Current review --with a T42?

IBM's ThinkPad T42 LCD: A Blast from the Past - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

It's amazing how many things were done right six years ago --and in some cases (regardless of manufacturer) how some things have gotten worse rather than improving as time has gone on.

 

I don't know that it's a matter of right and wrong, but rather the balance between price and ubiquity has tipped more in favor of ubiquity.

 

Point taken.

To me, strong hinges and a good quality display are pretty big though, as is keyboard quality.

We just received twenty ThinkPad T42s as a donation at work. Despite being six years old, the hinges don't have a hint of play --not one of them. The keyboards are still better than the brand-new keyboards of anything I could take off the shelf at a local Best Buy. All of the Trackpoints still work. And the displays are beautiful. All after six years of use.

 

The T4x machines keyboards were a particularly good example of ThinkPad keyboards. I don't know that many would stand up.

The newer ThinkPads I've seen have been pretty solid. I guess it's a matter of time before we can judge them. It may be that the ones you received were well cared for and had good luck. I've seen abused ThinkPads that hadn't held up particularly well.

They must have been the IPS T42s. None of the 14" nor 15" XGA T4x screens were all that great as I recall. Anyone who want a gorgeous laptop screen has a chance to go and buy one with the HPs 8540w and 8740w, but at $3k, I don't see HP selling many of them.

 

"I don't know that it's a matter of right and wrong, but rather the balance between price and ubiquity has tipped more in favor of ubiquity."

I for one am not looking for balance at all. I'm looking for a good computer and hope Lenovo and the whole computer industry remembers that.

Renee


"To me, strong hinges and a good quality display are pretty big though, as is keyboard quality."

Lonewolf also.....

Renee

 

I think the problem you'll run into is there's not enough of you to move the market, which has shifted to lower prices and more ubiquity. The HPs 8540w and 8740w await you if you decide that's what you want. I still think today's ThinkPads are still very well built. There are some concessions to the market like 16:9 and no IPS, but they're still very good compared to the market, my opinion of course.

 

Zaz,

Let's say I wanted to purchase a new machine, equivalent mechanically and quality wise to a t61p. I don't think a thinkpad is made that matches the qualities of that machine.

Renee


"I think the problem you'll run into is there's not enough of you to move the market, which has shifted to lower prices and more ubiquity."

You see, there's something really wrong with a system that caters to the "great unwashed".

We used to have software that only professional people could use. Now we have "easy to use software" for none intellectuals and there is downward mobility in prices.

I wonder why?

Renee

 

I know for a fact that enterprises that buy laptops from Lenovo, and I'm talking on the scale of 50K units or more a year, are forcing down quality by demanding lower price points from Lenovo. The ThinkPad X100e is an example of something that came about because a very large company wanted a very cheap computer to outfit some of their workforce with. You might think that a large company would want to give their employees the best tools to do the best work, but in reality IT hardware is mostly seen as a cost of business and the J&Js, IBMs, Exxons and P&Gs of the world would rather have to pay $1,000 and not $2,500 to provide an employee with a laptop. And that's why we'll never see IPS screens in mainstream laptops again. Many small businesses are the same, and that's why you see all these SB focused laptops that are around $800 (think Lenovo Edge, Dell Vostro). Saving on IT hardware and cutting costs is also why we'll see more and more businesses move away from buying expensive servers to cloud computing and virtualization, but that actually makes sense.

 

Andrew,

I have never seen an explanation of the cloud. Perhaps you could explain it. Actually I've looked.

Secondly, the villian is capitalism. Lower prices etc is a capitalistic goal.

Before you jump to conclusions, I am not a socialist or communist it's just that I am opposed to profit.

Renee

 

Big Companies Adopting Cloud Computing Quicker than Predicted - Barrons.com

It's a business article, but covers the technology somewhat. As an example, this forum now runs on a virtual server(s) and not a dedicated one, they made the switch in November to combat the limits of a dedicated server and overheard expense of that. I'm talking mostly about companies shifting to the use of VMWare technology as opposed to buying a server for every need.

 

Andrew,

Why should non-computer people determine what is available to me?

Thank you for the article on the cloud. It another way to keep the cost down. I wouldn't have used it anyway.

Renee

 

Because they are more numerous in number and thus more attractive as a target market then outright computer geeks. Just like owning books use to a something of a privilege couple of hundred years ago, and something only mid-upper class could contemplate of purchasing. Nowdays normal paperback books are something every person can afford and read.

 

Well I think we've strayed significantly off course from the original T42 discussion, but suffice to say, it is a shame that the production process for IPS is more expensive and therefore not chosen by today's laptop manufacturers because their profit margins are razor thin, only about 3 - 5% per laptop sold, so they have to choose cheap components to stay profitable. Compare that to selling pizza where you have 50% or so profit margin. If you're starting a business, I recommend making pizza over starting a laptop company as it's a race to zero profit in the PC industry until some consolidation occurs.

Apple on the other hand has fatter profit margins because they create a high-quality, well designed product and more importantly have created a status symbol around their brand that people are willing to pay more for. It's heartening that Apple is using IPS displays in the iPhone and iPad and marketing it as a "Retina display", our best hope is they put the same screen in a MacBook one day and create more awareness about high quality IPS screens so that maybe demand for such a screen also comes about in the PC industry again.

 

As Andrew have said, Apple have a fat margin on their products due to the following reasons.

1) They create a marketing hype around the product, thus they can push up the retail price of their products. Owning Apple products is much about status symbol as it is about the actual usage, you will see lot of people whom enjoy conspicuous consumption also purchase Apple products. So from that Apple is seen in the same light as haute couture brand like Gucci, Prada, LV, etc.

2) Apple has a very tight vertical integration in the production/manufacturing system, and the fact that most Apple Macbook/Pro are offered with minimal amount of CTO configuration helps Apple to mass produce their products. It also gives Apple the necessary bargaining power with the parts manufacturer to drive down their parts pricing.

Additionally, Apple also produces phones, ipods, ipads, etc, which means those company that can win one order, usually also become the parts supplier for the other mass marketed Apple products. So most electronic manufacturers clamor for Apple orders, even if they have to sacrifice profit margin, since to them Apple is a relatively predictable customer and a steady income source.

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IPS LCD can be had, provided the laptop companies are willing to make bulk orders and pay the extra money for it, since these panels can be diverted from LCD plant that manufactures TV panels.

 

Both you and Andrew are correct, Lead_org,

But I think it's tragic that successful manipulation of the the market is rewarded and product merit is not.

Ho-hum....

Renee

 

that is because buyers are not fully rational with their decision making process and not all information are freely available on hand to the consumers (well unless you start reading a lot of reports, reviews, etc). Marketing people in many organisation know this very well and use it against the consumers.