In defense of the new Thinkpads...

" I've seen an overwhelming animosity towards Lenovo's broadening of the Thinkpad line, but fortunately or unfortunately, that's business."

MidnightSun,

It's thinking like this that that makes capitalism, such a sucessful venture. I urge you to think about altenatives.
Renee

 

Lets not forget about the worse thing than capitalism, globalism which is getting worse. I agree we the people if we don't want this then we have the right to go up to the doorsteps of these corporations and change what we want!

 

Thinkpad IS one of the supreme symbol of corporatism and capitalism.

I "accept" the choice of making cheaper thinkpads, at least for the moment: in the current economical situation, enterprises don't want to spend a lot of money on IT upgrade. X100e and SL-series are cheap, but at least they look like thinkpad

But the Edge...

 

Or you can not purchase it, and find an alternative laptop that meets your need, Lenovo is not the only company that makes laptop. Globalization is not to blame for the New Thinkpads, but rather that not enough people wants to fork out 5000 USD for a customised laptop, more people wants business laptop at 600 to 1000 USD price range.

 

The purpose of this post is to "jar some bones". You three are guilty of thinking exactly the way capitalists want you to think.

"Lets not forget about the worse thing than capitalism, globalism which is getting worse. I agree we the people if we don't want this then we have the right to go up to the doorsteps of these corporations and change what we want.
freedom16"

But freedom beneath the globalism is the desire to make a profit - globally.

"Thinkpad IS one of the supreme symbol of corporatism and capitalism.
sefk"

It may surprise you but I have a thinkpad t61p not because it is at all a business machine but because it's a performer. I've had a top of the line, fully packed t61 and it's quite the performer and I don't give a r*ts *ss about business. I do care about good machines which is why I have a thinkpad. I used to be a professional engineer for a major computer vendor previously the largest proportion of the population to IBM were business people, so WHY NOT market it as a business machine?

"Or you can not purchase it, and find an alternative laptop that meets your need, Lenovo is not the only company that makes laptop. Globalization is not to blame for the New Thinkpads, but rather that not enough people wants to fork out 5000 USD for a customised laptop, more people wants business laptop at 600 to 1000 USD price range.

Lead_Org"

I admire you and like the huskie picture because my sister has a couple of huskies. But...you are a perfect capitalist and make capitalistically based arguments. Capitalism is self limiting because it has to expand or its dead. We're are just about at that limit now.
Renee

 

Pffft, capitalism pretty much has no end... the whole idea of capitalism is basically "if i can proffit from it, i'll do it", i also bought a T61p for performance on the go.

 

As you long as you think capitalism has no end - it doesn't.

Renee

 

What do you suggest in place of the current system that has enabled IBM to create the Thinkpad line and has enabled Lenovo to sell Thinkpads at cheaper prices?

 

First of all, I write two posts in one. I need to apologize to lead_org. I passed posts written by him alot tonight and I didn't see a one the had a capitalistic theme. Yet, if you read what I said earlier, I left the impression that all he wrote about was capitalistism. I recognize that isn't true, although I implied it and my implication was wrong.

Now zhaos, I'm glad you asked. I haven't thought about it recently, but I had thought about it. The best answer that I am prepared to give is - "giving". We are always looking at "what's in for me", in capitalism. I suggest turning it aroung and giving - til "it feels good". After a while I think it will feel good but we'll have a transistional period where we have to learn a different psychology because capitalism has deep tenacles in every one of us.

This has to happen. It's beginning to occur on a world wide basis because capitalism, like all profit-based systems has real limits. We've just about reached them. Let me say this, they are selling cheaper systems, cheaper. That all and you see it all through this thread and all over this board.

Renee

 

As long as Lenovo brings out the Thinkpad Classic and keeps the price at a reasonable level with improving features, then this is a good thing. What they use the Thinkpad name for is their business ( although it is preferable that they don't dilute the Think brand too much for their own sake, the last thing we want is a Thinkpad name that is synonymous with JUST laptops and not laptops of distinguished quality of certain design cue, after all it is them not us that paid IBM billions of dollars for the privilege of owning the brand (although one could argue that the brand is useless without the customers buying their products, but that is an argument all to itself).

 

"the last thing we want is a Thinkpad name that is synonymous with JUST laptops and not laptops of distinguished quality of certain design cue"

Guess what? A lot of computer-sophisticated people would argue that Lenovo is doing just that. They are making cheaper Thinkpads. The 15:9 screen and the loss of a roll cage are two examples. No telling what examples a person who knows the new machines would find. How about the new, more flexible keypad?

The price on thinkpads is dropping as they are becoming comoditized.

Renee

 

The rollcage is okay if they are going to use GFRP (although it would need some closer scrutiny as to how strong it really it is, as compared to mg rollcage or CFRP, it would be good that Lenovo do a test on these and post the result on their official blog), the LCD moving to 16:9 is not something Lenovo can help, since they don't manufacture LCD. Lenovo is not the only one moving to 16:9 LCD.

 

And the alternative is that Lenovo doesn't make any of these cost reductions and goes out of business because their main income stream (bulk corporate customers)will not buy a Lenovo laptop that has a $500 price premium over a Dell/HP, even though the Lenovo has all those great (but expensive) features.

I think Lenovo has done a great job keeping as much "Thinkpad Quality" as they can, considering the price reductions that their customers are demanding. We, here at NBR, that would gladly pay much much more for all the classic Thinkpad features, are such an insignificantly small fraction of Lenovo's customer-base that it would be suicide for Lenovo to cater to our needs. Still, I look at the T410S and think that Lenovo is still, as much as they can, making a machine for us, and I thank them for it.

 

I'll be happy when Lenovo puts the NavDial back on the Tablets!

 

"And the alternative is that Lenovo doesn't make any of these cost reductions and goes out of business because their main income stream (bulk corporate customers)will not buy a Lenovo laptop that has a $500 price premium over a Dell/HP, even though the Lenovo has all those great (but expensive) features."

That's who IBM has sold to. But if they are that dependent on business users it seems they have some decisions to make. Alternately, they may have made them long ago and we're seeing them now. To me personally, I could care less about business users.
Renee

 

There wouldn't be enough buyers for thinkpad if it remains the at the price point as it were 10 years ago, while the competitors sells similar equipped machines for half the price.

 

But Lenovo doesn't care about you, since you are only a minority of their revenue. IBM would have said the same.

Businesses want cheap enough laptops so that they can upgrade their systems even in a bad moment of economy. What lenovo does? Build not too expensive laptops.

Edit: okay this is a oversimplification of reality, but I just want to point out that people at Lenovo are not dumb. They might make mistakes, but their decisions are certainly not unreasonable.

 

Interestingly, the HP Elitebooks are slowly gaining the reputation as heavy duty built laptops while the Thinkpads are slowly losing that reputation.

 

Yeah, that is interesting SurfasB.

"There wouldn't be enough buyers for thinkpad if it remains the at the price point as it were 10 years ago, while the competitors sells similar equipped machines for half the price."

I'm interested in the price point and cost of three years ago, not ten. Again I don't care what others think. YOU constantly make references to a capitalistic system. Don't you understand that I am not going to allow capitalism to influence the decisions I make?
Renee

 

Sure, but then what are we discussing now? I just don't follow for what are you arguing for. We are talking about pros and cons of the new thinkpad. Then somebody brings the idea that Lenovo is kinda economically forced to make their decision, to the expanse of enthusiasts. Now what you say is: "well I don't care". Sure, but how is it linked to the fact that Lenovo is a corporation and has to make decision based on money?

Indeed.

 

It is obvious that they wouldn't post results if they are in favor of the customary Mg roll cage.

 

I wouldn't say they are losing the reputation, since for how much ThinkPads cost nowadays, the durability is still quite good relative to how much they have to work with materials and cost wise.

 

HP got a reputation alright.... for making cheap laptops, which is what most people encounters in the various discount stores, and then it fails on them after 1 year when the standard warranty expires. Personally i would never buy a HP laptop, because i have had so many of them failing on me, and most of their consumer laptops are just junks. Overheating is the main problem one has to deal with HP laptops when the hinges are not cracking on you in their consumer laptops. Their elitebook fan noise is also louder than a comparable Thinkpad's.

 

Sefk,

I've almost always bought my own ASUS boards and built my own systems at least since pc's have been around. If Thinkpad want's to be "just another computer among many" then be my guest. So many times in my life time, I've seen high technology taken over by the masses. When that happens there is a characteristic trajectory. This is just the only the latest and the reason is that someone figures out how to make a dolllar bill off it.

Someone asked what I thought it was all about and I told them.

Renee

 

I guess for you, high technology should reserve a special place for "the elite", as opposite to the masses.

Or you want to say something different, then I invite you to reformulate this statement properly.

 

"I guess for you, high technology should reserve a special place for "the elite", as opposite to the masses."

I think of it as 'they make the choice not to learn the technology" I think it should be for those who chose to learn it, not for those who are too lazy to learn it.

Renee

 

Somebody close this thread, please.

 

Why?
Don't you understand that I am a pioneer and I have an opinion and it counts also?
Renee

 

Guess Lenovo should release something new now, otherwise, everybody is gonna be bored to death.

 

Or someone may have a feeling (and matching herstory) that may be contrary to popular opinion.

Renee

 

We get it. You don't like capitalism and that's so very original and unique. Can we get back to talking about Thinkpads now?

 

Not everyone in this forum knows this, i don't even know what the hell you do, i only have a rough image that you are a programmer for somebody, could you share that?

 

If anything, by making laptop cheaper and more accessible to the masses, is considered a socialist ideal. You don't find many true socialist countries promoting elitism, which is where a product is so expensive that only a few and privileged individual can afford it.

 

No but that happens in a socialist state undoubtly. More a communist idea since communism's sole purpose was for everybody to function as one communion, community without classes.

edit:and to work together for the common good of the people

 

y series is an ideapad....

 

Thread has deteriorated into bickering and is now closed.

Make a new thread to discuss what changes were made to the new Thinkpads but keep it on track and civilized.