Found an Ideapad 720 15" (not Yoga or Legion)

I accidentally found an interesting Lenovo notebook, which is hardly mentioned anywhere:

Ideapad 720 15"
IPS display
CPU: i5-7200U
GPU: 4gb AMD RX560

German website http://www3.lenovo.com/at/de/laptops/ideapad/700-series/Lenovo-IdeaPad-720-15IKB/p/88IP7000910



Based on the description and looking at the photos, following thoughts came to my mind:

Nice design factor. Small footprint (like the Yoga 720). It's made of metal, therefore probably robust. It's without convertible/2-in-1 features (which I actually don't need at all). I really like that it has plenty of ports, especially an ethernet port which is often removed nowadays. I hate dongles. The keyboard seems also great (similar to the Legion keyboard, which I could test once).

However what I dislike about it, is the processor. They should put in at least a i5-8550U. I also dislike having an AMD gpu here. Even a 2gb 1050gtx performs better than a 4gb rx560. Furthemore all tests have shown that the rx560 draws considerably more power than any gtx1050... almost as much as a gtx1060. Who in the right mind pairs an undervolted energy saving CPU with a power leecher like the rx560??? And not only that, but a gtx1050 has approximately 10 degrees less in most benchmarks. This is just dumb...

I hope they gonna change that, because it's an interesing rig nevertheless...

 

Actually, the RX 560 performs exactly the same as the 1050. Don't confuse it with the 460 since the 560 has more shaders and compute units. Additionally, due to the 14nm node used, a small downclock goes a long way. Just look at the RX 580 in the GL702ZC. The desktop card uses 180W @ 1400MHz. The mobile card uses 80W @ 1150MHz.

On a side note, comparing thermals with different coolers is somewhat pointless, especially if you are comparing desktop cards to mobile cards. Look at the 1060 desktop - that's a 120-140W GPU and in laptops it's only 80-100W depending on the configuration because it also comes with a downclock.

 

It's kinda double-edged... the pattern seems to be that in DX11 titles it's 5-10 fps less, in DX12 titles it's equal and sometimes surpasses the gtx1050. Overall it still looks like that the gtx is more "stable" throughout both DX versions..

About the shaders: the desktop rx460 has 896 shaders and the rx560 has 1024 shaders. However, based on the information of Notebookcheck, the laptop version of the rx560 has only 896 shaders, so it just matches the rx460 desktop version. Though not sure if the information is outdated...

About the thermals and power usage... you got a point here. It's about time for an official review about the mobile version of the rx560...

 

Yeah, the AMD DX11 performance is largely limited by driver overhead, though with DX12 we do see the full potential of these chips. I really hope the industry moves forward with DX12 because it's just a better API than DX11 both in terms of GPU and CPU usage.

I've actually got no idea whether the NBC info is correct. I mean, their tests with the mobile RX 580 put it within 5% of the 1060 laptop (not Max-Q, Max-Q is like 1000 behind in Fire Strike) so I just assumed that the mobile parts from Polaris were downclocked desktop parts - same as Nvidia.

 

Eh... where my prayers heard? In this russian shop the laptop is already available with the i5-8250u, a true quadcore. Definitely worth over a dual core with hyperthreading. I hope the updated model comes to other countries soon.

After watching some benchmarks about the rx560 I also came to the conclusion the gpu will be equal in value to the 1050 gtx, regardless the lesser DX11 performance. Possibly a better choice for the future (within this midrange class...). Also the more I think about it, the more I think the shader count is incorrect on NBC... it makes more sense if it were the full 1024 shaders, equal to the desktop specs. Haven't found hard proof though...

However I found a german blog which tested a Lenovo Legion Y520 with the RX560, claiming it delivers 54fps in Crysis 3, in FHD and max settings... or 40fps in 2560x1080 and max settings. If I recall correctly from benchmark videos, the gtx 1050 2gb only delivered about 36fps in FHD at this exact scene in Crysis 3. To be honest, I'm kinda suspicious about the authenticity of the data, as it's almost 50% more fps for the Radeon. Hard to believe...

Also the GPU-Z data from the blog is totally wrong, as it shows 2048 shader cores, but a ridiculous small 32 bit bus...

 

Yeah, that blog is full of crap, 50% more performance than the 1050 in a game that favours Nvidia cards for the most part is very strange. Besides, I don't recall a 560 model of the Y520 ever being released.

 

So I thought this Ideapad was very interesting. However, before making an order, I wanted to know about its maintenance options. Luckily I found the manual on the Lenovo page with sketches of the disassembly and insides (see picture below).

Access and maintenance is easy. Just unscrew the bottom panel, and that's it. The insides however are underwhelming:

- First of all it's a poor way of cooling, if the fans only cool from 1 side and go over both CPU and GPU. Not saying it doesn't work, as I recall the Acer A715, the Lenovo Legion, and HP Omen having a similar way of cooling... but it still seems bad. In fact it seems even worse than on the 14" version...
- The second thing I dislike about the cooling is the different fan sizes (you can see it better in the full manual). I once (10 years ago) had a laptop which had a similar setup: bigger fan for CPU and smaller fan for GPU. However these different fans became very annoying, as they resulted in uneven noise signature. Really annoying. This type of cooling has since disappeared for the most part... until now. In this modern laptop... what.the.f#ck? Why??? Not sure how bad it really is, but it's a huge disappointment to see something like that again. Even more so when you know, that all above mentioned laptops don't make that mistake. They all have equally big fans. Heck... even the Yoga 720 has equally big fans. And the 14" version as well. So why does the Ideapad 720 has not?? That's ridiculous. What a bummer...
- Another (albeit minor) issue is, that there is only 1 slot for a RAM Stick (you can't see it here, but it's in the docs).

My enthusiasm is mostly gone now...
Kinda unfortunate, as it looked like a good alternative to the Asus n580vd...

 

Lenovo have been doing this for quite a while. Y50, IdeaPad 700 and now 720 - all of those had different size fans. I guess they like it for some unknown reason. Or it's a cost-cutting measure.

As for the N580 - it's a good machine provided you can get an IPS screen on it.

 

Ah yes, that's true. I remember now. However, now that I searched some pictures of disassembled Y50 and Ideapad 700, I'm not even sure the fans are different sized. Sure they look different sized on the first glance, but are they really? Or is it only the fan enclosure which makes them look bigger/smaller? The enclosures definitely have different sizes, but the fan engines themselves (without the rotor blades) seem to have the same diameter... not sure about the rotor blade sizes though, as they are hidden in the enclosure

Oh man... questions after questions... I guess only a full disassembly can tell... meh. But maybe it's not as bad, as I feared. If I recall correctly the Y50 received acceptable emissions and no disturbing frequencies... ah yes, there was a review on NBC. Now I'm as clever as before. Only a real "hands on" would eliminate the doubts.

PS: about the RAM on the Lenovo 720-15: I forgot... on the website there is an option to get part of the RAM soldered, and a part as optional stick, which would allow dual channel.

This Ideapad is obviously less flexible than the Asus n580vd. But it's indeed the TN panel which turns me off from Asus. In my country only the 4k panel is available as IPS, which is total overkill in usage and of course the ridiculous additional price tag...

 

As a former Y50 owner, I believe the fans are indeed different sizes as during idle, only the larger one was spinning but as soon as the smaller one kicked in, there was an immediate change in the noise. Though there weren't any moments when I felt like there was uneven noise output (mainly due to the fans being next to each other I imagine)

As for the RAM - I believe that with a CPU from this caliber, 16GB is probably the most you want. Hence why I opted for 16 on my machine rather than 24. It just doesn't make much sense with a lower end quad-core.

The main draw to the N580 for me is the 1050, battery (6-7 hours of use IIRC) and keyboard. The main drawback is the screen. I like the materials used for the chassis but I wish it were sturdier. As it stands, it's a pretty thin metal body and it does suffer some flex. Though at 800$ and aluminium, I guess some concessions have to be made.

 

I investigated now the manuals of other Lenovo laptops (y50 and Ideapad 700) and realized, that the depicted sketch/outlines of the laptop are very close to reality, which means: there is indeed a bigger and a smaller fan in the Ideapad 720.

In comparison to that both fans of the Lenovo 700 and Y50 were or could have been similar in size. Although they look different in size (because of the different enclosures), the actual diameters of both fan engines seem identical. If the engines are identical, the engine noise would be identical. It's definitely different in the Ideapad 720, which clearly shows a different diameter in the second fan engine. A different engine means different engine noise. I kinda expect something like this ( photo) - that small black fan next to the standard sized fan... which s#cks...

I wished the N580 was not that expensive here (in german speaking countries)... the cheapest available version here starts with 1.400€ (TN only), which is the i7/16gb version. They just don't sell the i5/8gb version, which would be ~1000€ (prices from Netherlands, Belgium, Poland). In comparison to that, the Lenovo Ideapad 720 only costs 800€...
So currently it's like paying +600€ more for the Asus, which is ridiculous. I hope Asus comes to their senses and offers the cheaper version. That additional price tag is just too much...

 

Wait 1400 euros? That's the price of the ZenBook Pro UX550. Can you get that instead? Or the last gen UX501VW

 

The UX550 is in a range between 1.600-1.800€. The UX501 still costs 1.300€ (and has worse hardware). Also a disadvantage of the Zenbook is, that it has no ethernet port. I often need one (and hate dongles). Regardless, the Asus laptops look like overpriced jokes at this point. I guess I have to wait for "better times" or bite into the sour apple (either high price for Asus or possibly annoying fans for the Lenovo)...

 

1300 for the 501 is fine, it launched at 1600 IIRC. 1600 for the 550 is also normal pricing.

I get the need for a port but the good part is that the Wi-Fi adapters in these machines is actually surprisingly good.

As for the 6700HQ - it's 10% behind the 7700HQ and the 960M is about 30% behind the 1050. It's definitely usable.

 

I had the version of the Ideapad 720 with dual core for a short period of time (a day) so I can give you some feedback on it.
The build quality is not bad, altough it has prominent drawback with sharp edges, not only on a palm rest but even at the bottom (it seems that the notebook is made up of two metal parts and their connection is not so polished as it could be). Fans didn't seem to be annoying (but I don't know if I could hear the issue you might have with them) and they are not active all the time (small tasks like youtube video doesn't seem to be a bother to activate them, altough they were barely hearable during installation process).
The reasason why I sent it back was due to backlight bleed in the upper part of the screen. It didn't seem to be due to screen itself but the hard plastic that is around it putted some heavy pressure on it in one place (putting some pressure from the behind released the tension and the bleeding dissapeared). I believe that it was just mine faulty unit.

If you want to know more about the notebook, I was able to find one review of it, albeit in bulgarian. But you can google translate it.

http://www.digital.bg/biznes-ili-ge...---displey-harduer-i-bateriq-video613994.html
http://www.digital.bg/biznes-ili-ge...0---dizayn-klaviatura-i-cena-video613687.html

 

Thanks, every information is welcome

I must let off some steam here btw...WARNING... wall of /rant incoming:

Tbh the only thing which really turns me off this laptop is the AMD Radeon Graphics. I have still a Radeon GPU in my current laptop (and also had before), but due to the enormous heat and sucky driver support I have sworn to myself to never buy a laptop with Radeon again.

Nevertheless I'm impressed with AMD as they are able to compete with Nvidia in mobile gpus again. Again after so many years... the last couple of years the mobile mainstream Radeons were much worse than anything from Nvidia. The last time I remember Radeon being able to compete with Nvidia was when I bought my laptop 6-8 years ago. Back at that time I also had the choice between Ati/Radeon and Nvidia, but chose Radeon. Now I'm almost in the same situation. I'm seeing "oh, Radeon has become strong again... will I take it?", and funnily enough there is a risk of making the same mistake again...

What mistake?
- The heat. Radeons are producing and "radiating" enormous heat ... even now when I look benchmarks and see the temperature between mainstrem Nvidia vs Radeon, there is 10°C difference on average. I doubt it will be much different on laptops.
- If you ever install Linux and use 3d, you will hate everything Radeon. It was this way in the past, and it is still now. Although I thought this has changed meanwhile (somewhere in the last years I have read how AMD and Vulkan will step up and it will own in Linux) - it hasn't happened that much. I've recently read on the Phoronix website about the RX460/560 experience... and it was deterring. The performance is still so much worse than Nvidia...
- Video rendering support? Nvidia CUDA is the way to go.
- Gaming? Nvidia seems to offer smoother and more stable framerates, even if lower fps.
- Driver support in Windows? Now here is a funny story... It's the same shjt as 8 years ago: go to the AMD website and look for RX560 notebookdrivers. There's a menu where you can select "Notebook drivers"... but there is no RX460/560 model listed. Instead the RX is only listed on "Desktop drivers". The real joke is, that it was the same many years ago! AMD offered no notebook drivers on their website. Instead you were stuck with the one single driver installed by the notebook manufacturer. Back at that time I was forced to use "hacked" Radeon desktop drivers to use the updated driver on the notebook. It's like history repeats itself... Seriously, it makes me mad. If the RX460/560 is already neglected at this point and in such an obvious way, I expect nothing but issues, and being stuck forever with driver errors from the first and only driver release.

But when you go to Nvidia... there it is: neatly listed drivers for both desktop and notebook GPUs, even the newest mobile chips like the MX150, including multiple driver versions for selection... as it should be.

It's sad, because I like the Ideapad model. If it had a Geforce 1050 I'd buy it in an instant. But Lenovo obviously thought that Ideapad users shouldn't get an Nvidia, and only the Yoga should get one... wtf

/rant end

 

May I offer an offset to your concerns with my own experience?

I've owned an 860M, 970M and prior to that, a desktop R9 280. Now, the desktop drivers I won't be discussing too much but those have never caused me any headaches aside from one single unstable driver several years ago. (The desktop is still in somewhat active use)

As for the laptop drivers - get ready, this will be fun.

So where do I begin? Well, my 860M machine (a older Y50) totally crapped itself on an OS level - about a month after first install. Reason? GeForceExperience messed with the NTFS system registry and tried to do some weird ****. Any driver beside the one on the Lenovo's site would produce issues of varying severity from simple artifacting in Blizzard games to VRAM leaks and other. There were also, at one point, several drivers that would literally kill the laptop display outright (I think it was mainly on Dell machines without Optimus where the dGPU controls the screen directly). I kid you not. My 970M has been stable so far but ONLY when GeForce Experience and all the other bloatware (yes, it's practically useless) is removed. I also dare not update drivers frequently because, well, lets just say I don't want to lose my University thesis in case the driver decides it doesn't like system32.exe again.

As for heat - previous AMD mobile GPUs were worse (mainly talking about 6000 series and the R9 200 mobile stuff - the 5000 and 7000 mobile series were in line with Kepler at the time)

Linux - yeah, that's really a place where Nvidia drivers require less tuning but I don't really know much about the OS to offer a proper opinion.

Video editing - depends on the software. Adobe loves CUDA, Sony Vegas and Final Cut love OpenCL. I'm serios. testing 2 reasonably equal cards from both OEMs in Sony Vegas makes Nvidia GPUs seem...oddly slow. Image taken from Anandtech


As for gaming - that depends on the game engine mostly. I've had inconsistent behaviour in CS:GO on my 970M laptop but the 280 desktop (it has a Haswell i5 - should not be too different from the 6700HQ) doesn't fluctuate as much. Haven't tested other games since I do play more CS or at least did until recently.

 

Lenovo Legion Y520 with RX 560 already have german review. The performance par with GTX 1050. Power draw was higher than GTX 1050 notebook but not even close to GTX 1060 notebook
https://notebooks-und-mobiles.de/lenovo-legion-y520-radeon-rx-560-im-test

 

Would you be able to clarify for me if this 720 15" is a glossy display like the 720S 14" or a matte finish like the 710S 13". I have an i5 6260U with the Iris 540 GPU as a compromise because I hate glossy displays. Would like to try the larger 720 15" but only if it has matte finish.

Thanks for any help

 

I am considering to buy ideapad 720 too, and was also worried about noise and heating due to two different fans size design, found this review (in french) which says it shouldn't be an issue at all: https://www.lesnumeriques.com/ordinateur-portable/lenovo-ideapad-720-p41479/test.html

"Despite its dedicated graphics card, the Ideapad 720 heats little and remains very discreet in terms of ventilation. After an hour of stress-testing under Unigine Heaven, the temperature does not exceed 45.7 ° C in the front, on a very localized area, and 45.9 ° C under the frame, at the hinge. The exhaust system is efficient and gives off a breath that does not exceed 38 dB, just slightly more than the ambient noise of a room. The ventilation remains discreet, even in a game."

The review unit was equipped with i5-7200U, I am going to buy 8th gen i7-8550U version, which should give much better performance, but with the same or better thermal footprint.

 

THe 8550U runs a lot hotter than the 7000 series. Do keep in mind that most laptops that got updated from 7th to 8th gen without a change in cooling design noted an increase in thermals of around 5-10*C

Also - the review talks about surface temps and those are irrelevant - the internal thermals and clockspeeds are what matters.

 

Could you upload it on Dropbox/GoogleDrive ?

 

Adding to this post, because I also found this Ideapad 720s 15 on Lenovo's website, with some very interesting specs. Has the full quad-core i7-7700HQ, with GTX 1050 Ti. Looks promising.

https://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/ideapad-700-series/Ideapad-720S-15/p/81CR0005US

 

It uses a Max Q GTX 1050ti
Found a video with the i5 version and lots of cats.


Looks like a winner.

 

The 1050 Ti MQ is laughable. It's what you'd expect from a beefy 1050....

 

Not a fan of MaxQ GPU’S?
I feel they have there place and do a pretty good job for what they are.

 

They are horribly overpriced for the performance they offer. For example, 1080 prices for 1070 performance and in this case, 1050 Ti price for 1050 performance. It's a rip-off that OEMs use as an excuse to skimp even more on cooling than they already do.

 

I agree they are overpriced but I believe they still have a place, but in this case it seems to still perform better than a regular GTX 1050.
There are not many alternatives if you want a thin and lite notebook that has a decent discrete GPU that cost hundreds more.
MX 150 laptops cost just about the same and the cheaper ones have other issues ( crappy screen, cheaper build quality or CPU's that run hot).
In your opinion what would be a better thin and lite laptop with discrete GPU that performs better and still have a good screen and good build quality for around $1200?
SurfaceBooks are way overpriced and Dell makes a cheaper laptop with Max Q GTX 1060 but suffers from worse build quality and crappy screen, looks much worse too.
I'm very open to suggestions.

 

For that price you can find a 1050 UX550VD and even a 1060 GS43 (if you don't mind 3-4 hours of battery life). I believe the 1050 Acer Spin/Nitro Spin is also around 900-1000$ and the VivoBook N580 (the only downside here is the screen) is about 800-900$ for a 1050.

Besides, the video above shows the CPU going above 90*C under heavy load and that's not exactly ideal considering most of the above-mentioned devices run cooler.

 

The ASUS UX550VD is a throttling mess and the Acer Spin and Nitro worse build quality. The MSI is good but suffers from loud fans.
I've checked all those out and while no laptop is perfect the Lenovo might be a better overall choice

 

Erm, are you looking at the same devices as I am or just trying to justify the IdeaPad? Cause you're wrong.

The UX550 has a BIOS limit on the CPU-side that limits clockspeed to base after it reaches 85*C. An undervolt largely mitigates that and the goal behind that is to achieve lower fan noise. It's not perfect, by no means, but the GPU does not throttle and games (according to NBC) are not affected and CPU-only tasks do not trigger it.

As for the Acer Spin models - both have an aluminium unibody and feel both premium and durable.

The GS43 is louder because the GPU is a LOT more powerful than the 1050TiMQ.

The 720s has its own problems as with any laptop - it runs hot and somewhat loud, the battery life is pretty poor and the screen is nothing to write home about - average IPS panel like the one on the Spin models.

 

Not trying to justify anything just going by memory from ultrabookreview a couple months back, maybe I was a bit harsh saying it was a “throttling mess” but remember reading it struggled to maintain consistent CPU speeds in some games and it cost more.
Did consider the Acer before finding out what a dim screen it has.
Not looking for a gaming powerhouse just a good balance for a little of everything
I’ve already have a 17” laptop with GTX 1070 so gaming isn’t a priority just something a bit more portable and smaller that can also game when I get the urge without breaking the bank.
Like I said no laptop is perfect but this one looks pretty decent.

 

Personally, I'd look at an MX150 since those ultrabooks tend to offer a lot better battery life and acoustics/thermals. The 720s is fine but I'd argue the ZenBook is a better option if you want a good screen + battery life.

 

If I can get the ASUS for around the same price on the Lenovo ($ 1200) I would consider but the only models I've seen cost $300-$400 more, I really appreciate the input.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, that's the UK >.<

 

Found an IPS VivoBook Pro N580 model, worth considering.
https://www.amazon.com/N580VD-DB74T-VivoBook-Touchscreen-GeForce-keyboard/dp/B0747S3V8D

EDIT: It's louder and warmer but doesn't throttle the CPU/GPU and still offers 6 hours of battery life in an aluminum chassis.

 

What do you think about the gs63vr? I can't decide if I should go for the 720s (7700 + 1050 ti) or gs63vr (7700 + 1060)

 

It's a little warm and the chassis is somewhat delicate due to the thinness but it's a very powerful device with solid electrical design. Just don't expect more than 3 hours of battery life from it.

 

i` got the i5 8250u Rx 560 version ... and i`m fully satisfied ... all games goes perfect on high settings , batery holds is about 5.5 hours on normal wifi usage and 75% brightness.
I do not like the metalic design of the keybord case ..... (btw botom part is plastic , only top is metal ) is to sharp on edges ...keybord is ok .
Display is ok but not perfect (bleeding thru edges and black is not perfect enough but it is usable enough after calibration).
Any questions ?

 

Are you sure that the bottom lid is made of plastic?
Most of reviews say that 720-15 has all-metal build, aside the bezels around the screen everything else is supposed to be aluminum.

520, on the other hand, has plastic bottom cover but all else is supposed to be just like on 720.

 

Yeap... Botom of the keyboard part is plastic..... I used knife to test it.... But top part of keyboard is 100% metal.
I can make video if you wish.

 

Hi and thanks for your review. I have a couple of questions regarding 720 model. Could you please tell what is the average brightness (cd/m²)? And what do you think regarding the display? e.g. 520 model has a very pure level of brightness (that's why I didn't buy it). So I have doubts.

Also, what do you think about new e580 ThinkPad? What would be better? (comparing with ideapad 720-15ikb)

Many thanks for help!

 

hmmm i have only spider 3 sensor for white balance .... where i do not now how to measure brightness of the screen.... but in the work i have professional certified and calibrated light meter for this ,so if you will wait i can measure it in the Monday (when i do not forget).
As for the other NTB e580 ... i just briefly watch over it and i see it has only integrated graphic card ... which is not good for me ... but it will last much longer on battery ... so it depends on the purpose you are searching for ... i need 3d graphic for my work ... not only for gaming . so i chose this one .... i was watching also ti 1050 NTB ... but they are overpriced to this on 720-15ikb...and now i now they are the same speed in terms of graphic and battery .

 

Hello! Thanks. It'd be very helpfull for me if you do it. btw e580 has a model with 550MX. But definitely 560 is much more powerfull. Also, have you played some games on your 720?

 

ok i will do it in monday ...
I have played games of course ... and wolfenstain II and COD WWII are running well on full hd in high details and max textures ... if you give me some idea on soft to measure FPS i will measure it for you .

 

Hi! I play only Dota2 and SC2 Mainly looking for a laptop for work but smtimes I play some games.

Have you had a chance to do a screen test?

 

I have NTB here at work ... but still i`m waiting for colleague to arrive to work so he can measure it ...

 

Ok it has 217 cd/m2 ....i do not hnow if i`m doing it right ... but it looks morebrigten then my Desktop monitors .... Eizo and NEC spectraview......

 

Are you sure that it's max? Because Lenovo says that it has ~300 nits.

 

here is photo from the measurement it self ..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g7bSxZmLjMh4WH9ohJlPgjtwVs_UG8_Z/view?usp=sharing