Do not buy Lenovo T-series laptops

The reason for that is because Lenovo's new products failed to inherit IBM's quality. So here is the story:

I bought the all new T61 about a year ago, everything went well but it came with a dead battery which is okay because I got warranty to take care of that. Other than that, I was happy with the T61 until yesterday. Basically, since I bought it, the display driver sometimes stopped functioning, the program that I was running freezed so I used a standard procedure alt-ctrl-del to shut down the program. Then, a balloon said the display driver was recovered so no problem, I was okay with that. However, the nightmare begins last night when I was browsing internet. The display was definitely not working well, it recovered couple times and I had seen some black screens before it fully recovered which was something new to me with this laptop. Finally, the display cannot be recovered the third time so I realized the fact that the display card was dead right away.
Having understand that it is a common problem for most the laptops in the market, I wasn't mad at all even the warranty just expired at the right time. However, I took it to the university lab and asked for help from my friend in the electronic engineering discipline who has been repairing laptops for years. So he showed me that Lenovo put some kind of glue adhesive on the motherboard to stick the display card which has to be heaten up in order to be removed and there is a risk of damage. This problem arise since the T60 came out but before that the T40 is alright. No other laptops manufacturer in the market would put glue to stick hardware onto the motherboard. Lenovo not only makes repairs a lot harder but also boost up the failing rate. In other words, a $200 repair job would probably cost over a thousand. It's interesting to know that the life span of the display card on my laptop is just over a year. I'm not blaming on NVIDIA but I'm just amazed by the accuracy of the life span estimation. Couldn't Lenovo intend to do something to get more customers perchasing their warranty plans but who knows? Anyway, I'm not interested in finding out but a brand switch is definitely on the way. I'm not sure if the new X-series laptops have the same problem but it is possible if the manufacturing process is the same. For a price like that, I was expecting it to last at least 3 years with a stable performance but oh well...good luck to Lenovo.

 

Here we go again...(to the don't buy lenovo!)

It isn't uncommon for certain components to be non-replacable (ie not socketed). That's why fixing laptops is so expensive if a component on the motherboard fails.

That isn't anything new.

Your GPU doesn't happen to be in the line that nvidia acknowledged to have some manufacturing issues with bump cracks does it?

 

I believe the Nvidia GPUs of the T61 generation (based on the GeForce 8x00 GPUs) are the faulty ones.

 

No manufacturer uses "glue adhesive" to connect a graphics card to a motherboard. Graphics cards are soldered onto almost all laptops, and thermal paste is used between the die and any heatsink. Graphics cards are almost never user-replaceable.

Before you accuse a company of shady business practices, it'd be nice if you knew at all what you were talking about first.

 

Also have you ruled out that the screen isn't bad?

 

I am a CS&E graduate (UC Davis, 2004) and have fixed/worked on several laptops myself. there is no glue but a black adhesive tape around the gpu, a square cut out that leaves the heat plate exposed to transfer heat to the heatsink. this is done to avoid the thermal paste (which is sometimes conductive) from smearing onto the nearby components of the gpu.

there is an NVIDIA defect in regards to the packaging of the chip. the packaging refers to the green plastic substance that holds the actual silicon chip.

this green plastic shell does not expand and shrink as the gpu heats up and cools off. this is an nvidia defect

however its probably possible that your friend tried to repair it, failed (or made it worse by failing to apply thermal paste correctly) and gave you some bs cover story

I have worked on 5 t61s and 2 t60s. that black tape around the gpu does not need to be removed with a heat gun. its just black electrical tape.

and if you are referring to how to gpu is mounted to the motherboard, flip it over and you can see the solder joints. no glue

 

I've had both my R60s completely ripped apart and I can assure you there was no glue on the GPU. Some T4x machines used epoxy on the GPU to prevent the GPU from flexing and coming loose, but not to hold it in place. The chassis of the T4x unit was less rigid than the newer T6x units. When the machines where handled on the sides, the motherboard flexed, causing the GPU to come loose. I believe a change in the soldering technique mostly fixed this on late T42 and T43 machines.

Though you're not blaming nVidia, they are the likely culprit in this matter. The nVidia GPUs in the T61 and R61 have higher failure rates. My guess would be this is what is wrong with your machine, though it's kind of hard to diagnose over the internet.

I think if you can find fault with Lenovo on the matter it's that they've not stepped up to extend the warranty for GPU related issues like Dell, HP and Apple have done. For whatever reason, which they've not shared with anyone else, they have chosen not to do so.

You're probably looking at a planar replacement. I might suggest an Intel based planar, which don't have the failure issues. If you can do it yourself you'll save some money. Good Luck.

 

But.. but... I already did buy one!!!! (screams in panic)

somebody help me!!!

(wheezes.. pants.. chokes..)

will this nightmare ever end?

 

im buying one tomorrow cuz there the god tier of laptops .. whats this nonsense hes talking bout ... lenovos are amazing or at least thats what ive heard

 

Our T42 and T43 are TANKS. Period.

I've handled many T6X series laptops and they are the same, if not better.

 

Lenovo isn't infallible either. But as with other business laptops, they (thinkpads) are certainly built to be serviceable and built to last, in general .

 

That was not my experience. The T4x were very thin and look great, but that came at the cost of rigidity, which is why they had the GPU flex issue. Though it runs hotter due to the Pentium 3-M, the T30 was more durable and I think the general consensus is the T60s are much better machines in most ways except thinness and the keyboards on the T4x units are some of the best ever. My own T42 was kind of creaky by the time I got rid of it after a year and half. I was kind of glad I did.

 

Wow! This is totally contrary to my experiences. My T42 has not had an easy life by any means. I always pick it up by either the lower right corner of the laptop, or the lip on the lid around the screen. It's fallen off a desk, been bumped into many counters/doorhandles/walls/etc. The power cord has been yanked out multiple times when people have tripped over it (no, not me....college). It's about 5 years old now and still chugging along great (somehow). I also worked in IT for two summers and the T42 was used by most employees in the office and they were treated like crap. We never had any problems with them as far as durability (except of course when they were spilled on, or thrown in a river....yes....that did really happen...).

 

The motherboard on my T41 died after 15 months or so, just enough to be out of warranty. Apparently it was related to a failed video card which was soldered on and thus required motherboard replacement (not worth the exorbitant cost). I sympathize with the OP because this is extremely frustrating when you are buying a reputed "bulletproof", "top quality" notebook. The T41 cost about 2K at the time.

I started using IBM notebooks in '98, and though I won't pretend at technical expertise, the quality has clearly deteriorated over time. However, the price has also decreased substantially, so I've stuck with them. Others have noted this drop in price along with the drop in quality, and I think that's the best summary: they aren't as good as they were, but they're also much cheaper than before.

That said, if Lenovo truly cared about maintaining their reputation for selling the best business notebooks, why not stand behind the products with at least a 2 yr standard warranty? I don't remember IBM's standard warranty, because frankly I never needed it until the T41. But even if it was only 1 year, the fact remains that if your product is better and more durable than the competitors' then you should prove you believe that with the warranty.

My solution: stick with Lenovo but buy the 3 year warranty (under $100 at spp or cpp).

 

The T30 used Pentium 4 m, not Pentium 3 m. Last P3-m on a T was the T23.

Oh...and for personal reference, these are the Thinkpad I've owned or have been issued through work (1 600E, 1 T22, 1 X30)
600E (x3), T22 (x2), X30 (x3), A30, X31, T40, T41 (x2), T41p, T42, T42p, T43, T60 WS, R60 (x2), T61, T61p, W500.

Each T was better than the one before it, and the W500 is my favorite (although the T400 I worked on for a friend is a very very close 2nd. I prefer 14" to 15.4", but I had 3 batteries for the T500 and W500, so I upgraded to it instead of the T400). Build quality has gone up. Keyboards went down with the W500, but I had it swapped with a T61 keyboard. I actually was happier with the T6x keyboards than the T4x keyboards, due to the inclusion of the Windows key.

Your issue is likely due to the nVidia bug. It's unfortunate you're out of warranty.

 

ya, lenevo's aren't too good. try acer next time.

 

That's sarcasm, right? I mean, the Ferrari 4005 I had between the T42p and T43 was really nice...but there's a reason I went back to Thinkpads. That Ferrari is still in use today by one of my friends, just as good as it was 4 years ago (damn, it's been that long?). I wouldn't expect the same from their Aspire line though...

 

I have to heavily agree with Lithus, glue is not conductive if you haven't realized that by now. Do you think if it uses no soldering that somehow it produces a magical gas to communicate information between the mobo and the GPU? The T4x's are awesome, my T43 is fabulous, btw.. i overclock the X300m in the T43 from 330 core/230 mem to about 450 core/325 mem and i haven't had any glitches yet but i make sure it doesn't go above 80, nhc let's me know if it does anyways.

 

I have bought dozens of laptops over the past several year of all makes. Here is the bottom line in my experience.

Every manufacturer can have an issue - that is why the service matters!

You buy for quality/performance/reliability, service.

In my experience, going Lenovo is a no-brainer:

The pricing is competitive, and the support is stellar (if something hardware needs to be fixed/replaced.)
Dell service (hardware) tends to be very good. However, I've had my share of Dells that die too often - the service is fine, but the annoyance factor was high.
HP has horrible service. They are maybe a little cheaper, but when something goes wrong, it's a problem and hassle. My time is too valuable.

The Lenovo service people call you back when you get disconnected on a phone call. I've never had that with HP or any other laptop maker. They value my time.

Obviously, there are other brands, like Sony, Toshiba, Acer, etc., but my experience with those are the quality and functional design sometimes is lacking.

I spilled some coffee on my T400, and the sucker drained just like their demos. Got it cleaned up and it was good to go. That will kill other laptops. I thought "ya right, that is just marketing", but no I am a believer.

Sadly, we are past the days of laptop being super tanks, like the old Thinkpad 600/600E (remember those, anyone?).

Today, memory and disk are non-issues - they can be replaced cheaply.
Processors or more or less the same; as long as you are dual core, you are good to go. GPU is raised as an issue, but it's really depends. If you aren't gaming, it's not really make-or-break.

The only things that really matter are screen and keyboard.
Lenovo keyboards are the best of the lot (yes, they aren't like the "old" ones, but you can always swap out a Chicony (sp?) if you want.

Screen - LED backlit rocks, both for brightness and battery. This is on their value-line all the way up. I also find screen preference can be a personal issue. And most people are not going to do color correction/calibration.

I have a T400, and I can say it's one of the best laptops I have owned, and the service has been great.

Saving $50-100 really doesn't do it for me anymore, especially since the service is what matter. In some cases, Lenovo is cheaper and better than anyone else, depending on the sale.

Anyway, sorry to rant, but I figure I'd share what I've seen.

 

I just bought a new 15" t61 w/t9300, 3 year standard warranty included and I love this thing. Built like a tank and the keyboard is excellent!!!

I just retired a T20 I had purchased new since 2000!!! Yep 9 F'ing years of reliability. I was trying to wait to see if Lenovo would come out with a QX9300 CPU on a 15 inch laptop but the video card started to go bad in the T20. Before the T20 I had the 770ED, but by far this T61 I have now is a lot better than both. I've also used the T42. I've been using Thinkpads since 1997 and can find no reason to leave.

I looked at other brands before getting this and they were all too consumer based, as I use mine for work only. The build quality was not there especially taking price into consideration when comparing components. IMHO

I'm not a gamer so a lot of the flashier laptops don't suit my needs.

 

mikec: Nice comments. I agree with your sentiments, though don't have the same breadth of experience that you do.
Out of curiosity, were the Dells/HPs you had business, or consumer models (or both)? I've had simply amazing service with them over the years, but I think I've decided to try Lenovo next.

 

In my experience any business warranty is going to be certainly better than a consumer one. I've found HP's business support to be pretty good. You can even organize a claim with them via online chat support, which is convenient. I haven't dealt with Dell recently but at the time they replaced a motherboard to satisfaction.

 

I just wonder if the heat sink actually melted the black tape, creating adhesive like kind of stuff because somehow the plastic above it got so hot when I was running program like SolidWords or may be having a virus scan. For the rest, I didn't mean using glue to be a conductor, for sure that's soldering iron does the job. However, I'm just suspecting a flaw in the manufacturing process. Before I committed to buy the T61, my dad also had a T40 and I heard nothing but compliment on the durability of T40s. My friend told me the GPUs on the T40s are user replaceable but not on T60s. Regarding the issues with GPUs, he has succeeded repairing a T60 but failed the other two. So just something to think about.

 

Your friend is misinformed.

 

Of course they're replaceable.... provided that you replace the entire MOBO if you'd like to do that. With batman's post however.. it got me thinking, what material is that green plastic shell made of? If that's the main reason for failure in those GPU's, it seems like a simpler problem than i thought it would have been. I thought it was a more complex unsolvable problem, like what happens with a Northwood P4 when voltage is upped over 1.7. Has anyone ever thought about fixing the green casing or just replacing it with something else or is it permanently fixed to the mobo.

 

its called packaging and its done in a factory, you cannot change it out yourself.

Chip makers produce the actual silicon wafers and chip packagers design the plastic casing according to the characteristics given by the chip maker. that actual silicon chip is far to delicate for us to handle, hence the need for packaging.

my overclocked t61 still works fine, but has upgraded thermal paste and bent fixtures to help apply more pressure.

I think t61 owners out of warranty (wanting to extend the life of the gpu) should consider upgrading thermal paste and using tpfancontrol to monitor temps.

people with failed t61s should try getting lenovo to cover it, try working with their CC company to get a replacement/refund or if all else fails, get a mobo swap with an intel gpu

 

Well thanks for the heads up.. i use tpfancontrol for when i overclock the ATI X300 in my T43. I'm getting a T61p soon after the shipping hiccup gets resolved so temps will be critical seeing as i'll be trying out GTA 4 on it.

 

I feel like starting another thread "Buy Lenovo T-series laptops!!! Why? Because blah, blah, blah..." My two year old T61 has been going strong and without any problems! Unlike my new state-of-the-art x200s, which has had several serious problems..."

(OK, I should start yet another thread: "Do not buy Lenovo x200s laptops!!! Why? Because mine has...)