I've got an aluminium heatsink/grill on T61 :]

From all the review images i have seen, and from the older thinkpads i have used, i know that usually the grill that is seen from the farther left corner of a T61 is copper.

I, on the other hand, clearly have an aluminium part.

Personally I think such quality downgrade without warning is alarming.

Is this even normal?

 

My older thinkpad is a copper.

Copper does conduct heat much more than aluminium so will heat up much faster. So therefore, I am logically assuming without having done much reading on the topic, if you want to use the T61 for long periods of time: aluminium would be better as it would not heat up as fast but would still conduct the heat away over longer periods of time.

Am I correct or can anybody correct me?

 

I think not. The better the material conducts heat, the faster it can carry heat away from the needed cooling area, and the faster it can dissipate heat into the air.
@AMN:Can you post a picture of the grill?

 

Gotta be the worst image i have ever taken. Well, thats as good as it gets. You can see the silvery material anyways...

I am not sure what to make of it all. I am not picky, as long as things work, but i have bought a Thinkpad T because it is well, a Thinkpad T, and is supposed to use T quality materials, which means it will last longer on copper. No matter how powerful the CPU is, or what is my graphics solution... Give me the best parts, that's it. Otherwise i d buy an iPlastic

(T7300, X3100, 14.1" WXGA+ w/camera, 4965agn Wifi, 100Gb 7200rpm Seagate hard drive, bluetooth, 2x1Gb RAM)

P.S. Is it an option to buy and replace the grill, if i sense the machine gets too hot for my tastes ?

 

I don't think Lenovo would put a cheapo aluminum grill on their top of the line machine just to save money over the much better performing copper one.

I'm sure they tested it and came to the conclusion that the aluminum is just as good at cooling stuff down. Remember, the cpus nowadays run much cooler than the older ones, so thus allowing manufacturers to use a lighter weight material (aluminum) and still achieve the same desired level of cooling.

Oh and btw, where did you get that 14.1" WSXGA+ screen from? I've never seen that offered ever.

 

This is a well known "issue". Some people with the integrated graphics card, get the aluminum grill as Lenovo considers it acceptable for such a machine. All machines that come with a dedicated graphics card, will have a copper grill.

 

Anyone care to post temperature results if you have an aluminum heatsink? If the heat demands are not as high, aluminum WILL shed heat faster, and have lower temps.

 

No biggie on integrated graphics, I imagine. If I'm allowed to dumb this down then a CPU consumes 20W and so does a GPU. Copper conducts 401 W/mk, alu about 237. So noo problems there. The overall thermal system performance won't even degrade by 401/237 because other interfaces (thermal grease, copper baseplate on top of the CPU and heatpipes will probably not change.

Understandeable move with copper prices being so high.

 

Have you even measured your CPU and laptop surface temperatures before having a panic attack about your aluminium heat sink?

 

The faster something heats up, the faster it can lose the heat too. It's the ability to tranfer heat. Water doesn't transfer heat well at all. So it takes longer to heat up and longer to cool down. Metal is great, heats up quick and cools down quick too. Cooling down meaning it is given off the heat to the cooler enviornment. Copper is better than aluminum in thermal conductivity.

So perhaps laptops with integrated graphic and Al heatsink would be at about the same temperature as latops with dedicated graphic and CU heatsink.

 

My X61, which obviously has integrated graphics, came with the copper grill. But that would make sense since it, regardless of the GMA X3100, is a lot of power/heat for such a small footprint.

 

Here's another thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=150627&highlight=heatsink

 

Has anyone taken apart a T61 to see fi there is a copper plate embedded in the aluminium heatsink?

 

Copper is supposed to be able to absorb more heat than aluminum. But aluminum is supposed to dissipate heat to the air faster than copper.

On my desktop, the aftermarket copper heatsink for my quad core intel processor is about the size of small soccer ball. It is humongous.

 

Um one thing I must ask is if your positive that its aluminum as apposed to some other metal or an alloy. You see shiny and silver and jump to Pepsi can? I am not saying that it couldn't be aluminum but there is a chance that its not, or has someone confirmed with lenovo on this?

 

What else can it be other than aluminum?

 

I will be taking the machine apart soon (when i download the proper instructions).

I am not having a panic attack. I am concerned that the warmer integrals get, the shorter their lifespan, and I did not buy a topnotch thinkpad (ok, i dont have a dedicated GPU, but I dont care for one either) to throw it away after a couple of years because of thermal failure after Lenovo's cost-savings or supply shortages. If theyd told me "we are waiting for copper", i d say "wait. ship it when you have some."

Like I said, if i wanted a toy, id buy a mac or a dell. I bought this machine to last...

But, i ll keep you updated when i take the machine apart..

 

NO, NO. Its all a myth that aluminum "radiates" heat better than copper. Copper is a better heatsink material than aluninum in everyway.

 

Yippee: the admin agrees with me!

Yeh that 14.1" WSXGA+ screen looks a bit wierd for the T61. Are you sure it's a Thinkpad? LOL.

Oh and agree about the Dells been rubbish because plainly they are; but they are cheap rubbish so if you want something just to take apart and have a look at inside and then not use it again, go ahead and get a Dell. However, I strongly resent the comment about macs. I used to think that only when I strolled into the shop and was totally converted, I think that my MBP was the best buy of my life (after my SA80 airsoft rifle which the ****ing handle actually works on and I've had sooo much fun with today and why the heck is c*cking handle starred out???).

 

What if the heatsink is copper but the surface is anodized with a silver colored metal material?

Something like this:

 

IIRC, alloys are not as good as a single metal as a heatsink.

That's why I said supposedly. Doesn't it have to do with the surface area of the heatsink? The more surface area, the better the heatsink radiates heat, with everything else equal.

 

Corrected in OP. The screen is of course WXGA+ )

 

WoW, I have never heard of an aluminum block that is porous ! Seriously though, only way I could think of your reason that aluminum "gives off" heat better than copper is in its density, and aluminum is significantly lighter than copper. But then again, the spec heat capacity of copper is, i think about 1.5 times better than aluminum. But I digress, im no physics major (atleast not yet). Everything ive read around using google says that copper is better than aluminum in every case.

 

Thermal Conductivity - ability to conduct heat.

Copper - 401
Alumin - 237

So, Copper is almost 2x better at that.

 

Mine is aluminum. At lowest speed the CPU idles 41-42C most of the time. At highest speed it idles around 50C.

 

I'm using an ACER for the meanwhile and the i have the following temps:
CPU:28C
Core1: 39C
Core2: 40C

It has a x2 64 1.7GHZ CPU.

Does these figures make sense?
P.s i'm using pc wizard - awesome tool.



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The temps will be exactly the same with either heatsink, even if the aluminium heatsink is much worse at cooling.
The system will compensate by running the fan at higher rpms and for longer periods of time = more noise, less battery life.

 

Yes, exactly. This is the only number that matters when comparing just the materials. Except to be 100% technically correct, you need to include the units too (W/m-k)

Copper cannot be anodized. That heat sink has been electroplated, probably with nickel. Plating will lower the initial conductivity, but it also prevents corrosion and oxidation which will decrease conductivity over time. It was probably done more for cosmetic reasons than anything, though.

Just about every metal used in commercial manufacture is an alloy of some kind, aluminum and copper included. Pure metals aren't easy to work with, nor are they in abundant supply. This is not a bad thing, though, because the thermal properties change very little in relation to how much other properties (such as corrosion resistance and toughness) are improved by alloying. True, some alloys are closer to "pure" than others, and pure copper would conduct more heat than alloyed copper, but it's so soft your finned heat sink would look like a wad of origami by the time it was shipped to you

I wouldn't get too hung up on the materials if the performance numbers are within acceptable limits for the given application. Other factors, like good surface contact with the chip and proper application of good thermal compound make a greater difference than material in many cases.

 

Dude. are you british? Only the brits say ALOO MINI YUM

It's spelled Aluminum! ALOO MIN NUM! =)

Mine's copper, but it came a lil bent, I bent it back out with a flathead mini snapon screwdriver. Btw those were the best 60.00 i ever spent on four infinite warranty mini screw drivers.

 

Only the Brits?
How about the whole world, with some minor exception of North Americans.

 

whoa! you mean America isn't the whole world?!

 

I was talking about how heatsinks have fins. The more fins there are, the greater the surface area. The greater the surface area, the more cool air that can be blown around the fins by a fan.

For the record, I agree that copper is a better material for a heatsink than aluminum. However, copper costs about 3 times as much as aluminum to buy and produce into a product. But the benefits of copper is really realized only if you have enough airflow. Else, it is a waste. Other design considerations may affect the actual efficiency of a copper heatsink. Depending on the design of the heatsink and the cooling conditions (i.e. airflow), copper may be no better than aluminum.

I think aluminum can be anodized but the copper is electroplated. I have jumbled those things in my mind.

Slicknick, you are being more specific about things; I was just trying to say things in more layman's terms. Ugh...I have not taken inorganic chemistry.

 

That reminds of Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear. He says ALOO MINI YUM at times, but he also says ALOO MIN NUM too.

 

Well thanks for the interesting discussion, guys

Now, can i order a copper heatsink from Lenovo? Is this kind of practice possible? Because if I can, i will. I dont need no shorter battery life, or louder fan, and the machine DOES get warm, so i doubt the aluminium, like someone here mentioned, is able to cool just as well as copper.

Cmon, its a flagship Thinkpad, i am doing this

P.S. I am SO NOT British I am Armenian.

 

What's the difference?

 

Only the NAs say ALUMINUM. The rest of the world is following the original spelling of the word. How about that?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Excuse me sir but I do suggest you read the following:

"The earliest citation given in the Oxford English Dictionary for any word used as a name for this element is alumium, which Humphry Davy employed in 1808 for the metal he was trying to isolate electrolytically from the mineral alumina. The citation is from his journal Philosophical Transactions: "Had I been so fortunate as..to have procured the metallic substances I was in search of, I should have proposed for them the names of silicium, alumium, zirconium, and glucium."[17]

By 1812, Davy had settled on aluminum, which, as other sources note,[citation needed] matches its Latin root. He wrote in the journal Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state."[18] But the same year, an anonymous contributor to the Quarterly Review, a British political-literary journal, objected to aluminum and proposed the name aluminium, "for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound."[19]

Reading the passage above you will see: the first recorded spelling for the word aluminum was actually a-l-u-m-i-u-m. Not only that, but the guy who first figured that out went on to change the spelling to aluminum, not aluminium. Pretty crazy, eh? Furthermore, this was a Brit who discovered Aluminum and a Brit who gave it the spelling! It wasn't until a some crazy political guy (why does he get to make judgment calls on chemicals?) came around and suggested to change it to alminium. I guess you are either for the scientists or against them...

We can now conclude that any Brit using the spelling of aluminium is actually a traitor of science and an enemy of his nations scientists.


The more you know...

 

Can we drop the spelling thingy ? does it really matter !?



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Meh. I haven't taken orgo, or inorganic. But engineers deal with material properties all the time, and those of us of a mechanical bent deal with the thermal properties of materials (thermal conductivity, heat capacity, and so on). If it's your job, you know your materials. =)

 

braddd, if your statement above is true, I stand corrected.

As for the heatsink I really wouldn't bother unless the temperatures get too high. It is like with cars. You could have 2 identical models, but with some components made by different manufacturers or of slightly different materials. However, both are up to specifications and requirements. The durability gain that you get with the "better" component will most likely not be noticed for the majority of users.

 

Yeah but we invented the periodic table!^^

 

PWNT! ONE-UP FOR THE AMERICANS. And yes, what other parts of the world?

 

Yeh but John Dalton was the father of it all and he was Brittish don't forget!!!

 

I wish i never wrote the word that means.... that material

 

Rofl. You did not expect to open Pandora's box, did you? :laugh:

 

The arrangement of chemical elements started with Dmitri Mendeleev, a Russian chemist.

 

Are there different FRU's for copper and ALUMI-NI-UM heat sinks ?


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The system doesn't aim for a specific temp while running, but tries to get it below a certain level. If one machine for example has a much lower idle temp (with same processor, or faster processor in the machine that is cooler) then that cooling system is better. At the other extreme with both machines at peak load, you should also be able to tell a difference, since each fan should be spinning at 100% with the temps in the upper ranges. Another test would be using tpfancontrol, and forcing a lineup of laptops in similar room temps to a certain fan speed at a certain CPU load, seeing how temps compare across the bunch.

This argument will go on and on though, just like people complaining they got S rated tires on their budget car compared to H rated tires on the level up. If the laptop (or car) cant perform up to the level of the upgraded model, chances are the user wont even notice a difference.

 

I see only one FRU listed: item 21, "Thermal device and fan", FRU - 42W2820

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-68208#rohs

 

I was looking at the Parts Lookup And they don't list it. I guess i'll look at it when i get it. So far i'm 2 of 3




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