How does the new T-series (T440) compare to macbook pro ?

I have been reading nothing but bad reviews ..

I understand that for business people, the new thinkpads are not as good as they used to be, specially when it comes to the trackpoint and the keyboard and low-end nividia cards, and laptops expandability (like only 42mm M.2 port) ..etc

But,

How does it compare to macbook pro, which they seem to be trying to compete with ?

How good is the touchpad, any problem with the clickiness in it, does it work properly, or is the clickiness make it harder ?
Can we ignore or not use the clickiness and use it as a normal touch pad ?

How good is the screen for office applications ? easy to look at and comfortable with warm colors (not too blue-ish) ? contrast and brightness are good/acceptable ? (taking specially regarding the cheapest 1366x768)

 

Lenovo seems to try to compete with Apple's styling, but in a Thinkpad-ish way (still black, still has a TrackPoint, etc.). However, the build quality of a business-class laptop still far exceeds that of a consumer-class laptops like the MBP (or rMBP).

Personally though, I'd avoid 768p like The Plague. It's a garbage resolution for garbage displays. If you're going with a T440 (or really, anything that's not a bargain-bin laptop), get the 1080p display. Not only will you have more screen real estate to work with, but the overall quality of the display will be much higher (more vivid colors, higher contrast, etc.).

Just a quick screen real estate comparison:

Spoiler

768p:


900p:


1080p:

 

A lot of the negativity you see floating around is from long time ThinkPadders about Lenovo's decision to change the trackpoint setup and keyboard. If you're not used to them, it's probably not much of an issue. All clickpads I've seen have a click to them including Apples. I don't know how Lenovo would get around it. You can always use tap to click, which should work on most.

I don't believe the FHD IPS LCD is available on the vanilla T440. You must buy the T440p or T440s to get it.

One thing I would say about Apple is they do not offer accidental warranty coverage. That might be important for a notebook that travels a lot cause they tend to get dinged.

 

ZaZ sums it up nicely - a lot of longtime Thinkpad users strongly dislike the new keyboard (chiclet, layout) and the new clickpad (namely the absence of discrete buttons).

That being said, if you're a first-time Thinkpad buyer, then I wouldn't worry. The keyboard is amazing and I don't have any issue with it's layout. The clickpad is quite good, in my opinion, although you'll find that the Trackpoint is superior. I can see how discrete buttons might improve the experience, but it's nonetheless very nice as it is.

In the MBP vs. Thinkpad debate, it sort of depends on what Thinkpad you want. I wouldn't choose the T440 for its lack of a FHD IPS screen. The 440p is substantially cheaper and more powerful than its Mac counterpart. The T440s, on the other hand, is much more similar in weight and size to the MBP. It has an inferior screen, graphics, and processor, but makes up for it with Trackpoint, keyboard, upgradeability, durability, replaceability,and a slight savings in cost.

 

T440 has a 900p display, i don't know what you guys are on.

 

I'm thinking about the T440s and T440p. At least those would be the 14" Thinkpads I'd consider.

 

Which are really nothing new for those of us who have been around ThinkPads for a long time...

Unless you get a 1080p screen, there's no reason to buy a T440p or T440s in the first place in my opinion. The HD panel will be a horror show, like all the similar TN offerings in the same size/resolution.

 

Yeah, but the T440s/p have light bleed and yellowing issues.

 

I have no light-bleed or yellowing issues with my T440s and the AUO screen.

 

Guess you got lucky, the issues are with the LG screen. Whichever you get is a gamble, just like the Y510p with Matte/Glossy.

 

Thinkpadders are a grouchy bunch... certainly not quite as fanboy-like as Apple users The latest redesign of the T-series has alienated a lot of loyal fans, but that's no different to every other major redesign over the last decade or more. I've used MBPs at work and Thinkpads at home for years and both have pros and cons.

Fit and finish of the MBP is better IMO, but actual build quality (ie how solid they ultimately are) is about on par. There's no denying the aluminum case of the MBP looks and feel far better than the plastic Thinkpad, for example, but I've accidentally dented many a MBP over the years. I've yet to crack a Thinkpad case (though that might be because I'm more careful with my own property!) but the assorted gaps, creaks and flex in Thinkpad cases do not impart the same feeling of quality as a MBP.

The new clickpad is great for tap-to-click users like me, but is not so good for actual clickers because of the lack of discrete buttons and the fact that travel of the pad when clicking is just a bit too much to allow easy control. IMO it relegates the trackpoint to a second-best mousing option on Thinkpads rather then the best. I've always liked the Apple touchpad as a "touch" pad, not so much as a clickpad. The new Thinkpad version is almost as good as Apple's as a "touch" pad and about the same IMO as a "click" pad.

Component-wise, the comparison depends on what you need from your computer. I bought a T440p because I wanted a fairly portable quad-core, dual-drive system with a decent FHD display. Yes, I'm disappointed in the underwhelming GPU option and annoyed at the semi-useless M.2 slot, but I can live with it and I ended up spending far less money than if I'd bought a low-end, quad-core Dell XPS15/M3800 or MBP that I was also considering (and the MBP does not have a dual-drive option at all).

However, going back to the fit and finish question, my T440p needed two repairs as soon as I received it -- a new fan assembly (the original was very noisy) and a new display panel (the original had excessive backlight bleed). The new display (AUO) is much better and calibrates to about 99% of the sRGB space, which makes it as accurate as any Apple retina display. I would not buy any of Lenovo's lower-resolution displays because I know from experience that they are not very good (I have an HD+ display on my T420 and it's usable for basic office work but I would not do any photo editing on it, for example.)

 

Do you guys know if the T440 Touchscreen with the HD+ 900 screen is a good enough panel? (AUO) or similar.

 

Apple's machines are all around better built -- aluminum versus the cheaper, thinner plastic that Lenovo keeps moving to, it's a no-brainer. I don't have a MacBook at the present time (my last was a Retina MBP15), but comparing to the TPYogas I have in the office now, the fit and finish just isn't comparable. The trackpads are on different planets -- Apple has really excelled with theirs, and while I think Lenovo will get there, they're not there yet.

That said, Lenovo wins in the price category the vast majority of the time, spec for spec -- it's closer now than it has been, but Apple does still charge a small premium. There's also that Windows factor -- and while Bootcamp works, it's not a perfect solution in all cases, some of the drivers can be a little wonky. Plus, no reasonable dock solutions (Thunderbolt is great, don't get me wrong -- the dock products are just semi-prohibitively expensive right now, as are most other accessories using that port).

 

Yogas aren't actual Thinkpads Those are just dressed-up Ideapads with the Thinkpad paint-job.

The "true" ones (X/T/W) may have ABS plastic skins, but the internal frames themselves are mag-alloy, so they offer the same, if not better, protection than the MBP. Bit better ascetically since plastic can "bounce back" after a fall/etc. whereas pure metal simply dents (like crazy).

Personally, I don't see the point of a touchpad, the point stick is a lot more useful overall, though that's just my two cents.

 

I know what you mean -- I've had several ThinkPads, all the way back from about the X20/T40 through W530 and now these Yogas, and a T440p I sent back last week. I have a W540 on the way (eventually, whenever Lenovo decides it's time to build and ship it I guess, delayed 3 times now).

The overall build quality has started to suffer, I feel, where Apple seems to have remained fairly uniform. The T440p was just sad with light bleed, loud fans, etc.

 

Nothing's ever perfect, and from what I read IBM-built Thinkpads were just tanks (I've only ever owned Lenovo-branded ones, so I can't comment). Also haven't played with any of the --40 series yet. Though just between the two I own (X61t, W520), they both feel pretty solid to me, even though they're ~5 years apart). The X61t's suffering from a slightly bubbling screen (apparently a common defect in the 1400x1050 models), though I knew that before buying. Point is, the individual components can be troublesome (bubble display, yellowing display, Intel's Sandy-Bridge AES-NI problem, etc.), though overall I've been happy with the X61t/W520 and the Thinkpads I've reviewed (X120e, W530) and played with (T420, T430).

It'd be nice if Lenovo kept the 7-row keyboard though. And *especially* the forward/back buttons! That's the #1 thing I'm personally sore about, since I use those all the time.

 

Indeed. I have bought two thinkpads in my life so far, an SL510 years ago and recently a T440p. Both times I pulled the trigger grudgingly. In constrat, I fetched a 2011 MBA for wife rather enthusiastically at the time of purchase (which dubbed as my "backup" mobility solution for the last 2 years).

There is perhaps one thing I have "against" the MBP/MBAs - the more ubiquitously I see them in Starbucks and in ever gigglier hands, the less I want myself to be "seen with one".

 

The total absence of magnesium structure frame from the T440p has not deterred the company from attaching the venerable "T"-prefix and "p"-suffix to it.

It's galling.

The T440s, OTOH, I believe still has a magnesium chassis, as does the T540p/W540 line.

 

The T440p has a Magnesium Structure-Frame under the palmrest/keyboard like the T540p/W540.

 

Okay. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Here is the HWMM of T440p, do you see even a passing reference to "magnesium structure frame"?

In constrast, the HWMM of T540p/W540 makes ample reference to it.

At most there is a smidgen of magnesium alloy in the lid of T440p I believe (and I am by no means claiming mag-alloy is the end-all and be-all).

It would have been better for Lenovo to rename the T440p to "E440p" as in "economical". A "T" model should be built to T "standard".

And there is nothing wrong with a little truth in advertising - I would have still bought it if I deem it meeting my needs.

 

If that's the case, that the T440p is indeed lacking this reinforcement, that would indeed be galling. I haven't looked at the insides of the T440p in videos recently, though if it's true that it's just plastic, all the more reason to avoid it imo; it'd be no better than the L series.

There's no law saying that Lenovo must reserve the T series name for only their high-quality mainstream business-class laptops. Though if they're going to break it, it'll only hurt their image more with the "hard-core" Thinkpad fans. Throughout a few posts here on NBR, I've already expressed my interest in replacing my Thinkpads with something like a Latitude or Elitebook if they die on me; the only reason I ever went to the Thinkpad was due to the traditional keyboard layout (back during the --20 era where only Thinkpads, Toughbooks, and Alienwares still held out against island-style keyboards) and, after using them for awhile, the specialty keys they places (forward/back, for example). With both of those gone, I personally don't see much value in getting a Thinkpad over an equally-spec'd Latitude/Elitebook anymore :/.

 

@axr,
The Structure-Frame is listed there as Part #7. It is the part where the motherboard sits in. It seems it is considered a part of the base-cover in the T440p and because of this not listed in the HMM. The T540p/W540 have a slightley different architecture.

You can see it here: ThinkPad T440p Service Training In the section of the FRU removal videos, you cann see the Structure frame when the remove the palmrest for example or the mainboard.

The lid of the T440p is made of CFRP/GFRP, not Magnesium.

 

Okay. I must concede that I am mistaken and withdraw my comments based on incorrect speculations. But the "roll cage" is gone from T440p, no?

And it's good to know that Lenovo hasn't forsaken the last vestiges of respectability of the "T" name.

Maybe I'll look at my T440p with a bit of new fondness after all.