Hard drive heats up on Y580.

Hi all- just thought I would let everyone know about the hard drive heat on the Y580. I am at idle now with a cooling pad and 76 Fahrenheit ambient, balanced energy management-hard drive comes in at 38 degrees Celsius.

Gaming it has gone up as much at 50 degrees Celsius, maybe a bit more. I will edit this post later today with some real gaming temps as this is off the top of my head.

The Y580 certainly has a hot hard drive compared to the Thinkpads!

Edit again- gaming COD temperature max of the hard drive was 53 degrees Celsius.
GPU max- 77 C.
CPU max- 77 C.
Temps with CPUID hardware monitor.


Edit: purchasing a hard drive caddy (10 or 20 bucks on ebay) and moving the drive to the optical disk drive spot pretty much solves this issue, I have a hard drive in the optical disk drive slot and it stays cool enough.

Second edit: for future readers of this thread- don't freak out and miss out on this laptop if you are thinking of purchasing it. The Y580 is a great laptop and all the Y580 owners posting on this thread really like their machines as far as I can tell.

 

Wow, 50C?! That's getting pretty close to the edge of the operating temperature range of 2.5" HDDs. Operating the HDD at that end will expedite your path towards a future RMA. Here's my post from another thread detailing the issue:

Thread on abnormally hot HDD temps associated with y580 (english): here

Now for my dilemma, go with the y580 and experience high HDD temps that go beyond the manufacturer's operating temps (typically ~55C), thus hastening the HDD's demise, or go with the hp dv6 and have an abnormally hot exterior coupled with crappy sound drivers? For all of the criticism leveled at hp's build quality and the exterior thermal readings of their pavilion units, they at least keep the internal HDD cool.

Even the recommended environmental temp of my SSD is 60C. @ lenovo engineers.

Here's a picture of the y580 mobo with the location where the HDD bakes...err lies outlined in red.

EDIT: An unverified Lenovo engineer discusses (Chinese) the HDD heat problem and apologizes.

 

Maybe one solution is to use thermal insulation tape on areas that border the CPU and GPU heatsinks?

 

I will certainly consider trying to thermally isolate the drive somehow... a solution is necessary here. If anyone has a proven solution for the problem please post it.

 

Are those isolated cases or is this something "normal"? I didn't get temps like that even on my little server where are three 3.5" HDD running all the time within small casing with not much cooling going on...

 

Will this prompt Lenovo to do a recall for Y580?

 

I think this is an engineering flaw. I doubt it will incite a recall, but perhaps they could do something to better isolate the drive from heat? Probably not, as ssri showed, the location of the hard drive will lead to higher than normal temps.

 

I don't think so. I think most people won't be getting this problem because they won't put so much load on cpu, gpu and hdd at the same time. Some will and they may have problems after. And for those who's notebooks will be damaged there's still warranty where they probably just change hdd with maybe some tweak to prevent for this to happen - I hope.

 

"A common misconception is that a colder hard drive will last longer than a hotter hard drive. The Google study seems to imply the reverse—"lower temperatures are associated with higher failure rates". Hard drives with S.M.A.R.T.-reported average temperatures below 27*°C (80.6*°F) had higher failure rates than hard drives with the highest reported average temperature of 50*°C (122*°F), failure rates at least twice as high as the optimum S.M.A.R.T.-reported temperature range of 36*°C (96.8*°F) to 47*°C (116.6*°F).[87]"




the original google study is here for your convenience

http://static.usenix.org/event/fast0...o/pinheiro.pdf

there is a chart that associates the failure rate (figure 4) to the temp from 10 to 50 +. I am sure they are not the idle temp.

 

This is interesting pepper... it certainly goes against the common conception that a cooler drive is better. Maybe the hot hot hard drive is a Y580 feature!

The link isn't working, I wonder what that article has to say about ssd drives?

 

Mine gets pretty hot under normal use..It's actually uncomfortable on my lap.

 

Which I stated earlier is within the operating tolerances of HDD. The question here is the reliability of drives when the operating environment exceeds those of the manufacturer specifications. Also stated in my earlier post, the variability of the AFR data points in the figure you cite means that no firm conclusions can be made at temps of 50C. Either the methodology used in the study was inadequate or they did not have enough n to reach statistical significance.

 

I clicked it before it was changed, so here you go: link

 

I don't know what the big fuss is about. The hard drive of my m11x would get pretty hot basically every day and it's close to 3 years old with absolutely no problems. Besides, hard drives are cheap - if it fails just buy a new one. It's a sub $1000 laptop, what exactly are you expecting?

 

Your comments are very trolly, fallte. Why post if you are not going to contribute to the conversation?

 

Well I wouldn't say trolly. I just think people are expecting a little bit too much from a cheap laptop with the same components as much more expensive laptops which are more expensive because they have better cooling etc. For what it's worth my y580 is has been pretty amazing so far

 

Well said, fallte- I think you are right. My Y580 rocks, the temp is just a little concerning. I think this issue might be more important for people who put SSD hard drives in their computer and the warranty won't cover them.


From the article pepper found about figure 4:

"In fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower
temperatures are associated with higher failure rates.
Only at very high temperatures is there a slight reversal
of this trend."

The failure rates started to escalate at average temps above 45 degrees on the graph- I doubt I will AVERAGE temps that high. Right now, just surfing and such- the hard drive is 39 degrees Celsius. Again, I wonder how the temps would apply to SSD hard drive failures/longevity- this article is about mechanical drives...

 

What I can tell you for sure that the hard drive in the m11x would hit 44-50 degrees on a regular basis, especially when I OCed the GPU and it's perfectly fine. And the m11x actually uses passive cooling for like 70% of the time. I have't checked the temps in the y580 but if what you are saying is true it might have been the reason why they chose a 5400rpm drive over a 7500rpm one. Also I don't know where you are buying ssds from but mine have a 3 year warranty separate from the computer so I am not exactly worried.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about this particular situation. If ssd would fail because of heat from Y580 then warranty could not cover this - theoretically it's not their fault that it was mounted in unsuitable place.

 

You can always leave Lenovo's HDD where it is and i think laptop warranty will cover HDD failure. If you want SSD you can always get mSATA one, which port position is better.
Personally i hope my cooler pad will help somehow with this problem.

 

sorry for the mess-up. The link is here

http://static.usenix.org/event/fast07/tech/full_papers/pinheiro/pinheiro.pdf

On the other hand, high temp on CPU is more problematic and will force the system to shut down. In fact, in my work I have seen many instances of shutdown because of overheating.

 

Im not to worried. I played 6 hours of SC2 on ultra last night and it never got above 74C. THis did include some nexus wars and fastest map possiblewhich completely destroyed everyones comp

EDIT: this is the CPU. GPU never broke 65C

 

Is the brand of the hdd a contributing factor? I think Y580 uses the Samsung Momentus based on the Chinese link.

 

If I were to get a y580 I would replace the harddrive with an SSD and add an Msata for data. Is it correct that the primary HDD slot is sata III and the msata slot is sata II?

 

Yes. That is a major contributor factor according to the Google study, but google won't say which brand is more failure-prone for obvious reasons.

 

Seagate makes the Momentus brand.

Anyway, what I'm going to do is replace the optical drive with a caddy and have the HDD in that... leave the real HDD bay empty. Maybe add a MSATA SSD.

 

I was planning on doing this also, min2209. I like having an extra drive though, my plan was to have system drive in normal spot, then extra backup drive in the caddy.

Is the optical drive caddy on the Y580 sata III or sata II? This would be important if someone were putting a SSD in the optical drive space to cool things down, unimportant for a mechanical drive.

Also, I can confirm my Y580 came with a *correction* SAMSUNG momentus!

 

I put the 1TB HDD an optical drive caddy and I'm getting SATA II 3Gb/s.

 

Thanks for that info ssri!

 

Sorry, maybe it is Seagate. I only browsed through the pictures.

 

Remember though that the 1TB drive ran at SATA II when in it was in the main HDD bay.

 

A bit off topic there guys, but where are you getting optical drive caddies? I really want one but can't seem to find one for this model.

 

I picked up mine from ebay. I found it using this query: 12.7mm sata to sata caddy. I bought it for ~$12 from a reseller in NYC. There are ones for ~$10, but they ship from HK and take about 2-3weeks to arrive.

 

Hello all I am new to the forum


Is it possible to add another hard drive? Is there an option to buy an expansion slot on the y580? Looking to install an additional SSD


Edit:

After reading the last few post I guess people are using "caddy's'" ?

How do these work and what exactly do they do? :O

 

This tutorial on using one of these caddys to replace an optical disc drive explains it pretty well. The procedure to do the same for the Y580 is pretty close.

 

So anymore results on the heating issue? For all the people that have the Y580 i am not seeing much input on the heat issue or anything for that matter.

 

I'm waiting few days to check all I can. I tested my notebook with furmark and it was warm right above hdd. Graphic card had max 75C. I don't use any cooler stand or something. I don't think heat will be problem in average use.

 

What's the temp of the HDD though.

 

In my model, the HDD got up to 48C when it was sitting on my desk for two hours or so creating backup DVDs (Lenovo: why does your oneclick install program not support USB sticks?! ). After that, I put in an SSD in the main HDD bay and moved the HDD over to the ODD. HDD temps have been ~40C since then with normal activity. Then again, I haven't really taxed my GPU or CPU yet.

 

Just finished about 15 minutes of gaming-
SSD in HDD bay got to 51 C.
HDD in ODD bay (caddy) got to 34 C max.

For me, I guess I'll buy a decent laptop cooler and hope to bring that hard drive temp down a bit. Maybe the U3...

 

That's not ok!!! 50+ for your HDD is near the limit of what is recommended. Ssd should be around 30-40 degrees. This is a big issue for lenovo. I was seriously considering buying this but now my only options are the envy, MSI ge60, and the sager. Np91xx

 

Not to horrible but it was only 15 minutes of gaming so yeah a cooling pad seems appropriate. I have a 4.5 year old dell laptop I have been using (after my desktop died after 7 years) I was thinking about a new laptop for some gaming and all other desktop performance. I had thought that laptop cooling would have improved by now when i started researching for a new laptop a few weeks ago. Sadly that just doesnt seem so. It still looks like desktops are still the ultimate machine for pc gaming.

 

For SSDs, the limits are ~60C. Plus, 34C for the HDD in the ODD is ideal.

 

Still I wonder what and hour or two of gaming will do. Plus many people who buy this wont be modifying the unit.

 

I seem to be averaging about 48-53C after playing bf3 for about 50 min at 1080p.

 

Still this is an issue for the life span of the HDD or ssd. I like everything else about this build but the design error of putting the HDD slot between the two hottest components in the system might not be a great idea.

The owners thread is starting to talk about this product already begin "dumped" to retailers to sell off the stock.

I wonder if we can get an official response from Lenovo as to what they are going to do about this issue. My bet is they will say "the temps are in the window for the HDD provided". With a note saying the temps are at the top end of that window.

 

A google study found that the failure rate of HD at 40-50C is much lower than at 20-30 C. I posted a link to the study earlier in this thread.

 

That's not what the guy meant at all. He even had a followup where he said that wasn't what he meant.

 

That is true. Actually, I should retract what I stated earlier. Looking at my SMART data, it appears that my HDD reached a peak temp of 58C when it was in the HDD bay, without a cooler, when I was burning system recovery DVDs. It definitely runs cooler in the ODD.

 

Right, I asked him about it. It's "dumping" as in throwing off all your inventory for a cheaper price than dumping it all to get rid of it.