IBM Thinkpad T60 - T60p with 4GB RAM Issue... ?Answered?

Hello,

This is my first post and I have been reading about a few of you who have recently purchased a T60 or T60p Series IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad and questioning the 4GB of RAM only registering as 3GB or 3070MB in VISTA Control Panel. There have been some answers here and there and all seem to be good and right to an extent however I received a bit of a different answer when I asked the rep that sold me my IBM Thinkpad T60p. Here is what I was told (word for word):

"The T7600 CPU can support 64-bit OS. The main reason we are selling 32-bit OS is due to the limited driver support of 64-bit OS version. It is true that a 32-bit OS cannot fully utilize 4GB memory. Most likely, it can utilize 3GB of the RAM. The advantage of having 4GB RAM is it allows dual channel mode operation, which will increase the speed of the RAM accessing speed. There is one thing that I am not 100% sure is whether T60p (hardware) supports 4GB ram or not (even if you have a 64-bit OS)"

My actual experience to this point is that I received the IBM T60p a few days ago and installed the 4GB of RAM... I have Windows Vista Business 32-bit installed and sure enough, through Control Panel, mine reads 3070MB or 3GB RAM as well. Same as others of you have noticed.

However, let's keep in mind that IBM does indeed sell this same exact Model (8743CTO) IBM Thinkpad T60p Workstation configured with 4GB of RAM so IBM/Lenovo themselves have some reason in this offering. This leads me to believe that there is a reason for the 4GB whether now or soon in the future.

I am interested in further discussion on this topic as I was somewhat frustrated at first as well. I received my T60p (as configurations show below) with 2GB of Installed RAM which I then replaced with two 2GB sticks for a total of 4GB installed RAM.

Thank you

=========================================================
My Systems:

- IBM Thinkpad T60p - (Core 2 Duo T7600 2.33GHz, 4GB, 100GB - 7200RPM, 802.11N, DL-DVD Multi-Recorder, 15.4" Display)

- IBM Thinkpad X31 - (Pentium Mobile LV 1.4GHz, 2GB, 120GB - 5400RPM, Cisco 802.11a/b/g, Dock with DL-DVD Multi-Recorder, 12" Display)

 

You cant have 4gb or readable ram on a 32bit OS, end of story no ends ifs or butts. 32 bit OS's can only recognize 3gb and this will NEVER change.

 

Very good, Thank you for your input.

 

Totally wrong.

Dell sells XPS M1710/2010 with Vista 32-bit, and they can access 4GB RAM with PAE. But, since a lot of devices in the computer steal memory, you do not have 4GB RAM free.

If you install 32-bit Linux on the Dell series, you will also be able to see 4GB RAM. And as the Vista 32-bit, you will not have all the RAM free, since the hardware steals RAM.

On the IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad series, you will NOT be able to see more than 3GB RAM. Even if you install 64-bit OS, you will still see only 3GB RAM. That is because of a limitation in the BIOS or the embedded controller on the ThinkPad series.

Both IBM/Dell/HP use the same chipset, and the chipset itself (945PM) has a limitation of 4GB.

HP seems to have solved this matter in another way. In a 64-bit OS, you will only be able to see all of the RAM available, and not all the RAM accesssible by the hardware. HP reports around 3.3 - 3-5 GB RAM.

Search my previous posts if you are interested in more details.

 

And I almost forgot this link, which shows that 32-bit version of Win Srv 2003 Ent can access 64GB RAM (with PAE, of course):

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/wi...features/compare.mspx#Hardware Specifications

 

Thinkpads are certified to run linux...don't forget that linux could use 4 gigs.

 

How is he wrong?
With 32-bit Windows, installing 4GB of memory is a complete waste.
End of story.
Doesn't matter how you slice and dice it.

Win Srv 2003, Linux...
Why do you bother bringing those up???

 

Just buy 3Gigs of memory (2GB + 1GB) and be done with it.
In regards of dual channel. It's a common myth that it provides any significant or noticable advantages.
BTW, with 3GB installed, your sticks will be running in asynchronous dual-channel.

 

Dude, read what he wrote AND what I quoted. Return later.

Your asynchronous dual-channel is = single channel performance. Read my previous post and you will find out how much it differs in performance.

... AND there are people using other operating systems than only your 32-bit XP.

People actually read the posts here to learn things, not to listen to assumptions.

 

Dude, people are asking a pretty simple question.
Yet you're trying to complicate things, totally unnecessarily.

Dual channel advantages are so slim, they're only detectable in benchmarks.

Besides, what performance are you talking about?

 

The OP is talking about the T60 which has a totally different "issue" besides 32-bit vs 64-bit. The T60 is only capable of 3GB of memory regardless of 32-bit or 64-bit. The T60 will only recognize ~3GB even with 64-bit. This is not the case with the T61. The T61 will recognize 4GB with 64-bit and ~3GB with 32-bit.

 

To be more specific to what stallen said - the Intel 945 Chipset that is in the T60s is not capable of addressing more than 3GB. However, the new P/G 965 chipsets that are in the T61 and other santa rosa powered laptops are capable of utilizing the full 4GB.

 

Yes, capable of utilizing the full 4GB with 64-bit OS.

 

OMG.. I really hate to repeat myself, but ok, don´t bother to read my previous posts and here it goes again.

It is only IBM/Lenovos machines which have this problem showing exactly 3GB RAM when 4GB installed.

Dell and HP (we have tested these brands also) use EXACTLY the same chipset (945PM), but they can access more than 3GB. We have even opened the computers and compared the chipsets. Here comes the photo of the chipset.

3GB RAM limitation is because of BIOS and/or embedded controller in IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad series.

It is not possible to access all the 4GB RAM with the 945PM chipset, but it is SURE that you can access much more than 3GB.

Unhooked, if you think that 8-10% performance gain in dual channel is "nothing", then it is your opinion.

End of discussion.

 

OMG... I did not mention the chipset. I specifically said T60. And I said the T60 was capable of ~3GB with 64-bit OS. This "~" means "about" or "around". Which can mean more than 3GB. Everything in my post is correct.

 

My opinion is that dual channel shows 8-10% performance gain in benchmarks, if that.
But only 0-2% improvement in real world applications .

 

You mentioned benchmarking, and you got my answer.

And what you mean by "But only 0-2% improvement in real world applications"? Have you actually TRIED that? I do not think so.

Our developers actually feel the difference when they compile code. Our guys who have only 2+1GB can see/feel the difference between their computer vs their jobmates who have 2+2GB RAM.

So, MR unhooked, what reference can I give you besides benchmarking, which you do not seem to accept?

Well then, I think that we can trash the whole concept of benchamrking! So easy! Too pity that all the world talk about it, and refer to benchmarkings!

 

That's the theory, reality is that PAE often conflicts with drivers and will cause BSODs if you can even get it to boot.

 

Your guys are on crack!
I can feel my car go faster after an oil change. :laugh:

 

:twitcy: hee hee

 

Oh, really?

Well, we have clustered 1 eServer IBM System x3500 (x236) with 48GB RAM (this is the maximum RAM supported on this server) and 1 Dell PowerEdge 2900 also with 48GB RAM (max supported RAM on this server also). We run Windows Server 2003 x86 (yes, that is 32-bit) Enterprise, and we use this cluster for Enterprise Portal and Application Object Server (and FS) for Axapta 4 (SP1). We have NEVER EVER seen any bluescreens on these computers.

We even run an "old" PowerEdge 1850 with 22GB RAM. This server blue screened once, and that was because we installed an old GPIB-card that was apparently not so compatible with the rest of the machinery, and that blue screen was not because of Windows.

We have unfortunately not so much experience with Linux systems with more than 8GB memory (running ESX 2.5.x and 3.0.x) so I can not compare them. But this is totally another story anyway.

 

I have three SuperMicro X5 server boards both with more than 4GB and none will boot. All BSOD on boot when I try PAE switch. '03 Server Enterprise on two of them and XP on another.

They are all dual xeons, but two different boards/chipsets. I'd love to get it working, but no dice.

Two have 3ware raid cards and one has a Adaptec

If you can offer any advise to get this working...

 

Ok, sure. Compress your bluescreen dump and put it here.

I will take a look at it. Maybe I will be able see something that you missed.

BTW, did you try any Linux dists?