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    Hows The Build Quality and Screen on the L412?

    Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by gregv03, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. gregv03

    gregv03 Notebook Consultant

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    Hey...anyone know hows the build quality of the L412 Thinkpads? Is there any flex on the palm wrest, or the screen? Also, how are the viewing angles and overall picture quality of the screen?
     
  2. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    similar to the SL410, which country are you in?
     
  3. gregv03

    gregv03 Notebook Consultant

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    Im in the US.
    Well, i have never used the SL410..was the build quality and screen on that any good?
     
  4. MikesDell

    MikesDell Notebook Evangelist

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    Yes, as Lead Org has stated, the new "L series is basically almost identical physically as the older SL series.
    I've used an SL series very briefly, and form my experiences, I've noted

    - The build quality is not as good as a T series, or even the older R series of Thinkpads. Something about the plastics used, and the overall openness of the machine. The way the media buttons are organized, very UN-Thinkpadish.
    - The keyboard was alright. In fact it was ALMOST as good as my T61's keyboard, so no complaints there.
    - MUCH thicker and heavier than my T61.
    - Glossy lid on the rear of screen instead of traditional "thinkpad rubberized". (I much prefer the soft rubber of the T/R/X/W series.

    Hope that little bit helps. All in all, IMO if your getting a Thinkpad, at least get a T410. I think you will be much happier in the long run with a T series machine.
     
  5. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    Get a R400 from the outlet.lenovo.com instead, the quality is on par with the T410.
     
  6. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Strange isn't it, I am now finding the R400 being recommended as a less expensive option (which it certainly is), but before the model was phased out, was it popular? Or, did it always exist in the shadow of the T4xx series?
     
  7. PatchySan

    PatchySan Om Noms Kit Kat

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    Many opt for the T-Series over the R-Series, especially in the US where the purchasing cost of the T-Series is price competitive to begin with so there isn't any need to opt for the R models (unless you're really tight on budget). Usually the T-Series is Lenovo's mainstream moneymaker so I would imagine they spend a lot promoting these models in comparison to the R-series which isn't surprising that many can overlook them. Due to this trend though, finding a second hand R-series models can be a bit of a bargain. I got a 3 month old R400 with 3 yrs warranty for just £200 ($310) which is crazy.

    That doesn't mean they're bad machines though, my first ThinkPad was an R-Series (R50e) and I loved it, affordable yet certainly no slouch in its day. It's sad that Lenovo have killed off the R series and brought out the rather grizzly looking SL/L Series which doesn't appeal to me at all.
     
  8. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    i don't think lot of people knew about the quality of the R400, if Lenovo did promote it, then T400 wouldn't have much of a market within the personal consumer segment outside of USA. Since you would be getting essentially the same computer for much less than the T400.
     
  9. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    @ Hearst555 & lead_org...this T400 and R400 business with Lenovo is quite mystifying. Why would you have two almost identical machines so differently priced? Unless, of course, they were for different geographical markets - though I can't see the point in that either - well, not to a great extent!
     
  10. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    hence why the whole R series was dropped in favour of L series. As the R series cannibalised lot of T series sale for the exact reason that you mentioned. But as a consumer it was great to have the R61 widescreen and the R400 laptop, as they were lot cheaper in Australia than the equivalent specced T61 and T400.
     
  11. PatchySan

    PatchySan Om Noms Kit Kat

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    Well back in the day the differences between the T series and R series was like night and day in terms of the specifications and materials used, so the extra price premium for the T series would probably be justified back then. But by the time they reached the T4xx and R4xx generation, I guess Lenovo ran out of ideas as the R series closed the gap significantly. The only difference was the slightly thickened chassis and different Ultrabay drives. You would be mad to buy a base model T400 as you could probably get a souped up R400 for a whole lot less.

    I assume Lenovo found the R series would be too close for comfort if it was to compete it's own stablemate the T series which is its core money bringer. So they scrapped it and introduced the SL series which they stripped out a lot of the good features to cut costs (roll cages etc.) and made it extremely bulky and thick to distinguish it better from the T series. And in my opinion they made a right monster out of it, honestly if the SL series was introduced in place of when I bought my R50e back then I probably wouldn't even considered buying a ThinkPad. It was the R series that introduced me and made me stick with the ThinkPad brand, otherwise who knows I probably be typing on a Dell or HP by now!
     
  12. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    @ hearst555...I just came off a Sony and Acer zone and got back to ThinkPads and it just so happens to be a R series!

    @ hearst555 & lead_org...

    I would have probably killed off the T4xx series and kept the R4xx. Because in the current timeframe, if SMEs want to use a ThinkPad, they could cut costs and perhaps buy more of the R4xx family than the T4xx. Bigger corporates could probably have T/W and a X series combo marketed towards them.

    Just off the top of my head, given the chance, I would have re-positioned the T series with the 5xx series and had the W series above that price-point. The X series would have continued in the same way as now targeted to the ultra-portable (but not netbook) market.

    But then again, very likely that the Lenovo boyz would have worked out the implications of their product line up to the last detail!
     
  13. PatchySan

    PatchySan Om Noms Kit Kat

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    I think that probably would upset a lot of purists down here! :D I think if Lenovo kept the differences to what they done with the T61/R61 then it's probably OK, but they carried on evolving the R series to a point of no return which (ironically) probably is its biggest downfall.
     
  14. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Well...but then those purists would be stuck within the T/R61 timeframe when the difference between the T and the R series would have been much greater than when the T4xx and the R4xx were in the market together! :p
     
  15. MikesDell

    MikesDell Notebook Evangelist

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    True, but if I remember correctly when I bought my T61 new a little over 2 years ago, I was also seriously considering the R61 as well. I know there was some major differences between the 15.4 inch T61 and R61. However, the smaller 14 inch model was almost identical (roll cages in both the base of the computer, as well as the screen, etc.). Only difference is the R series was a little chubbier. Other than that they were basically the same, whereas the T series being priced higher.

    At the time, I was looking at 15.4inch models only, so the R series was out of the question (the R61 not having the extra protection around the screen, plus the extra weight really made me go to the T series).

    Just my thoughts on the T/R 61 era :)
     
  16. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    R61 14.1 inch widescreen was exactly same as the R400, which make it essentially a T61 with a thickened base, like R400 was.

    R500 was pretty much exactly the same as the R61 15.4 inch widescreen.

    Regarding, which model to discontinue and all that. It was simple from Lenovo point of view.

    R400 costed pretty much the same to produce as the T400, and the profit margin is higher on the T400 and the other T series as compared to the R series. So from profit margin perspective it doesn't take much to guess, which they would kill off to stop the internal sale cannibalisation.

    Regarding, the cost perspective of SME purchasing, i think Lenovo have looked at the various options presented, and decided that L series was to take the market position of both SL and R series. Since these companies wanted a laptop dirt cheap, but yet still maintained the Thinkpad warranty and service. Many SME orientated laptops are generally desk bound, so they probably don't need all the extra magnesium reinforcements. For those whom wanted R400 pricing, could always get a T410i, hence why Lenovo introduced the 'e' and 'i' moniker again.

    Also, Lenovo is not going to kill off the T4xx series, so that they can decrease their profit margin by selling the R400 series (since the R400 costs as much as the T4xx to produce). When they could offer specific model of T4xx series slightly cheaper (or closer to the R400 pricing) for people whom wants a T4xx series. The consumer would feel lot better about purchasing them, since they feel they got a real bargain from the transaction.

    Corporations get different pricing for their thinkpads than the general consumers, especially when they purchase them in bulk. And it is also prudent to remember that the largest Thinkpad market is in the USA, where T400 and R400 pricing are very similar (this is also why you don't see many people in USA using the R400). And lastly, many Thinkpads that corporation use are on lease, T series have better residue value than a R series.
     
  17. JabbaJabba

    JabbaJabba ThinkPad Facilitator

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    The main reasons why I prefer the T-series over the R-series are:

    1) There is no rubberized coating on the lid of the R-series.
    2) The coating on the T-series chassis (not palmrest or kb bezel) is slightly rubberized somewhat like the lid coating. On a R-series it is just bare "cheap" plastic.
    3) T-series is slightly lighter.
    4) T-series is slightly thinner.
    5) R500 does not have roll cage for the screen. T500 does.
    6) T-series has better spec options.
    7) R-series has cheaper looking screws (I know I'm nitpicking here :)).
    8) R400/R500 uses a 12.5mm ultrabay where the T400/T500 uses 9.5mm ultrabay.

    While some of the aforementioned is negligible or not important to some, the R-series lack a few of the classic ThinkPad characteristics.

    Having said that, the R500 I had was a very solid, cool running and stable business laptop. If one does not care too much about top specs (i.e. Radeon HD3470 vs HD3650) or aesthetics, I can definitely recommend the R-series.
     
  18. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    @JabbaJabba..

    The R400 and the R61 with 14.1 inch widescreen uses the exact same top screen casing as the T61 and T400.... so there is the rubberised coating and it has the magnesium roll cage.

    Regarding thinness and that, well the R series do come cheaper than a T series, i am not sure whether you can ask too much in that regard. Beggars can't be choosers. If price wasn't so much of a concern, then no one would get the R series in the first place.

    You can get the Nvidia GPU 9400M on the Thinkpad R500 in some countries...

    But R500 do also run around 2 to 3 Celsius cooler than the T500 when you max out the CPU and GPU.
     
  19. JabbaJabba

    JabbaJabba ThinkPad Facilitator

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    Lead_org:
    No one is trying to ask more of the R-series. I am stating my preferences and why I prefer one over the other. I am not commenting on or bothered about the costs.

    As for the R500 running cooler it would make sense due to the thickness. But keep in mind that even if comparing the same CPU, the R500 with discrete graphics runs with the Radeon HD 3470 Graphics vs HD 3650 on the T500. So it is not an apples to apples comparison heat output wise.
     
  20. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    how about R500 with intel graphics versus T500 with intel graphics?
     
  21. JabbaJabba

    JabbaJabba ThinkPad Facilitator

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    Since I don't have a R500 with Integrated graphics I can't do the comparison. The one I had was with ATI Radeon HD 3470 (non-switchable). Besides it had a much lower clocked CPU than my current T500 with T9600.

    My T500 with T9600 on Intel graphics gets up to max 75 degrees celcius (normal voltage) after 10 minutes of full load at 21-23 degrees room temp. It would be interesting to see how a R500 with the same CPU would do. Undervolted the T9600 in T500 reaches max 64 celcius.