How many of you dual boot/run Linux on your Thinkpad?

Mostly curious since I just began dual booting Ubuntu 11.10 on my T420s.

Never before used Linux and I can say that as of now I'm pretty addicted. Having no limitations in an operating system is truly awesome, and I have so much to learn.

How many of you run a version of Linux on your Thinkpad? I've been pleasantly surprised at how well it's running on mine.

I know we have a Linux on X220 thread, but it'd be nice to hear from those with other Thinkpads as well!

 

Running Debian Linux almost exclusively since i started using my first Thinkpad T23 in mid 2005. Currently running Debian unstable on a T61+ Frankenpad. While i have always had Windows installed, since a valid license came with the machine, i never really bothered using it because Linux is so much more versatile.

 

I wanted to, but the fact that none of the ThinkVantage software is compatible with Linux turned me away.

 

I've been dabbling with Linux for five or six years now. While I know a lot more than I used to, I'm still an amateur. Right now, I've got Ocelot running on my R60e.

 

I've started playing with Linux I don't know how long ago. Using it more or less exclusively for about five years now. I kept Windows on my old laptop though, for university stuff and who knows what, but only booted it about once every six months.

My new X220 came without OS, I installed Debian testing.

As for missing ThinkVantage support. I'm mostly relying on the command line, so I might not be able to give the best advice on it, but when I tried a full-fledged installation with Gnome once, everything worked out of the box and modern window managers come with a full suite of configuration tools of themselves. Why not boot a Linux live version from a USB key (if you haven't already done) and see if you are actually missing something? (I wouldn't know what is included in ThinkVantage. )

 

Just last week I installed Ubuntu 11.10 on my T510. I'm a complete noob to Ubuntu, but it seems to be running very well on the hardware. I thought for sure I would have to work to get some of the drivers installed, but all worked fine (I was really only concerned with networking and graphics). I'm getting my feet wet with the OS, but like someone else said, I've got a lot to learn.

 

I dual boot Ubuntu 11.04 and Windows 7 on my machine. I've almost never used Linux on my ThinkPad, though...

 

I occasionally use Ubuntu Linux 11.04 on my T420, though rather than dual booting I use it as a Virtual Machine inside my Windows OS with VMWare Workstation and it's pretty smooth going.

 

Who here has tried different distros of Linux?

Currently I'm okay with Ubuntu, but would like to hear about some of the other distributors as well.

 

I only run my Knoppix boot disc if I'm trying to diagnose something or for Gparted...

Knoppix is based off Debian/Mint. I like Knoppix as it just boots up, and I have yet to find a WLAN card it does not have a driver for.

 

While i am used to apply Debian/unstable as my daily workhorse since so many years, and have also played around a while in parallel with some Ubuntu variations, I do like to have a look beyond the borders and check out the Redhat based offerings. As the rpm-based package management is also a very common standard, and since anything Redhat is very relevant in professional computing environments, it is a pleasure to learn about this quite different Linux distribution approach.

At work we manage computing clusters of hundreds of machines, but these are using an already very old and ancient, by today's standards, Redhat environment, for which any update to a newer release would be a major disruption in production continuity. Privately, on my Thinkpad, i regularily try out Fedora almost every time a new release becomes available, alas only in disguise as a virtual machine. I have also installed a recent Scientific Linux in a virtual machine, as this is, just like CentOS, based on the same sources as the actual Redhat distribution.

If i wouldn't already be so happy with and accustomed to Debian, something like Fedora or Scientific Linux would be my preferred choice of Linux.

 

If you really want to learn the in and outs of linux and enjoy a steeper (and more pure) learning curve than ubuntu, try out Arch. Check out their forums/wiki page. Very knowledgeable community and very good resources. I had a tough time with it at first and redid about 7 or 8 clean installs to really play with it.. and that was just installing! You build up instead of getting a pre-packaged distro with a DWM already packaged and a GUI installer. I think they have the best package manager in pacman I have ever used in any distro. I strongly suggest learning to use the command line interface. Not the entire time, but at least at the beginning, especially if you want to learn what's going on behind the scenes. I use Arch with OpenBox as I'm all about the minimalism and low resource usage. The opposite would be say, mint/ubuntu with KDE on top instead. Also take a look at distrowatch.com , it has a pretty comprehensive list and brief summary and links to various distro's. A few others I enjoyed were Slackware, and Gentoo was interesting but I'll be damned if I spend more hours compiling than using. If you're real baller look into LFS / Linux from scratch. There is no distro, just rediculous documentation on how to obtain source and build up to a pre-x environment.

I really really like the init.rd boot system of arch and how the major config is in etc/rc.conf - all in one place! which is derived from BSD, and after reading alot about BSD, it seems to be more organized? Logical? rather than the compiled chaos of linux. Chaos isn't the right word, but most non-commercial distro's really have a re-packaged feel to them. It's all just, pieces put together. A kernel from here, a ls from there, a ps from another place, etc etc. And that's linux's strength, it's adaptability and you can literally plug and play any package/binary/source you want on there. The traditional BSD's seem more scaled back, with slower release dates and more centralized development, and more comprehensive base systems that are less "plug and play" ie:

but the downside is their repos aren't as cutting edge, especially compared to Arch. Arch can be bleeding edge. Whereas debian, is more tested and stable. But nearly all distros will have a stable and testing/unstable repo for you to draw from. Debian might be a good intermediate step, as ubuntu is pretty much a super fancy debian. You should take a look at some BSD's, I plan on trying out FreeBSD, but there are also more user friendly versions like PC-BSD and Desktop-BSD. OpenBSD is supposed to be the most secure OS in "the world". (Hearsay, not experience).

Check em all out! Ubuntu is only the beginning. I praise ubuntu for helping masses of people to discover linux, and for providing a fully functioning free operating system to those who can't afford windows volume licensing or individual windows machines. But as far as learning linux via ubuntu, you can, but it doesn't encourage you to IMO.

 

I like the current Linux distros as a novice user. They've come a long way since I first tried Linux 8 years ago. The dealer breaker is that power consumption is terrible compared to Windows.

 

I have Ubuntu 10.10 installed with the beautiful Soothe theme installed. Make sure you have latest Firefox installed or Chrome to get as smooth experience as possible.

However, Linux does not have as good power management as Windows 7, Wine (which ables you to run Windows compatible software) has some problems and the Wacom drivers are terrible! (And you loose all the goodies with the ThinkVantage suit)

 

Great theme!

 

I might have to check out that theme, it looks pretty nice.

And it is a shame about the power management on Linux. While in Windows 7 I'm getting around 7 hours, and on Linux I'm getting about half of that.

Anyone have any good power management tips?

 

While i don't really care about power management issues since my Thinkpad hardly ever leaves the desk, people are reporting wonders about tlp, whose author is a very dedicated Thinkpad user:

Code:

[root]~ # apt-cache show tlp
Package: tlp
Priority: optional
Section: utils
Installed-Size: 264
Maintainer: Thomas Koch <[email protected]>
Architecture: all
Version: 0.3.5-2
Recommends: ethtool, wireless-tools
Suggests: smartmontools
Depends: pm-utils
Conflicts: pm-utils-powersave-policy
Filename: pool/main/t/tlp/tlp_0.3.5-2_all.deb
Size: 27932
MD5sum: 0d82fab16354f87e35250e2d705a76ef
SHA1: 376f3791f8f7ae64af393889f529fa3bd55b3189
Description: Saves battery power on laptops
 TLP is a collection of scripts enabling implementing
 power save features for laptop hardware.

launchpad.net/~linrunner/+archive/tlp/+packages
github.com/linrunner/TLP/wiki/TLP-Linux-Advanced-Power-Management
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Tlp
de.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/TLP (if you can read German)
thinkpad-wiki.org/TLP_-_Linux_Stromsparen (if you can read German)

 

From [Phoronix] The Leading Cause Of The Recent Linux Kernel Power Problems

From [Phoronix] Surprising Power Consumption Of Ubuntu 11.04 vs. Windows 7

 

I've been running kubuntu exclusively on my x200t for the past year since I purchased it. *buntu has the best tablet support that I've come across in an out-of-the-box distro. I recently reinstalled Windows 7 on my T510 since I had been switching hard drives around. I couldn't believe how much more intrusive it was compared to linux. The updates...oh the updates! When I turn my computer on, I intend to use it. Having Windows continuously reboot my computer at startup to install updates was too much for me. I have since put Kubuntu back on it.

 

Windows 7 actually runs real nice and yes, the first time you will have to do an couple of updates and reboots.

But I wonder how the wacom digitizer works for you? This is the biggest problem for me because of the extreme sensitivity.

 

So I installed TLP. So every time I'm on battery do I need to run the terminal "sudo tlp bat" or does it automatically adjust depending on whether i'm on AC or battery?

 

I would expect this to happen automagically, at least that is what i remember when i once installed it for a short time last year (i deinstalled it because my Thinkpad is always on the desk anyway). I'd recommend to simply read the fine documentation, either the README files located in /usr/share/doc/tlp/ or the man page for tlp.

 

Well the update problem continued even after all the main updates and service pack installation. Unfortunately, I give that win to linux. My wacom works flawelessly in ubuntu/kubuntu. I use kubuntu because the interface is a lot easier to navigate with stylus than unity. The only issue I had was with display rotation. I had to write (well I modified someone else's) a script and map it to the buttons on the display. Honestly, it wasn't a big deal and it was a huge win for me. The other distros i tried had issues with wacom (fedora, debian, arch). The only other distro in which the scripts worked was openSUSE, but I encountered other graphical issues with it.

 

I am quad booting: Windows 7 Professional, Arch Linux XFCE, Fedora 16 Gnome, and Mageia 1 KDE on my X220.

I have been liking Fedora, but I can't say I'm a big fan of Gnome 3 in it's present incarnation - yet it won Linux Journal's Reader's Choice "Product of the year award"! Go figure!
Readers' Choice Awards 2011 | Linux Journal
The Gnome developers throw up all the roadblocks they can to hinder user configuration of Gnome 3. Gnome 3 is touchscreen-centric. It is not optimized for use on a conventional laptop or desktop IMO.

Arch XFCE is my favorite at the moment. More difficult to set up, but I like the results better. XFCE is somewhat like Gnome 2 - the previous generation of Gnome.

Mageia 1 KDE is very nice although it does take the longest to boot up. KDE is probably the most Windows like of the three.

Windows 7 is Windows - what can I say?

All in all, they all actually work pretty well.

 

I had used different Ubuntu and Linux Mint versions on almost all my TPs and never had big problems in any of them. Currently I have windows only in my 240x (Win98), 760XD (NT) and 14" T61 (Win7 Ultimate), oh! Wife's Z61m has Win7 too...

 

what can you do in Linux that you can't do it Windows 7?

 

I guess this largely depends on each users' own personal requirements, with no size fitting all and everyone. Here is a selection of what is of some relevance for me:

Don't bother about computer viruses, don't bother about licensing and license activation, don't worry about any legal aspects regarding software distribution and use, freely choose between various excellent Linux distribution variants without any vendor lock in, choose between various advanced desktop environments and versatile window managers, run and switch between multiple parallel graphical user sessions on the same machine, manage clean program installation/deinstallation via a unified package management system, always have a user friendly command line environment with all the nice UNIX standard commands at your fingertips, and, last not least, freely give away and share the system with anybody.

Other than that there is probably not really much difference, unless one requires to run specific commercial applications which are simply not available for Linux. But personally, i couldn't care less about the latter, because Linux offers all i actually need. And much more than that: Freedom!

 

in linux you don't need to defrag, where as in win7 you do unless you have ssd. And in linux I never worried about catching viruses.

 

What package management system are you referring to?

 

Plus I find that Linux runs much more quickly and smoothly than Windows 7 does.

Besides if I'm doing schoolwork, I'll have to say that Linux will be my go to operating system for normal/casual use.

 

Because virtualization is for wimps.

 

Ever heard about the Debian package management (keywords: apt/dpkg) or the Redhat package management (keywords: yum/rpm)? A pity no such thing is available as standard on Windows.

 

Yes, of course I have. But there is no "uniform" package system across all distros.

Lets keep the Linux versus Windows holy war out of the thread and this forum.

 

Well, i guess that i must have been very negligent with my wording, as you obviously understood me wrong. Please pardon my bad English writing skills!

I never claimed that there was a single uniform package system shared between all Linux distributions. Each Linux distribution usually includes a uniform package management as integral part of its particular system. Any attempt to cover the package management of all different distributions in one single management system would be simply impossible to manage.

No problem, just don't get started with one and all is cool.

 

Install as many times as I want without having to call a vendor and humbly request permission.

Install any of several thousand applications with one command, comforted by the knowledge that the download is from a trusted source and will receive updates automatically for life.

Get all the features of my OS without paying extra upgrade fees for an "Ultimate" edition.

Modify anything from my device drivers to my word processor as I see fit. Bleeding edge feature or feature not officially supported on my hardware? I can enable it. Minor bug that clashes with my workflow? I can apply a patch without waiting for a vendor to get around it.

Run anything in a (nearly) complete sandbox.

Upgrade to a new version of my OS, including every single program, with two commands.

Enjoy superb remote management and operation of my machine. Remote Desktop is a nothing like ssh + X11.

Modify my desktop's UI to suit my workflow, not vice versa.

 

Apparently the masses don't want that. What is linux market share on the desktop?

 

Last I checked, Linux desktop share was ~1% and dropping.

That said, I've been using Linux for 5-7 years on and off. It has many advantages that you just can't readily find in the other OSs. Currently, I run Linux Mint 11 from a fast USB stick with persistence. I can use it virtually anywhere on any computer that supports booting from USB.

Linux does have a steeper learning curve. Even for some simple tasks, one has to be proficient with using command line codes in the terminal. Troubleshooting issues can be a nightmare. More so than on Windows or OSX, IMO.

 

I've been running linux since 1994 but I try to stay out of the holy war aspects of the discussion until someone starts talking trash.

The linux community and vendors tried and failed. Maybe someday they'll succeed in managing 10% market share, but probably not in my lifetime.

 

Talking trash? That's a bit unfair and hostile isn't it? I see many rational posts extolling the virtues of Linux versus other OSs and what's more, they did so stating personal preference reasons.

Additionally, many valid comparisons to Windows 7 were made. What seems to be the issue? What "war" are you referring to?

 

Nope. There is some trash talking going in in previous posts. I think the thread needs to be moved to the linux forum since it really has gravitated (as usual) into a thread that has nothing to do with a ThinkPad.

If it remains here and open, I will post some information in the morning that counters some of the ridiculous information in it.

 

The thread is not going to be moved or closed because it's an entirely appropriate subject in the appropriate section of the forum.

Whatever you post, I ask that you respect the posters in this forum. Calling their opinions "trash" and "ridiculous" is wholly unnecessary, rude and obnoxious. And frankly will not be tolerated going forward. If you disagree with a poster's opinion(s), simply counter it with an opinion of your own in a respectful manner.

 

Running linux exclusively on my main machine. In fact, never even booted Win7 on my W510 or Vista-or-whateveritwascalled on my T61p. Thinkpads are great for running linux. And powerful enough for virtualization, if you really need a little windows occasionally. Dual booting feels so 90ies.

Classic: Regarding software installation in Win vs linux:
Ubuntucat Blog Archive Software installation in Linux is difficult

 

Code:

int engage_sarcasm() {

/* Too bad Linux failed so hard at the NYSE, LSE, TSE, half of the world's web servers, 90% of supercomputers worldwide, the Large Hadron Collider... on Android smartphones and tablets. But 2012 is the year of linux on the desktop, haven't you heard? :-P */

return 0;

}

I recently had to load windows back onto my X220 to flash a custom BIOS, which annoyed me greatly. So I now am technically dual booting, uhg.

 

You could always burn the BIOS ISO image also provided by Lenovo to a high quality CD and perform the BIOS upgrade by booting from CD. People without CD drive also have created bootable USB sticks to perform the BIOS upgrade. There is no need at all to rely on any specific operating system to perform such tasks.

 

I used this method: BIOS Upgrade - ThinkWiki. Worked flawlessly.

But I'm afraid of the time I have to upgrade the firmware of my Samsung SSD. I couldn't yet find any mention of way to do it via Linux. Even the creation of a DOS USB drive (which is still possible) relies exclusively on their Windows software.

On a more general note, why Linux? I'm using my system in a way that would more or less be impossible on Windows. Sure, there are ports, virtual machines and cygwin, but the software I'm using is designed for Linux. So for me the question would rather be: Why Windows? Why should I use a system that narrows my options in configuration so much? (Leaving aside free software or no viruses considerations, which are important in themselves.)

Obviously Windows's approach is one that has mass appeal (or very clever business strategists ). Obviously most people want their computers to work out of the box and won't spend hours configuring it. That's why they need usable default configurations, which should be fine and which has been Linux's known weakness for a long time. But for people who have technical knowledge or special needs that's a different matter. For me it's not that one is better or worse than the other. I'm using Linux, Windows would be unworkable.

 

I guess this sums it up pretty well. Windows has its place and is very important in our modern world. There is also no point to fight or compete against it, because it fills a specific need for which it was designed, and apparently does it rather good. Linux has a very different approach, based on a completely different UNIX culture, and that is why some people like and prefer it.

It may have less than 1% of the market share, but this doesn't really matter, as Linux is not about any share in a market for which it was never really designed, since it was more or less created by and for its own user base according to their own needs. It is here and readily available, regardless of any market share. And unlike other dominant market share holders, it is not mainly a money generation machinery, but does create and supply source code which is not going away even if some Linux business model fails and doesn't produce any money anymore. Linux freely provides its crown jewels to everybody's disposal who respects its free nature. There is so much richness in it, but not everybody is able or willing to understand that.

Personally i use Linux because it fulfills my own professional and personal needs much better than any other OS. These needs are apparently not relevant at all for the major share of the global computer user base, and that is definitely okay. Most people can't be bothered with the technical understanding needed to start taking real advantage of Linux. But I, like many others, do have sufficient technical expertise to be comfortable with the complexity of UNIX, and therefore Linux is just a straight forward piece of cake for me. To each his own.

 

Exactly, rumbero. Though I mainly use Win7, I supplement with Linux because I can do certain things in it that I can't readily do in any other OS. Or at least not as easily.

Linux isn't going away nor is market share all that relevant considering its typical user base.

 

Well, some of the statements above are ridiculous or trash talk in my mind. Anyone who doesn't "worry about any legal aspects regarding software distribution and use" isn't grounded in reality. There are way too many suits that come up on a daily basis and you can't run a business and ignore legal aspects of software use. It doesn't matter what platform you use. There are commercial aspects and intellectual property on all of them that really must be considered.

If you don't think Thinkrob was trash talking about windows in his comments, then you simply aren't considering all sides.

Sorry if you thought I was being rude and obnoxious, but I find the same about you and your cohorts. It doesn't do anyone any good to be that way so I will just ignore this thread from now on. I see no further value with the views here, and I'm sure you feel the same about mine.

 

Everyone relax a little. This is a thread meant to talk about Linux in our think pad community. There is no reason to get so worked up, it's the Internet.

 

Yeah that has worked for stock BIOS updates, or using geteltorito.pl, but this one needed a patched flasher, which unfortunately is windows-only. :-/