Have seen in the flesh "older" IBM laptops for the first time

Good day all,
just though I'd share my experience with you all today.

My parents laptop just crashed (needs a new hard-drive), so we took it to one of those places that fixes computers locally. I walked in, and they had a BIG Lenovo sign (implicating that they also fix Lenovos, Thinkpads, etc.). On display they had about 6-7 Thinkpad R50's, and several Thinkpad SL510's.
My first thoughts of the R50's keyboard was "mah". It was OK, but reading all the hype about the older IBM's keyboards compared to today's Lenovo generation keyboards, I guess I expected more.
My T61's NMB keyboard feels as good, if not better then both the R50's, and SL510. Now, unless the T50 had a better keyboard than the R series had, I was not that impressed.
The quality of the mouse buttons, track-pad, and "media" buttons were OK.
Since these computers were all used, and at least 5 years old I guess they were not bad to what a consumer laptop would look like at that age.

The SL510's build quality was actually better than I anticipated it would be. The keyboard felt great, hardly any flex. SUPER BIG, and THICK though. And the plastic defiantly was of a cheaper quality than the "T" series. The media buttons were definitely not designed like the typical Thinkpad's layout usually is. But what mainly got my attention was the newly designed trackpad. The new texture felt rather nice compared to the "flat" surface of the regualer track-pad on the older Thinkpads. Nice and wide track-pad as well.

All in all, I left glad that I FINALLY got a chance to see other Thinkpads "in the flesh" and not just in pictures. The ONLY other Thinkpads besides my own that I've ever used was a T60, and a T400.

Long live the Thinkpads !!

 

Yes, people have exaggerated the difference between Thinkpads of old and those of today. Fit and finish, and perhaps material is what has suffered in recent years for lower prices, but that is not an indication of laptop toughness.

 

Maybe... but the diff between moving from a T43 that my mother still uses today with no problems (just some new thermal paste) to a T61p was huge, and with my W700, it's weird cause the W700 feels just as good as my old T43, T43 just had a bit thicker plastics, but i'm impressed, especially considering the W700 is a massive 17"er.

 

I agree, people rag a little too much about the current thinkpads generation but it is mostly directed to the lack of innovation or poor screens, than physical build quality. And to be fair the R50 was IBM's budget laptop at the time, and the SL510 is a contemporary ultra budget system so its no shock that your t61 has a superior build .

Get your hands on something old school like a 600e and you will be impressed.

 

I still miss my t30.

 

why? i find it to be no different to the T4x other than been thicker and louder due to the P4 CPU.

 

I have an old T22 (circa 2004?) and a recently acquired T510 to compare. Much to my pleasant surprise, the T510 keyboard is every bit as solid feeling as the T22 - and that was a huge concern for me. On the other hand, the T510's chassis seems to be made from thinner plastic, as there is a lot more flex when using the palm rest. As a matter of fact, my T510 will make squeak noises and flex downward whenever the top of the right palm rest is touched, and that is a pretty big annoyance, since one of the reasons I chose Lenovo was for build quality. It would have great if they could have reinforced that area to prevent that. That being said, the T510 is much wider with a 15" screen (16:9) while the T22 is I believe a 13" screen (4:3), which just means it's more compact and naturally rigid. I hope Lenovo never compromises their T series - if in doubt they should just overbuild it. They can cheap out on their other lines if they feel they need to.

 

Gosh! This is getting to be a bit of a common refrain with Thinkpads isn't it?

 

This is what happens when people only buy products when they are on discounts, which forces the manufacturer and computer companies like Lenovo to find ways of cutting costs. Quality suffers as the result of endless pursuit of lower costs.

 

One reason that the newer laptops may feel cheaper than the old tanks is that those older models had thick plastic that made up the structure of the laptop. In the newer models, plastic on the palmrest (T43+), and screen (T61+) are just veneers that cover up the true structure -- the Magnesium rollcage.

The newer models may feel cheaper because of this when sitting on a desk, but when you carry the laptop by the front edge of the palmrest, you can tell the difference.

Some of the older models also had the rubbery (some have said "leather like") coating on the palm rest that the x301 currently has. That certainly adds to a feel of quality.

BTW: There was just as much griping about the "decline of keyboard quality" when the R50 came out as there is today. I think the reference standard predates the R50 by ~5 years. Those keyboard were fantastic, but exposure to dust (like you'll find in industrial environments) would render the key mechanisms inoperable because of the close tolerances on the internal parts. Today's design is, on the whole, better when properly executed (NMB keyboard on T40 for instance).

-darren

 

Interesting.
Very good and vaid points have been bought up on how the Thinkpads of "yesterday" did not have the roll cage built into the screen and base of the system that the current T series has today.
Also, when compared to the older laptops, I guess the R50 isn't realy that "old" considering as many have said, that the quality was REALLY good back in the 600e days.
I just wish I knew about the Thinkpads earlier. But, at that time I wouldn't have had $3,000+ to spend on a new machine eather (heck, I still don't today, so it's no difference lol).

Thank you all for the comments !
It's going to be interesting to see what will be new in the upcoming T series next year (T520, or whatever they will call it). I REALLY hope they do NOT "cheapen" the T series (by, lets say taking away the roll cage, or something to make it "lighter").
We shall see !

 

I think the T series should be the pinnacle of designing and engineering toughness, reliability and compatibility in a notebook, and I hope that Lenovo thinks that too. I don't believe my creaky right palmrest is an indication of a lack of robustness of the design, more an indication that the designers did not value the end user total experience as much as other factors. I know I paid a small premium for my T510 over other brands - for the same price I could have gotten perhaps a higher spec competitor notebook. However I was looking for the maximum trouble-free, solidly built notebook and the sentiment of most users seems to be that Lenovo has carried on the IBM tradition more or less. Now I was happy to pay the current small premium for Lenovo's reputation, however I wonder what I would have done if the premium was more on par with what it was five or six years ago. Maybe I would have gone for an HP. The market forces combined with Lenovo's intention of increasing volume/market penetration make for tough choices for the company I suppose. Bottom line, however is that I am satisfied and pleased with my T510.

 

I still use my Thinkpad R51 regularly. I upgraded the processor to a 2 GHz from a 1.6, and upped the memory to 2 GB from 512 MB. I prefer the keyboard to any of my other laptops for long term typing.

 

I would have to agree though with one caveat. Either in this discussion or elsewhere on NBR someone noted that Lenovo had raised the quality levels of the R series to the T series levels which put pressure on the T series. Which is also the reason - as this person speculated - led Lenovo to cut out the R series given that the R series was at a lower price point than the T series. Given this, I'd say that perhaps in many ways the best bang-for-the-buck would have been from an R series machine (and here I am specifically referring to the R400). I use one and I think it is built very well - despite the nagging problems I had in the past with creaking palmrests and a flexy keyboard both of which were changed to my satisfaction by Lenovo/IBM.

With the demise of the R series, I also think the T series is perhaps the best built machine in the non-ultra portable range of machines available today.

 

I agree. With Lenovo introducing the new "L" series Thinkpads, I think they are meant to replace the "SL" series. And the "SL" series was meant to replace the "R" series.
All very confusing, but in a way, it's not
I've never used an L series, but from what I gather it looks almost identical to the SL series.
Shame too, because I know MANY people who swear by thier "R" series Thinkpads on a daily basis, and most will NOT switch to the L/SL series because it's not built like the R was.

 

I have been using Thinkpads for more than 10 years now. When I pick my T61p up by the corner with the top open, I can feel it flex. I do not recall the older Thinkpads feeling like that.

I am also curios how well sealed they are now. I once had a flight attendant dump an entire diet coke on the keyboard of my T20. I put it in hibernate, turned it over and dumped out the diet coke and wiped it down and fired it back up. Never had a single issue with it.

 

older thinkpads? which older thinkpads are you talking about please be specific. Also, the T61p has an internal magnesium rollcage, it shouldn't flex if you carry it by the corner.

I don't recall the T60, T61p, T400, T500 flexing when carried in the corner. The T4x had a bit of flex when you hold them like that, hence why the detaching GPU and Southbridge problem came about, which was remedied through the use of internal magnesium rollcage.

 

I remember the roll cage being one of the features I liked when I ordered the T61p. It always bothered me that I could feel that little bit of flex picking it up with the top open. I had the display go out and they ended up swapping out the MB. I attributed it to picking it up by the corner one too many times.

I had a memory slot go bad on my T43p, I think that was from tossing it on an airplane seat and it hitting the seat buckle just right. I think that one had a bit more flex in it.

I really do not recall which Thinkpads we were using in the 90's. They were solidly built. We tried a few other brands on occasion, but always ended up with the Thinkpads. They always preformed and stood up to travel.

 

which T61p did you have? 15.4 inch? There should be zero flex, because they are not suppose to flex with the magnesium rollcage built into the base in addition to the CFRP bottom case.

The GPU problem you are describing is an manufacturing defect with Nvidia GPU, which affected the whole industry that used the particular GPU, even Macbook Pro had them.