temps ~ 73°C, Multi average ~24.

Before the third run I did some more finetuning:
I lowered the Voltage once more and
upped the turbo time limit and
adjusted Intel Power Balance to CPU 25 and GPU 5.
This gave me an amazing result:

3.) Thrid run (-99.6 mV on core cache and gpu) with most tray apps closed and no direct sun light on the back of the SFB2.
The SFB2 perfirmed almost consistent throughout all 20 runs (max 550 min 533) and averaged at 543p. Temps ~73°C, Multi average ~25.

Conclusion: Thx to your question I found out how to optimize the performance of my machine!

Best regards

phila

 

Thanks a lot for the great info! Very useful to know this info. I'm glad you were able to optimize your laptop's performance


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Can you provide a screenshot of your Throttlestop settings for the successful run?


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A little setback... -99.6 mV seemed to be to optimistic. I experienced a bluescreen with this settings in a certain situation. So I reverted to -94.7 mV.

I can upload the screenshots later on.

Best regards

phila

 

Great, thanks!


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Do you have coil whine? If yes, how bad is it?


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After readjusting the Voltage, I did a fourth run (added it to the folder under the downloadlink above) and found out that those few milivolts more did no harm:

Room termperature 21°C / average score over 20 runs 554 (mas 558, min 554) / average temp: 74°C max temp: 86°C

Best regards

phila

@wynand32: You will find the screenshots under the downloadlink above

@ThePerfectStorm: Yes I have a coil whine, if th SFB2 is plugged in and energy settings at "best performance", yet it does not annoy me all that much. Perhaps I am not that sensitive in this regard. I have no problem with the so callef "filco ping" on certain keyboards as well. I think the problem is that those sounds gets louder, the more you pay attention. Saying this I damitt, that I really hate it if something in my car rattles/clatters ^^

 

Thanks a lot. Great info, especially on performance.


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Awesome, thanks so much!

 

Just got a Surface Book 2 15 inch.
Ran WOW to see how it handles light gaming with power mode set to Better Performance.

GPU maxed out at 84, CPU maxed out at high 80's (out of box, have not undervolted yet). Most of the time they were in the 70-80 range. Max CPU core difference was 10 however but I guess that is luck of the draw.
Compared to my Alienware 13 R3 it probably runs 5-10 degrees higher on average. And about 10 frames slower - understandable with a thinner machine pushing a higher resolution.

Other stuff:

• build quality is obviously pretty good and solid
• the screen is fantastic, even compared the Alienware OLED

 

I am debating getting a surface book 2, or laptop. Then a go for travelling. Hard to make up my mind on what way to go. Pardon the pun.

 

Surface Book 2 if you plan on gaming I would say

 

No gaming here. Photo, video and graphics creation.

 

Well would the 3000 x 2000 pixels make a difference to your editing? You get a fair bit more vertical real estate.

Would be surprised if you needed a nvidia GPU though

 

Both surface books and laptop have the same resolution and screen real estate. So, I don't get what you are asking?

 

They have the same 3 x 2 aspect ratio.

But the Surface Book 2 has more pixels:

• Surface laptop 2 screen resolution: 2256 x 1504
• Surface Book 2 (13 inch) screen resolution: 3000 x 2000
• Surface Book 2 (15 inch) screen resolution: 3260 x 2160

 

Oh, Got ya now. I thought the old one had 3000x2000 as well. Yes, the book 2 is what I would be buying.

 

I saw this laptop when googling and have few questions.


1. This isn't a powerful laptop right? This is meant for like traveling and light work only? Could you use this in place of something like an xps 15 9550 with an i5-6300hq processor, 8gb ram and 250gb ssd? But the processor is more new so its more faster?


2. Hows the battery life? I see they say 17 hours but thats not true obviously. But could you get like 5 hours on it with doing intensive things?


3. Is this computer overpriced? I was checking site and put like 16gb ram and say 512gb ssd and its over 2500 usd for it. That is damn expensive.

 

Its for light to medium usage for the purpose of portability. XPS has somewhat better specs than Surface 2 but it has thermal throttling issues.

Battery life test are pretty much favored in lab tests and in real life you get close to 80% advertised battery runtime provided brightness is set to 30-50%, BT off, WLAN/Ethernet connected. They use 8-10W drain when on battery mode as a baseline and calculate the battery life.

Yes Sb 2 is oevrpriced and not user upgradable.

I'd suggest getting a business class notebook with or w/o dGPU from HP, lenovo or Dell.

 

Can I use the surface go adapter to power the tablet part of a surface book 2? Battery life is an issue, so I want to see if I could power the tablet part while using OneNote to take notes using the smallest adapter Microsoft sells. Thx!

 

I have the Surface Book 2 maxed specs (i7/16gb ram/1tb ssd/1060 gpu). Yes, you can use any surface pro/go/laptop charger to just charge the tablet portion of the Book 2. I use my Surface Pro 3 adapter just for the tablet part if I leave with just the tablet portion. To be honest, if that is all of what you're doing, the battery life should last you. I've had mine now for a little over 2 years with 102 cycles and the battery last me for a good while. If I just want max battery life for the whole 2 and 1, I just disable discrete graphics.

Sorry to have bumped this old thread.

 

Don't apologize, it's always good to bump computer thread with real world results. I am going to be getting a new computer soon, and I have been going back and forth on the book 13 or xps 13 2 in 1. About a million times. There are features of both I like, and dislike. Right now, I am waiting for MS to update the book to 11th gen processors and I may jump on it.