Future Thinkpad Design

It seems more and more that Lenovo is ditching a lot of the original design traits of the IBM Thinkpads... the original keyboard, having no trackpad, matte screens, thinklight, etc. etc.

Whether you like what Lenovo is doing, or hate what Lenovo is doing, what do you think? Do you think Lenovo is going to "modernize" the complete Thinkpad lineup with the new additions they seem to be making?

 

I don't know. But I love the Thinkpad design. One thing I'm wondering, though, is if they will end up moving over to a chiclet style keyboard. That would be a huge disappointment for me and I'm sure for a lot of people out there as well.

I like the keyboards that they use but if they switch to a chiclet one I won't be buying another Thinkpad.

 

Which "original keyboard" design? The 700-series design? The 600 series design? The T3x/T4x design? The T6x/T400/T500 design?

And that "classic" ThinkLight -- that wasn't added until 1998, and wasn't standard across the lines until much later.

You know why the early ThinkPads didn't have a touchpad? Because in the early 90s, virtually nothing did. Look at some other laptops from that era: you'll find a few pointing sticks, some trackballs, but very few touch pads. IBM was a bit late to the party, but eventually they added them to the T and R series.

The matte screen is a fair point, but I doubt that will go away in all of their business-oriented lines.

As far as the chiclet keyboard is concerned, bring it on. Look, I love a lot of the earlier designs, but I don't like them because they're older designs -- I like them because they're enjoyable to type on. And you know what? So is the recent ThinkPad chiclet design. My dislike of "chiclet keyboards" stems from my dislike of ultra-short-throw keyboards with flat key caps. The ThinkPad chiclet keyboards thus far have had a fair bit of travel and rounded key caps that feel quite like the T60-series tops, hence I have no problem with them.

Regarding the recent style changes... well... styles change. The recently-previewed T430u looks quite attractive by contemporary standards while still featuring the reserved lines and professional coloring of its predecessors. That same statement could be used to describe most ThinkPads made.

I don't like ThinkPads primarily because they adhere to some "classic" design traits. I like them because they're designed for business users, because they use consistent, Linux/BSD-friendly hardware, and because they're generally well-engineered and well-designed. I've seen nothing to indicate that Lenovo's Think group won't continue to produce laptops that fit that description.

 

I wish they kept with _60/61 generation, 4:3 or 16:10, 7 row keyboard, lid latch, LCD roll cage, ThinkLight, but just with modern specs. I hate the new keyboards/palmrest feel. And I can feel that the LCD top portion is less sound than before, probably due to the elimination of the roll cage.

 

I agree with the matte screen comment. As for the chiclet keyboards, I am mixed on that. Although the X1 keyboard had a nice feel to it (though I didn't have extensive time with it), I still prefer my x220's keyboard. Regardless, both are much nicer than my previous MBP keyboards.

 

Who says chiclet keyboards are better to type on? The thinkpad chiclets may be better than other brands' chiclets. But they don't compare to traditional keypoards in terms of firmness and solid motion/feedback when you push down (they're mushy), travel (they don't have the right amount, most are too shallow and you feel like your tapping instead of typing), and that retarded spacing between them. The only reason why other brands picked them up, is to follow the trend. Unless the chiclet provides better functionality (which it clearly doesn't - at best it's equal), then lenovo's pursuit of them is for the same reasons - for trends and to keep the looks up to date. There's nothing wrong with the current keyboard. It's not like it's ancient and hasn't been altered over the years. Also, it has had literally 100's of hours of research put in to it. To pursue a feature for the sake of form over function is not true to the ThinkPad brand and what is has stood for. I could care less if my laptop looks as "up to date" as some MSI value series. That's not why I bought a thinkpad..

If they want to use it, fine. But why tarnish ThinkPad principles of function over form. Keep it on a different model line.

As for that new T430u, we already know what's not ThinkPad about it from the outside, who knows what it will look like when dissected on a review. I'm not against change. They threw out the LCD rollcage, and a lot of people were upset at that. But LED backlit monitors are thinner, and the plastic was replaced with CFRP and bowed out. It's a good, functional alternative. They put holes in our keyboard backplate. A lot of people were pissed, but I think the retention mechanism of placing a slightly curved keyboard under tension keeps it pretty rigid, and it's easy to fix if it's not perfect. Fine. They also stripped a lot of the status lights over the years. Good. We need the essential ones but I didn't care for the array of lights beneath the monitor - a lot of it was providing redundant info that the systray or common sense provided and it was distracting at times. But some changes, like the move away from the clamshell bezels, integrated buttons on the X220 touchpad, latch-less lids, you know those are pushed by design elements and not functional purposes and I hate that.

 

Not saying that they are better to type on. All I am saying is that with my brief experience with the X1 keyboard that it actually feels pretty nice. Reviews of the X1 actually talk about the keyboard, and most reviews that I've read rave about it.

 

That's cool if you or anyone else prefers chiclets, I mean keyboard 'superiority' for lack of a better word can't be quantified. Those were just reasons why I think the usual TP keyboard style is better. Keyboard preference will always be subjective and an opinion, but I just think that since they have a proven design for the ThinkPad line, they should leave well enough alone. Why fix if it if it's not broken right?

 

Because then there would never be improvement. What you see between, say, the T4x generation and the T6x/Tx00 generation is improvement through trying different changes, ie the development of an arched lid to support more weight, the development of an internal "roll cage."

Not saying that I like all the changes being made, but I do understand why some experimentation is necessary even in the traditionalist Thinkpad line. I'd like to see Lenovo try out a 7-row island-style keyboard!

 

I agree the models shouldn't remain static. But they've made improvements and changes over the years. The keyboard has undergone lots of changes. No more grey keys, the bigger esc and del keys, the reshaping of the trackpoint buttons, the media buttons have changed, the spacing between the keys. And weather they've been for better or for worse, I think the incremental ones are generally the more accepted among users in the end. Or easier to swallow at least. I just think the jump to a 6 row chiclet is too big, and without reason.

 

Also Lenovo first added the Windows key where it is today!

Personally I think the _60/61 series for the T/Z/R was perfect. The 4:3 x series was kinda skewed as the Backspace is like a letter sized key, and I don't deal well with changes like that. The 16:10 revision for the x series is good. Good feedback, that familiar feel, the click of the keyboards as you are typing away. Such a shame that the _X10 series was not the same, I hated my T410s keyboard, but the X201 keyboard was instantly familiar.

 

Who says they're worse?

I know it's not a precise science, but come on...

The recent ThinkPad chiclet designs are scissor-switch assemblies (same as their predecessors) with a comparable amount of travel and a similar activation energy. Don't believe me? Get a keyboard from each generation and measure it yourself.

The biggest difference is the keycap style -- most of the rest is just subjective. "Feels mushy" has been a complaint leveled against pretty much every keyboard without full mechanical switches; it's the keyboard equivalent of the "audiophiles" talking about how certain speakers "sound warmer".

Oh, and the grey keys were introduced quite late in the ThinkPad's life, and removed shortly later. It's not like Lenovo removed a long-standing feature of the line.

I like some of the early keyboard designs quite a bit, and I'll miss having a dedicated Print Screen/Scroll Lock/Pause/Break row -- but I recognize that I'm way in the minority for actually using those keys.

It may provide an improvement. If Lenovo can use a chiclet keyboard design and get a more consistent typing feel (compared to the past issues with keyboard support/flex/etc.) or a higher manufacturing yield, isn't that an improvement?

IBM followed industry trends to some extent too. Compare the early 90s ThinkPads with ones from the early 00s. Styles change, and any vendor that wants to keep their market share has to at least acknowledge that in their product lineup.

 

still waiting for a white Thinkpad

 

As long as the build quality and durability remain, I'm pretty open to experimentation in the thinkpad line. I for one would love to have a 7-row chiclet keyboard on my next thinkpad, with backlighting.

Would also like to see the Thinkpad line include a touchpad similar to Apple's clickpad. With much more effective two finger scrolling than on their current touchpads.

I'd also like to see future Thinkpads offer a choice of a modest discrete GPU. I'm sure in the future Ivy Bridge processors and whatnot will have better integrated graphics, but I still would like the choice of a manually switching dGPU.

 

You can have a ThinkPad in any colour you want as long as it is black (or heatwave red for the lid for the Edge).

 

2012 Lenovo lineup
Lenovo unveils 2012 line up of notebooks, ultrabook is the magic word - Neowin.net

 

1. Chiclet keyboards are thinner apparently. Thus usage on the X1 and T430u. I wouldn't mind seeing a chiclet on an X230 or T430 as long as it had all 7 rows.
2. I don't see how they can feel much different. Especially mushy and travel complaints. Last time I checked, the chiclet keyboards except the X100e keyboards have the same travel and switch design as the traditional Thinkpad keyboards.
3. I think a lot of review sites said the X1 keyboard was superior to the standard Thinkpad keyboards. I would prefer to type on an X1 than my X220 personally, if only it had 7 rows instead of 6.

btw, you can order the X100e/X120e in white if you buy large quantities. In theory the X130e comes in whatever color you like, provided large quantities (school districts). Otherwise Thinkpads are black and sometimes red.

 

I really like the looks/specs of that Thinkpad Edge S430. Too bad it probably won't be released in the U.S.

 

We have the E420s in the US. The S430s seems to be replacing the E420s, thus I think we should see it over here.

 

im only a novice with limited thinkpad experience (z61t + x1) - but what bothers me the most about lenovo is that they don't seem to be able to get the "basics" right when they are trying to "innovate".

I consider battery life a basic (I assume everyone would?) and I honestly really like my X1 for its build quality/keyboard/speakers (+ i wanted an aesthetic change from my old thinkpad)- but why should I only get 3 hours of battery life on a machine they are charging $1200+ for, rapid charge or not (slice aside, as it costs extra)? It just seems so strange to me, since they seemed to expend so much effort on its design. I have not been able to stray from thinkpad b/c of keyboard feel- but that is the only reason I am still a customer (hostage really)- and im bitter about it.

however, I suppose I am not their target customer anyway? (student, not corporate type)

 

If battery life was important, why didn't you buy a laptop that got good battery life? I would point the finger at yourself for buying a $1,200 laptop that didn't meet your standards.

 

Paid $800, had most of the features I wanted vs other models- had to compromise somewhere, so will get the slice

The point I wanted to make was that I should not have had to compromise on something so basic to get the rest- the "innovations"- why design it that way? (the slice isn't exactly cheap- retails for more than the extended batteries on other models) I feel that sometimes the thinkpad brand gets away with murder b/c of the few things they do well- but again, i understand that i am not the target customer.

 

That is one of the weaknesses of the X1, since it was designed with light weight and thinness as the primary goals. It's tough/impossible to design a "perfect" machine with long battery life and light weight, because the former calls for a larger battery while the latter necessitates a lighter battery. The X220 would've been a more suitable fit, as battery life is not sacrificed in favor of lighter weight/thinness.

 

You know what I retract my earlier statement. I would welcome a chiclet style keyboard to the T series if it's anything like the X1's. I initally thought it would be like my Macbook Pro's in that it isn't a replaceable part. Now that I know it IS a replaceable keyboard in much the same way as the current T series, I think it'd be a nice addition. Especially for the backlight while still retaining the spill resistance. Now that's a step forward in my opinion compared to the Thinklight and is in no way form over function.

 

Latitude 13 does it, just a crappy 30 WHr 6 cell battery. Otherwise it had thin/light and cheap. Barely hit 3-4 hours with it.

I think for most people X220 does it..

 

Eh, personally I can't stand the chiclet-style keyboards. I have one on my Asus G73, and the feel of the keycaps is downright awful. I feel like there is far too much space between the keys, and always end up mistyping. I use it for gaming. If I'm doing something which requires more than a minimal amount of typing(writing, learning code, email, chatting with friends, this forum post) I reach for either of my ThinkPads. I'd rather see the classic keyboard kept in at least the mainstream T, W, and X-series.

 

Almost all backlit keyboards have a mushy feel, Latitudes are no different. My Alienware has probably the worst keyboard for typing on, hence I have to hook up my Logitech G11 to get any kind of typing done.

 

That is very true. It's why my preferred keyboards are on my non-backlit ThinkPads, and my 1986-vintage Model M. If the Ivy Bridge ThinkPads are going to feature backlit keyboards versus the Thinklight, then I'll pick up a loaded W520 and call it good.

 

The switch to 16:9 screens has already pissed me off. I won't be buying thinkpads anymore if they switch to chiclet keyboards, glossy screens, or whatever other gimmick they can think of.

Current or even older generation thinkpads are powerful enough for me - after all I don't game on a laptop. Will be turning to second-hand models/ unused older models if the new specs of the T430u and whatever that comes after it are confirmed.

 

Well I think the point that has been over-killed quite thoroughly is the T430u is not a real ThinkPad. The traditional ThinkPad has not been significant altered minus the aspect ratio change, but honestly think about how much a new ThinkPad costs now vs when IBM had the reigns. Lenovo has dropped it to where an average joe schmoe can buy the ultimate business machine..

 

I think T430u is a just a variation of the T430, hence the u at the end. So I suppose Lenovo will still bring out a proper T430.

 

Lenovo backlit keyboards are amazingly good. They spent a lot of effort solving the problem with mushiness and backlit keyboards since the X1 keyboard is great.

Also. I don't think the mainstream Thinkpads will get the X1 treatment. The T430, T530, X230, and W530 are probably going to be very much traditional Thinkpads.

 

If they did that, I would only resort to buying last generation ThinkPads or jump back to last generation Latitude.

 

whaaaa Lenovo releases so many laptops and a giant TV at the CES, no wonder they call themselves the fastest growing PC maker.

 

I should nope not.

As long as they don't spread themselves too thin.

 

Too late for that now.

 

Too late, they've already released ultrabooks. haha

 

?

You do realize that Lenovo is a huge company, right? It's not like we're talking some small 100-person business here...

I'd hardly call their recent showing "spreading themselves too thin", especially when you consider how many of their divisions were represented at CES.

 

T430u, where U stands for Ultrabook. Given that the S variation of the T4x0 bears no resemblence to the T4x0 machines, i guess the next T430 shouldn't be all that similar to the U (other than the keyboard?).

 

My suspicion is that some aspects of the T430u mechanical are designed to accommodate components shared with the other "ultrabook"-esque machines that Lenovo's bringing or planning on bringing to market, just as they've done in the past. The normal T series may have some styling similarities, but I doubt it's going to have much component overlap (as the T430u is pretty clearly designed with thinness as a top priority).

If that's the case, then lead_org is right on the money that there likely won't be much T430u->T430 overlap. I'd also bet that there won't be *that* much stylistic overlap either, as I don't think that Lenovo's going to get rid of the traditional keycaps this go-around, nor will they get rid of the clamshell lid design on machines for which thinness isn't very important.

Still, these are just predictions, so healthy skepticism towards anything I've just written is advised. erik, care to chime in and point out where I'm wrong? (Assuming you can do so without NDA/embargo violation.)

 

Think about how T400s was the harbinger of kb for the rest of ThinkPads, then think about X1's kb.

 

I like, no, I LOVE my T400s keyboard but the change from the T400>s keyboard was still relatively minor when compared to this jump from original style to 6 row chiclet.

 

Well the X1 didn't introduce that keyboard style... That would be the X100e and early Edge units.

And personally I always figured that the reason that the T400s introduced the new keyboard style when it did was that it was released in between T-series refreshes, not because Lenovo used non-mainstream models to introduce new features.

 

i am trying to throw you a hint.

 

Ugh I hated my T410s keyboard, and I think T400s used the same style. The feel is different, and it has like that gloss on it that is different.

Why couldn't Lenovo just stick with _60/61 series keyboards, they were the best, and why change the best...that's the whole point of ThinkPad.

 

Indeed, I wouldn't say it was a halo/flagship model like the X30x, but it was definitely their model to show off their engineering and new features. It's the father of current thinkpad design, and it was made to showcase it.

 

I think the T4x keyboards were better, but that's me.

 

Oh.

Yeah, I'm apparently not great at reading into posts...

I use a T4x keyboard daily (my workstation at home currently uses a ThinkPad desktop keyboard), as well as a T6x series keyboard on my T61. I'm undecided. The T4x feels a lot lighter, and is pretty low-stress to type on, but the T61 keyboard has a much firmer feel and a little less flex. I guess at the end of the day I prefer the T4x design because of the multi-colored key caps.

 

The NMB keyboards don't have that smooth finish. I know what you're talking about and it's extremely annoying. My original NMB broke and I got a Chicony warranty eplacement. It's identical unlike older styles in typing action, but the smoother finish bothers me greatly even when brand new and it's becoming shiny smooth in a matter of months. I'd pay the $75 for a new NMB if I could find one. Lenovo hasn't had stock in months.

 

QQ .