IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad R51/R52

Hello!

I bought an old, used R52 from someone and installed Windows XP on it along with my favourite apps but it gave me a BSOD and then wouldn't boot into Windows anymore. I used the MHDD and scanned the HDD which seems flawless, then low-formatted it, installed Windows XP again and it gave me a BSOD (something about the KERNEL, don't know what cause it faded off too fast). I suspected HDD, RAM, graphics card, but all seems to work fine. I formatted again as it, again, was not able too boot into Windows (just black screen) and am now returning it to the guy and he'll give me a R51 that he has instead.

I'm wondering if is the laptop really faulty or did I install too much newer apps on it (latest Avast antivirus, latest Firefox etc.). Any help would be really appreciated!

 

Could be a bad RAM module. (Try to test from the ground up without any applications.)

 

Agreed with Kaso on the RAM being the likely culprit for BSOD.

That said, these machines *are* old and you'd be much better off with a R52 than R51 if you must really have one of them...they won't go into BSOD due to "too many newer apps"...they'll just get sloooooooooooooow...

Hope that the asking price for each was no more than $50...

Good luck.

 

The asking price was 100 €, but the guy gave a one month guaranty. He will now take the R52 and give me the R51 which has identical specifications but more RAM. And at the moment I'm testing RAM with the MemTest86+ on the R52, I'll do 7 passes and see it there's any errors. Thank you both for help!

 

The laptop has 512 MB RAM and 4 passes are over, still no errors, hm...

 

That amount of RAM is insufficient for XP nowadays, it was OK a decade ago...you'll definitely have issues running *anything* smoothly with the current RAM...

 

Well, the laptop was running just fine until the BSOD. But insufficent RAM can't cause a BSOD, right? It's 5 passes over in the MemTest and still no errors found...

 

What's the 7-character model number of that R52, located on the same sticker that holds the serial number and the production date, bottom of the laptop? Should be something like 18??-???

 

It's 1846-B5G. And now it's past 7 passes in the MemTest, still no errors.

 

According to Lenovo, this is what you should be looking at:

ThinkPad R52 (1846-B5G)
P M 740(1.73GHz), 512MB RAM, 60GB 5400rpm HD, 15in 1024x768 LCD, 64MB ATI Radeon X300, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11abg wireless, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, IEEE 1394, Fingerprint reader, 6c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Which is a very nice configuration for a ThinkPad of that vintage.

That being said, without knowing the actual BSOD code, the other likely suspects for causing it would be:

a) Graphics card. Make sure you have the correct driver installed, these are available on Lenovo's website

b) Wireless card. As above.

Before you load any drivers/utilities (presuming you're doing a vanilla XP install), there are two things which are a must on these machines:

1) Chipset driver

2) SATA driver for the SATA-to-PATA converter chip which is present on these machines.

What BIOS/EC versions is the machine currently running?

 

I think the specs you got are right, except I have the 14-inch monitor version. That also reminds me that occasionally there were little straight lines accrostt the monitor, but I doubt that means a broken graphics card (I've seen the stuff a broken graphics card displays and it was WAY worse than a few lines - also those thin lines only appear at the startup I think, not when in Windows).

Anyway:

BIOS version: 1.29 (I don't know what EC is, sorry)

a) This is the driver I installed for the Graphics Card:
Video driver (ATI Radeon 200M, X300, X600, FireGL V3200) for Windows 2000/XP - ThinkPad R51e, R52 (1846, 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, 1870), T43/p (26xx), Z60m

b) There are three drivers for XP, I installed one (don't remember which one) but Wireless internet worked so I guess that's OK?

1) I installed the chipsed driver:
Intel Chipset Support for Windows 2000/XP - ThinkPad R52, T43/p, X41, X41 Tablet, Z60m, Z60t

2) I DID NOT install the SATA driver - the only thing about SATA on the Lenovo drives page for R52 would be that (Power Management driver):
SATA Power management driver for Windows 2000/XP - ThinkPad R52, T43, T43p, X41, X41 Tablet, X60s (Machine Type 2533, 2534)

Do you think it's possible that the laptop BSOD-ed because I didn't install that? And why wasn't it able to boot up into Windows after the BSOD? After the IBM screen just a blank black screen (LCD light was on tho) - that was the first time. And after the second formatting and installing of OS, drivers, software etc. the same but on the black screen there was a cursor too. But nothing else and it wouldn't go anywhere, I reseted the BIOS but to no avail.

Should I go and install all the drivers, including the SATA Power Management driver, is it really worth it? Or should I just give the laptop back for the R51?

Another note: the BSOD followed the freeze-up when I was surfing web and downloading somethign in Firefox browser (if that helps you any).

Thank you for your help so far!

 

OK, let's start here:

a) R51 is an older and generally weaker platform when compared with R52, for a slew of reasons, unless you're getting an exceptionally well-kept one with a 15" SXGA+ FlexView screen, it's not worth it.

b) You should install the SATA power management driver. I'm not saying that the lack of it was the cause of your BSOD, but would prefer to get that possibility out of the way.

You do have the latest BIOS. EC = Embedded Controller, visible on the same BIOS page that you get when you hit F1 on the initial boot.

My hunch is that your problem is software and not hardware, but I've been wrong before.

Good luck.

 

Software? Do you mean that I maybe installed some wrong driver or should I use the older versions of apps (Firefox etc.)?

 

Well, there's something that doesn't play nice with the rest of the OS, and corrupts the MBR to the point of you getting a blinking cursor instead of booting into XP.

Personally, I'd try a repair with the Windows disk if it happens again.

Newer browsers will not run smoothly on 512MB RAM in my experience, but I'm not necessarily certain that this is what brought the machine down altogether.

 

You made me remember another thing: the first time the BSOD and unability to boot into Windows happened I tried the repair with the XP CD but the setup was unable to find a Windows installation! That's why I suspected the HDD and scanned it with MHDD but it found no errors.

 

PS: What do you suggest (I see that you have experience with old laptops), should I install the newest versions of antivirus, browser etc. or find old versions?

 

Well, the first thing I'd suggest would honestly be to stick a 1GB stick of RAM along with the original 512MB, so that poor machine can catch a breath. DDR2 is really not that expensive nowadays, especially not for a single 1GB DIMM.

I have a maxed-out custom T43p which is somewhat similar to your unit, and am running W7 32 Pro on it without a hitch. When I was running still running XP - which was quite some time ago - I was able to utilize all the latest applications.

AV software such as Avast or Malwarebytes is not a problem, and runs smoothly presuming a sufficient amount of RAM. Personally, I prefer lighter browsers such as Sea Monkey or even Kmeleon on older machines. YMMV.

 

OK, I just installed all the drivers (probably even some unnecessary ones since I didn't know which ones were the right ones) but I still have one "Unknown device" under Other devices in the Device Manager. What could it be? I went through all the drivers...

 

I'm going to venture a guess that it's either the Infrared port or the TM chip.

Pull the device ID from the Device Manager, and Google it. You should have the answer within minutes at the most.

 

Device ID is:
acpi\nsc1100\4&3863886D&0

I can't find the drivers for either here:
Drivers and software - ThinkPad R52 (types 1846, 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, 1870)

I googled it and on some other forum someone said that this is needed (I think that's weird):
Winbond (National Semiconductor) TPM (Trusted Platform Module) Device for Windows 2000, XP, Vista (32bit) - ThinkPad R52, T43/p

 

Yes, that sounds about right.

Try updating your "unknown device" with that driver.

 

I did it and it was it. Thank you so much for your help. I will continue with installing the apps I need. The laptop got slower but that's expected. I just hope it won't break down in a BSOD again. And if it did, is there a way to fix just the MBR or whatever is needed, instead of formatting it again and doing all over again? I'm thinking about keeping it since it really seems that it's a software error in question here. Again, mega thanx!

 

I have this laptop with 2GB ram, 160 GB hdd, and Windows 7 ultimate. You can try Windows 7, I got no problems with it.

 

Mine has 512 MB of RAM so no thanx.

 

You really *should* add more RAM...these machines are actually pretty well-built and can still be useful with rather minor upgrades...

My $0.02 only...

 

This laptop's not for me but for a total beginner (an older lady), she said get me a computer for 100 € and that's it.

Now it seems that all is working well, I installed everything she needs. I just hope I don't see that BSOD again.

Is there a way to recover the system somehow, if that BSOD happens? I REALLY don't want to do it all over again. If the laptop will behave I'll keep it (for her that is).

Thank you all, especially you ajkula66. Thank you very much for helping me!

 

PS: OK, I started thinking about upgrading RAM... Found info on the web that my R52 has 512 MB of "PC2-4200 533Mhz DDR2 SDRAM SO DIMM 200-pin" RAM. I prefer stability over speed so - does it have to be the exactly same type to work properly? I looked for used RAM and it's quite cheap but no one stated all the specifications... Help please - what do I have to look for and what I can forget about?

 

You can use PC2-5300 (DDR2-667) laptop RAM as well. There should be an abundance of 1GB DIMMs for around $10, and I'm talking name-brand such as Hynix, Samsung or Elpida.

Theoretically, PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) should work but I've never tried it on a ThinkPad of this vintage so I can't offer any wisdom there.

Everything and anything else will not work.

 

You mean I can use PC2-5300 667 in addition with the existing PC2-4200 533?

 

Yes. The newer RAM will simply downclock to DDR2 533 speeds.

 

OK, if they will work stable, then that's great news cause PC2-4200 is a bit hard to find here.

Another thing that I noticed today but I doubt that it could be related to the BSOD/no boot problem (or could it)?


(not the actual photo of my laptop)

The screw that holds in the HDD is missing! But I think the drive is firmly seated in. Could that be the cause of that BSOD? Anyway, is there a screw which I could unscrew from the back and fit there? I tried with 2 but both were too long. Or should I just leave it as it is?

Again, thank you.

 

That screw is like $1-2 on eBay...and that's the only one of its kind on the whole laptop...the HD cover screw is shared across entire A3x/R5x/T4x range...not a big investment, really...

 

I'll ask the guy who sold it to me to give me on. Do you think this could be the cause of that BSOD? Highly unlikely, right? I doubt that the HDD could have moved and caused that reaction.

The only 1GB RAM I found in my country is this (all other is 512 MB), do you think it's the right one for R52 (it looks visually different, because of the "double-squares"):
Samsung 1 GB DDR2 5300 za prenosnik :: bolha.com

Seller is asking 10 €.

 

Yes, that's a correct DIMM. The "squares" are doubled because it's double the size - 1GB vs. 512MB

I'm not familiar with Slovenian market when it comes to used laptop memory, so I can't advise you whether the asking price is a good deal or not. It doesn't seem that bad, but what do I know from a 6,000 mile distance...

As for the HDD cover screw, I always advise people to have it in place...

 

OK, and I suppose that adding a GB of RAM doesn't mean that I have to format/reinstall anything? Just add it in and that's it, right?

 

Yes. Plug & play.

 

Thank you. Unfortunatelly, I just got a BSOD again. Luckily, I was able to quickly take a photo of it and luckily it was able to come back into Windows later. Prior to BSOD I uninstalled the Power Management cause it only eats RAM and I don't need it, then I rebooted twice in the meantime. Then I run Avast antivirus just for the sake of it and that's when the BSOD happened.





It said that it's saving a memory dump, but the dump's not saved - nowhere to be found.

And I just ran an Avast AV boot scan, of course it didn't find anything.

What could it be?

 

PS: I forgot to mention: the second screen shot was when it tried to boot back into Windows but stuck there. I then turned the laptop off manually. When I booted it up again it came back into Windows. I was so happy.

 

ATA Packet Interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That sound like hdd problem, maybe it's the screw maybe it's the hdd itself. You should try a low level format and look for bad sectors.

Also there can be a problem with the CD-ROM, try remove it and see if that helps.

 

I really doubt that it's the screw as the HDD is firmly held in the laptop even without it.

I did a low level format with MHDD before installing Windows and I just finished scanning the HDD with CHKDSK - it seems to be flawless. You think I should try removing the CD-ROM? I'd rather not screw around, I'm not so good at the hardware stuff...

 

Have you thought of running a LiveCD of a linux OS? The LiveCD loads the OS into the PC systems RAM which creates a temporary operating system. Trying this out might help you rule out the hard drive.

The more recent variety of mainstream Linux OS might not work with your R52 system architecture (processor and chipset). For this factor you might try downloading the 32-bit (non-PAE) version of the Crunchbang ISO image, burn it to a CD using a program (e.g. ImgBurn or CDBurnerXP- just be sure to burn the ISO image at a slow speed to reduce the likelihood of errors. I usually do a x2 or x4 burn if I am creating a bootable disc), and take the OS for a test drive. Using the LiveCD (you can even create a bootable USB as well) will bypass the hard drive (which the STOP code your R52 seems to point to). If you encounter a sort of BSOD equivalent in linux called a ‘kernel panic’ then we know it involves other hardware system components excluding the hard drive for this testing instance. Here are the links for Crunchbang, ImgBurn, CDBurnerXP, and a short wiki article on the kernel panic.

Cruncbang- Linux operating system

ImgBurn- no-cost optical disc burning program

CDBurnerXP- no-cost optical disc burning program

Short Wiki article on what a Kernel Panic is

When you get the Live session going try to stay in it for an extended period of time. If no kernel panic develops then your problem could be hard drive related. You should be able to connect to your router wirelessly while using the LiveCD as well.

PS. One other obvious thing you might check is if the hard drive is in a caddy or not. I am thinking that there might not be one and the connection is held loosely because of this. The caddy should look like this:

 

I have Mini Windows XP in which I can boot to test and see if it's the HDD that's failing. I'll take out the HDD and see if it's in a caddy or not, good idea. Thank you.

 

Yes, this is it. There is no caddy and everything seems loose, also the metal cover of the HDD itself is very roughed, I wonder what this guy did to it... Sad, really. I will tell him to get me a caddy and a screw. I guess that must be it, thank you all for your help!

 

:thumbsup:

There was no caddy? Sheesh. Glad to hear it was a simple problem! Happy ThinkPadding

 

It seems that this story never ends. Now the guy who sold it to me said that there is no caddy on any of the HDDs in R52, that there are only 2 screws tie it to the outer plastic. He said he'll give me the missing screw to lock the plastic HDD door to the laptop... Oh well. Soon I'm getting a GB of RAM too, I persuaded that lady who will use the ThinkPad that she needs it.

 

Watch this video and tell me there is no caddy.

Hard drive removal movie - ThinkPad R50, R50e, R50p, R51, R52

Here are some more visual resources for you just in case

Hardware removal and installation - ThinkPad R50, R50e, R50p, R51, R51e, R52

 

I know, I saw that video too:
Removing and Replacing Hard Drive in IBM Thinkpad R51 - YouTube

The guy claims there's no caddy... Liar. Could I solve this by puting something around the HDD, hm, maybe a layer of thin carton?

 

You can get the whole set of HD cover + caddy + screws for something like $3 on feebay...I'd never run a ThinkPad without a caddy in place unless I'm using one of the few SSDs that don't fit in TP caddies, but that's a non-issue here.

 

Too bad it's not an R51p. To this day, it has one of the best screens out there..2048x1536 IPS!

 

There never was a R51p.

The ThinkPad that you're referring to is R50p.