Going from 4GB of RAM to 8GB.

Will this improve my performance?

It only makes sense to me that it will.. After all, the more the better right?

 

What do you use your laptop for? If you don't use the RAM, it won't be of any benefit.

 

I wouldn't say that because Windows 7 uses the extra cache etc.

I open MULTIPLE programs at a time and never close them. I am always multi-tasking.

 

Dead on... Its quite the task to fill 4Gb much less 8, even with pagefile absent. Unless you are using some ultra RAM demanding software, 4Gb will be the biggest boost u may see.

The best move is to look at an ssd.

 

how about running virtual machine? i would imagine it would boost the performance of the host and VM with large RAM?

 

I already have an SSD LOL!

Also, from the time I hit the power on button, it takes 50 seconds to load up (very fast to me). This is normal right? This is including the BIOS screen etc.

 

this is the correct answer.

i have 16GB in my ThinkStation and the only way i notice any performance difference between 4GB, 8GB, 12GB, and 16GB is if i'm using apps that actually utilize that much memory.   in my case, i use between 8 and 12GB every day.   the extra 4GB is simply there in case of emergency.

those who need 8GB already know they need 8GB because they're constantly running into "out of memory" messages.   if you've never run out of 4GB then 8GB will be of zero benefit.   apps won't run faster, your system won't boot faster, and your geek status won't change one bit -- in fact, it might go down.

 

Well, I am getting them for $100 less then retail and I sold my 4GB of RAM. Why not buy them

It will only cost me $100 for 8GB of RAM!

Also, I use up LOT'S of my RAM.

 

Yes, having lots of RAM allows you to allocate the ideal amount for your guest OS on top of your host OS so they can run as smoothly as possible. I had a workstation with 8GB RAM using VMWare Workstation, my host operating system was Windows 7 Professional x64 while my guest OS are a mixture of Ubuntu Linux, Windows Vista, Windows XP and Windows Server. I typically allocate 2GB of RAM for each guest and speed wise they seem to run almost 1:1 without any performance penalties such as disk swapping. On a typical working day it's not unusual for me to use up 6GB out of 8GB RAM as I tend to multi-task a lot on not just on the host OS but the guest OS as well. So overall, yes it does help for Virtual Machine applications in my opinion.

 

Does anyone know how to not use a page-file. What are the benefits?

 

leave the paging file in service.   disabling it is unnecessary, especially with more RAM.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314482

 

If you have the money and want to get 8GB, then go for it. Whether or not you'll see a difference is another story. Although some people run without a page file, I still keep a small amount just in case.

 

Okay, so I have 8GB of RAM. How do I reduce the file, and to what size?

 

If I'm remembering correctly, it's usually not a good idea to turn off the swap file entirely in the newer Windows OS's like Win 7. But if you do want to, hit Windows Key + Pause to bring up System control panel, then on the left click Advanced system settings, go to the Advanced tab, click the top Settings button, then Advanced tab again, and then the Change button beside Virtual Memory. Un-chck the Auto option at the top, and choose No Paging file in the radio buttons.

Regarding the RAM upgrade: You may or may not see a bump in performance when multitasking (depending on what your MULTIPLE applications are and how you're using them). One thing that I can guarantee will SLOW down is hibernating, and waking up from hibernation. Why? Hibernating is writing out the contents of RAM to disk and then powering off, and the opposite process to resume. If you double your RAM, that's twice as much data to persist.

 

Holy cow while I writing that there was a bunch more replies. To adjust paging file size, follow the steps I listed above but instead of picking No paging file, choose Custom size and input your desired min and max sizes.

 

Do you recommend adjusting the page file. Also, I have 1GB free of the 4GB I currently have which is pretty tight. The reason I am doing the upgrade is because it won't be that expensive.

I usually have 10+ applications opened at the same time, and I rarely restart my computer. Also, I am guessing, once the 8GB is in my laptop, Windows will start caching more therefor using up the RAM for me.

 

How are you getting them for that cheap..?

 

Well, they are used.. But I found someone selling them.

Do viruses, spyware etc carry onto RAM? Is there anything I need to do to them before I put them in my machine.

 

With respect to paging file, I have not used it for over 2 years as I have 4Gb ram and have never once had a problem. Pagefile has always served the purpose of making you believe your system has more ram when it really doesn't. It was a killer on XP when you only had 1Gb ram and you wondered why there was always so much background disk activity.

I am a power user and, as a matter of fact, I am on another site and we are discussing, at present, the same thing. Somebody asked what happens what occurs when there is not enough RAM so I started a few programs to prove a point.

In the latter instance I started and edited 6 open reports on Acrobat, all separate instances. Each was between 6000-8000 pages and I also started 3 full feature movies. My RAM only dipped to 2.4Gb available and I had no problem working with all the open stuff.

Prior to that, I opened Minesweeper, Powerpoint, Publisher, Acrobat Pro, Word, Excel, Mozilla, Vuse, Advanced System care Pro, Crystal Disk Mark, Intel Toolbox and 4 copies of Google Chrome with 6 separate site tabs in each...and it still only dipped to 2220Gb still available.

So...I guess....try and use all of the RAM if you think you can.

My belief is simply that I want to use the valuable RAM I paid for, MS leaves a radio switch to shut off pagefile for a reason, and there is support that it does provide much less read/write activity on the ssd.

I don't believe any performance increase can be shown, however, although theoretical it would be an absolute as physical ram is still much faster than a pagefile.

JMHO and good luck in your decision.

 

Do you know if viruses/spyware carry onto RAM. I am buying them used and I don't know if there is anything I should worry about etc?



mod note: unnecessary quoting removed.   please read the posting etiquette sticky at the top of this forum.

 

I set my pagefile with a 256MB base and 8GB ceiling. This saves space on my SSD (it's almost always at 256MB) and I know because I use an SSD it can quickly expand when needed and the fragmentation of the file won't be a problem. Note, I would not recommend this on a system with an HDD as pagefile fragmentation can be a serious performance conern.

 

absolutely not.   contents of RAM last maybe two hours if that.   anything that was once written to the memory will be erased by the time you receive it.

 

Looking at the "Free" Physical Memory number in Task Manager is a bit misleading. The *actual* amount available to applications is the "Available" number. The difference between the two is the amount of memory Windows is currently using for cache. If applications start demanding more memory, Windows will reclaim some of the memory being used for caching and give it to your apps.

I have 8 gigs of RAM. At the moment, I'm not doing a lot of multitasking, but I do have several FireFox windows open wtih may tabs in each, and FireFox is using about 615MB of ram (I really need to restart FireFox--it's definitely a memory leaker). Right now my "Free" memory is about 3,700 MB and my "Available" is about 5,800 MB,

 

If you disable the page file on a Windows system, you prevent the memory manager from paging out applications to disk that are minimized (if you minimize an application and have a page file, that applications is put in line to be paged out to disk). This enables you to switch between all your open applications instantaneous.

If you still want to have a page file but want to prevent the Windows Memory Manager to prioritize to paging out your minimized applications, you simply have to stop minimizing applications and switch between them using Alt-Tab.

 

I let the 8GB go.. Was too expensive..

Is Kingston HyperX better then G.Skill 4 latency?

 

Just look at the specs. RAM is just RAM, as long as the specifications (speed, CAS latency, etc) are identical, they're identical. Even a small difference in CAS latency is pretty much unnoticeable except in benchmarks, so I wouldn't concern yourself with your RAM all too much. 4GB is plenty, and your RAM is far from the performance bottleneck anyway.

 

Your right. Midnight Sun.

One of the questions here is on real (actual) memory and virtual memory. The OP is asking the question of whether or not he needs more real or physical memory.

Renee

 

Unused memory is wasted memory. As stated before, even if you're multitasking a "lot", unless you're hitting low memory errors, you probably don't need more than 4GB.

 

Having more RAM will actually make the machine slower in doing one thing - hibernating. When you hibernate your machine, it copies everything on the memory to the hard drive. The more memory you have the longer this process takes. If you don't need that much memory, and you use hibernation often, don't get 8GB RAM (let alone the cost factor, they are expensive).

 

No... RAM is volatile, meaning it requires constant power to store any kind of information, once there is no power source, all memory is lost forever, so no.

 

FYI I already explained that back on page 2

Cheers!

 

If you have to ask, don't change the settings.

If you have to ask, don't change the settings.

If you have to ask, don't change the settings.

All programs use "virtual memory", this is not the same thing as using the pagefile. Even if a program is 100% in RAM, it is still using virtual memory. The purpose of virtual memory is to give each program its own memory address space, and this has nothing to do with the pagefile.

Sometimes the pagefile is used to store pages of memory that are not active at the moment, and this is what you want. You don't want a bunch of unused junk using up the fast expensive RAM when it can be put to better use doing something else. The only valid argument I can see for disabling the pagefile is if you have an SSD and are concerned about the write cycles.

Basically, if you're not an OS engineer who had a hand in designing the Windows memory subsystem (or get some advice directly from such a person), then don't touch the settings. Anything else you hear about it on teh internets is repeated rumors and hearsay.

 

Are you asking or telling?


Regarding the page file, I think you should take Orev's advise. He's technically skilled (not just a skilled Windows user) and knows what he is talking about.

 

K... I am going to jump in the fire here and you all know where I stand on Pagefile. Its a waste if you have the memory.

So...anyone... Does anyone know of an instance where something has happened to someone as a result for NOT using a pagefile? Don't use the addage of data loss on a used drive after turning it off because thats a given.

Lets start with a clean install with 4Gb and NOT use Pagefile. Can someone please tell me what I am limited to?

I ask because I have been without a pagefile for some years now. I have never used it. My RAM is happy and so are my programs. I commonly work on 6-8000 page documents, listen to music simultaneously, play on the internet, email and...it wouldn't be unusual to be working on a report for someone who may have asked for some help.

Never a problem...never slowing....not once.....

Ok...just now.... popped 3 movies on...one in VLC, one in Movie player classic and one in media player...all running fine with an Adobe 8000 page doc open while I sit here typing away AND Advance System care is Cleaning my system...

Not a prob.... Its kind of like putting a car tire on a large motorcycle which I have on mine and would never go back. So many people who have never tried it will stand up and yell that you shouldn't do that but, wait, all the people who have done it will never go back. Fact of life...don't believe me??? Heres a pik just before I did a 5500 mile treck through the US last summer.



Now Orev we have been around a long time and I respect all of your knowledge and experience...but... have we any real examples of anything that has happened ever?

Or maybe...just maybe...Microsoft had a reason for putting the radio button where it is to allow us to turn off pagefile....

Go ahead...got the flack vest on here... Hit me with all of the REAL examples...maybe link one or two. I am willing to listen and change my view...

 

no gixxer would be complete without a car tire.

 

Well actually...thats my VTX. This is my Gixxer... ahhh heck...heres all 3...early pik...now back to the thread...

 

a gsx with a car tire would be a sight to see.

 

Obviously there's a lot of lure surrounding this topic. In situations like this, I apply the "Coke vs Pepsi Rule": if any one option were clearly superior to the other, then it would be obvious, but since there's no clear winner, it probably doesn't matter. However, I do know that virtual memory systems (both Windows and Linux, probably OSX too) are designed to be backed by a pagefile. These 2 facts combine should lead a person to use the setting that the system was designed for, which is why I say to use a pagefile. Also, without a pagefile you can't retrieve crash dumps which greatly help with troubleshooting crashes.

In a double-blind test on identical hardware, with one system with a pagefile and another without it, I'm not sure anyone could tell the difference. I have not done such a test - that's just a guess - but the placebo effect is very powerful. Also, one might change this setting when they first set up a new system and will feel that the system is faster, when in reality it's the newness that makes it faster.

The problem with disabling it, and with most tweaks in general, is that the user thinks they know better than the guys who designed the OS, but mostly do not. People go around applying tweaks all over the place, and then post about how their computer or OS sucks because it crashes all the time.

If you actually know that to troubleshoot a problem you first need to undo these tweaks, then sure, go for it. However, the trouble with saying that is that everyone wants to do the super secret thing the gurus are doing, and you wind up with a bunch of people who fight with you that they know what they are doing because they want to think they are better than they are.

My position, as one of the gurus, is to say that your default settings are fine, and if I expect you to live with those settings, so will I. Microsoft doesn't intentionally pick settings to slow down the system, regardless of what you might think of them, and actually those settings have a logical reason for being set the way they are.

So, if you're not having problems, feel free to disable it. But, don't tell anyone else to do it, because if they're asking, they probably can't handle it.

 

Well actually, I wouldn't blame Microsoft at all. System manufacturers though do apply registry settings that would best suit their group of systems as a whole. They then also add on trialware and bloatware which we don't need to get into.

We don't really need the 'tweak' debate so I would like to stay with the pagefile specifically. I agree wholeheartedly that one cannot notice a difference between a system with pagefile on or pagefile off. This is ALOT different than the times of XP and low physical memory when we could feel the system heat up in our hands with all the background pagefile/virtual memory use.

As I said, I am not trying to get into the tweak debate but, shutting down the pagefile on the ssd accomplishes two very important things. For one, it definitely reduces the total number or read/writes on the system (not really important to me) but the other is it regains 3.5Gb of valuable ssd storage which can be valuable to many.

To me, at the end of the day, I am still looking for the key reasons not to shut it down with real life situations that have occurred. I can't find any and I have looked myself. It just seems we are always saddled with the 'because you are not supposed to" response.

 

All this talk about pagefiles... if your PC had 512MB RAM you wouldn't be talking about turning it off.

With 4GB or 8GB, sure, most users can probably turn it off without noticing it, but why? Let Windows do what it does best. Having newbie users tweak settings on their computer can be a dangerous thing.

Back on the 8GB question - you''l know if you need it. You're probably a power user running several VMs or massive databases. Or you just have too much money.

For most users 4GB is optimal for the time being.

 

As I stated previously, there is exists at least one very tangible difference between systems with and without pagefiles (assuming you have a sufficient amount of RAM).

On systems without pagefiles, you will experience instantaneous switching between applications even if you are switching to an application that was minimized e.g. yesterday.

On systems with a pagefile, having an application minimized for a long time, increases the probability that portions of it (or the whole application) being paged out to disk. If you then click on that application, you will hear the HDD churn and experience a freeze until the application has been brought back from disk into RAM.

 

Good point..so really what we are seeing is the use of the physical ram do you think?