Do your part. Help Linux keep Microsoft from owning the world!!!!

Okay, for those of you who don't know, there is some trouble brewing in the FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) world right now. Recently, Microsoft struck a deal with SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) owner Novell in which the companies exchange some money and promote each other's products (sort of). For more information, read this thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=1669513#post1669513

Now, if you read the thread and the attached links and so on, it becomes clear rather quickly that Microsoft is making a move once and for all to instill fear in Linux users that some of Microsoft's Intellectual Property is somehow included in the Linux kernel, and that all Linux users are basically breaking the law and cheating MS out of some $$$. It is the belief of many that this is a move on the part of Microsoft to attempt to crush the Open Source community in order to completely dominate the market. Now, whether or not you currently or ever have used Linux is kind of unimportant right now. Microsoft is currently on a plan to take over the computer world and squash all competition, and this is never good for the consumer.

Now, what can you do, and why? You can move as far from Microsoft as possible. I understand that for most people, completely removing Windows is not an option; it's not for me unfortunately. There is no AutoCAD for Linux, so I'm stuck. However, reducing usage and increasing Linux usage might make old M$ take a step back for a minute. There are several things that you can do. First, you can move away from Microsoft software. Instead of MS Office, try OpenOffice ( www.openoffice.org). Instead of IE, try Firefox ( www.mozilla.com/firefox) or Opera ( www.opera.com). Instead of Outlook Express, try Thunderbird ( www.mozilla.com/thunderbird). In addition, try to use more FOSS if possible such as the AIM replacement GAIM ( gaim.sourceforge.net), the Photoshop replacement GIMP ( www.gimp.org), and so on. In addition, try checking out Linux. There are several distributions available to suit so many kinds of people, and if you need help, it is much easier and more personal than any help you can get for Windows. If you have questions, post them up here, and I'm sure people will get to them as they can.

This may be a lot to ask, but I feel that it's a worthy cause. The lack of competition that Microsoft is hoping to introduce is nothing but bad news for the consumer. Over the past few years, Microsoft has shown that they have become a little too big for their own good; everything from the exorbitant Vista prices to the Windows Genuine Advantage fiasco shows that Microsoft is getting further and further from the consumer. Like anything else that becomes too cocky for its own good, Microsoft needs a gut-check, and it's up to the community to give it to them.

Here are my other, more specialized requests. First, it would be nice if this thread were made a sticky so that it will be easy to monitor and access and easy for people to share information. Second, if you support this, put a link to the thread in your sig. It would be nice if someone would come up with a nice banner or something, similar to one that the ATi overclocking team has over in the gaming section; I'll try to knock something out. And thirdly, just try to spread the word. I'm not say we need to get rid of Windows... but Windows shouldn't be trying to get rid of everything else either. Thanks for reading.

--notebook_ftw

 

the link to openoffice.org is wrong, it leads you to "http://www.openoffice.org)/"

you need to delete the close bracket



is lunix a free OS?

EDIT: all of your links except firefox has the extra close bracket

 

Thanks for that heads up; they're fixed now.

In general, Linux is a free OS. The kernel (base code common to all distributions) is free and open source and is built, edited, and maintained by the community. However, some distributions are not free, such as Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, Red Hat Enterprise, and Linspire. Some distributions come at a price for several reasons, one being that they may offer official tech support. Another is that they may include certain software that is not free within the Operating System. But as a general assumption, your major Desktop Linux Operating Systems are free and open source.

 

I must admit, Linux is wonderful and I enjoyed my time using it especially since I could play ut2004 on it. Only problem is, some casual users would find Linux *extremely* user unfriendly as many pieces of software don't work and the console, well, that's a whole new dimension for some people. It's for a good cause, I agree, but I suppose I'll stick with OSX for now. Hope you get a great response.

 

Using Mac is a good option too since it would be easier to use and it's competition for M$. You can get most Linux distros free though and Ubuntu is a great one to use especially since you can get the cd's sent to your house.

I'm done with M$ myself so my vote's with you. I'm using Ubuntu on my desktop and I'll be getting a Macbook the end of the year.

 

You're getting a Macbook? Another one joining the Mac community, beautiful. Be careful if you're using that in your lap. It still gets hot even with the new C2D.

OSX, think Linux, but easier to use.

 

The Macs are great, but if you want to put the squeeze on Microsoft, linux is the only OS available for windows machines. And since there is far greater variety in windows notebooks, that market is always going to be bigger. Lets face it, some people want to game on a portable and you cannot do that on a Macbook with an integrated GPU. Plus people want 12 inch and 14 inch screens which mac does not have right now.

Notebook_ftw I think you have something going hear, check your PM I sent some suggestions. I think it would be really good if we could get a guide togather that could rate the distros on hardware support, ease of use and that sort of thing. it would also be good if we could come up with some video guides, for installation and download of the main distros.
below is a suggested format for the definitions, but it should not be considered unchangeable. of course this is just a clip, every thing would be longer and more drawn out, but this gives you an idea. Tell me what you think.


Ubuntu
Ease of download 9\10
Hardware support 8\10
Stability 9\10
Community help available 9\10
Ubuntu is an Excellent distros. It offers superb stability, in its 6.06 LTS version, and is relatively easy to download. for download instruction go to________.
and then maybe a list of forums and anything else you can think of.

 

Personally, I think Mac is a great way to fight MS as well. It's a great solution for those users who aren't brave enough to switch to Linux. It's not as great a punch as Linux, but simply because Microsoft hates Open Source more than they hate other Operating Systems. But seriously, Mac fans should be proud that they are helping provide the market with competition. That's what it's all about, and that's what I'm really trying to get across here. Linux isn't the only way to do that.

By the way, the OP was written at 3 a.m. and doesn't really convey exactly what I had in mind. The point I was really trying to express is that competition is vital to any market, and computers are no different. Any competition you can give to Microsoft, the better.

 

Great idea. Give micro$oft a good ol' punch to the nose! I'd also recomend not supporting the sellout, Novell and SuSE, either. I'm nuking the Suse partitions off my PC's as we speak. Lappy is next on the list.

Go Linux, Go Open Source! And this is the first time I've ever said this: GO MAC!!!

 

Glad to see people are getting the enthusiasm. If it weren't for gaming, I would nuke Windows all together. I don't have the will to pay for Cedega.

Yeah, my SUSE DVD is going to see Mr. Garbage Man.

 

How is WINE for gaming?

 

Not good. I've yet to get into anything hairy though, but I tried installing Halo, and it installed fine once I got a certain dll file that I needed. But it wouldn't run; it kept crashing X. It should be noted however that running Beryl in Linux means you don't game; this could be my problem. Beryl/Compiz screws with X and keeps OpenGL things from working correctly, so I can't even get native Linux games to work so far.

 

hmm, thats a shame. There should be a way to disable compiz/beryl though, right?

 

I've used Wine for gaming and it usually works well.

 

Nope. Not that I know of anyway. The only way is to uninstall it, but I haven't tried that yet as I'm sure it will destroy my X configuration, and I don't feel like going through that again right now. Oh well. It's not as bad as the last time when I had a problem with DirectX in Windows, tried to use the XP repair console to fix XP, but that fried my install and I lost all my information and had to reinstall. That was fun. I thought Windows was supposed to "just work."

 

I interned at Microsoft, and the way you talk about the company, IMO is blatant mis-representation

 

When Microsoft minds its own business people do not really care what it does, but when Microsoft starts accusing people of stealing their patents and playing the bully they played with Apple, Then that gets people upset. There is a small but swiftly growing number of people who are deciding not to put up with Microsoft any more. Those are the people you will find in the linux and mac forums.

I am not sure what you think we are misrepresenting Microsoft for, we simply see MS as trying to destroy as much competition as they can. And if that means getting rid of Linux well, they will do it. If it bothers you that we do not want to see that happen and will do our best to keep it from happening.... thats the principle of competition. We are simply trying to give Microsoft a little competition. It has been proven over and over again in history that when something, or someone, gains a monopoly the environment effected suffers. To a small extent we saw that in the USA government and, even though I support the Republican party, because it had gained a monopoly on our government we suffered for it. And we will have the same problem if the Democrats gain the majority in all branches of government. Our capitalistic nation simply runs best when there are check and balances.

All of this combined, it is best for there to be a check on Microsoft's power, Linux and Apple are those checks. We are simply trying to maintain that balance in this forum. If you still do not see were we are coming from.... I guess in around 6 years from now you will be one of those angry Democrats turned Republican if we get a Democratic president.

 

I am not your typical Linux user. I have no problem with a company such as Microsoft making their closed-source pay-for software. Those guys went to school for several years to get where they are, they deserve all the money that they earn. What I do have a problem with is Microsoft blaming Linux of stealing their Intellectual Property and including it in the Linux kernel and providing no reasoning why they believe this to be true. I have a problem with them trying to tell me that by using Linux I am breaking the law and am somehow committing some ill-deed against the company. I have been a voice for Microsoft for the past year or so. I have been using Vista since Beta 2 and had rejoiced its numerous new features and abilities when others (Windows fans) were shunning it. I was strongly considering buying an Xbox360 and a Zune. But when I read Steve Ballmer's transcript about how basically Novell customers were the only ones that have the right to run Linux "legally," my mind changed very quickly. While I have long respected Windows for its compatibility and attempt to bring computers to everyone, it never compared to Linux in anything besides gaming and compatibility. But I used it and sang its praises when they deserved singing.

But like I said, that changed last night. It suddenly became very clear to me after reading around for ten minutes that Microsoft was blatantly attempting to undermine and accuse the Open Source community of illegal actions. And let's be completely honest here; Microsoft's nose is nowhere near clean when it comes to "stealing" other people's Intellectual Property. I already pointed out the similarity between Vista's new Aero cursors and Ubuntu's cursors, but this is only the beginning. The entire UI of Vista contains small features that can be attributed to Mac OS X. The Zune (and Zune program) is basically a Microsoft rehash of the iPod with a few new features added in; I don't see Apple trying to accuse Microsoft of breaking the law. The fact is, that the more and more I look at it, the more I realize that Microsoft wants to control everything. They can't stand competition. They've infected themselves into the Apple community by making many of their applications OS X compatible and allowing users to run XP on Apple computers. They've gone after the iPod craze several times in the past, but the Zune is the closest thing they have come to trying to wipe iPod out of the market. They tried to capitalize on the success of console video games via Xbox. They've entered the hardware world by making peripherals such as mice, keyboards, controllers, etc. They even swooped in and stole the handheld market from Palm with Windows CE. They just can't let anything go. It's either all Microsoft or they're pissed, and I just finally realized that I didn't want Microsoft to own half the world.

Let's face it, Microsoft pretty much gets what it wants. Everybody is scared to piss them off because they have such a monopoly on the market. Everyone, that is, except the Linux/GNU community. Why? Because we have nothing to fear. The beauty of open source is that if Microsoft finally does find something that can be legally claimed as theirs, it can be quickly removed from the kernel and an entire world of developers can come in to find another solution. And, the community is not out for money. And that's what scares Microsoft. They're so used to being able to force their way at a company, and when the company loses enough profits, they'll acquiesce. But it's not that way with the GNU/Linux community. There is no company; no profit. And Microsoft is trying to fight it the only way they know how... and it's dirty. Shame on them.

 

Depending on how you set it up, you can choose to have XGL running or not. I have a choice of XGL/Non-XGL sessions, defaulting into XGL. When I game, I shift-backspace and choose the non-XGL session. Still, it will be nice once both nVidia and ATi fully support AIGLX, whereby you can run both Compiz/Beryl and OpenGL apps at once,

I now have no Windows partition on my laptop. Got it loaded with spyware last weekend and finally decided "Fudge it!" Out you go! Goodbye Battle for Middle Earth 2, I'll miss you. Only games that run on Linux from now on.

And, back on topic...

If there is anything I could do to help fight the good fight, I try and do it. I am going to announce now that I am willing to travel to anywhere in the Sydney area to install Linux on someone's machine, FREE OF CHARGE! (Unless they want to buy me a drink or something) and provide phone support for all issues I can. I've installed a lot of Linux distros, from Mandriva to Gentoo, and am happy to try and convert anyone.

I suppose we could form a "NBR Users Against MS Monopoly" group or something.

 

Burn a spindle of Ubuntu LiveCDs, give them out with brief instructions and support websites.

As an official Ubuntu whore... I will also recommend: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing

 

Hey that is pretty good. pity my CD burner just broke

 

Having just read that Balmer article, I'm wondering, to what intellectual property does he refer? It sounded like Microsoft's deal was to give Suse an edge with proprietary, closed software that would do things with Windows software... maybe that's what he was talking about. Ugly stuff, all around.

 

Dammit, now I'll have to remove SLED from my laptop and install something else.
Debian perhaps.
I wonder how the Suse users are taking this news.

 

Here's the thing. If Microsoft had gone about this a different way, I would be happy with it. A little concerned of course (after all, it is Microsoft), but after hearing Ballmer's speech, I am 100% the other way. Would it be great if stuff that worked with Linux worked with Windows easier? Absolutely. But up until now, we have relied on the ingenuity and perserverence of open source programmers to get us to where we are today (which is a far better place than even a few years ago when I first became interested in Linux). I would rather just deal with this stuff than trust Microsoft.

As for SUSE users, it appeared from the link wearetheborg gave in the other thread that the feelings are mixed. A lot of them seemed to be happy at first, but others were definitely walking in with a cynical outlook and some were saying already that they were going to remove SUSE from their computers. Hopefully I'll have time to read the full thread later. Either way, I just don't trust M$ this time.

 

How are Suse users taking it? I nuked that tratorous piece of crapware off my disk. Right now I'm trying to decide between Fedora Core 6 and Elive.

 

http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=26319&st=0

 

I am a noob when it comes to Linux but competition is always good. 600$ for the Ultimate version of Vista is just too much in my opinion, maybe some good competition from Mac and Linux can bring that price down to 300-400$.

Charlie

 

Wow is it really $600 for the ultimate windows, that is an awful lot of money. I would rather just get a new laptop with linux on it, LOL.

 

Charlie, if you're ever curious about linux, I'd be glad to try to help you

 

+1 .

 

+2

 

Thanks for the great support guys!

I am very busy with my study these times, hopefully during the vacation I will spent some time with Linux.

Charlie

 

@all

Yes! Stop Microsoft from creating lawsuits against open-source by using open-source! Linux (any distro), OpenOffice, and Firefox\Thunderbird are all better than the Microsoft competitors anyway!

 

I don't really see why the 'rag' is on for Suse here. There is an open source version you can download and use, as well as the enterprise version. IMO, it is one of the easiest distros to use, right now. Using the open source version doesn't include some necessary files and utilities to play movies, but they're all easily downloadable and installable through Yast2 as easy as anything else, you just have to add a few install sources.

Suse is trying to make money through support, something M$ has an aversion to, support, not the money. Microsoft doesn't like to provide support to it's userbase. They just seem to listen to internet complaints until they feel there are enough complaints to take action on a particular problem and even then they take much longer than an open source community would to correct a problem. Just check out some MS forums and you'll see what I'm talking about. MS even 'screws' over corporate support groups and have no qualms about it. Invalidating copies of XP on 200+ sized networks through a 'patch' seems to be a normal occurance for them...and they don't feel like they're hurt by it.

Don't dog on Suse for doing what it is entitled to do with Linux. Open Source is "free as in speech, not free as in beer" and you can still download an entirely functional OS with Novell's Suse Open Source Edition. Like I said, the add-ons to make it fully functional (window's style) are simple and people besides Novell support it. Just takes a couple 'clicky-clickies' to accomplish and gives the user a little background on how the system operates, which they will need in the long run.

People in this thread have applauded Mac OS's and well, ya know, it's all linux there. Mac has made some 'agreements' with the open source community...open up a terminal window in OS X...ya see what you have there? Yeah, that's, more than likely, a bash prompt staring at you. Is Mac running Cygwin?!?! 0.o Nope, it's running linux. What do you think windows is moving to now? I'll give you a hint, it's not Windows.

To me, the most interesting thing about all of this is going to see how the linux community comes back at windows if they try to claim all "havence" on code. Which is what MS is probably trying to situate themselves to do. Let's face it, though...the *nix community is chock full of geeks that understand nothing better then systems and outcomes, and if they don't stomp I will impale my face, through the nose, with a sharpened number 2. Thankfully, some wonderful people have already been planning for things like this, you can look them up quite simply with a search, and there are now some large contributors, including computer manufacturers.

Just because this quote is overdone, but imo, not overdone enough..."Windows is a 32 bit extension to a 16 bit shell for an 8 bit operating system written on a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company that cant stand 1 bit of competion" -anonymous...this sums up MS and their tactics...there software is only usable b/c other people have written it. All along the MS path to 'domination' you'll see their buyout of decent companies that were forced to sell out....my point, though....Suse isn't necessarily "selling out"...the system is decent...it's not windows, it's linux....and it's really simple. I can install the thing for my grandmom and she can run it as well as windows...I mean really....all she cares about is email and the internet. She doesn't even watch pr0n, I don't think... o.0.

I personally like Suse, thank ya, but I prefer Slackware or a BSD distro. Suse has come closer, closer than Ubuntu, even, imo...at producing an "install all" distro that installs and performs "right out of the box", as it were. In fact, while wearing my "No, I won't fix your computer" t-shirt, I will more than likely install Suse Open Source on your comp if asked. Only reason I'm looking forward to Vista is to see all the dastardly things that the "h4x0r-cr4ckz0r" community is going to do with it...

...windows will eventually realize that they were, in fact, beaten to the punch on developing a usuable desktop...it only remains to see if the usable desktop OSes will step up to the plate and take them on...so don't rag on Suse, they're doing what they can...and remember ADHD is evolution, not a problem.

 

LOL, thats pretty good, I'l have to use that some time. I think that the concern is, by essentially selling out to Microsoft SUSS has allowed an inroad for Microsoft to make claims on the certain aspects of linux. Which could eventually make Linux a very difficult OS to obtain or use legally. that is probably the main reason why most of us will not use SUSS or its products.

 

The proof is in the pudding, as it were...and you can still download the open source version of Suse for no charge....you can't call an 800 number for help, but the internet is still a veritable oyster, like it's always been for *nix.

MS, at this point, imo, is trying to play a game with Suse....they're going to exchange information, which may prove benificial to the *nix community, as a whole. It's a step that needs to be done, and I personally like that Novell has taken it on.

Worst case scenario...Novell sells the Suse trademark after 'playin'' with MS and Suse starts over again with a new team that isn't involved with MS. MS at that point will have nothing, but the small portion of code Suse has contributed to the *nix community, and *nix will have what MS has given Suse....Novell just needs to play this all right.

*nix isn't a new OS...GNU isn't new....Xorg w/ xwindows isn't new...they're all older than MS...and their 'agreements', which are just as binding as MS's have been around longer. MS is trying a 'but what we meant with XP was you could only transfer once....blah blah". This is obvious to people who read, as is this situation with Suse.

Besides...with the inroads made on installation by all the distros, any other distro could incorporate them, as of now...and MS couldn't do anything about it. It's all free now...and until someone shows me some proof of Suse doing more than 'playin'' with MS and actually limiting my choice in, erm choices in my OS...I don't care what they do with MS. Anything MS can take from Suse is moot. What will they get? Yast? How many installation/update systems are there right now? Seriously? As the liscenses are written, right now....I could copy Yast, change a couple of things and call it Gast and sell support...the beauty is in the system of Open Source and MS is going to have to take down every, stinkin', single one of these people that come up with their own distro....and just because of that, more people will come up with a new distro, just for a piece of the MS ineptitude...this is just mo, of course, though.

 

Linux has a lot of fiercely independent users and developers who won't stand down from the OS platform just like that. Even if Microsoft were able to prove that Linux uses their intellectual property, do you really think that people would stop using it? Linux will always be around b/c open source will always be around. This is a point that M$ does not seem to understand - why pester Novell with this lawsuit crap if, should Novell go out of business completely, another distro will immediately step up to the competition? Open source is here to stay, whether MS likes it or not.