Disappointing Thinkpad T450s specs!

Terrrible specs for T450s.


>>>>>>>
T450s (featured below), which also features a 14-inch display but with higher resolution options:
1600 x 900 and 1920 x 1080. There are Intel 5th-gen Core i processors,
both HDD and SSD options, up to 12GB of RAM, a trio of USB 3.0 ports,
and a starting weight of 3.5lbs.
<<<<<<

Even with i5 Core processor, the weight starts at 3.5 lbs? it should be 3.1 or 3.25 lbs at the very least...

It should also feature 16GB ram, not 12GB

 

I'm just so very pleased to see the buttons are back, and that awful touch-strip is gone from the X1 Carbon.

I've been running on a Macbook for five or six months now, and Mac OS X has not been all I thought it would be. There are things about OS X I don't like, and I terribly miss middle-button scrolling with the trackpoint.

I'm in pretty bad want of a new PC, and I might pick one of the X1 Carbons this month.

 

I felt exactly the same as you about the macbook and OSX! I missed windows dearly! LOL

might i recommend you wait and see the new HP Elitebook 840 G2 that is coming soon....

Carbon X1 is probably the lighest 14" laptop out there that is business class though. A good choice as well...

 

T450s looks reasonably good to me. I've been afraid the direction Lenovo has been going would push me toward some other brand for my next computer, but return to more sensible keyboard layout, high resolution IPS panel, Broadwell i7 CPU that finally measures up to the speed of my Sandy Bridge i7 CPU, better integrated graphics, and much better battery life in a slimmer package, have got me thinking it's time to finally upgrade my T420s (in part because the warranty expires this July).

 

If you know how to do it better, you should start your own company and make a killing.

Most people don't need 16GB of memory. The T440p or T450 are an option if you do.

 

It's not out the question to expect at least the option of 16GB, especially for those of us who run VM's etc.

 

With respect:

• Many people do benefit from more than 8 GB of memory.
• With 4 GB soldered, performance is impaired with anything other than 8 GB, since dual channel operation needs matched memory banks.
• T450s is the current "premium" T-series machine. T450 is not, bigger and heavier. T440p is prior generation, bigger and heavier.
• Competitors offer 16 GB.

If it must solder base memory, Lenovo should offer an 8 GB soldered option.

 

The T440 and T450 also have 2 DIMM slots in which to install 16 GB.

 

Likewise the HP Elitebook 840 G2.
All the more reason for the T450s to have 2 SODIMM slots.

 

T450 and the Elitebook are both a little bit bigger then the T450s - T450s has the size of a 13" machine. Thus, where there is room inside the slightly bigger T450 Lenovo added the second RAM slot compared with the T440, there is no room inside the T450s.

 

Even if that is true, which I doubt, there is room for 8 GB soldered, which (as I noted earlier) would solve the problem. The size difference is small, with the same thickness:

• ThinkPad T450s: 13.03 x 8.90 x 0.83 in
  
• EliteBook 840 G2: 13.35 x 9.33 x 0.83 in

 

You are exactly right. Dell and HP were able to put two memory banks in their competing 14 inch and 12 inch laptops. Having a maximum of only 12 GB single channel RAM is a bummer and a totally artificial limitation.

 

I don't doubt that, but most T450s will be purchased by large institutional buyers who hand them out to workers wand they're unlikely to be running VMs. I'm assuming there's some cost advantage to soldering one stick, so Lenovo played to the middle since the percentage of the market that needs 16GB of memory is very small.

 

So why does the T450 have two memory slots? Is the T450 more likely to be used for running VMs than the T450s?

 

I would imagine it is because the T450 has more room and therefore doesn't need the space saved by soldering.

 

T450: (WxDxH) 339mm x 232.5mm x 21mm
T450s: (WxDxH) 331mm x 226mm x 20.65mm
http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf

The difference in dimensions is so minimal that I would image this to be a solvable problem for their engineers.

 

Lenovo offers 4GB or 8GB *soldered* RAM option on the latest X1C. There's absolutely no reason why this couldn't be done on the T450s.

 

Amen. The T420s has two slots and dual channel performance at maximum size. This is a step back, and is probably more about cost than space, a sorry choice for a "premium" machine.

 

That's backwards. T450s is the "premium" machine, not the mass volume machine. By that logic, T450 should have the soldered memory.

 

I wasn't defending their decision, just postulating a possible explanation. I don't know why else they would choose to solder memory on just the "s" model unless they were making tradeoffs to meet a target spec on size or weight.

 

There is no such "tradeoff" involved. How much weight/size could a soldered 8GB DIMM - as opposed to a 4GB one - possibly account for.

They also removed the FHD option - which was present on T440/p - from T450.

We gave you back the buttons, now we must take something back.

Colour me cynical, because I am...at least when it comes to Lenovo.

 

Likewise. Well said.

 

Your guess is as good as mine. There has to be a reason Lenovo does this. My feeling would be it saves Lenovo some money somehow, which I have no idea what that would be, and when you make as many notebooks as Lenovo, every little bit helps. For most buyers cost is much more important than performance. For every post here lamenting the lack of a 16GB memory option, there's many more asking how to get the best price. While I don't deny there is a small percentage of users who want 16GB of memory and maybe a quad core in a small package, but unfortunately, you're not a big enough slice of the pie to move the market. For most users a notebook built six or seven years ago can take care of their needs.

Like I said, if you can build a better notebook than Lenovo, do it, and the world will beat a path to your doorstep.

 

The T440 did not have a FHD option. http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf Interestingly enough, the T440 used 4 GB soldered RAM and 1 DIMM instead of 2 DIMMs like the T450. The T440 also had 2 USB slots to the T450's 3. The T450 appears to be an improvement in every way.

As for the T450s, there are two separate questions:
1. Why does it use soldered RAM and 1 DIMM instead of 2 DIMMs?
This is probably because of the marginal amount of space it saves. It's much easier for them to use soldered RAM than figure out how to get 2 DIMMs into the dimensions they want.

2. Why does it not offer a 8 GB soldered option?
Each soldered option requires them to have a different system board. The number of people who want more than 4 GB but are satisfied with 8 GB (X1, TPY, Helix) is almost certainly much higher than the number of people who want more than 12 GB but are satisfied with 16 GB. They wouldn't get nearly the same return on the second set of T450s system board compared to X1, TPY, and Helix boards.

 

You need to understand that not all models are listed in the tabook. They never were, even in the IBM days.

And you base this statement on what empirical data exactly?

 

First, I do not rely on the model list. There is a specifications list before the model list, giving the possible configurations.

Second, find a model of a T440 with the FHD option, since you are so keen on "empirical data". If your response is "prove it does not exist", then:

Prove that I am wrong.

But I need not rely on that demand. The most common configuration for the T440p and T450p on the outlet is 4 GB. After that, it is a simple exercise of logic: The base configuration is 4 GB. Since the X1, TPY, and Helix do not have user upgradable RAM, anyone who needs more than the base amount of RAM must upgrade at purchase. The T440s and T450s. A user need not upgrade the soldered RAM capacity unless he needs more than 12 GB--20 GB with UEFI modifications.

 

As mentioned before, the T440 never had the FHD option. Neither the topseller models nor in any special configuration. Only T440p and T440s. T440 maxed out at 1600x900, just like the T450 is.

I agree that the differentation between T450 and T450s is stupid - T450s is the premium model, in all ways, but with less RAM. Lenovo should just fuse both models into one, which may happen with Skylake (I hope so). For T440 and T440s, it was clearer - T440s was more premium in every way.

Related picture of the T440s (with the integrated RAM visible):

As mentioned before, just some mm of room are missing, so its impossible to squeeze a second RAM slot in there without changing the whole design - T450 has these mm of room. There is room of course for more soldered RAM...

 

Lenovo does build models per customer request if you're buying enough of them with parts that are not CTO options or listed in the tabook. They give them their own model number, which is not listed in the tabook. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some FHD T440 floating around. This is why sometimes when you find an older model for sale, you can't find the specs on Lenovo's site or it says it's based on another model, though they're probably rare birds.

 

That's a fallacy: Customers have a right to complain without having to get into the computer business, especially when competing ultrabooks of the same size don't suffer from the same unfortunate single channel 12 GB limitation:

• EliteBook 840 G2: 13.35 x 9.33 x 0.83 in
• Latitude 14 7000: 13.2 x 9.1 x 0.8 in
• ThinkPad T450s: 13.03 x 8.90 x 0.83 in

The priority on a "premium" machine like the T450s is performance, not cost, which is compromised by single channel memory operation at 12 GB, so by conflating the T450s with the T450, you're effectively suggesting Lenovo has taken the s-series down market, which is what we're complaining about.

As for the market demand for 16 GB in a premium machine even apart from the performance impact, it must be greater than you assume, since competing premium machines offer that capability.

Quad core is a red herring, another fallacy.

Last but not least, your "most users" are not the target market for premium machines.

 

Those amongst us who have both owned and worked on systems that "never existed" according to Lenovo are fully aware that ThinkPad configurations have always been - to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld - a "known unknown". For those who have little or no experience of that nature, it's an "unknown unknown".

This is the exact reason why I'm always extremely hesitant to remove *any* configuration-related info from ThinkWiki - even if it directly opposes everything that I know - when editing...

 

I don't recall saying complaints, though a little annoying(1st world problems), were not allowed. All I was attempting to do was theorize as to why Lenovo did what they did based on my long history with the brand. You can rant and rave all you want, but I don't see it changing much. The power you have in your relationship with Lenovo is to buy something else until they get the message.

Again, most T450s will be purchased by large institutional buyers like schools, corporations, government, etc, in the 1,000s. They probably don't give a lick about whether whether the T450s can only have 12GB of memory, and will argue tooth and nail over a $25 unit cost increase, so if Lenovo can save a little bit by soldering the memory, they can lower the cost and make their biggest customers happy.

 

Then you should've known to not claim that the T450 does not have a FHD option until it's been confirmed that the T450 does not have a FHD option.

There are two possibilities:
1. Thinkpads have configurations that are not published: You cannot claim that the T450 lacks a compatible configuration until the lack thereof has been confirmed.

2. Thinkpads do not have configurations that are not published: The T440 does not have a FHD option.

 

No, there's only one: I'm done playing hide & seek with Lenovo apologists, and am therefore out of this thread.

Have fun with whichever ThinkPad you end up buying.

 

Honestly, who cares?

 

Any idea when the T450p will be released? They've had the T440p on sale for quite some time now.

 

You are welcome to your opinion, but not to unwarranted assumptions and disparaging style. I doubt you have more insight than I do on the volume makeup of Ts-series orders, and any company that considers critical feedback "annoying" is headed for trouble.

I'm directly involved in purchase decisions on tens of thousands of premium notebook computers annually, where total cost of ownership, including the impact on productivity, are what matter, not small price differences. We do care about maximum memory just as we care about maximum performance, and I know for a fact that we are far from alone. We had been buying ThinkPad computers since the legendary 600, but not since the Tx20 series. In other words, we did buy something else, at a higher price, big time.

In many ways the Tx50 series is a welcome return to ThinkPad form, suggesting Lenovo has been listening, but not in all ways, like the unfortunate decision to solder only 4 GB of memory on the T450s. We will nonetheless evaluate it, along with competing machines from other vendors.

 

I think you should assume there won't be a T450p.

 

Is that likely to be the case? Why wouldn't they release a T450p? I ask because that is the model I am waiting on.

 

1. T450p hasn't been mentioned.
2. T440p still listed in current Product Specifications Reference.
3. Broadwell won't completely replace full range of Haswell CPUs.

 

I'll take any tone I like, thank you very much. Without knowing anything about me, you've concluded my assumptions are unwarranted? Seems a bit of a reach. I'm not disparaging anyone. For the the third time, I'm only offering up my opinion as to why Lenovo did what they did. I'm not saying it's good or bad. Buy any notebook you like. I couldn't really care less.

Good for you.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're complaining to the wrong person and Lenovo doesn't spend any time here anyway. You might as well be talking to the wall. I think you'll make more headway with your sales rep.

Prove it.

 

I'm confident the T450p will eventually show up. At least I am hopeful since the FHD IPS screen option isn't a choice for the T450.

As for the bickering, why not go ahead and lock this thread? Seems like it is time.