Help me fall in love with the T420

With the awesome 35% and 10% coupons right now for the T420 I can't shy away from them. My previous budget was about $600-$700, but those are the "design" laptops (z560, inspiron 15r, acer timelinex, etc). I have heard nothing but RAVE reviews for the ThinkPads, I just could never get over the "ancient" look and feel. I am paralegal starting school June 7th and need a new laptop. I will obviously need it for massive note taking, word, excel, powerpoint, but I also use a lot of Adobe suite products for personal use (CS5, Audition, Premiere, etc). Is it worth it to drop the extra coin on a T420 over say something more in the "design" laptop section? I've never thought of going into a business class laptop, but since I am going into paralegal/law school I need that over other things. Here is the one I have configured...please let me know if I should take anything away, etc...I want this to last a LONG time. I've heard the finger print reader is worth forgoing, and I already know to NOT upgrade RAM or HDD and do that later.

Any input would be greatly appreciated! I want to get into Lenovo, just need some advice and if it is a smart move.

ThinkPad T420 - 1 Yr Depot Topseller Warranty Edit
Processor: Intel Core i5-2410M Processor (2.30GHz, 3MB L3)
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64
14.0 HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
Intel HD Graphics 3000
2 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad plus Fingerprint reader
250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
DVD recordable multiburner
Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader
6 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55+
IEEE 1394a port
Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable

For $806.38 after tax and free shipping. Originally it would be $1305. I upgraded the processor to the i5-2410M from the i3-2310M (+$47), screen from 1368x768 to the 1600x900 (+$47), and added fingerprint reader ($18).

What are the advantages of the T420 over say the IdeaPad? (aside from the sandy bridge processor)

 

My personal opinion is that if we have to talk you into wanting it you'll never be happy with it. But that's just me.

 

May I ask where did you get the 35% and 10% coupons.

Everything looks pretty good, this is probably the configuration I am going to get if I was going for an T420.

 

Not talk me into it per se...tell me why people prefer Lenovo over say Vostro's or other "Business" style laptops. I have NO experience with Lenovo...only Dell and HP

I don't know if I can post slickdeal links, but let me know if I need to pull this!
Lenovo Family & Friends 10% coupon on T420, T520, T420s - T420 starting at $633.65 - Slickdeals.net

Here's another configuration...is there a huge advantage of the i5 over the i3 other than the boost speed?


Intel Core i3-2310M Processor (2.10GHz, 3MB L3)1
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 6412
14.0 HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
Intel HD Graphics 3000
2 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)8
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad
250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm4
DVD recordable multiburner5
6 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55+60
No Bluetooth
Intel Centrino Wireless-N 100010
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable65
4177: 1 Year Depot Warranty - TopSeller7

This would be $742 after tax.

it would be $787 with the i5 processor instead.

 

I cannot use any other laptop after owning a Thinkpad.

I dropped my laptop dozen of times and it never broke.

The keyboard is amazing.

The overall feel of the laptop is sturdy, simple, and rugged.

The look of the Thinkpad might be bland to some people but to me, it's very elegant.

The only two brands I would consider is Macbook Pro or Thinkpad.

 

Good durability, good keyboard, and better than average support. The Vostro is really one class below Thinkpad T serise (budget vs premium business notebook). The proper comparison is to Dell Latitude and HP Elitebook. Of course Thinkpad is the first to build a reputation as as high quailty notebook computers.

 

Dell's Vostro line is for entry-level business. While it's not bad, it doesn't match up with the ThinkPad T-series for size, weight, or durability. The comparable Dell laptop would be the (more expensive) Latitude E6420.

I've had two ThinkPads, and am about to have a third. They have the best keyboards of any laptop I've used. If you're a fast typer who doesn't like to leave the keyboard to use the mouse, the Trackpoint will be your best friend --while the Latitude line and HP's Elitebooks have this, I don't care for the feel as much.

Construction on the T-series ThinkPads is excellent and the designs are well thought-out and engineered. Best display hinges in the industry, and a solid, magnesium-framed chassis.

Any criticism I have for the ThinkPad line revolves around the consistency of Lenovo's support. This can be uneven. Driver and BIOS support is usually excellent, but some people have had issues when needing service. Most people here will recommend you tack on onsite service to your warranty to ensure best service in case you have an issue needing repair.

Despite that, I keep getting ThinkPads for myself. The T-Series usually comes out a little less expensive than Dell's Latitude line, and has no problem competing with it as far as performance and design go. To date, my T400 has been the best laptop I've owned; I can only hope my T420 will continue that tradition when it arrives.

 

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a T420 myself. I've decided that on the PC side, business class is the only way to go. With few exceptions, consumer-oriented laptops are built with shockingly low standards, in terms of materials and all the details that go into a solid computing experience. Plastic typically feels cheap, and creaks if you apply a bit of pressure. Touchpads and their buttons are often almost worthless. Fans run loud. Screens are glossy, with low viewing angles and low resolution. This is not the recipe for a happy computing experience.

I can't say that all of the above qualities apply to the models you mentioned, but most reviews don't go into a lot of details about these factors, whereas I know from experience that ThinkPad build quality is extremely solid. The keyboard is without equal, and the trackpoint is the only way to go for built-in pointing devices, in my opinion.

Good question about the CPU. I'm not sure it's worth the extra cash to upgrade from the base CPU; I'd also be interested in feedback as to how big the difference is, and if it's a worthwhile upgrade. I'd like to spring for the built-in camera and Bluetooth, but $100 is a good chunk of change to save if you're not doing CPU-intensive computing.

 

If you are going into the legal field, do yourself a favor and get a professional laptop, not a consumer piece of junk.

Just some advice, dont call paralegal school "/law school" the attorneys you will work with will find this amusing and not in a good way.

 

I would say the main reasons for choosing a ThinkPad are durability and features in a decent form factor. When I say durable I mean durable; I have a decade-old T21 which works just fine and a 15 year-old 380ED that works just fine except for a dead battery. A friend of mine has a T41 that I Frankensteined together for him a few years ago and it still works well for him. My T500 has survived an eight-foot drop while still in its bag(I eventually replaced the display because of dead pixels and one of the latches broke off). These are machines that you end up replacing because you need a hardware upgrade; not because they're falling apart on you.

My personal opinion is that if you cart your computer around with you on a daily basis and absolutely have to rely on it, there's nothing better than a business-grade notebook. As previously mentioned the Latitudes and Elitebooks are also viable choices, but I like the ThinkPad design for my own reasons. I may get some glitzy, high-performing gaming system to play around on, but I'll always have a TP standing by for my real work.

 

Here's why I prefer ThinkPads over all other laptops that I've tried:

1) Linux support. ThinkPads are basically as close to Intel reference platforms as you can get. As such, their support of Linux is usually flawless.

2) They work. It's as simple as that. Most of my laptops are tools for work, so I want them to... uh... work. ThinkPads do. They're reasonably durable, quite reliable, and generally exceptionally good simply getting out of the way and letting me work.

That said, I agree with JaneL: if you need to have somebody sell you on one, you might be doing yourself a disservice.

 

Thank you all for the HUGE response! Those were exactly what I was looking for because I am foreign to the brand. You all have made me fell more secure about it.

I would still like to know if the i5 is worth the extra $47 bucks...it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but still...is it needed.

Reason I said that is because I am starting with Paralegal to get my foundation and then going on to law school. I guess I should have said paralegal and then law school.

 

The i5-2410m is a massive jump in performance from the i3. Well worth the extra $50 and not much at all if you keep the machine a few years. Also consider that when you decide to sell it (whenever that is), resale will likely be much better with an i5 vs i3.

 

Thanks for the heads up on upgrading. Another note...I've read that the finger print reader is more of a hindrance than a convenient factor...true?

 

Where did you see a comparison between the two? I just did some searches earlier tonight, and came up empty -- the big Sandy Bridge analysis on Anandtech, for example, was about the desktop CPUs, not mobile.

Also, I wonder if there's much of a difference between the i5-2410m & i5-2520m (another ~$50 jump)

 

PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

Compares CPU benchmark scores.

Seems really inaccurate though.

 

have you tried sleeping with your T420?

 

About 15 seconds with that site is enough. Not much credibility there.
There should be some better articles with benchmarks out there. There's this, but no i3-2310M or i5-2410M:
Intel?s Sandy Bridge i7-2820QM: Upheaval in the Mobile Landscape - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

 

You might want to read this. i5-2520M is at least comparable in performance compared to last generation i7-720QM, but it is about 65% less compared to i7-2820QM.

ASUS K53E: Testing Dual-Core Sandy Bridge - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

 

Thank you for all your help! I think I have finally gotten the configuration that would suit me well. I decided to add bluetooth in case I want a wireless mouse...or do you think it is pointless to add the bluetooth without the webcam?

There is absolutely NO need for a webcam for me...I don't use them at all. Let me know what you think.

$735 before tax. I wish there was a way around taxes....boo

Intel Core i5-2410M Processor (2.30GHz, 3MB L3)1
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 6412
14.0 HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
Intel HD Graphics 3000
2 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)8
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad
250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm4
DVD recordable multiburner5
6 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55+60
Bluetooth 3.0
Intel Centrino Wireless-N 100010
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable65
4177: 1 Year Depot Warranty - TopSeller7

 

This might cheer you up: Same configuration will start at around $1500 here in Europe so (9/10%?) tax in US is not that bad

And you have coupons in the US that will basically cancel out the taxes..

 

Why are you going to paralegal school and then law school, that is a waste of time and money.

 

Testing the waters and my background is in theatre so I have no legal, political science,etc background. Using it to get experience and grounding before I spend $45000 on one year of law school.

 

I posted this in the other thread. Ignore the data on the i7, it's not correct. I'm going for the i5-2520. Since the i3 wasn't an option for me at all, it's only a $50 upgrade from the 2410 to the 2520 and you get slightly better GPU performance with anything 2520 and up. There's still a decent margin in CPU performance between the 2520 and 2410. That type of margin only really diminishes after the 2520, so that's the sweet spot. (if you do serious 3d rendering looks like the higher processors are still worth it, but this applies to very few people)

Also look at the UK thread. Some major features that are options on the X220i (i3 and i5-2410) are standard on the X220 (i5-2520 and up). Don't know where you are and if that will apply to the US.

 

ThinkPads happen to be overrated by some/to some while others underrate them untill they happen to experience their durability in real life scenario.

Tho Ive criticized ThinkPads before due to poor quality or unsatisfactory build quality here and there on two different machines that Ive owned(R400&T410), but even I must admit that nothing happened when one day I dropped mine from 1ft on to carpeted floor - I didnt care about it since its ThinkPad and only thing that happened was battery detached from laptop but nothing was broke and laptop was running well, then again, 1ft is NOTHING and any customer pc would probably survive that, except for LCD (it was good ol' R400 with screen roll cage) ofcourse.
Then again, other time I was putting my ThinkPad into shelve and I slammed it into shelve real hard with its lid(side of it, not the top), nothing happened, not a scratch, I would really be upset if that happened with less enforced laptop because either plastics or LCD could have been damaged, but I didnt care about it, I knew my ThinkPad will survive it.

If youre bothered about style and can live with few shortcomings like limited screen resolution (albeit excellent so it seems IPS screen options) and 12.5" (versus older yet more compact 12.1" size) laptop size then perhaps go for X220, it definitely looks better than T420 which remind me of sausage from hotdog due to its decreased depth and increased width.

Or wait month or two and see how prices drop even further on T420s, unless battery life over 4+h is very important to you.

 

Thanks for posting that. Where is it from?
The spread is definitely larger than I would have expected. Probably enough to make me spring for the 2520, even though I usually don't push the CPU.

I'm in the US, and for the T420 the only difference between T420i and the lowest T420 seems to be the CPU.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Like with alot of things in life you either lust after a thinkpad or you hate them.

 

It's from notebookcheck.

 

Thinkpad laptops has always been sturdy. Since you're not getting a discrete graphics card, you won't have many problems that us with discrete cards are getting. Thinkpads are generally great laptops, but its their customer/repair service that's a hit or a miss. When I sent mine in for repair it actually came back WORSE then when I shipped it. So be warned. Having said that, since you want your laptop to last you a long time, I would actually suggest to get the extended warranty, even though normally I don't recommend those things.

 

Customer service for all major OEMs is hit or miss. I called HP for a warranty repair and got a US based call center that was nice and didnt need clarification/translation of what I was saying. I called the next day to make sure things were going well and got a run call center in another country. I have also had the reverse of that scenario as well. Its always dependent on who picks up the phone for you.

 

I usually don't get those mostly because I an very adept at repairing things myself so I am passing on the extended warranty, nut thank you for the insight!

I agree that any customer archive Is a hit or miss. Was dealing with my wifes hp that almost the bed but said eff it and read up on some things and fixed it for free.

 

I've had two ThinkPads with the fingerprint reader. My new T420 will be without it.

It doesn't speed up login, and it's really not any more secure than without; the most I can say is it impresses some people when it's time to resell your ThinkPad and get another one. Not having it is also one less piece of software and one less driver to have loaded.

Better to spend the money you save on a feature you'll actually use, such as upgrading the 1-year warranty to onsite instead of depot service, or (if these would be useful to you) the built-in webcam (which does help resale value to many) or Bluetooth, if you'd use it.

 

I'm with LoneWolf here, at first I thought the Biometric Fingerprint was a cool feature. But then I realise I just don't use it that often to justify having it anymore, the good old fashioned password was sufficient for me (generally my souped up ThinkPad spends more time at home than work!). In the end I realised it just wasn't worth adding the extra service, software and driver on Windows which is going to be wasted in the end.

It's probably useful in a corporate environment where data security is absolutely paramount, but as a home user it's probably a bit OTT in my experience. Oh and like LoneWolf I did not put fingerprint on my T420 either!

 

^^^ Corporate data security? Not! I could lift your laptop off your desk, yank the hard drive off the chassis on my way out the door, put it in a USB enclosure and look at the files while sitting in the parking lot.

The fingerprint reader offers no extra protection. Either data encryption or not storing any confidential information on your notebook's drive!

 

I for one do like the finger print reader. I have a long password and really dislike typing it in daily. I however, left off the webcam but now having giving it some thought, I wish I had opted for it. Not that I would use it, its because of the resale part.

 

There's nothing to steal in your laptops anyway unless you're Bill Gates or somekind of celebrity with money. So fingerprint reader is more for bragging rights and coolness rather than LOLProtection.

 

Well when I said that I assumed the user had already encrypted his drive in a corporate environment (it's good practice no? ). Of course if the user doesn't encrypt the drive then yes regardless if you have fingerprint, if the laptop got stolen and the thief slots the drive to a caddy then you're pretty much in doo doo land there!

 

I like the fingerprint reader too. If you lock your computer or put it to standby often it's pretty convenient. The Lenovo software isn't very good, for some reason there's lag between swiping your finger and it logging in. The Windows 7 fingerprint sw works much better. Worth the $20 imo and worth it when it's time to sell and a buyer wants it. If you don't like it just leave it disabled.

 

That.

But not this: "It's probably useful in a corporate environment where data security is absolutely paramount..." No, the Biometric Fingerprint Toy is absolutely not useful in a corporate environment where data security is absolutely paramount.

 

OK Kaso I guess I didn't word myself properly there - You Win!

 

Got the final config. What do you all think for this? I originally wanted to be in the $600-700 range, but I've totally falling for the T420 after learning more and more about it! Tax is the big bummer...but whatever.

Intel Core i5-2410M Processor (2.30GHz, 3MB L3)1
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 6412
14.0 HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
Intel HD Graphics 3000
2 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)8
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad
250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm4
DVD recordable multiburner5
6 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55+60
Bluetooth 3.0
Intel Centrino Wireless-N 100010
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable65
4177: 1 Year Depot Warranty - TopSeller7

$833.98 after tax. Without webcam it would be $805.50

 

I was thinking of the same config, but NY sales tax bumps it up by $71.50! Only thing I would add to it is another 2GB RAM from newegg or some such vendor...will be well worth it.

 

My typical defense against this is to password-protect the hard drive via the BIOS. If you remove the drive and place it into another enclosure it won't even come up as a visible drive to the OS. I'm not saying data encryption isn't unnecessary, but for protecting information I deem vital on my machine I find it's enough to make me feel safe enough. I use the FP reader as I've put on a rather large and complex password on my machines; makes it much faster to get into the system.

 

This is a double edged sword. People have been in tough situations when they haven't been able to get to their data when their motherboard failed because the password protected hdd wasn't accessible by non-Thinkpad machines.

 

That is quite true, and is one of the reasons I have two ThinkPads. I figure if the mobo fails on one system I can put it into the other and at least remove the protections and access my data. I'm pretty sure even older TPs can at least allow you to enter an HDD password on a newer drive, so if someone was that scared about losing their data a second-hand T60/X60(the first to have internal SATA interfaces) might be pretty cheap insurance.

 

Some bad news on this front: HDD passwords are relatively easy to work around for any dedicated attacker.

Personally I use FDE. It's free, and it offers the same level of protection against everyone from your average dumb burglar to the FBI's best electronics experts: impenetrable*.

* Provided you have a sufficiently long key and actually keep said key secret.

 

Any HDD or RAM upgrade would definitely be through aftermarket especially with the new newegg $25 off $100 for new users.

Is Lenovo fine with the consumer opening the laptop and adding such items without it voiding the warranty?

 

Yep. Business laptops give you more freedom than consumer laptops.

 

If i keep reading this thread, I might end up ordering a T420s, and I just got my T410s ...

MUST LOG OFF!

 

ordered! Preliminary ship date of May 11th Frak I hope that comes before school! But it does give me time if better deals come out or lower prices, I can always cancel and rebuild.

Again, thank you all for your help with this!!! I knew ThinkPad's were high quality, but you all affirmed my opinion on them and made me confident in my decision!