Help Won X301 through ebay New or Refurbished?

I just won a Brand New Sealed in Box X301 through ebay with a starting bid of $999 for $1234 with the following specs:-

1.4 Ghz processor
Windows Vista Home Basic
2 gb ram
128 gb SSD
Ultra Thin DVD Writer
Webcam and Fingerprint Reader
Wifi and Bluetooth
3 Cell Battery

The seller is new. After having won and making the payment through paypal I am a bit concerned whether the laptop I am receiving is Brand New Sealed in Box or a Refurbished unit. The seller says the warranty on the laptop expires on June 3 2010 and it is upgradable through Lenovo. He had purchased it on corporateperks.com through his employer at a very low price with the intention of selling it at a profit. He claims the laptop is Brand New , Never opened and not refurbished. I have records of the conversation in My Messages section of my account in ebay.

The product number of laptop is 2777CTO. I could not find any details of the laptop on the Lenovo Warranty Look up site. Is there a sureshot way of knowing whether the laptop is Brand New as claimed by seller and not a refurbished unit with the help of the serial number. It was listed on ebay with
Item condition: New, Sealed in Box. Coverage: Pay with Paypal and your full purchase price is covered. Does Lenovo put a sticker on refurbished laptops like Dell does or is it packaged in different Box as compared to a Brand New laptop? How can I identify whether it is new or not? I will be receiving the laptop in a couple of days time? Should I open the package? If I find out that the Laptop is refurbished can I take the help of Full Buyer protection policy of ebay? Any experience how the buyer protection works? What is the warranty on refurbished laptops sold by Lenovo? Does it come in different Box ?

I know that 7 digit product number is changed when the laptop is refurbished with last 3 digits reflecting whether it is new or refurbished but this particular model is 2777CTO i.e Configure to Order laptop. How are CTO laptops which are refurbished labeled as. Does it continue to remain the same?

Please help as I don't know what to do and How to find out the condition of the laptop? Sorry for the long post but I am panicking.

 

You are best to call Lenovo. I'm also sure his corporate program doesnt appreciate him using the program for profit, assuming the guy is telling you the truth. If you do seriously intend to buy it, tell him if you are scammed you will look for him. You have to act like you are insane and do not like to be cheated. Ask him for his work address and drivers license number too. That usually scares the scammers away. lol.

 

If it's actually refurbished the model number would be 2007-ctr. I'm 90% sure that you bought a new machine. That should put your mind at ease.

 

Thanks for assuring me. Are all refurbished CTO machines relabeled as CTR with no exceptions whatsoever. Any other way of knowing the difference between the two.The reason for panicking is getting a Brand New Sealed x301with a great specification at such a low price. I had configured x301 on the cpp website with similar specifications and the price was closer to $1900. If it is Brand New then I will be on top of this world as I believe I have snatched a great deal on x301 at a steal. The seller does not have win7 upgrade disks. Is it possible to get a Brand New x301 through any employer program at a low price and still make a profit at the price the laptop was sold to me for. Any examples would be of great help in reassuring me. I believe even refurbished laptops with similar specs on Lenovo outlet sell at a better premium to the one I got a new laptop for.

 

Noob question: what does refurbished mean?

 

Refurbished basically refers to a used laptop which goes through all the steps of a recertification process like a new machine does which is conducted by the manufacturer so that laptop functions like a new machine. It may use refurbished parts. The manufacturer normally sells Refurbished machines at a significant discount as compared to New machines with the same specs. Sometimes the warranty on refurb machines is for a lower duration as compared to new machines.

I hope I have answered your question to your satisfaction.

 

Should check with 5-0 in case the machine is hot bra.

 

This is probably the worst advice I have seen for a long time. If the seller is a serious seller, chances are he will become very little interested in dealing with a buyer who as you recommend "acts insane", threatens the seller and ask him for unreasonable/irrelevant information like his driver license.

 

most ebay resellers purchase open box systems from the outlet and sell them on ebay as "refurbished".   so, while what zephir said about CTO vs. CTR usually holds true, the bigger question is how truthful the seller has been about the condition of the system.

before buying any thinkpad on ebay, i always recommend people ask the seller for the machine type and serial number so you can do a parts and warranty lookup.   if a seller is unwilling to provide the MTM/SN then they're most likely hiding something.

 

Even if you take them at the word and they bought it via their employer, why do you wait six months to sell it? Just my own personal opinion here, something isn't right here. You got to be very careful with eBay. There's a lot of very good deals there, but there's also a lot of scams too. You might want to post this over in the eBay forums. If you do buy, fund your Paypal purchase with a CC. That will give you more options should it not work out.

 

Since you have already won the auction, there is not much you (or we) can do now. Pay for it with CC (as ZaZ said), wait for the package to arrive, and check it carefully. If what you receive does not fit the item description, complain to the seller, and later complain to eBay.

 

I disagree. If the seller is legit, then he has no qualm about providing info any store would ask for in a financing situation. Since this is a cash deal with a stranger its OK to ask for specifics. Plus if they scam the guy he should go "insane" on him. In fact, if you want I can send some 350lb Somoans from the island to handle any type of situation that might arise. Firearms would not even be necessary to make this guy do good on the deal.

 

Have you ever sold any items on Ebay before?
Try ask for any power seller if they would give that info to you.
If the seller is a scammer, he would have been banned and his account would have been deactivated, plus, paypal is there to help in case the deal doesn't work out.

The seller may give out email, but that's about it.

 

Waa....I have already made the payment through my debit card linked with paypal. I am expecting the package to arrive in a day or two. What other options do I have as a buyer if a seller sells a refurbished unit as a brand new laptop.

 

If something happens let me me know.

 

Thanks for all your help. But the main question is ' Is there a sureshot way of knowing whether the laptop is Brand New or Refurbished ? ' The seller was honest enough in saying that the warranty was expiring on 3rd June 2010 and he claims that the package has never been opened and not refurbished.Is it possible to get x301 through employer program at a significant discount?

If the machine Type is 2777CTO and If I enter the serial number of the laptop on the lenovo warranty look up site and the warranty expiry date is the same then how will it help me in knowing the true condition. Will I be able to know with the help of parts look up on the warranty page. If the machine is refurbished do the parts number (FRU) changes?

What is the first thing I should do when I receive the package and how will I be able to differentiate between a new and refurbished laptop with the help of the outer package? If the product number is 2777CTO does it mean it is a new machine and cannot be a refurbished machine?

 

I don't know what's going on if you're a Lenovo employee, but in IBM EPP the discount is the same as the Friends and Family EPP price you guys get. :S

Also AFAIK X301 is their flagship and they exclude it from EPP/FNF sales. Even if they included it and assuming a max total sale of 50% it would cost $1500+. I don't want to influence you too much about the guy but I think it's too good to be true, and you know what they say about that.

As a comparison Guess/GAP and other department stores give their employees a 40%-50% off at best. Lenovo's profit margins are tiny compared to them.

gl I rly hope Im wrong

 

So you believe that I have been scammed and the guy is probably selling a used/refurbished laptop as brand new. Thanks that same thought is worrying me after having won the auction. But I couldn't refuse to make the payment as after having won the bid I was legally bound to make the payment to the seller otherwise I would have been in the bad books of ebay.

For the umpteenth time how do I find about about the condition of the laptop ? Should I refuse to accept the package and have a word with the seller before reporting him to ebay? Is there no way that a person is able to sell a Brand New Lenovo x301 with the specs I got for $1234 and still make a profit? Does ebay take any steps against sellers selling refurbished items as Brand New if reported ? The reason I am feeling insecure is even in the Lenovo outlet refurbished X301 with similar specs are selling for above $1200without taxes. I cannot take the seller to task unless I am able to prove that I have received a used/refurbished laptop instead of Brand New? What should I do?

 

if it has not been opened then the Lenovo sticker tapes should not be unbroken on the actual box, this will also tell you whether this machine is really new or second hand.

Depend on the volume of purchase by a corporation, the cost of thinkpads will vary quite dramatically. Some of my friends have obtained a large amount of thinkpads for resell and making a good profit on each machine sold, and they are selling specced up T500 at half of what Lenovo is selling on their websites even if you have used the EPP discounts.

 

I think he either got a large corporate discount but his company does not know he is selling it or the machine is stolen. What company do you know of that would negotiate discounts as a perk for their employees and like to see them on eBay? The guy is probably not smart enough to pass refurb for new. Check with 5-0 on the serial number. The seller need not open any box as should be on the invoice to him if it was bought.

 

Why is it so hard to believe that the X301 is available at a significant discount through some corporate purchases? Yes, they exist, and if this seller has gotten it at that price, then why bother? You won't know what you've got until you receive the product and if it's not up to expectations, then file a dispute to get it resolved. That's how eBay works and you must be well aware of the risks when engaging in an eBay transaction. Otherwise, just pay full price through Lenovo.

 

I respect your opinion but if you go through my thread in detail My main concern is Identifying a Refurbished Lenovo laptop from a Brand New One. I can only file a dispute if I am 100% sure that I have received a Refurbished laptop instead of Brand New Laptop as listed by the Seller and I am able to prove it and not otherwise. It would be unfair on my part to bring a seller to task if he gives me a Brand New laptop and still I file a dispute based on my assumptions. My friend had purchased a Refurbished Latitude E6400 from Dell and when I saw it, it looked Brand New to me with no signs of usage (blemishes,scratches) whatsoever. The only giveaway in his case was a green sticker saying 'Refurbished' at the bottom of the laptop. If not for the sticker there would be no way of identifying a new latitude E6400 with his Refurbished machine.

Has anyone purchased a Refurbished Laptop from Lenovo Outlet? Do they come with a sticker, different Box or any other indication as compared to new Lenovo laptops.

I understand that the seller may well have snagged a great deal on x301 through his employer program and for all we know it might be Brand New Sealed in Box. But How can I be sure of it ? The main reason for posting this thread is identifying a refurb laptop from a brand new one. Any buyer would feel cheated if he pays for a Brand New laptop and receives a Refurbished laptop which he is unable to differentiate.

If money was no constraint I would definitely have purchased directly through Lenovo and not ebay to be 100% sure and for my peace of mind. But alas that is not the case. I hope you understand my concern and don't take my feedback personally. The other reason for posting this thread is to get views from people who have purchased refurbished lenovo laptops and also what actions I can take when I receive the package in a couple of days time.
Should I open it and see the condition of the laptop or if I see that the seal has been tampered with return it immediately without opening it?

 

Bra, your doing the right thing. Don't let that poster rile you up. Intuitively, if I got an X301 for 50% off, I would not sell it. I would keep it. Unless this person has one already. It's also very unlikely a Lenovo/IBM employee would do this. So which company does so much business with Lenovo that they can extract a 50% discount for their people and let them buy unlimited quantities. Bra, I know people working in Silicon Valley, major IT and software companies, and none of them get these discounts. In the past it was maybe like once every two years can buy stuff from Dell during the dot com boom that this kind of thing happened.

 

ask the seller to provide you with the original sale receipt, you would need it in some cases, when you try to go oversea and need warranty, or buy warranty extension in some countries. This will also prove what he says is real or just a made up story.

In addition, if you use the serial number and model number, you will know where the machine is from, and you can call the Lenovo sales and obtain some basic sale transaction information.

 

This alone indicates that you may not be able to ascertain the condition of the item until you receive it. The alternative thing to do is to ask the seller to take photos of the laptop (or the box if it hasn't been opened), so you can have all the details, i.e. date of purchase/ship/production, where it came from, where it was delivered, the product configuration and the serial number. I still stand by my belief that you can't do much until you receive the item and it's not like you're not protected because if you buy through eBay and paid with Paypal, you get protection if the seller has misled you in any way by misrepresenting the item description. Photos of the box will also show the type of box (some refurbs ship in a brown box without Thinkpad markings) and the security seal on it.

 

I had asked the seller for the original sales receipt. This is the message which I had sent to him and his reply to my query.

"The payment for the Lenovo Thinkpad x301 has been done.I just wanted to
know if you would be sending the original invoice you had received when
you purchased the laptop.Thank You."

His reply "I don't think I have it anymore, but I can look. ? I'm new at selling on eBay, so I'm kinda learning as I go. ?I'll get the laptop shipped first thing Monday morning, and I'll ship it Next Day instead of 2nd Day."

What do you make of it? Would I be requiring the original sales receipt for warranty extension through lenovo or can I extend it without any proof of original Invoice? Can I refuse to accept the package when I receive it if he does not provide me with the original invoice ? Is production of ebay receipt good enough to extend warranty and a legitimate invoice of original purchase in my case? Can I get some basic sale transaction information about the laptop from lenovo sales if I give them serial number and model number? Thanks. I will wait for the package and keep you guys updated about the development.

 

until you get the thing in your hands and see it with your own eyes, there isn't much any of us can say.

the warranty goes with the system, not the owner.   the original receipt is not necessary for warranty claims.

tech support might be able to provide build information (ie: new, refurb, etc.) about the system once you have the MTM/SN in-hand.   they will not provide sales info, however.   that is confidential.

 

With other manufacturers, the warranty has to be transferred by the original owner. Not sure about Lenovo.

Do you want to post the guy's eBay handle here? So we can see if he is really new to eBay. Maybe some of us can send him some questions to test him if he is selling other stuff.

 

OP: You bought it already on Ebay...there's nothing you can do before seeing it first-hand when it arrives.

 

Yes. And, according to OP, he is expecting to receive the package either today or tomorrow, so there really is little point in requesting further information from the seller at this point. The only advice we can give now is "wait and see".

 

in usa that is a fact, if you go to Brazil and China, sometimes they request the sales receipt to get warranty, China is a personal encounter, while the Brazil case is what happened to a colleague. I couldn't get warranty support in China, because i never had any sale receipts from Lenovo on any of my laptops, i only got a delivery notice and a remittance slip, non of which are accepted by Lenovo depot in China.

In addition, having a tax invoice also ensure that the Laptop was not stolen.

 

what does it matter.. u got it for 1200! haha
refurbished may have scratches or marks, won't seem perfectly new...
if u can tell the difference just return it,
ebay sellers usually give u 30 days after u recieved it.

 

I understand that getting a refurbished x301 with the specs which I won is a good price but still as a buyer you are bound to feel cheated if you were bidding for a new item and get a used one. I cannot return the laptop to the seller as in the return policy it was clearly mentioned No Returns Accepted.

 

Thank You Guys for all your feedback. I understand that as many have mentioned nothing can be done until and unless I receive the package in hand. Then I can decide whether it is New or not. I will see if I am able to post some photos of the outer Box of the laptop when I receive it. Rest assured I will keep you guys updated once I receive the package. I will also have a word with Lenovo Technical Support and provide them with machine type and serial number of the laptop and see if I am able to get some build information from them as suggested by erik.

 

Bra, you can check the box to see if any tape has been removed and replaced. Also on the box is a sticker with serial number which should match the unit.

BTW, like I said you need to be iNsAnE if something goes wrong. If he cheated you, as far as you are concerned you can return it + cost for time and energy wasted. Just tell him you will remove his face if don't get refund bra.

 

Thanks for the tip. But I would prefer firstly checking the package to confirm whether it is new or not. I will also keep in mind your check points. Do refurb and Brand New machines from Lenovo come in same boxes or is there a difference? I would prefer talking politely with the seller in case of doubts and trying to get the problem resolved first rather than jumping to conclusions and acting insane and threatening the seller. I think it would be better if I resort to the insane part as a last resort and not first.

 

they come in the exact same box with the exact same tape.

 

How the hell does a person know if he is getting a refurbished unit or a brand new one if he buys a lenovo laptop from someone other than Lenovo or some reputed stores. Does Lenovo keep track of the laptops refurbished by them by relabeling the 7 digit serial number by starting it with R.

ATTENTION

I also came across an alarming thing. Someone had mentioned that Lenovo changes the product number ending with CTO to CTR after refurbishing it. But to my shock I found a couple of 2777CTO machines which were refurbished and labeled as Manufacturing part number : 2777CTRR8AVADK and 2777CTRR8AVCEX in the Lenovo Outet. But when I entered the machine Type and serial number on the warranty Look up site

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=LOOK-WARNTY#sw

this is what I got

Warranty information

Type: Model: Serial number:
2777 CTO R8AVADK


Status: Expiration date: Location:
In warranty 2010-10-25 UNITED STATES

It means Lenovo does not change the model number of CTO machines to CTR on the Lenovo Warranty Look up site after refurbishing it but only changes the information on the Lenovo Outlet.

My query what Model No is mentioned on the outer boxes and the Lenovo Laptop of refurbished machines. Does it continue to remain CTO or changed to CTR. An unsuspecting person may purchase a refurbished CTO machine as Brand New if Lenovo does not change the Model to CTO. On top of that erik mentions that both new and refurbished systems come in similar boxes with similar seal.

I would like to know the answer from those people who have purchased CTR machines from Lenovo Outlet.

Is there no fooproof way of differentiating between a Brand New and Refurbished laptop from Lenovo as in case of Dell ?

Can someone identify on the basis of Battery Life cycles or through Bios ?

 

You have to ask Lenovo what refurbished actually means. It's my understanding the outlet machines are not refurbished in the sense that they were repaired ie part replaced. Just the buyer changed his or her mind and returned it but paid the restocking fee. Those machines have a warranty originally selected by the buyer and if one wishes to extend then has to purchase additional time, etc. Actually, one can get a great deal there but when the discounts are applied to a new one it becomes less competiive. It could very well be that the eBay person bought there and sold to you if as the other person said, the packaging and other info is the same. I didn't know the packaging is the same nor the lables the same. I think the best thing to do is to ask the seller for the original receipt. Lost it is not good enough because he can get another copy.

 

The battery can easily be replaced. There is a tool which shows how many hours and power ons the HDD has been through. I forgot the name of it at the moment.

 

vij96, next time don't buy anything unless in person. i think you put yourself through mental torture. relax. it is what it is?

 

Now that you mention it it has really been pretty rough three days so far. I really have gone through a lot of mental agony and believe it would have been better if I had bought directly through Lenovo or reputed seller by paying a couple of 100 dollars more but I would have had my peace of mind. Well what's done is done. I can't change back the time. I will wait for the package to arrive and check with Lenovo if they are able to verify it. If I see the laptop and it looks brand new to me and works fine then I would not bother disputing with the seller.

 

Bra, I hope its new and the seller is a good person. We all tend to think the worse of people but not everyone on eBay is a scammer. I do have to say that I did encounter someone claiming to sell "IBM" "Genuine" parts though. But lets give the seller in your case the benefit of the doubt first.

 

This is a self inflicted wound. At the end of the day it's just a notebook, a tool if you will, no more or less. A few hundred bucks isn't going to make much of a difference in my life one way or the other. There's no sense in getting worked up over it until you get it. Focus on what you can do.

Life is how you look at it. What's the worst case scenario? It's refurbished. You could look at it as a negative, but you could also look at it as an opportunity to squeeze some money out of the seller who probably doesn't want the notebook back or to be left negative feedback, provided everything else checks out. You'd be left with a great notebook at an even better price. If you can do that, you'll have a skill that will serve you well in life.

And maybe it's exactly what they say it is, a notebook bought from work with a deep discount. It doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility. If not, you have other options.

 

I remember warranty information for Lenovo Outlet machines are updated only after they have been sold through the outlet.

I think you are overreacting a bit. If the laptop you get is clearly not brand new, then file complaints through appropriate channels. If you receive a laptop that is completely indistinguishable from a brand new laptop, then for all practical purposes the laptop is brand new. What is the problem again?

 

One of the most worthy posts I've read. Yes, bra let it go. Wait until the thing arrives. Enjoy your holidays!

 

That's not true. In the old days there was a downloadable spreadsheet of all availaible with specs and warranty details. It was so long I had to sort it. I've not looked at the site in a long time but in the past people used to discuss the merits of each config an warranty duration and look for input from others before buying.

 

By the sentence "That's not true" you seem to be claiming that you can get correct warranty details through Lenovo warranty lookup for machines still listed in the Lenovo outlet store. I think you are wrong.

1. Warranty lookup provides details such as warranty expiration date
2. Lenovo Outlet provides 1-year warranty for refurbished machines
3. The warranty period starts when the machine is sold to a customer
4. The correct warranty expiration date depends on the sale date
5. A machine listed on the Outlet site has not been sold
6. There is no way to predict when a machine will be sold
7. Therefore warranty lookup cannot possibly have correct warranty information for machines still listed in the Outlet

But we are getting off topic.

 

Thanks for your support guys. The good news is I just received the package about 15 minutes back and the box looks pretty new and the seal looks like it has not been tampered with. The specs on the sticker stuck on the box match the specs mentioned by the seller. It looks like I was worked up for nothing. I have a pretty negative attitude in life. I always think about the worst case scenario. I need to relax in life and take it easy as zaz has mentioned.

The 2 main reasons for doubting the authenticity of sellers claim that the laptop is brand new were

1. The seller was new with no feedback and

2. I found it hard to believe after having won the auction that a brand New x301 with the specs which I got could be had for such a low price about $1200 as if you configure the x301 on the lenovo website with same specs it would cost you at least over $2000 after taxes.

I have yet to open the package. I will post some pictures of Box later in the evening. What is Packing List ? It was attached outside box. As of now everything looks good.

 

Voila!!

Any chance you might sell it for whatever reasons?