I'm tired of waiting for the T61P and thinking about buying this instead...

- 15.4" WSXGA+ Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Intel® Core™2 Duo T7500 2.2GHz w/4MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 8600GT DX10
- Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- 4,096MB DDR2 667 PC2 5300 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (w/Vista 64-Bit Only)
- 160GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA 150)
- Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software
- 1GB Intel® Robson Turbo Memory (Vista Only)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- 110/220V 120W Auto Switching AC Adapter - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11 a/g/n
- Integrated System Speakers - Included
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Internal 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO)

- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime Toll Free Tech Support

$1930 (including shipping/no sales tax)

That might sound pricey but look at the spec... Ultimate, 4GB RAM, 512MB nVidia, 160GB 7200RPM HDD comes with a clean install out of the box

This can be as low as about $1200 for the same model/same nVidia graphics.

Any guess as to the make and model?

 

compal ifl90.....

 

Sager NP2090.... the warranty is 3 years but 1 year on parts which suggest Sager since that how Sager does their warranty. But since Sager rebrands the Compal IFL90 is basically the Compal IFL90

3 years with 3 year(parts) is the Compal IFL90(Force 3297/Powerpro J 10:15)

And i assume your buying from XoticPC.com

 

Damn... you guys are good! It's the SagerNP2090 (same thing as the Compal ifl90)

What do you think. All the BSOD stories are spooking me. The wait for a T61 15.4" screen with an nVidia card is killing me. Do you have any experience with these. I just happened to "stroll" over to the Compal and Sager threads. They seem just as fired up about their laptops as Thinkpad owners.

One big concern I had was about the quality of the keyboard, but I'm starting to neg. information about the T61 keyboard as well. Seems Lenovo might be starting to take a dive???

 

I had a T61 ordered, canceled it and switched placed my order for a Sager NP2090 today. I decided to call it quits on my T61p dreams after all the problems with the T61.

 

Where did you order yours? Specs/Price?

 

The Thinkpad keyboard will probably be better then Compal IFL90 and in general the T61(p) should have a better build quality then the IFL90 duo the Thinkpad T61 being a business class laptop while the IFL90 isnt but Compal make quality laptop(look at the HEl80/HGL30) but IMO Compals have more bang for the buck.

 

Any thoughts about the screen. Obviously it's glossy so way different than the Thinkpad, but what about quality compared to a Sony or Asus glossy screen?

 

I was checking out glossy vs. matte at my local big box shop a few weeks ago to see which one I wanted. Some glossy screens are better than other at reducing reflections but there was always some light reflecting off of the screen. Noticeably good at preventing reflections was the Sony FZ140. Even as I was using it, though, there were very visible and distracting reflections from things around me. I even checked out a glossy screen in a darker setting without all of the annoying big box shop lights and there was always still SOMETHING reflecting off of the screen. If I were going to use my laptop in pitch blackness all the time I'd definitely go for a glossy screen. However, from my experience I decided I definitely DON'T want a glossy screen.

Oh and by the way the glossy screens are magnificent. The color and contrast is just miles ahead of the matte screens. But for me the distraction of the reflections heavily outweighs the improved picture. This was especially true for the Sony FZ140 I checked out.

You should definitely head to a big box shop where they have a bunch of laptops sitting out and see if you can live with a glossy screen.

 

Though instead of the IFL90, if you were seriously considering a business type notebook you know without DVI and stuff then I would check out the Dell Latitude D830. They have NVS140M option now. Otherwise you know you can always wait until July 10th or so like you were talking about. I know... I really wish Lenovo would release a 15.4" with better graphics too.

 

Try a glossy one still indoors but with a window just behind you.
It's like looking in a mirror.
Nice for those who run a risk of being ambushed though.

 

By the way if you really do want to get the IFL90, save yourself about 400 dollars are put in your own RAM and HDD and drop Vista Ultimate and Robson since those don't matter much anyway. Also ask yourself if you really want to run 64-bit Vista with that 4GB of RAM. The system I built was 1300 and it's 200 more for that HDD and 2GB of RAM making it 1500, or about 400 less than you have. Also if you go to a university they usually have cheap versions of windows. I know at mine I can pick it up for $10 or so.

 

Is everyone waiting for the T61p to play games on the quadro card? I wouldn't think everyone is that eager to use it for CAD. I'm sure it'll run a game or two fine but I'm not sure how eager Nvidia is to optimize a business card's driver for games.

 

Kind of off topic, but it's my understanding that the graphics/"business" nVidia cards that are coming with T61s will probably be able to use the gaming drivers since it is basically the drivers that differentiate the two. Could be wrong, but that is what I've been hearing. If that is the case, one could try both types of drivers and pick the one that works best for them.

Anyway, my point is this. Long wait for the T61P, lots of BSODs on the T61, keyboard quality is coming into question, and maybe overall quality is coming into question. I think that I (and probably others) are really stuck on getting a Thinkpad but maybe we should be looking around while we are waiting for the T61P. I'm thinking this Sager NP2090 is probably just as capable of a buisiness laptop as a Thinkpad maybe more. If you are one to be really ruff on your laptop sure the Thinkpad is probably a little more tuff, but not as powerful as the Sager.

 

I have looked at many other notebooks. I think the most formidable contender is the dell 830/630. I was also seriously considering a sony for a while but it was overpriced, had a glossy screen, and was low resolution. Not a good combination. The HP business notebooks look promising. They even have HDMI out. The only problem is they are much more expensive than the current Thinkpads with the 25% discount. The 15" HPs with core 2 haven't been released yet anyway. Compal is ok... I guess... They look cheap and their design looks ugly. As someone who one day wants to resell my laptop, the prospects don't look good on that one.

Heck if value/wait were your main concern why not grab an ASUS C90S? I can personally vouch for the quality of the ASUS keyboards (I'm currently typing on one). Mine has absolutely no flex. ASUS also keeps the exact same keyboard it seems for all of their laptops and many people seem to think ASUS is quality. Also the C90S is pretty cheap compared to other notebooks and much faster. You just lose form factor. But if you're like me your laptop don't leave your desk most of the year so you don't care. I'm not getting a C90s though because of fan noise, resale value, and ugly, design. I'm not positive about the fan noise, but if you look at the get engine fans they put on the back, it's a reasonable guess haha.

Who else is there? Hmm.. HP's consumer line sucks ass. Dell's consumer line isn't santa rosa yet. There's apple... but you pay a premium price and someone mentioned that the bios wont let Vista throttle the processor causing consistent fan noise. There's gateway but they only offer low end options for mass consumers. And so I really can't think of any other serious contenders.

By the way, who knows what's causing the bluescreen issues? I suspect that if you don't have turbo memory and do a clean install by yourself you'll never have the problems that most people complaining about BSODs do. Most of them seem to be docking/undocking issues but you don't seem to need a dock.

And at the end of the day with the 25% discount, SPP, fatwallet etc, the T61 comes out the cheapest of any of them.

 

I seem to have a penchant for long posts lol.

 

I am however worried that when the T61 15" with better graphics comes out July 10/11 that it wont arrive in time for mid august when I have to return to school. If that were the case though, I would probably go with the dell.

 

I'm in the same boat. Although I started grad school this summer. My laptop died of old age. I've been making due with a thumb drive, computer lab, and my desktop at home. There have been many times when I really could have used a laptop. I am really hoping to start the next semester with a laptop.

 

Why don't you guys order a T60p right now. Don't believe the estimated shipping date Lenovo's order system gives you. I ordered mine in early June. Got an estimated shipping date of 8/13. The computer actually shipped less than 2 weeks after I submitted my order. I have been more than satisfied with the T60p.

 

In early May, I've seriously considered a T61 but now the Compal IFL90 (in whatever incarnation: Sager, PowerPro, ...) is at the top of my list.

I'm in a similar situation to xnviews and stallen, in that I also want to get my computer before the fall semester begins. For me, an additional advantage the Compals have in general is that they don't force you into buying a (possibly crippled) Vista license. And if you do buy Vista, you are sure to get the real deal and not a crippled version. I already have an XP license I can transfer (for gaming) and Ubuntu is my primary OS so I don't need to buy Vista.

 

Can you elaborate on that. I am planning to run vista. I don't think that Compal notebooks come with bloatware, but I'm not totally sure. Is that what you are talking about?

 

What I'm saying is that if you buy an IFL90 (made by Compal but sold under the brands Sager, PowerPro, Force, etc...) you have these options:

1. You can buy it without Vista (that's what I want).

or:

2. You can buy it with a retail version of Vista. (That's what you want... I think.) With this option, you get a license that you can move from computer to computer.

Some manufacturers do not offer any of the two options above. They will sell you a laptop with Vista preinstalled. You won't get any installation disks but only a restore partition from which you can create restore DVDs. Basically, this kind of license *very strongly* ties your license to a specific laptop model (maybe even to a specific unit). Whatever legal (or illegal) workarounds (perhaps) exist to move that license around, I don't know and I don't want to deal with. What I want when I buy a license is to be able to move that license from laptop to laptop as I need. Right now I don't need Vista. When I'll need it, I'll buy a retail license.

Edit: this is implied by what I wrote above... but to be explicit: yes, a retail version of Vista means no bloatware. You will get a CD with the drivers with the computer. You are free to install or not install anything you want.

 

Almost all computer manufacturers purchase OEM licenses from Microsoft. The OEM Windows OS licenses are tied to the specific computer you purchase.

I don't know how Compal can manage to purchase retail Windows OS licenses from Microsoft, unless Microsoft somehow barred Compal from acquiring OEM licenses.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, Compal does not bundle any OS with their computers. What the resellers get from Compal is a computer without any OS. Then a reseller can sell the computer to a customer *and* sell them a retail version of Vista.

So I think Compal itself is completely out of the business of selling OSes.

 

So you basically just purchased a retail copy of Windows OS from a vendor that also happens to sell Compal barebones laptops.

I don't see how this is different from purchasing a retail copy of Windows OS from any other vendor, such as Bestbuy, Circuit City, etc.

Plus, an OEM licensed Windows Vista will probably cost you only $50. Whereas a retail licensed Windows Vista will cost you an arm and a leg, and your first born.

 

If I go to Lenovo's web site and buy a ThinkPad there, at a minimum it will come with an OEM (crippled) license for Vista.

If I buy an off-the-self ThinkPad at BestBuy without anything else, does it come with Vista? If yes, what is the license?

I would expect BestBuy to sell the computer with an OEM (crippled) license, just like Lenovo does. (Looking at the BestBuy web site, I see the computer comes with Vista preinstalled... that smells like OEM to me.)

So if I buy a retail version of Vista at BestBuy with a ThinkPad, I'm buying two licenses for Vista: the OEM that came with the computer and the retail that I buy separately.

If you go with Compal, you buy just one license.

 

Don't forget, if you purchase a barebones laptop, legally you cannot install the upgrade version of Windows Vista. So you have to purchase a FULL retail copy of Windows Vista. The FULL version will probably cost you ~$300. Whereas an OEM licensed Windows Vista that comes bundled with your computer would only cost you ~$50.

So you end up paying $250 extra. Worth it? Apparently it is to you.

 

Ok, so you've switched scenarios. Instead of buying a laptop at BestBuy (which almost certainly comes with an OEM license already) + a retail license of Vista, now you're considering the difference between buying a laptop with an OEM license vs buying a laptop without a license but for which you have to buy a retail license *separately*.

Let's see. First of all, Joe User can buy an OEM version of Vista legally. The only thing is that just like buying it from Lenovo, that OEM version cannot legally be moved from computer to computer. See this article about the caveat of buying an OEM version of Vista from Newegg for instance:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2087792,00.asp

Ok, so going to nextag, I see the Vista Ultimate OEM at a minimum of $150 whereas the retail version is $282. That's a $132 difference. You may argue that with volume discounts the OEM version that comes with a ThinkPad would be around $50 but I'd like to see figures backed up by some sort of reliable source. (Urgh! Perhaps nextag is not reliable after all...)

Edit: the price for the retail version was off. Nextag *does* list it for $183 but that's bull****.

 

If you look at Xoticpc ( http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php/cPath/95_51_169/products_id/2031?wconfigure=yes ) the prices for full retail Vista Home Premium, Vista Business, and Vista Ultimate are $97, $127, and $177 respectively with the purchase of the Sager NP2090. That's not too bad (it's not $300+ anyway)

 

Thanks for pointing that out, stallen.

 

Sorry to get back to you so late.

I ordered from xoticpc.com with these specs

1680x1050 screen - 512 MB 8600GT
T7500
2 Gig 2 SODIMMS memory - non corsair
100 gig 7200 rpm HDD
8x DVDRW drive
A/G/N intel wireless
Bluetooth
Vista Ultimate

For a final price of 1,700 USD.

All of the options I got are better than or equal to what I would have received with the T61, and it came out to around 300 bucks cheaper. Of course no magnesium roll cage and all that jazz (meaning I won't be running my laptop over with my car to impress my friends) but I figure I'll just try my best not to drop it.

 

I'm a little surprised to hear you say that. That are certainly not flashy like a consumer level HP, but I think if you stuck the usual Windows and Intel stickers and the Thinkpad stickers on it, it wouldn't look much different than a Thinkpad. (not that I would do that ) but I think they look very similar.

 

The only thing I don't like about the Dell D830 and D630 besides that it's a dell is the fact that the Fn key is to the right of the ctrl key. It makes it impossible to use ctrl+t to open new tabs in firefox without moving my hand off of the home row an uncomfortable distance to stretch my fingers. The HP business notebooks also have the same thing. So does the Sony FZ series. The ones I have seen that don't are the Thinkpads, ASUS, and the Compal IFL90 as I see from pictures.

Stallen, I was doing the same thing as you my freshman year. Ordered my current ASUS notebook and I had never seen screen sparkle before and thought it was a defect. I told them that my screen was defective and I sent it back to them only for them to tell me that my screen looked beautiful. I was like wtf. But for that time I was out of a computer at all for 3 weeks. I didn't even have a desktop in my dorm >.< I had to use the dorm computer lab. Ugh.

 

I also like to avid midrange video cards now. I have a GO6600 and the fan for it runs non-stop at full speed 24/7. I even have the powermizer settings on low performance and it doesn't make a difference. However my CPU fan barely runs at all. I think there was someone with an HP that had an X1600 with the same complaint. It's just the midrange video cards pump heat like no other. That's why I'm personally avoiding the 8600 GS/GT. I'd far rather go with a low end discreet card. I'm even debating settling on integrated graphics but I don't know what the X3100 can and can't handle. The integrated graphics are $100 cheaper and meant to save power/heat so it'd be something of a trade-off. What are your needs graphics wise?

 

I probably play games about two to four weeks out of a year. So I don't consider myself a "gamer" by any means. But, I would like to know that I can if some awesome game comes up. That's why I would be happy with even an nVidia 140m.

Applications that I do use on a regular basis would be Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Premier Pro, EncoreDVD, and After Effects. And I want to do this on a laptop with pretty Vista Aero

Video Editing applications can definitely benefit from discrete graphics. Can the integrated Intel graphics do the job? Probably so but not as efficient. And, like you said... for about $100 more. I want it! I'm not overly concerned with heat or battery life!

 

I just built these systems:


Remove 6465CTO ThinkPad T61 15 Widescreen - 1 Yr Depot Warranty
Edit
7/18/2007** $1,078.49 $1,078.49

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)[1]
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic[12]
15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965 w/ WWAN
512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM DDR2 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)[8]
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
60GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm[4]
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim[5]
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ[10]
6 cell Li-Ion Battery[60]
6465: Express - 1 Yr Depot Warranty[7]
System Processor[1] Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)
Operating System[12] Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
Operating System Language Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic - US English
Display Panel 15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
System graphics Intel GMA X3100 GM965 w/ WWAN
Total memory[8] 512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM DDR2 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboards Keyboard US English
Pointing Device UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
Hard Drive[4] 60GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
Optical device[5] DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim
System expansion slots PC Card Slot & Express Card Slot
Wireless cards[10] ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ
Power cord Country Pack North America
Language Pack Language Pack US English

Remove 7662CTO ThinkPad T61 with nVIDIA Graphics - 1 Year Depot Warranty
Edit
7/18/2007** $1,133.54 $1,133.54

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)[1]
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic[12]
14.1 WXGA+ TFT, w/o Camera
nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M
512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM DDR2 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
60GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm[4]
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim[5]
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ[10]
4 cell Li-Ion Battery[60]
7662: 1 Year Depot Warranty - Express[7]
Processor[1] Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)
Operating System[12] Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
Operating System Language Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic - US English
Display type 14.1 WXGA+ TFT, w/o Camera
System graphics nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M
Total memory 512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM DDR2 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboard Keyboard US English
Pointing device UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
Hard drive[4] 60GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
Optical device[5] DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim
System expansion slots PC Card Slot & Express Card Slot
Wireless card[10] ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ
Battery[60] 4 cell Li-Ion Battery
Power cord Country Pack North America
Modem cable (RJ-11) PSTN cable
Language Pack Language Pack US English

Remove 8743CTO ThinkPad T60 Series - 1 Year Carry-in Warranty
Edit
8/22/2007** $1,438.58 $1,438.58

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T7400 (2.16GHz, 4MB L2, 667MHz FSB)[1]
Genuine Windows XP Home Edition[12]
15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
ATI Mobility Fire GL V5250 256MB
512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM DDR2 667MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)[8]
No integrated fingerprint reader
60GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm[4]
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim[5]
ThinkPad 11a/b/g/n Wireless LAN Mini-PCI Express Adapter[10]
6 cell Li-Ion Battery[60]
1 Year Limited Warranty[7]

They're all basically the same assuming you put in your own RAM and HDD. Notice though that the T60p is nearly $400!!! more than the T61 14" with NVS 140M. I recently built a gaming desktop machine for a friend and his 8800 GTS OC 640MB was $400. Also notice the fun 8/22 ship date on it lol. That's more than 2 months away! Geez. I don't really have a point, other than that the current situation with lenovo is ridiculous. Getting a 15" as nice as the one I configured for under 1100 is a steal. And it's only 1300 once you're done putting in your own RAM and HDD. But once you hit the T60p which I assume is around the same price the T61p it gets steep.

 

And you're comparing those ThinkPads with what precisely?

 

Each other really. Price wise I'm comparing them with every other santa rosa on the market. I just built an equivalent 14" Dell Latitude D630 with NVS 140M for 1350.