Dumping Lenovo T410s for Sony Vaio Z

I take some offense to this! My Gateway/Acer LT31 netbook has a much brighter and prettier screen than my T61, it's not even close. It's not as good as my IPS Dell stand-alone monitor but it is (sadly) much better than most Lenovo screens.

 

Lenovo isn't chasing the smallest and lightest laptops, they just want a laptop that works.

Yes and no, Sony use to make the most durable product in the world, but not anymore.

Regarding design consistency, well if you remove the Sony and VAIO logo, and show the laptop to someone, then they could easily mistake it for something from HP, Dell, etc... even without Lenovo/IBM/Thinkpad logo, you show the Thinkpad laptop to someone, then people will know it is a thinkpad. This is called design consistency.

 

I have both thinkpad and sony - well, I got sony b/c my thinkpad died. Honestly, from my experience with 2 years old thinkpad and 1 month old sony, I would say that thinkpad outperforms vaio. Of course my sony is faster since it's new and better configured, and I had a bad experience with thinkpad t61 (both ram died within 1 year and a half, then graphic card died) so I bought vaio to try out. But I gotta say even though thinkpad is "ugly", it is stable - i never once had blue screen (except when ram died). Vaio has given me 2 blue screen out of nowhere for the last month. Not to mention keyboard - thinkpad has the best keyboard ever. Also, vaio seems too fragile. My mom sat on my thinkpad for 5 mins before accidentally and it did not break. I spilled a few drops on the computer - didn't die. Though I had to go through painful experience with thinkpad when it died because of faulty graphic card, I would say it's the most satisfying laptop I have had among dell, hp, vaio and lenovo.
Though, for the sake of argument, I think the 2 are designed for different purposes. Businesses will always use thinkpad while sony is geared toward regular consumers, I would say.
just my 2 cents

 

At not point did Sony ever make the "most durable laptops". They have always been on cutting edge particularly with ultraportables. Then they filled their portfolio out with a lot of rather forgettable product. Maybe you dont know the facts and you just think "Sony". But we are talking about laptops, not cassette players or whatever you remember.

One would presume higher ambitions for their flagship product, inclduing a screen better than the one found in $500 netbooks. But that isnt the case. So one cant really assume that Lenovo actually cares that much.

To be honest the way that I generally confirm that I'm looking at a Lenovo is to turn on the screen. If it endagers my vision, then its fair to assume its a thinkpad. With only a few exceptions, this has been the case going back to when it was badged as an IBM. That's "design consistency" I guess.

 

Trust me i know Sony laptops, had a couple of them in my early university years. I rather not talk about their dodgy warranty service and quality. Durable laptops doesn't mean it has to survive several 1 m drops, it simply means a laptop that last the distance and not going to fail after 2 years of normal use.

Regarding the walkman analogy... well i guess i followed your logic with the Nintendo and Disney, which i am sure was nothing relevant to the computer industry at large.

The keyword here is assume, it is nothing but a guess, and as such it can be taken as a grain of salt.

The last thing we need is a blind cynic, whom can not hold a consistent argument and start calling everyone bottom feeders....

 

I don't know what it would cost Lenovo, but having a decent screen at a slightly higher price would not be unreasonable...

I mean, if you are already paying out over 1200 for a thinkpad, i don't see why 1300+ would make that much of a difference.

 

Lenovo has sort of responded to this that the demand is really not there save for the enthusiast market. The support cost to have the proper amount of units for servicing over the next few years and the added supply chain costs are apparently too high to just have it as an option.

That's what we have been sort of told in the past more or less. Everyone who is into nice screens has said they'd want one, but don't really see it happening unfortunately save for the tablet.

 

I guess if one is coming from a Mac or a Vaio, he/she might find the ThinkPad's screen somewhat dissapointing. I, for one, find my T61's LG perfectly acceptable if not very good. It's just not bright enough for outdoor use. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

The biggest complaint I've heard is that they have a terrible vertical viewing angle range. It's not a bad screen if you look at it dead on, but it is hard to keep it dead on.

 

Ya, and it is relative to your use. I can use the very mediocre screen of the x200 while using an 24in IPS panel as my main desktop screen.

I just realize the laptop is for mobile use and am content with being able to read documents and charts for working.

 

Ah I see. I only use it dead-on on my home and library desk. I see where you are coming from.

 

I came to vaio b/c i was upset that t61 died after less than 2 years - did not know about the faulty GPU.
In any case, I think it all depends on people and if it were me, I'd get Vaio z for fun and thinkpad for work (hmm i wish i had all that money hehe)

 

I did not find the newer Thinkpads any faster than the T61 (for general word processing, movie watching and internet surfing), at any rate after your T61 is properly repaired, you can still use it for work.

 

I'm not sure why people constantly hype Lenovo. The SL series they have is as bad as the worst HP laptops. I saw one in a laptop store and couldn't believe it. IBM wouldn't put out something like that. It was just bad.

I am not sure if the Thinkpad series is worse than the IBM ones released but if Lenovo is putting out that SL and they are at most, in the middle of the pack when reviewed and compared against other brands, I'm not sure if Lenovo is deserving of the hype they receive in such places.

I am not sure if they can be classified as 'business machines' anymore or not. I don't know of any corporations that use them. Compared to what? Dell also has a business line but they also get criticized as well. I guess Lenovo laptops are more affordable than Dell Latitudes and Precisions - as long as you can get one with a discount coupon. I admit, you can get a good discount...providing it hasn't expired yet.

 

i don't think anyone here is saying the SL series is a true thinkpad, it is more of a consumer quality laptop with a thinkpad logo. It is obvious that you don't follow the forum very closely.

 

So I discovered a possibility how to get this new Vaio for 1734USD (the business charges no tax).Now I am tempted to look closer at this computer. I looks like something I might like. BUT: I am really worried about noise/overheating issues? Would anyone be able to comment based on some relevant experience? Noise is the only reason why I am not buying the T410s.

 

hehe I agree. for general use, t61 is no different from other current laptop but I realized that my vaio with i5 is much faster when I run matlab Now maybe I should get an SSD for t61 then things may change... also upgrade to x64 to use all the ram i had in my t61.
anyway, I think that my next laptop, probably in 3 years, will be another thinkpad hehe

 

Matlab can be very CPU intensive, so in such cases new CPU are better. My friend's W510 with quad core is absolutely flying in the matlab programs, it use to take him around a day in his T43, can be done in little over 1 hour.

 

@puter1

I agree with lead_org that you don't seem to be very familiar with the general consensus on this board regarding the SL series.

And that being said if you think the SL series is representative of the Thinkpad brand as a whole, then I think you've grossly overlooked it.

And what is your familiarity with the corporate environment? Competition is much greater these days and brand loyalty has dwindled, but Thinkpads are still very much enterprise/business machines.

 

This is much overblown. The internet is awash in consumer discount coupons for these so called "enterprise" thinkpads. And they are heavily discounted for all holidays, valentines day and what have you. Whch has nothing to do with how a corporate purchasing department buys. It has to do with consumers.

At the company I work at, when I joined 4 years ago they used to issue only Thinkpads, with the Fujutsu S series as alternates. Then it became strictly Dell shortly after I got there. And now in the past couple of months the standard latops that the IT dept issues and supports are now a two-brand choice of Dell and MacBook Pros. Siimilarly, while we used to use only Nokia E series for phones a few years ago it is now Windows Mobile and iphone.

So this "enterprise" thing is way overblown. Any number of devices will do just fine for corporate use - and there are few laptops that are designed purely for and sold only to companies, no matter what the manufacturer says.

 

Nobody says Lenovo only sells to enterprise or mass roll out type customers with the Thinkpad line. But Thinkpads are hardly adopted en mass by regular consumers and are rarely compared to consumer oriented machines in buying decisions.

And skagen you just said Thinkpads were the standard issue for your company a few years ago. Lenovo has obviously tried to expand the user base beyond what IBM had. That can mean a dilution of the brand and its market but that still doesn't mean that is not the main focus.

My company has the common couple year business leases and had Dell replace the Thinkpads in the current cycle.

As I indicated there is a lot more competition and you're only iterating my point when you say there are other options. I am not saying if you're a large company you HAVE to use a Thinkpad. I just think that's the main target group for the brand.

 

as was discussed, Lenovo is no longer targeting the thinkpads purely at the corporate market, they want to get more market share in the consumer market. This is quite easy to see with the release of the edge, and other differentiated Thinkpad products.

Coupons and discounts is just there to sway those undecided customers to purchase the thinkpads.

Also, Dell does this sort of things too, so it is not just a Lenovo thing

 

You're just repeating what I said: there is no point continuing the myth that these are keenly focused "enterprise" products. They are hawked to whomever will buy them and engineered to hit mass market discount price point.

 

Hello, I now own a new Sony Z, and I have an old T60 (upgraded with SSD)..
Hope you will appreciate some of my thoughts and info:

Here are some thoughts/info on the Z:

-Noise: Yes, the fan is on all the time. If you are working in a quiet environment, it might irritate you, but it is not loud! I'm used to a dead silent computer (T60, and another one) - so it does irritate me sometimes. And during heavy CPU usage, it quickly spins up, and becomes a small "jet". For me it doesn't matter, I don't use it that heavy that often (and usually not in situations where I really need it to be quiet), and the noise just means it's working hard - really fast..
But I hear T410s also has got som whining from the CPU...

-Overheating: Not an issue. Yes the air out gets hot (and a little under that area), but nothing else gets very hot. Not a problem for me (but I haven't used it on my lap with very heavy apps. It can be a small problem if you sit with a blanket around you and have it on your lap - but that would be a general problem more or less for all powerful laptops with fan when you block exit/entry for the air...

-Build quality:
I'm used to "throwing" my T60 all around, in/out of bags and using it when tuning cars (mainly in the car), which means some dirt and lot of moving around and lid opening/closening.
I'm not worried that the Sony will break, but I will treat this one with much greater care. It is very much more sensitive to scraches, dust, dirt and fluids, and they will be more visible and cause more damage.

For me the Lenovo perhaps is a more sensible choice because it is build more sturdy (and I don't really need a graphics card. I think. I'm only using Lightroom and wanted fast file conversion/import and adjustments).
But I went for Sony because it is just so damn sexy, small and light. (And didn't have the patiance to wait for t410s. And I can continue to use my T60 when I need the roughness).

Docking station is not very good (lavk of sound output and "tracks"/release button), and the resolution and number of monitors is limited. I'm using 1920x1200 via DVI on the docking (at the same time the laptop screen), it works fine. But I think it slows things down a little bit.

Not 100% shure, but I think I saw a T400s, and if it's the same size as T410s, it has got a much larger footprint also - almost like my old 4:3 15inch laptop (due to areas around the screen and speakers next to keyboard), so it is bigger. Not that it would matter that much to me, as the most important factor is weight - then flatness, and then footprint..

My other comments can be found her:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/son...7-official-owners-thread-373.html#post6159361
and here (with more comparison to the t410s):
http://forum.notebookreview.com/wha...2-ready-buy-t410s-vs-vaioz-2.html#post6116948

 

I don't think anyone here is explicitly saying that Thinkpads is still purely targeted at the corporate market. IBM PC business dwindled because it only focused at the upper end of the corporate market. So don't think Lenovo is making that mistake again.

 

I've been shopping around for notebooks for some time, and while I was drawn to the Vaio Z because of its specs and [especially] its screen, I was seriously turned off by its cheap feel. Yes, its casing utilizes aluminum and carbon fiber, but both feel so thin and cheap that I would compare it to a netbook, most of which already seem like they were made by Fisher Price. I don't care if it was designed to make it weight less. If it weighs less but feels cheap then it's a serious flaw in my opinion. Also, the touchpad on the Vaio Z is appalling! I would rather buy a used T43p on eBay and make use of that until Lenovo refreshes the X/T-series with more desirable specs than spend so much on a creaky, recycled notebook - at least I have a trackpoint and tank of a case with the T43p.

Sorry if I offend anyone, that's just how I feel. I'm waiting for quality in the full package, not just the parts (as with just about every notebook on the market).

 

if lenovo wants to expand it's market share, why don't they just concentrate on their ideapad for the consumer market and leave the thinkpad where it should be. If they dilute the thinkpad reputation, then they are risking losing the loyal customer base.

 

I switched to Sony Vaio Z from a long long time love with Thinkpad (I owned T30, T42, T43p, X41, R61, and T61p before). No regret here!
My Vaio Z really rocks. It's super light, very fast and and very touch. I love its screen which is superior to any screen of the Thinkpads I used before (actually superior to any laptop screen that I have had a chance to see and ...yes even better than that of my previous T61p. I should admit that the screens on my Thinkpads were poor except the one on my T61p which was pretty good ).

The only complaint is the high price (and probably the lack of dedicated Home/End/PageUp Down buttons) and the only thing I miss from Thinkpad is the trackpoint.

@Coswyn: you don't need to defame Sony in that illogical way. Even low end Sony looks attractive (Am I being biased here?). But I am sure that most people prefer a lighter laptop (this is actually the main reason that I considered buying a Vaio Z instead of another Thinkpad)
The Vaio Z is a high end model and it does look luxurious.

 

Heavyrain2408
How is trackpad on the Vaio Z, alot of people dislike their trackpad.

 

I went similar path with the Thinkpads (600X, 42p, 61p). Now after my x201s was canceled due to parts unavailability I couldn't wait anymore with the upgrade and got the basic silver VPCZ112GDS with 128GB SSD.

The new Z is great, during normal office work the fan does not really disturb me, when I run complex calculations and all 4 CPU threads get busy it does get a bit louder, but nothing unbearable. The 1600x900 screen is beautiful and I love the built in HDMI output too. The touchpad works fine with the Sony drivers as far as I can tell.

I miss the sturdiness of the ThinkPads - but the last 2 didn't last longer than 2 years anyway (infamous motherboard problem with 42p and GPU problem with 61p). I have to see yet how durable the Z really is - I travel a lot - and will have to definitely protect the fragile screen.

 

It works fine to me. It's not as precise as a trackpoint but still very good.
It took my some time to get used to a trackpad because I haven't used any touch pad for so many years. I always had touchpad on my Thinkpads disabled so I really can't compare.

We can always change the sensitivity of touchpad as we do with trackpoint. So it shouldn't be a problem.