I do believe that Lenovo just lost a future customer

Well I got a letter back from American Express today saying that they had ruled in Lenovo's favor and couldn't grant me the 15% restocking fee for returning the unopened 14.1" T61 I shipped back. I had purchased it here back like 2 months ago and what happened was this. Lenovo was having a sale online with a pretty decent discount coupon and I decided to place an order for a 14.1" T61. Well after placing the order I got to thinking about it and decided not to go ahead and go through with it so I called Lenovo and asked them to cancel the order I just placed online. The guy tried to talk me out of canceling it and offered another 5% discount off that already discounted price to keep it. I thought about it a second but then said no. Later the next day I started to wish that I had just kept the order because with the extra 5% and Lenovo FatCash and the sale discount it was a pretty good deal, at least the best that had been offered for a while.

So what I did was place another order online and called right after placing it to see if they could still offer me that extra 5% off. The guy I talked to said yes and I confirmed with him twice that an additional 5% would be taken off my already discounted web price. So then the laptop gets delivered like a week and a half later or something and I see the charge on there and it's the full price without the additional 5% and Lenovo also didn't report my 10% FatCash even though they reported the order I had just placed the day before and canceled an hour later. So by that time I had found me a better deal already on a different brand laptop and decided just to send that T61 back since it was unopened and it was just delivered and from what I knew Lenovo had a 21 day return policy with no restocking fee if the order is unopened.

Well come to find out Lenovo decided to change that policy here not long ago so that you can't return like anything without a restocking fee unless it's their error. Well I was like this is crap. Lenovo didn't give me the extra 15% off the price I was planning to get and I decided I didn't even want it now because of realizing how much I would dislike the dim CCFL screens used in them so I got an RMA# and sent it back. I also spoke with Lenovo before sending it back to tell them about not getting my extra amount off and the guy made the point that he couldn't do anything for me. Then I asked him if he could at least waive the restocking fee since it's well within 21 days and it's unopened. He said he couldn't after I asked him twice. So I just shipped it back and then disputed the charge with AMEX and told them what happened.

Today I get the letter back stating that Lenovo faxed them the invoice showing that they had refunded me the money minus the 15% restocking fee and that I had agreed to the restocking fee when placing the order. AMEX also said they couldn't do anything about the extra discounts I should of received because those were by word of mouth with no record. So in the end I had to cough up $187 just cause I decided to send back an unopened product that I never got for the price I was expecting. Dell, HP, Sony, and others all offer a 21 to 30 day return period where you can even return an opened product for a full refund if not satisfied. Even with Apple who charges a 15% restocking fee on customized orders you can a lot of the time talk them out of charging it, especially if it's unopened. I have a new MacBook Pro now and so after tasting the quality of Apple I doubt that I will ever buy another Lenovo product and have to possibly deal with their extremely poor customer service.

BTW, this wasn't the first time that I've had an issue with Lenovo and needed to return something. I lucked out that time though after several phone calls and speaking with like three different departments at Lenovo because my new x61s was getting too hot to comfortably use even on a desk for any long period of time.

 

Next time dont order and pay for things that you dont want. Once you send your credit card or whatever payment away, you are in the twilight zone. They build a machine to your exacting specifications and you decide that you dont want it..and you expect them to take it back no questions asked? Thats a pretty wild request.

Sorry that you ended up with a fee. Good luck with your apple..they make some nice machines unless you want to swap the battery, or right click.

 

I would have to agree with Lenovo. Sounds like you jumped on the offer quick because it was a good deal and maybe shouldn't have.

Have you had any experience with Lenovo's products before? Just wondering.

If nothing else, you probably could have stuck it on ebay and made a lil money on it.

But this alone doesn't seem like enough to make one switch manufacturers ... or switch to Apple.

 

It's a wild request to desire service that most every other major laptop manufacturer such as Dell, HP, Sony, ect offer and that even Lenovo themselves offered until they decided to change it like here the first of the year or something? I didn't even know that they had changed and if you will do a search here in this forum for restocking fee you'll find out there's others that didn't know about it until more recently either. You have to read the fine print on Lenovo's page. In one place it says they take back unopened orders for 21 days and that's what I was expecting. In another place it says no returns without restocking fee for customized laptops. I also don't think it's a wild request that I get charged the price I was told I could have or that they should at least report the purchase to Fatwallet considering they reported the order I canceled an hour later but not the one they actually charged me for.

Why would you want to swap the battery? I get better battery life now than I did with an upgraded 9 cell battery on a PC laptop. That's because Apple use a different type of battery as well as OS X is better optimized for battery life on the MBP. And yeah I thought I was going to miss the right click button too but you can just set the trackpad so that when you tap with two fingers it serves as a right click function. To me that's actually better than having the actual button. Several other nice features about the MBP trackpad which like scrolling web pages with two fingers.

 

I previously had a Lenovo Z61m for a while and I still have a T60 widescreen that I bought last year from Buy.com. I also just had an x61s a few months ago that I returned after about two and half weeks because the palm rest was getting too hot for long extended use. Then I bought and sold a couple different ThinkPads last year on eBay when I would snag them for cheap. Lenovo has good products for the price overall but what I'm disputing is not their product but their poor customer service. Until you've had to actually deal with them then you really don't know. I spoke to a couple of different people from Lenovo and they didn't really seem to care at all that I didn't get the price I was quoted over the phone or even would consider budging on the restocking fee on a sealed laptop I had for like 3 days. I had to go through all kinds of hassles as well with the x61s when I was having an issue with it getting too hot for me to even comfortably try and use. They refused to grant a return until I sent it in to the depot for a repair at least once and then when I contacted technical support about sending it in they had to redirect me to another special department because overheating was something that had to be handled differently. I didn't get a call from that department till like a couple days later and then they finally granted the request to return it for a refund.

With Dell or HP all I would of had to do is make a call, tell them what issue I was having, and that I was not satisfied with the product and they would of issued a return for refund no questions asked. And with an unopened laptop I would of definitely had no problem getting a full refund, especially if I told them I didn't get the price I was quoted.

 

Wow, that does suck. Last I knew (back when I bought my T61 a few months back) their return policy was 21 days with an unopened box, and with an open box, you had to bite the 15% restocking fee. That sucks that it's a 15% either way now. Oh well, I guess you live and learn. My HP I had bought before my T61 I had opened, and even downloaded some software, and decided I didn't like it and wanted a T61. So, I called HP, and just like you with Lenovo, the person I spoke with offered my an additional $100 off the price of the laptop for me to keep it, but I just insisted that I wanted the Lenovo instead. They promptly sent me a shipping label via. my E-mail seconds later, no questions asked. Now that's what I call customer service. I definitely give HP a good customer service rating for their products.
I also am VERY happy with my T61, and still am very happy I made the switch.

 

that's what you get for trying to manipulate the system.

also, the 15% restocking fee is your fault, you agreed to the terms at the time of purchase.

 

How was I trying to manipulate the system? Because I expected a certain price that I was told I could have? Way to manipulate the system.

Also, the 15% restocking fee may be my fault because of the fact Lenovo has now added this new clause into their return policy for custom built machines but I wasn't even aware that this change had taken effect. I still believed Lenovo offered the 21 day return policy for an unopened product and that's why I didn't even think about opening it. Like I said, I'm not the only one that found this out the hard way that Lenovo had changed this in their fine print. Do a search here in the Lenovo forum. If I had known ahead of time that I couldn't return it period without a 15% restocking fee I probably would of never ordered because I wasn't 100% about my purchase but I didn't want to miss the good price. Turns out I failed to get that extra 15% off my price and ended up paying another 15% restocking fee to return something I never even touched. Had to pay for insured return shipping to Lenovo too.

But you know it's just a real shame that Lenovo's customer service and return policy is getting this poor compared to what it was with IBM. With IBM you had 30 days to return without restocking fee for opened or unopened.

 

I see that you probably aren't getting the response you expected but fatwallet is also pretty strict with placing orders only through their system for it to work.

The policy probably changed because people were taking heavy advantage of it and ordering multiple systems and returning a bunch of them with no charge. The customer base now is also very different than what it was before. Thinkpads used to be premium machines costing 2-3 thousand each. Now a T61p can be had for less than 1 thousand.

-----------------------------------------
"Can I buy directly from the merchant and still get FatWallet Cash Back? What about price-matches?
No. If you deal with the merchant in-person, on-phone, or without FatWallet Stores link on-line, then you will not receive Cash Back. As a matter of fact, calling the merchant to change an order can cancel your Cash Back. Finally, if you request a price-match, the retailer will essentially cancel your FatWallet order and place a new one. In these cases, you will not earn Cash Back.
We'll help if we can but the bottom line is this:
If we do not get paid by the merchant, we do not pay you.
What if I need to contact the merchant?
Contacting the merchant may void your cash back! When making a change to an order, merchants regularly cancel the online order through FatWallet and enter a new one. Without the FatWallet connection on this new order, no cash back is earned. Even if no actual changes are made (such as calling to check the status), the merchant may still see themselves as the last assistance on the order and FatWallet may no longer be credited.

It is best to cancel your order (which you can do directly) and then re-enter FatWallet Stores, find the merchant you want to order from and click on the merchant's name. Then (re-)order. Remember: If we do not get paid by the merchant, we do not pay you."
http://www.fatwallet.com/support/faqs.php#faq14"

 

I don't think the restocking fee is unfair to charge since even the shipping back and forth is part of it isn't it? As far as what was agreed, you seem like an intelligent consumer why not have them email the offers to you so you have some kind of record. It seems to me that this is simply a case of having second thoughts about which product you actually wanted. My experience with Lenovo customer service has been very positive.
In any case you got yourself a great laptop with the Apple, enjoy it.

 

You have to know how to manipulate customer service. If you are good enough you will get a $2,000 computer for $1,700 like me. They canceled my order, tried to make me buy a brand new more expensive one. I wouldn't have it so I kept complaining and got the brand new computer with better specs at the original price. I've gotten customer service to do lots of stuff. It's all about how you deal with them.

And a restocking fee isn't unfair as you wanted to return it. It was not their error. Makes perfect sense.

 

No matter how you try to justify it you failed to read and understand the contract you agreed to between yourself and Lenovo at the time of purchase.

Take some responsibility for your actions.

I'm unmoved.

 

The fact that I didn't get the discount their sales rep said he would apply to my order makes it their error but because it was a sales rep that told me this over the phone naturally I have no proof of this. I also did the click through on Fatwallet as I always do to get the extra 10% back and Lenovo simply didn't report the purchase even though they reported the previous that was canceled which was exactly the same. My fatwallet click through history even shows it in my account. I understand them instituting a restocking fee on opened products but they're just making it near impossible to ever return anything paying a large restocking fee whether the customer is satisfied with their purchase or not. Lenovo is just trying to cut corners in every possible way in order to lower up front pricing to compete with companies like Dell. The quality and especially their customer service is slipping more and more all the time compared to what they were. To me I just didn't fathom that within the last few months Lenovo would of changed their return policy. I knew it was 21 days with a 15% restocking fee if the laptop was opened but none if it was unopened.

Even at Amazon.com they don't have a restocking fee on an unopened laptop return. Newegg.com has a 15% restocking fee on non defective returns but I can just simply refuse delivery on the order if it turns out I don't need that item and I get a full refund. Could I of refused deliver on the Lenovo laptop? Nope. Even last year when Lenovo allowed full refunds for unopened returns you had to accept the package and ship it back. You couldn't just refuse delivery. I remembered that so I accepted the package, didn't open it, and got screwed for $187 because I didn't take the time to double check to make sure they hadn't changed their return policy AGAIN.

Yeah I should of taken the time to read the terms and conditions page but does everyone really take the time to read something like that every time you order? Most manufactures don't change their return policy on a month to month basis. So now if you place an order and it turns out you no longer need the product you have no choice but to eat possibly a large $200 or more loss just to return something you never laid your hands on. Restocking fees like this make sense when you're enforcing them as a small business or like an eBay seller or something like that that can't really afford to take any losses very regularly. Not when your a large company like Lenovo that ships millions in revenue of laptops alone. Lenovo has every right to do as they please as far as what rules they want to set but I as a consumer have the same right to take my business elsewhere when I'm no longer satisfied with their level of service or the complete lack thereof.

Sorry, just needed to vent a little in this thread to get this off my chest lol.

 

this is one weird story.... nothing personal but when i look to buy stuff usually i double.. TRIPLE.. think about it before ordering.. sometimes i talk myself out of things and later i realize i should have ordered.. sometimes i wait too long and im ass out.. but i never blame any manufacturer if i suddenly decide i dont want something.. not once.. but TWICE??? cmon.. this sounds fishy.. IMO

 

That sucks. You should at least be willing to see that you could have avoided this problem if you would have thought out your purchase a little more.

I have never owned an Apple. Just looked at their notebooks at Best Buy and Fry's. I like ThinkPad's more.

 

I am not going to say what you should or should not have done. But you are right, Lenovo's return policy sucks. Basically you have no return policy at all. If you buy the laptop it is yours and the best you can hope for is to send it to depot repair if there are any defects. I have read many posts where someone wants the laptop, buys it and start to use it and discovers a defect. They have called Lenovo expecting that they could just exchange it for another one(within 2 days of purchase), not a refund, and were refused. They were asked to send it to the depot repair. I guess we are all so used to being able to return items if we don't want them, especially unopened ones, but doesn't seem to be the case with Lenovo. If you buy a laptop from them you better want to keep it, thats something you should be prepared for with them.

I knew this was going to happen with them when I bought mine and was thinking of returning it(I was and am very indecisive). It was also unopened. I didn't even bother with them, I just sold it on ebay and it worked out better.

I am sorry about your poor experience, but at least you now have what you want.

 

In the end I should of just sold mine on eBay as well. I'm sure I probably could of sold it for what I paid for it if not even a little more. Stupid decision on my part for that. I was just ticked off they didn't give me the extra discount off from the CSR over the phone nor did they report the purchase to get my 10% Fatcash. I didn't even know they had changed their return policy till I went to setup the RMA and called and the guy was like you're going to be deducted a 15% restocking fee even though it's unopened. Went and looked up their return policy online and did a little searching here on the forum and looks like they had recently changed it. In one link I found on the Lenovo website it actually still said unopened returns could be returned within 21 days with no mention of a restocking fee. Then I believe on the order page where you can click that little terms page if you want it talked about the restocking fee on all returns of custom built orders. Now it looks like they've changed it just to read that all returns within 21 days that are not a Lenovo error are subject to the restocking fee. Pretty soon it will say that you still have to pay the restocking fee even if they send you a brick instead of a laptop lol.

 

I don't care much for Apples MacBook notebooks. The AIR and the MBP are much nicer though with the brushed aluminum casing. They're thin and light for their sizes and the MBP's keyboard and LCD are the best I've gotten out of a laptop before. OS X is definitely growing on me now as well. I didn't think I would like it at all after preferring Windows but Vista started to annoy me with all of it's freezups and sluggish performance so I was ready to try something else. The thing I like the most about OS X is just that MAC apps just seem more fun to use and even installing them is a quick and painless process. And with MAC hardware being all the same unlike with PC laptops they're able to code MAC apps to run faster and more efficiently on your hardware. I also get pretty great battery life out of my Penryn MBP.

 

Since restocking costs the company in a number of ways, a generous restocking policy in the end results in higher sales prices. In situations where restocking is free or inexpensive, people who buy products and do not return them are subsidizing people who return the products.

 

^^^ well said.

The initial price discrepancy sounds legit but the return fee? Come on now.. imo when you sign on the dotted line with a company, you do so under the terms specified. If you don't like those terms, take your business elsewhere! If you don't know what those terms are and end up getting f*cked, it's your own fault for being unaware of what you are doing. Instead of blaming their customer service, take a hard look in the mirror and blame yourself for your own ignorance.

 

as they said above, when you enter into a contract ( such as buying something ) the seller starts to spend money to fulfill your order in anticipation of you upholding your end of the contract and forking over the agreed upon cash. When you reneg on the agreement, the seller is left holding the bag, having incurred the expenses and not getting any money for it.

In short: Man up Nancy.

 

It sounds like corporate America could talk you into just about anything, eh? Restocking the miniscule number of returns that a company receives should be part of the cost of doing business, just like the light bill and the stationary. I see no proof of your claim that companies with generous return policies have higher prices, that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Lenovo seems to be the least forgiving when it comes to returns, yet their prices are no lower than anyone else.

I'm sure Lenovo would be very proud of you for that post though.

 

You're trying to justify it. Writing costs off as "a cost of doing business," which by definition is at the company's discretion, is in no way related to such a contract. It's more an informal vehicle for a party to release a counterparty from a duty to repay.

If you don't think it's fair you're under no obligation to sign the contract.

 

Damn, if only I had known I wasn't obligated as a human being to purchase a Lenovo branded machine! Where were you a month ago with this info!?

I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not the restocking fee is part of Lenovo's "contract" with the buyer, or even whether they have the right to charge it if they choose to do so.

Rather, it seems to be a question of Lenovo creating negative publicity by requiring that customers pay a restocking fee on an item that is within the return period, and unopened. When these returns go to the outlet, Lenovo is still making a profit with or without the restock fee and the manpower to get the machine to the outlet. The restock fee just allows them to make more profit.

With Lenovo now trying to cover the "mainstream" demographic, and with companies like Dell who often let the restock fee slide (even when the machine is opened!), they're putting themselves at risk of being viewed negatively by the very people who's money they're after. Not a good decision for a company that wants to excel in the marketplace. And Lenovo needs all the help they can get if they want to appeal to the mainstream shopper. Good public image = more business, the simplest marketing principle there is.

 

anyway....

 

I'll absolutely agree to that. Well said.

 

If you think Sony or Dell support is any better, I don't think you've spent much time in their forums. I'd agree Dell's return policy is better and Lenovos is now quite poor. The IBM days are gone.

I can see both sides of it. Lenovo has to protect their own interests. Back when they had a no questions asked policy, people would order multiple machines and keep whichever they liked best, returning all the rest. They'd have to of course sell those at a loss. If you return your machine, they can't sell it as new. Plus they have to warehouse it while they sell it which costs money. It seems an unreasonable proposition to order then cancel/return multiple machines wringing out every last dollar(which I can totally understand), yet somehow expect better service. People rarely consider what they give up when they pay less. It would have been nice if Lenovo had honored their word, but when you play everything to the edge, sometimes you'll get burned. Perhaps consider it a lessoned learned. If they return policy is that important, you should ask.

 

if you purchased your laptop through the EPP site, no returns what so ever, so 15% re-stocking fee, a little steep but better than no returns.

 

And this is why we have the Lenovo outlet....

 

haven't had to meet too many payrolls, have you kid?

 

Well this seems to be beating a dead horse at this point...so what the hell, I'll give it a whack too.

I see both sides of this...of course there is the need to recoup losses due to additional labor required to repackage, warehouse, and resell a product as a refurb, and because the package was delivered under the pretense of your written invoice and policy to which you had full access, that loss should not be on Lenovo's hands, regardless of whether you opened the box. However, there is something to "the customer is always right", within reason of course. I have a feeling that Lenovo's poor bedside manner is likely due to the fact that they aren't really accustomed to dealing with an individual consumer, who buys one unit, and tries to squeeze every last cent out of the deal. They are probably more used to selling dozens or even hundreds of units to one person, and that person isn't spending their own money. Where Lenovo really has an issue is that they treat the individual consumer like they aren't important, which is a big no-no in the market they are trying to enter.

Of course, they should have honored a 5% discount if that was promised. Shame, shame on Lenovo. You were the victim of a salesperson that lies in order to make a sale (wow, what a novel concept). Why in the world would you not get this in writing? Surely you have an invoice that has the amount you were charged on it, right? That is just common sense, and part of being a consumer, particularly in this day of sight-unseen sales.

My purchase was quite frustrating as well, and I had similar issue with customer service. The T61P I ordered was sent with the wrong optical drive. It took (if I remember correctly) 17 separate calls over the course of 7 weeks to Lenovo, bouncing between sales, customer support, and hardware support, each passing responsibility to the other. I was promised attention from managers, replacement parts, return calls, etc., all of which turned out to be total fabrications as I would find out days later to check status. Ultimately the option I was given was to return the unit (they would not just send the correct drive), be charged a 15% restock fee, and reorder the unit online without the benefit of the holiday pricing I originally had. I was furious. Obviously none of this was my fault, yet they had no problem leaving me holding the bag. Finally after two months I was contacted by a very nice and reasonable manager (U.S. English, too) and the problem was resolved. I like my Lenovo, but nothing is worth that kind of disrespect and disservice...so the jury is out on whether or not my next laptop is made by Lenovo. =\

Anyway, sorry you were charged the restock. I don't think it is as uncommon as you suggest, but I'm sure it stings nonetheless.