Good Idea, Bad Idea: Just Linux

I know of few forums with active discussions on Linux and its many distributions so I have come here to seek answers. Most topics I have browsed through seem to deal only with dual booting and careful partitioning of a hard drive. I am curious to know if abandoning Windows and becoming a Linux user is a safe and worthwhile investment. Security is a very big issue for me.

For some time now, I have been contemplating whether to purchase a No OS system and installing Linux. I would like nothing made by Micro$oft to ever touch the machine. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? In addition, is PC-BSD a viable option as well? Any and all answers/advice appreciated.

 

It's fine if you can get by without any Windows-based software (or at least Windows-based software that can't be run using WINE). If you do have Windows-based software that you could not do without though, it would not be a good idea.

 

1. Linux is very secure, but there is a learning curve.

2. It is much safer than microsoft windows since the operating systems are build totally different. In linux many ports are blocked by default which means linux is much safer.

3. Personal opinion: If you think you will be willing to learn linux, you will find that its much more easily operated than windows although there are some set backs in the areas of compatability issues.

4. 40 or sum what viruses for linux vs. 400,000 viruses from windows...you go figure.

5. Linux looks pretty with the new compiz fusion, actually it looks better than the new feline...haha!

Start with a distribution like Ubuntu, you will learn so much from their forums and the people there are very helpful, oh yeah and you could request a free cd although the shipping does take 3 to 4 weeks :S but its free.

Oh and if you play games, a lot of games can be found with linux, and they are FREE, although not many can be compared with the recent big games lk crysis or cod4.

Only downside: you have to learn...

 

Agreed. While it certainly supports dual-booting better than Windows does, Linux wasn't made to be a "second fiddler." There is very little that Windows can do that Linux can't do for free, and it is perfectly viable as a sole operating system.

 

Try Ubuntu, good beginner's Linux.

 

4. Yeah, but look at it this way, would you write a credit card stealing program if it was only going to be used by <5% of the population? Not likely, you need to hit the OS most people are using. But I'm sure that if Linux was the majority we would see many more viruses.

5. Here here!! Linux had all this stuff before Windows and MAC. Everyone complains Vista copies OS X but OS X has been copying Linux, not so high now are we MAC people? Complaining when someone copies you but you keep quiet when you copy someone.
P.S. I hate Apple.

Ubuntu is a great starter's distribution (request free cd or burn one yourself) and their forum is amazing, and the free programs really makes you want to get out there and make something to give back, problem is, most of it's already done....

 

Awesome! Thanks for the input guys!

Two more questions, if I may. Are there any anti-virus or security suites available for Linux, and is PC-BSD a relatively unknown OS?

 

1- PC-BSD is making BSD easier but I've tried it and I 've had a couple of problems, especially with video drivers. You'll get better hardware support with Linux.

2-There are some AV (ClamAV, Panda, AVG, F-Prot, BitDefender,etc.) for Linux but you don't really need one. It's up to you.

 

Thank you for clearing that up, John B. I was not exactly sure if BSD had as much support as Linux. I would feel at ease if I had an anti-virus program installed as I have had terrible experience with a few of the 400,000 Windows viruses.

 

re: sole OS, if I didn't want to run a couple of particular games, I could get my vertical market tax programs to run under linux I think....gaming is what keeps me at dual boot.

EDIT: I've got my tax programs running in a VMware XP Pro vitual machine....Vista is shrinking to a gaming OS boot....

 

What exaclty are you referring to here? What specifically are you saying that OS X has been copying from Linux?

The only thing I can think of might be the virtual desktops implementation in OS X 10.5, but that is not something unique to Linux either (virtual desktops were developed back in the 80's, and there were numerous implementations and versions of the concept, including one developed for the Mac back in 1986).

Either way, one of the significant innovations added in OS X's virtual desktops implementation, Spaces, was the ability to expand out a few of all the desktops at once and drag windows back and forth between them, etc.

Note that both this and OS X's "Expose" feature (to automatically show all windows at once, etc.) were "copied" as UI options in Compiz Fusion.

It would also be hard not to mention that OS X of course still has its roots in NeXTStep, which had a number of UI innovations of its own that are still influential today in other windowing systems.

So yes, I know you hate Macs and all, but if you're going to throw accusations around, it would probably be a good to at least be a bit more specific.

One of the big things with OS and UI design is that many things are "copied" from others; once you develop a good UI innovation, it ends up being sort of "out there".

I think when looking at OS X, Windows, Linux or any other OS, the question becomes how much of the UI is copied from what came before, and how much can they take credit for as new user interface concepts?

Compiz Fusion is certainly neat, but a lot of it is in fact stuff copied from OS X or Vista. Again, nothing wrong with this, but it puts a damper on someone like you who is going to argue that Vista and OS X are "ripping off" Linux.

-Zadillo

 

If you want to install Clam AV for Linux, feel free. Most people typically just install it to scan their mail, though. The problem with virus scanners is that they're retro-active... they only scan for things they know about. So they're a good second line of defense.

Anyway, with Linux, things aren't executable unless you specifically change them to be so. It's not like Windows where any file that ends with exe or vbs or bat or com or... (you get the picture) is executable. So that stops a lot of the virus threat right there. Also, Linux (and all applications on it) is built from the standpoint of running apps as the user, rather than a super user (administrator/root). So the system is designed to be run like Vista is trying to. The problems people are having with Vista are often related to badly designed applications.

Anyway, it's completely possible to be Windows-free. The only one (of 4) computers that I own that boots into Windows only does so for games, which is my laptop. Everything else is Linux only, and I can do everything under Linux that I want to. Even more than under Windows with programs like MythTV and such.

 

I use only Linux on my computers. The last time I actually opened Windows Xp in VirtualBox was to make a demo screenshot. I have not had to actually use Windows for anything during the first semester of college.

 

If you want to try Ubuntu but can't figure out how to burn a CD or don't want to wait 3-4 weeks, you can buy a CD online for about $5 shipped, and it will be shipped out just like any other product, so for only $5 you can get it in a few days rather than a few weeks.

 

Ubuntu is great. I started off dual booting. Once I got use to Linux I never boot into Windows any more. Before buying make sure the hardware is supported with Linux. Linux's big problem is not all the manufacturers are willing to open support for Linux. If you have all supported hardware Linux is easier than Windows in dealing with hardware. Non supported hardware can be a hassle and have bugs in the support.

 

Applications and Drivers are the biggest reasons most(including myself) don't exclusively use Linux.

 

Your signature indicates you have the same laptop I have

THINKPAD T61 Model 6459CTO INTEL CORE 2 DUO with Window XP Pro from factory
15.4 WUXGA TFT WIDESCREEN-1Y, NVIDIAQUAD FX 570M W/WWAN, Bluetooth, GigE
4 GB Geil RAM, 120 GB Hitachi 7200 RPM HDD

I am UNABLE to get Ubuntu 7.10 installed. I have spend several days working on it. I tried the tips here: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Install_Ubuntu_Gutsy_Gibbon_on_a_T61p

No luck. How did you manage to get Ubuntu working with the nVidia 570M?

UPDATE: I finally got it. Can't offer anyone else the magic tip because there wasn't one. It just took persistence and many tries.

 

My experience has been the opposite. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=563349

 

Ubuntu 7.10 is working great on my T61, no issues at all.

At work I have to use Windows. On my personal computers, the only time I need Windows is for very specific things.

* Some web sites and web applications will only work on Internet Explorer.

* Working with multimedia, like grabbing movies from my mini-dv camera, is much easier on the PC because the software is more mature. Same with images - Gimp is nice, but the learning curve is steep. Sometimes I get frustrated and switch to Photoshop just to get something done quickly.

* Compiz is prone to crashing and lockups still. I think it's still beta software so it's to be expected.

* Games.

Anyway I think that one could safely move 100% to Linux at this point. There are some inconveniences but there's usually a work-around.

 

unless you're looking to game, you can do virtually anything in linux that you can in windows xp/vista

 

and that is the issue... many people blame the OS on user issues.

I've never had a virus on my computers.... I'm not a genius or lucky, I use a Virtual PC to cruise sites I don't trust.

But the cool thing is your system will be more secure since you can't download all the spyware and crapware to your computer to infect it... with windows people download tons of "free" stuff and it mucks up their computer.

 

jtmat I'm like you, the virus problems I've had I can count on one hand. If you're safe you won't get burned.

But listen to this... I just did a few months ago by accident.

I installed XP Pro on a partition on my home machine. Totally clean install with SP2, so I could have a small Windows install in case I needed it.

Then I opened up a share with full world read/write so I could copy my files to it. It took about 90 minutes to copy everything. But then I forgot to turn off the share.

Guess what - the next day I had malware. My virus scanner caught it. It was unreal to me it could happen that fast, but there you go. One mistake and you're toast.

FYI I wiped the partition and did a clean install again, this time without an open share.

Greg.

 

One word of advice, here. Certain distros enable Wine by default (my Kanotix does so), and that could mean that accidentally clicking on a file in a windows partition could set it off and that could do some damage.

It happened to me with the live CD when I still had the "open with a single click" behavior. I was just trying to open a folder, since it didn't open up I clicked again on it (I thought the touchpad did not register my touch), but what happened was that the folder was waiting to appear and my second click was interpreted as a click on an exe file in my C: disk.
Wine showed up and the file was executed before I realized what was happening.

It did no harm, but I wonder: what if that file were a virus and I had write enabled the partition?
Ok, the fault was mine, but I would make sure not to have Wine enabled by default with the "open with a single click" behavior.

(Also I hate the fact that a click on a window will apply on the content of the window yet to be shown).

 

Love your nick, Sredni. I saw the old TV adaptation when I was a child. I still think red thoughts, sometimes.

Kanotix has grown to become Sidux, a much better implementation of Sid. Most viruses and malware take advantage of obscure implementation details in the host OS. Many Windows malware run in Wine will fail, because there isn't enough "real Windows" present for it to live. Perhaps a keylogger could still cause problems if it would run.

 

I'm not actually worried about gaming with Linux as there are plenty of free browser based games. In my younger computing years, I was not careful and downloaded software like a fiend. I fried my dad's '96 VAIO desktop. I'm careful nowadays. I do not like the fact that certain distros enable Wine by default. That's crock. The user should have complete control over such software.

Somewhat off-topic: I have done some extensive searching and discovered that there are OTHER alternatives to Windows besides MAC OS, Linux, BSD, and Solaris. Yes, you read that right -- alternatives to alternatives. Some are not geared towards the home desktop user (hobbyists, hackers) while others aspire to be full-fledged operating systems fighting for market share. Pretty awesome stuff.

 

Hey picoshark....I've done a live CD of the latest Sidux release, which I think is pretty impressive. It recognized my intel wireless 4965 in the desktop, and when I clicked install to check it out, it said it couldn't load the iwlwifi driver...is that because I need to be cable connected? will Sidux download it if I'm cable connected? Pretty slick distro.....would like to know.

 

Yes, Sidux is pretty strict on only including free stuff with it, but they have some very slick scripts to install non-free (wifi, Nvidia/ATI). You do have to be online to get it. I got a Thinkpad from work, I looked at XP for about two days, formatted it and installed Sidux. I use it for non-free Intel on 3945abg wifi with no problem. They have several apps to connect with wifi, I would recommend WLassistant (wireless assistant).

Read their Manual, it includes pretty specific instructions for doing it. The Manual is included with the CD, and is also available online.

 

Yes, I was reading on their site that they follow licensing agreements strictly, and don't think it's too much to connect a cable the first time to get the drivers. A few guys were saying the problem with that is many users will simply move on to the next distro when they can't get on the net wirelessly right away, which is probably true though. Those driver restrictions are scary, they could bring down linux....hope Gates isn't reading this

Sidux is a very slick distribution.

 

The driver issue is a sticky one. Some, like Mint don't care and even include win32 codecs. They are not in USA, so it's easy for them to say We Don't Care! Fedora/Redhat stopped including MP3 support a long time ago. The problem of course is with restrictive software licenses, and manufacturers that won't release driver specs.

Joe Average doesn't ever install Windows anymore. The old machine gets slow and bogged down with cruft, Windows is always on the new machine. Where most people here are probably more tweakers, Joe Average will be put off by having to do _anything_ to get Linux to work like he wants it. The fact that Nvidia/ATI make the vast majority of video cards now does not help. Some Distros are including free video drivers, but the very act of having to do anything will convince Joe Average that 'Linux sucks'.

We've all seen the symptoms of computers decaying during their life, this is an old but still very valid funny comment on that.

 

Ehehe.
I haven't seen any TV adaptation, but "Sredni Vashtar" is maybe the best short story I ever read. And "The Open Window" has the best punch line ever.

It seems to me that kanotix is still alive, somewhat.
My latest edition was realeased on xmas eve, last year.
But I will check Sidux out, it could become my laptop distro, if it shares the same philosophy (an almost clean Debian install) and has a better support (in terms of updating).

I was thinking of a virus that could have infected other exe files on the C: disk. At the subsequent reboot I would have run an infected exe.

 

Sredni, Sidux has carried me through 40 kernel updates, with nary a glitch. There is an online update that will apt-get and warn us of the evils that apt-get dist-upgrade could bestow.

I work with security online, and Ed Skoudis opines about Malware. Some bad programs could infect dozens of apps.

I never double-click on anything, but that's just me.

My Motto? Try Them All!