The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
The 13" model has the 1050. which is probably good enough for me. I want the 13" maxed out. and I want Microsoft to release a surface studio monitor without the computer built in. The ultimate computing device for me.
Cooling is somewhat unique due to the CPU and GPU in separate cases. The 15" uni-body base "should" cool the the GTX 1060 better than the Razer Blade 14" due to the Blade's shared heatsink with its CPU (using this comparison due to similar thickness of bases).
The CPU performance is a tougher question though because the i7-8xxxU + GTX 1060 or above is not a pairing that has been reviewed yet.
Yes, I think this is a first. Combining a decent gaming-class dGPU with a low-TDP CPU part.
It will be most interesting to read the reviews when this machine is used to run current triple-A gaming titles at decent resolutions and settings. Can a modern thermally-efficient low-power CPU run modern games well if it's combined with a proper GPU?
Personally, I can't wait to find out. I've got some doubts about whether this will ultimately compare well with gaming-targeted laptops fitted with much higher-TDP CPU chips, but, *appropriately or not*, the inclusion of the 1060 GPU in the 15-inch model will guarantee such comparisons will be made.
If it turns out that a lot of games run fine on the lower power cpu as long as the GPU is doing the heavy lifting, I can see myself being interested in one. A 2 pound sports coupe that plays my games acceptably well might be a very attractive alternative to my current little 6 pound tank, even with a minor (<10fps would be acceptable, otherwise, no) frame rate drop.
edit: I forgot to mention my concerns about repairability, though. These *very* compact machines have a dismal record with sites like ifixit on the issue of repairability, and I'm fearful that using a machine like this for a high-demand, punishing usage like extended gaming might (probably will) push the machine to and beyond its limits. If something breaks, not only can you likely not replace or repair it yourself, it may not be repairable at all. A reputable extended warranty would be mandatory in my opinion.
In my eyes, this might be the ultimate allround machine! I do wonder how the thermals will be and how loud it will be under load. Kinda cool to have a decent gaming laptop that can turn in to a tablet and you get the turn the display around to play games when you only use a controller.
Edit: According to the verge, the 13.5" doesn't have a cooling fan for the cpu... Also, would have been cool if they had released the MS Studio as monitor only with the MS Dock integrated in the base all running and powering the Book 2 over that MagSave thing.
Yes. Agreed, I want the studio Monitor and a book 2 13" maxed out....Should send a petition to Microsoft to make the surface monitor. the studio without the computer...but still have touch, pen and dial support! WOULD HAVE THAT IN A HOT SECOND.
If only it had a full power TB3 port!
Why Microsoft ?WHY!
It’s a almost perfect system for me but it’ll all come down to thermals and if it throttles in any way.
Will wait for reviews before going all in or not.
Is this a full GTX 1060 or Max Q version?
Every person I've talked with that has a Surface laptop for any length of time complains about it, has had it replaced at least once - or wishes they had - because who has time to deal with an RMA when you are a college student that depends on it for getting class work done. They deal with the crappy problems and keep chugging along.
"Consumer Reports is removing its “recommended” designation from four Microsoft laptops and cannot recommend any other Microsoft laptops or tablets because of poor predicted reliability in comparison with most other brands.
To judge reliability, Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers about the products they own and use. New studies conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center estimate that 25 percent of Microsoft laptops and tablets will present their owners with problems by the end of the second year of ownership.
The decision by Consumer Reports applies to Microsoft devices with detachable keyboards, such as the new Surface Pro released in June and the Surface Book, as well as the company’s Surface Laptops with conventional clamshell designs."
"
Microsoft and
Consumer Reports (
CR) have no love for each other of late with
CR putting a blanket decision in withdraw recommendations for Microsoft Surface laptops and tablets. The original Surface Book from Microsoft received the "Recommended" rating from
CR, only to see it retracted after the publication claimed that its surveys showed that there were issues in as many as 25% of all Surface Book laptops."
"With that blanket decision to not issue any "Recommended" ratings to Microsoft devices, this means that new Surface Book 2 won't receive the rating no matter how good it is.
CR spokesperson James McQueen wrote, "We will evaluate the performance of the Microsoft Surface Book 2 once we get it into our labs next month for testing, but we will not be able to recommend it.
Our decision to withhold our recommendation of all Microsoft laptops and tablets is still in effect."
If we're just contributing data points here, then here's mine. I've got a nice little Surface 2 (pro? not even sure) Tablet with an i5, 8gb, and 256gb ssd.
I used it lightly for a little over a year and gave it to my GF who needed it for work. She used it a bit more heavily for close to a year, and it stopped booting the day before she needed it for a big presentation, taking her latest (after midnight!) edits with it.
We weathered that crisis (thanks to OneDrive backups and my Alienware laptop), and after a month or so, she brought the Surface back to me (we had bought her a nice Dell convertible which she loves), to see if it was fixable.
I got it to boot, but it was reliably crashing moments after the desktop appeared.
Didn't feel like troubleshooting it, so I just reset it and reinstalled Windows on it. So far it's running fast and smooth, no problems.
So I don't know if that experience would count as an "issue" as mentioned by CR or not, but it was a relatively easy and, so far, effective fix.
I only got the Surface Pro 3 so far. But never had any issues. My friends wife bought the SFP4 following my advice and I look after her computer from time to time - also no problems there.
Might be we are just lucky as well.
Best regards
phila
I`m thinking about preodering the SFB2 as soon as possible (November 9th, over here).
The surface 3 keyboards I had were terrible...but that should not be an issue with the book. they were way to flexy. I love my dell much more than my surface 3. but the book 2 looks like a killer device!
No thunderbolt port is a bit of a drag. But, a 1060 on the 15” model has me interested. That would be powerful enough to play modern AAA games at 1080p. And the 95W to charge it would mean it’s possible to use an external battery to operate the device on the go.
I kinda figured it was. Notebook check says a 1060 max q runs between 60-70w. So you might be right. Microsoft likely undervolted it more. That does actually make me second guess getting one. . .hmm
Logging in to say just this. I’ve owned an Alienware 13r3 for the last year, and can actually “max q’d” my notebook by simply using a lower wattage Dell adapter. 90 watts to be exact, which is HALF the power of the included charger.
Gaming performance floats around 80-90% (title dependent) - so depending on your game, it could be a significant hit. But my Alienware runs MUCH cooler and quieter (obviously). I find it to be a pretty acceptable solution most of the time, except when trying to drive a 1440P external display. For 1080P, it works really well. I do find the Alienware will “battery boost” in this mode as well, but that’s because of the 45 watt CPU and GPU combo. Monitoring power draw in HWInfo shows the GPU caps out just under 60 watts, and the CPU basically turns off turbo boost (I don’t recall the power draw).
What would you use the TB3 port for? I honestly haven’t seen a point other than DOCKS, but if you have other ways to make it work, and considering the absurd price of docks (and eGPU solutions), I just don’t get the appeal of TB3. I feel like TB3 is a lot like buying a 4x4 or AWD vehicle...it’s something you like the idea of using, but rarely do.
Quoting myself here. I ordered the SB2 on Nov 9th, but then chickened out... rethought (because the 1050 is a mere sidegrade to the 965m and sports 2GB vRam only)... And then anded up preordering on Nov 12th (just in time before they went out of stock ove here). Now I almost cant wait for an update on the delivery status... and hope that UPS is as fast as allways. I hate to admit it, but for the first time Microsoft got me hyped with one of their products. And I am not sure that this is smoething good.
I understand the concerns with 1060 Max Q version, but in reality, the SB2 isn't meant to be a gaming power house. Thus maximizing battery life was a priority. I am eager to see the performance gap between the 1060 and 1060 Max Q version.
uhm, it has a full Surface Connect on the base of the tablet. Connected to a Surface Dock it should operate a second screen, other USB devices and etc shouldn't it?
nononono; the point is that you may want to use it as a tablet... without any base. In which case you cannot plug in any USB thumb drives, printers, SD cards, or even scanners on the go. Thumb drives being the biggest use case in business line of work.
It was supposed to be the ultimate 2 in 1 device; but in reality it is tethered to the base without real freedom as a tablet. I suspect M$ decided it would eat into Surface Pro sales too much if they gave it i/o (and better battery) on the tablet portion. Hopefully they improved on the 1 hour 20 min battery of the tablet portion for SB 2
I didn’t end up pre-ordering one. Want to see some reviews on this first. Still very much interested. What kept me from the first one was just how weak it was compared to how expensive it was. Not saying it’s not expensive now, but atleast with the unique form factor and features it’s a lot more justifiable. I might be leaning more towards the smaller model. Oh the wait and see game. Lol
The Verge says that wimpy power supply cannot provide enough power so when gaming, once both batteries get depleted, it disables the 1060. So sad....
"One issue I did run into with the Surface Book 2 is the power supply. Microsoft has only supplied a 102-watt charger with a machine that has an Nvidia GTX 1060 inside. Most similar laptops are gaming ones that have 150-watt or even 200-watt power supplies. There are two batteries inside the Surface Book 2, one in the base and one in the tablet portion (screen) itself. The base battery discharges too quickly with the supplied charger, meaning the Nvidia card (located in the base) will disconnect in the middle of a long gaming session at maximum performance even if you’re plugged in."
When I saw your post I started looking for proof that someone else besides the Verge was having this issue. Microsoft in the same article said they were going to give The Verge a new power adapter as they think it's faulty. I haven't found anyone else having this issue. Yet. . .
Right now it seems there is a Microsoft store near me. So if they have any in stock tommorrow I'll try and pick one up. Though I'm sure they'll be out of stock by the time I get there.
"And this brings up a rather peculiar, surprising issue. The supplied power adaptor can deliver 95W of power. The Surface Dock, too, can deliver around 90W. Under heavy load, however, the Surface Book 2 can draw more than 95W. How does it do this? Simple—it supplements the power it's pulling from the wall with the power in the batteries. If you're running an intensive game, or punishing benchmarks such as 3DMark's Time Spy, the battery in the base will slowly drain even when the Surface Book 2 is plugged in. Once the base battery gets low enough, the discrete GPU will be turned off."
"This is surprising. I could easily imagine packing up the laptop after a gaming session and assuming it'll be fully charged—after all, it has been plugged into the wall—only to discover that the battery is nearly empty. What I don't understand here is why Microsoft's chargers are underspecified. The processor can draw 25W in its high-power mode (it can even burst to 35W for very short periods); depending on which variant of the 1060 Microsoft is using, that can draw either 80W or 70W (for the lower-power "Max Q" variant). So that's as much as a (sustained) 105W just for the two processors. To that you need to add the screen, memory, SSD, and all the other bits and pieces in the system."
"In short, this is a machine that should have shipped with a charger of maybe around 150W. At the very least, it should provide enough power to keep the batteries from discharging when under heavy load, and, frankly, I think it should be possible to
charge the batteries even during gaming. But, with the charger Microsoft has supplied, there's simply no way of doing that. If I were to hazard a guess, I wonder if 100W or thereabouts is the upper limit to Microsoft's proprietary Surface Connect port, and Microsoft chose to keep the port unmodified (to provide continued compatibility with the Surface Dock) rather than uprate it to handle the demands of the new machine. If that hunch is correct, I think this was the wrong choice. Not least because someone dropping $2,499 or more on the system can probably spring for a new, high-power Surface Dock if they really have to."
Link for another (video) reviewer deleted.
EDIT:
Apologize, the guy in the video actually had battery drain with the surface dock. Sorry about my initial inaccurate characterization of what was in the video, I removed it.
That’s really disappointing. I had high hopes for the Surface Book 2 15”. Seemed like a great work horse that could double as a gaming device during down time. Really disappointed to see that they crippled it out of the gate with a small power supply. They’re going to get a lot of RMAs and returns because of this.
Well. . .maybe the 13.5” model doesn’t have this problem. But, I think the 1050 would be too weak for my gaming needs.
I really want to know the logic behind them making this choice? I mean they advertise the laptop being capable of gaming. So they know it draws more power than the power supply can handle. I figure maybe you could use a USB C charger with a higher Wattage. But, I can’t find any clear evidence that it’s possible. One review says you can but doesn’t test it. And another flat out says charging by usb c isn’t enabled.
I agree. It feels like they really just wanted to check off a box. We have a 1060 in our laptop! Take that Apple!
I wasn’t aware that battery boost was a wear on the battery?
Ars Technica:
"And this brings up a rather peculiar, surprising issue. The supplied power adaptor can deliver 95W of power. The Surface Dock, too, can deliver around 90W. Under heavy load, however, the Surface Book 2 can draw more than 95W. How does it do this? Simple—it supplements the power it's pulling from the wall with the power in the batteries. If you're running an intensive game, or punishing benchmarks such as 3DMark's Time Spy, the battery in the base will slowly drain even when the Surface Book 2 is plugged in. Once the base battery gets low enough, the discrete GPU will be turned off."
I’ve been trying to see if I can find anything about that myself. So far I haven’t found anyone making that claim yet. But, it might be because everyone is excited for the new 15” model.
I think the 13.5” model is only passively cooled for the cpu though. So you would get throttling on the cpu on the 13.5” model.
The Surface Book 2 arrived yesterday at the early afternoon. So far I am perfecty amazed. The 3D options of nvidia control are not that good, but the rest is flawless. I could not imagine how light the tablet part is and how super smooth the interaction via digitizer! Best of all: How quiet this small thing is.
best regards
phila
l did only do a little gaming under full load. There was no drain so far. But I will report back. Still I found out you can undervolt the GPU a good deal via Afterburner. 1506 @ 0,875 mV.
This is true. CPU is actively cooled. But it is very quiet.
Oh man... I am SO SORRY! Just read that the tablet part ist passiely cooled. I was irretated about the louvers around the tablet... Still Notebookceck made the same mistake (kinda consoling on my end...)
Wait I was right? Oh man I'm never right. Lol. And it's all good. I thought I saw somewhere saying the 13.5" was passively cooled since the cpu score was lower than the 15" model.
Bestbuy got some Surface Book 2's in stock. So I'm going to have a 15" in my possession by tomorrow. I'll be chiming back in to let everyone know about the battery drain and first impressions when I do.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
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